Apple Facing Potential Suspension of Italian Sales Amid Warranty Concerns

[marksman]

Europe must be dumb. Apple offers a much more useful one year warranty than anyone else's two year warranty. This absurd.

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I think Apple should call their bluff and just pull out of Italy, including closing all of the iTunes, app and book stores.

I rather suspect it wouldn't be long before there was a new set of regulators overseeing that section of the Italian government.

Italy is the electronics and media capital of the world.

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Apple is getting in trouble because its executives can't read. The law.

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How is that better than following the law like any other company and actually making a benefit to the consumer?

I gaurantee you Apple's one year warranty is better than almost anyone else's two year warranty.

All this means is Apple will create a much less beneficial two year warranty for Europe. Apple has one of the best warranty programs and services in the world. Good job screwing that up Europe.

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Saying something twice does not make it more true. It is actually an italian interpretation of an EU directive. Apple is not in trouble in all EU countries, only ones that are looking to shake down Apple for money. EU countries are not required to enforce all of those directives in the same way.

I think you are also a bit confused about the directive. The directive refers to the "retailer". The retailer is required to supply a two year warranty, not the manufacturer. Apple can simply raise their prices in EU countries demanding two year warranties and withdrawing the offer for "applecare" or offer an additional 3rd year warranty under the "applecare" moniker.

Yeah people don't seem to get that this is only bad news for Italian consumers. Apple can create a simplified warranty plan in Italy that does not include the benefits of AppleCare. Perhaps if you have a problem with a device it gets sent to apple for six weeks for repairs.

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How is a two year warranty raising prices for "everyone"?

I don't have a problem with paying for extra warranty as long as the price is right. I did that when I purchased my Powerbook G4 and it came in handy because I needed the screen replaced twice. But for a $2000+ Apple product an extra year would be nice. Then just as your two years is about to end you can purchase another two years. I could go with that.

Heck fyi, my $20 coffee pot comes with a two year warranty. I know that's a very different product and service but I thought is was worth mentioning.

The problem is a government mandated warranty may not carry the superior AppleCare service with it. Italians should punch their government in the nads.

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Ahhhh...were did I suggest anything remotely like that? It's all made in China anyway...my point was, that a lot of people here on MacRumors make it sound like it's a good thing to have less warranty, because American companies have them brainwashed or whatever...I gladly buy a product from a company that gives me a long warranty...that just shows that they are confident in their owns product...

Oh and please...Apple products are made in China as well...

So you would rather have four years of a limited pain in the butt warranty or three years of a nearly all encompassing world class warranty like apple care?

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I'm tired of people discussing the wrong issue whenever this topic comes up.

The EU doesn't simply mandate "two years of warranty" that is equivalent to AppleCare. EU warranty only applies to defects that already existed at the time of sale. And after 6 months, the customer has to prove that the defect existed back then. The effective warranty (i.e. the one 99% of people get to use) is 6 months.

Also, the warranty has to provided by the seller, not the manufacturer.

Yeah people don't get it. Apple already provides one year of premium warranty with its products. They are not necessarily going to just extend that to two. Instead Italians will get the same crappy two year warranty every company offers and they can buy three years of premium apple care support on top of it. All this does is turn one year of a premium warranty service into two years of worthless warranty service.

 

[ixodes]

Apple is so used to calling all the shots, that to comply with another countries rules / laws is horribly painful for them. This ought to be interesting.

 

[Daveoc64]

Europe must be dumb. Apple offers a much more useful one year warranty than anyone else's two year warranty. This absurd.

I don't see how paying for an out of warranty repair could be seen as "better" than having to wait a few days for a repair.

If you really felt that disadvantaged, you could buy a reasonable phone to use in the downtime and still save money compared to an Apple replacement.

Nokia:

19 months after I bought the phone (2007), SIM card reader not working
Nokia sent me a box via UPS, including return postage - next day delivery both ways.
The phone came back within 4 days, fully repaired (not just replaced) - I didn't pay a penny

Apple:

14 months after I got the phone
I'm sorry, but your home button doesn't work anymore and we can't repair or replace that, so you have to pay £120 for a re-manufactured phone

The Nokia phone still works!

 

[macingman]

Requiring 2 year warranties is stupid. It just raises prices for everyone. Let people choose if they want to pay for that extra 2 years of warranty instead of forcing them.

Just because you think it's stupid doesn't mean it is.

Apple operates internationally because of that they have to respect each countries laws apple are not immune they are a business. I have no idea why when apple gets in trouble for breaking laws all the fanboys rush the it's aid.

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Oh and BTW apples warranty isn't that "superior". Dell once sent a technician to my home within 12 hours of me calling then where the laptop was REPAIRED and not REPLACED in my own home. And this was the basic warranty offered. If I have a problem with an apple product I have to drive for 30 mins to speak to a "genius" which is rude, has terrible social skills and knows hardly anything to PERHAPS get my product REPLACED therefore losing all my info and needing to restore from a backup which is more hassle then it's worth to even get the product replaced.

 

[Daveoc64]

Oh and BTW apples warranty isn't that "superior". Dell once sent a technician to my home within 12 hours of me calling then where the laptop was REPAIRED and not REPLACED in my own home. And this was the basic warranty offered. If I have a problem with an apple product I have to drive for 30 mins to speak to a "genius" which is rude, has terrible social skills and knows hardly anything to PERHAPS get my product REPLACED therefore losing all my info and needing to restore from a backup which is more hassle then it's worth to even get the product replaced.

I forgot my Laptop experience.

I had a similar experience with both Dell and Apple.

Having a professional that's able to disassemble the laptop, fix the motherboard and put it together again on my dining room table is just so much better than the "Genius" bar.

My 2004 Dell Laptop (the one that was fixed in 2006) is still working fine.

My 2007 MacBook has a bulging battery.

 

[charlituna]

It's good that they (the Italian regulators) are bringing this up because this is something many EU customers aren't aware of and end up unnecessarily buying Apple Care..

on the contrary. Apple Care offers customers something that isn't covered in said laws -- repairs for anything defective at any time during the coverage period regardless of whether the defect was present at time of purchase and can be proven as such by the customer as required by law, and regardless of where the item was purchased so long as the seller is authorized by Apple to do so. And on computers for a period of 12 months beyond what is required by said law.

And since we aren't at said stores watching every sale we can't say that they aren't telling customers about the law and what they don't get under it versus what they do with Apple Care

 

[gpzjock]

Corporate America still thinks other countries laws are advisory only.

I'm a bit saddened that Corporate America still believes that the laws and governances of other countries are not to be given anything more than lip service, after all what do us Europeans know about laws and civilised society?
The EU has punished Micro$oft for indiscretions and monopoly management previously, iTunes has fallen foul of the same accusations in France when the AAC file format it sold only worked on iPods (or at least claimed to).
Now Apple continue to avoid clear and honest advertising to up sell Applecare in a country where they know damn fine consumers have considerably more rights than in the Wild West of the consumer frontier they call home.
If I came to America and insisted driving my car on the wrong side of the road because that's what I do back home in the UK you would be just as justified in stopping me.
John Lewis in the UK have offered free 2 year warranty cover on Macbook Pro sales as an incentive to buy one from them rather than anybody else, despite the UK only having a 1 year mandatory manufacturer's warranty. Now that is using your head to up sell a product.

Apple made $8.81 billion in European revenue last quarter, I don't see them taking their ball home just yet.

 

[Konrad]

There we go again. Anything to increase profits, the ass like convoluted small print written by greedy Dick. There are fewer men among the geeks everyday. It is as simple as respecting others.

As markets, warranties, cost go, German cars are less expensive in US, historically have much better at no extra cost warranties in America versus the one year coverage in most EU markets.

Regardless of apple origins it has sadly become today a dick company. Whether it is Iceland, the republic of Congo, the moon, where local societies elected certain laws and you are a guest peddler, just obey them.

 

[biallystock]

Is there any wonder why Italy's economy is in the *******? Toilet? Crapper?

Umm, you're in Arizona and criticising Italy's economy?

There has been some debate over whether America is actually solvent.

If China ever decides to pull the immense amount of reserves it holds in the States, the debate will be over.

 

[kevinof]

You dont get it. I can buy a phone from Apple here (direct) in Ireland. There may be nothing wrong with it but in say 18 months from now it may fail for some reason. The fault doesn't have to be there originally and I don't have to prove ANYTHING.

Apple must fix or replace the phone. End of story.

on the contrary. Apple Care offers customers something that isn't covered in said laws -- repairs for anything defective at any time during the coverage period regardless of whether the defect was present at time of purchase and can be proven as such by the customer as required by law, and regardless of where the item was purchased so long as the seller is authorized by Apple to do so. And on computers for a period of 12 months beyond what is required by said law.

And since we aren't at said stores watching every sale we can't say that they aren't telling customers about the law and what they don't get under it versus what they do with Apple Care

 

[7709876]

Dell and all the others charge more for beyond 2 years basic support, why shouldnt apple?

I think the law should be applied in the same way.

It isn't about support though, it is about the warranty protection. I don't have a problem with Apple charging for extended support. I bought Applecare for this very reason as a switcher from Windows.

I don't think companies like Apple OR Dell should be charging people for warranty protection for a product from 12-24 months. Any computer should be built to last more than 12 months. If there is a hardware failure after 16 months for example then that indicates a substandard piece of hardware and as such the manufacturers responsibility to deal with it.

 

[iStudentUK]

If I had a penny every time this argument came up...

Your statement is simply NOT TRUE! and this is why:

US APPLE STORE
Retina MacBook Pro: $2,799.00 (high end model)

German APPLE STORE
Retina MacBook Pro: $2,954.95 ex.vat 19% (high end model) -- at today's exchange rate from (www.xe.com)

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The price difference is $155.95


I would do the UK Apple Store too, but I'm not sure my heart can take it...

Germany and the UK are obviously in the EU, therefore Apple has to provide its employees in these countries with proper benefits like high minimum wages, 6 weeks min paid holiday, paid sick leave, maternity leave, paternity leave etc- things they either don't get or are watered down in the US. On top of that consumers har better rights in the US- this 'warranty' for one, distance selling laws etc. I am NOT saying that is a bad thing, in fact for all the benefits European consumers and employees get compared to US counterparts I think and extra ~5% after VAT is a bargain, rather there is good reason for higher prices.

 

[7709876]

on the contrary. Apple Care offers customers something that isn't covered in said laws -- repairs for anything defective at any time during the coverage period regardless of whether the defect was present at time of purchase and can be proven as such by the customer as required by law, and regardless of where the item was purchased so long as the seller is authorized by Apple to do so. And on computers for a period of 12 months beyond what is required by said law.

And since we aren't at said stores watching every sale we can't say that they aren't telling customers about the law and what they don't get under it versus what they do with Apple Care

In the EU, goods are not just covered for faults present at the time of purchase. Goods must also be durable and last a reasonable period of time. The length of time they should last is relative to how much was paid for them. If you bought an egg cup that cracked after 4 years of use then that isn't unreasonable.

There is a minimum period of cover of 2 years across the EU. Some countries have more than this - up to 6 years in the UK.

 

[Oletros]

In the EU, goods are not just covered for faults present at the time of purchase. Goods must also be durable and last a reasonable period of time. The length of time they should last is relative to how much was paid for them. If you bought an egg cup that cracked after 4 years of use then that isn't unreasonable.

There is a minimum period of cover of 2 years across the EU. Some countries have more than this - up to 6 years in the UK.

No, this is not an EU directive, is an UK law, EU only says that the guarantee is two years an it is independent from the good price

 

[joshuakarjala]

In Denmark - the issue is furthermore, that they don't actually respect the EU directive when you have a problem.

If you contact Apple or any of their resellers, outside the 1year standard Apple coverage - they immediately ask if you have AppleCare, and otherwise refuse to fix the problem without charge.

Eg. battery in MBP goes completely dead after 14 months suddenly. Not just less capacity - NON FUNCTIONAL. First I both call Apple and the Reseller. They both claim that since I'm outside AppleCare coverage they won't fix it.

1. I refer to the law which states a 2 year warranty on all parts of the product.
2. They ignore this, and say that they don't cover replacement of batteries - as this is seen as a naturally decaying part of the product.
3. I highlight the fact, that I'm not complaining that my battery doesn't last the full 4-5 hours. But that it doesn't work at all after 14 months. And it was a sudden incident - going from a status of about 80% to not working in an instant.
4. Same bla bla response
5. I mention to Apple that I actually have an extended AppleCare (I bought because I was taking the MBP to the US on exchange, and wanted the Worldwide coverage).
6. I immediately get an Apple repair number and get the battery exchanged within a few days - no charge

TLDR: It's not only about how they advertise AppleCare. They actively refuse to actually honor up to the local laws - and only honor AppleCare.

 

[SilenceBe]

So, I'm curious, do European companies push these extended warranties? Here in the US, we are hounded to buy them for just about everything but groceries.

Extended warranties mostly go for 5 years here in Belgium. But in reality they are just a scam. There are to much small sentences which gives them a lot of room to weasel out. I don't trust that kind of companies because everything is for maximizing their own profit, not for the greater good.

Really the minimal 2 year warranty is a blessing. It results in having products on the market which is better designed. Our markets don't get over flooded with crap because on the long run it cost the manufacturer more money. You don't need to buy expensive warranty plans that in practice doesn't get honored anyway because they always find a loophole.

In Great Brittain they even go further as (imo very logical) they even take in account what you can generally expect how long something should work without breaking. A 1000 pound laptop shouldn't break after 2 years for example.

That being said Apple has been in breach with the local law for years and we payed a premium on the prices even WITHOUT getting what the law mandates... . So the "higher prices are because longer warranty" doesn't fly. We only got the one year, while the law mandates 2 years. There are a lot of consumers who have payed a hefty price to fix their mac after a year, while by law it should be covered under warranty.

They also are aware of the local laws because when you put your foot down, making a complaint with the authorities or treating to sue, they backed down. But it always involved bringing up your blood pressure up.

 

[kmv2012]

I can't believe what I'm reading here...

First: This is European law NOT Italian.

Second: If you Americans are willing to pay so much money for gadgets that are only garrantied to run for...what?...90 days...go ahead...no wonder NOBODY except Americans purchase ****** American cars...

Third: The law actually states that in the first year of warranty the producer has to prove the user was handling it wrong, whilst the second year the user has to prove there was a material problem.

Fourth: I just purchased a new MacBook Air and decides against paying over 200€ for one additional year of warranty. What's the chance of a part failing in three year when it hasn't in the two years before? It's more like you have accidental damage or it get's stolen. I rather use the money to buy an insurance in that case.

Fifth: We have a lot of gadget that last decades...think Miele Washmachines...I actually expect them to hold out that long and Miele actually does give you their own 5 year warranty on it as many other manufactures do...Apple is cheeping out on everything to keep their high profit margin. They could easily give you a 5 year warranty as well, but why bother if you have sheeps like you fools you actually think THIS is the reason why Italian economy is bad.

Sixth: On that matter. It is actually a crisis of mostly banks here in Europe...and guess where it started: America...Sublime credits anyone? Just so that you guys can buy crappy houses and ****** car's that you really couldn't afford (including Apple products) the entire world economy has been screwed...So do us the favor and think before giving smart answers...

Seventh: Oh and Apple product are more expensive because of our VAT...we have 19% here in Germany...US has what?...0-10%?

Well said!! I just registered to make this comment. Unbelievable how many Americans know jack **** about what is going on in Europe.

 

[peterbaby]

It's incredible how such debates trigger EU-USA wars.

- Firstly, EU law says products should be guaranteed for 2 years. It is a European "directive" and as such, it has been translated into local law in all EU countries. So the debate "it is EU law" or it is Italian law is irrelevant: it is both.

- The fact that products need to be guaranteed for 2 years may well increase the overall price, but the EU (and even before this law, many countries in Europe) have decided that you can't sell crap and don't repair it after 12,1 months. This drives quality up, and forces companies to take responsibility.
It may not be the way the US has decided to go, but I don't see how this can't be a respectable choice: people and consumers are more important than companies in Europe, simply because citizens elect democratic governments, not companies.
Besides, 2 years is not a crazy thing, we're not talking 10 years for a laptop here!

- The whole issue here is about how the AppleCare guarantee is presented. No matter the small print, there is indeed some clear misleading advertising: the AppleCare packages show 2 "guarantee bars". One says "Standard guarantee" and stops at 1 year, the other one shows Apple Care and stops at 3.
The fact is, you cannot advertise A and provide B in the small print. The package is misleading in that it pretends to be adding 2 years of guarantee, whereas it only adds one extra year to the legal guarantee.

Bottom line: if you don't like EU law, don't move to the EU (many US commenters probably haven't even been to Canada anyway).
Don't mention the EU banking crisis, it just proves you have got not economic knowledge at all and aren't aware that the US are also in a very bad debt/bank situation.
Lastly, if you think the EU is such a poor continent, look at the facts and figures (life expectancy, human development index, purchasing power...). Overall in Western Europe, people live longer and happier than US citizens...which is pretty incompatible with redneck accusations of marxism-leninism.

Lastly, reflect on the fact that things are far from being perfect on either continents... and that this guarantee stuff is not worth launching a 3rd world war Read several newspapers, open new books, open up to the fascinating differences and similarities of both our western societies which aren't so bad, and smile!

 

[cooldaniel1991]

i live in Italy, NO ONE of you understood what happened and what Apple do. if you look on the internet and search for apple 1 year warranty, you will be redirected to hundreds or thousands of cases of products purchased in the Apple Store online or at the apple store (retail) where Apple does not want to repair the products and asked the people to buy Apple care to have repaired the product.


Italy's law say that your product till the LAST day of the second year like a " product of the same category buyed this day". the first year the producter must repair the product the second year the shop where you buyed it, in this case apple is both.

That's it. Apple want to be different as the other producters. And i don't know i many thousand people paid 69 euro or more for the macs for this Apple Care because the employer said it and in the website was written too ONLY 1 YEAR warranty and not 2 ( 1 year Apple and 1 the shop , 2 years apple in the case of apple online store and apple stores).

So who's ignorant now ? Apple or the Italians?

 

[Bezetos]

Well that's not free even if you feel entitled to it.

What do you mean it's not free? I'm expecting a product to be of high quality and last at least two years. I'm already paying for quality. If a device lasts me shorter than 2 years, it's not of high quality. Period.

 

[baryon]

Apple often fixes their products out of warranty. I had an iPod fixed more than once well beyond the one year. Just read another post this morning about a guy getting his battery replaced in a 17" MBP after warranty. (and that's a consumable, warranty shouldn't be as long, anyway) This is frequently how Apple treats its customers, and part of why so many are zealous about the company.

I tried getting my MacBook Pro fixed, which has a faulty discreet graphics card (quite a big deal since it requires replacing the whole motherboard). It also has a failed SuperDrive (won't burn anything) and one fan died and then came back to life a year later. My battery also started expanding, which they did replace after I told them that I'm afraid it would explode and cause harm (I knew it can't but who cares). These are all independent problems, and could not have been caused by me. They refused to fix anything, even though I came back to the Apple Store about 5 times and talked to 5 different people there, so I just gave up.

Only if you don't drive it. The miles are the real warranty. Mine said 10 years, didn't last 5. (the warranty, the car is still great)

I think Nissan offers 7 years of warranty, no matter what, and they're pretty cheap cars.

Cameras and HDDs do not usually have more than 1 year warranty. Not the consumer-level stuff. Not in the USA.

But this article is about Apple in Italy, not the US. Just because Apple is a US based company doesn't mean they get to do everything by US laws even in Europe. The point is that they have to offer more warranty in the EU because that's the law, if they want to sell their products here.

Though I think it would be fair to offer 2-3 years of warranty everywhere in the world. I mean why not? Is it really so hard to guarantee that the "most advanced computer in the world" (and has barely any moving parts) will work for more than a year? I think it's extremely absurd that you buy something this expensive and there's a very realistic chance that you'll have to buy it again a year later.

I think it should be as simple as this: if a product you buy should last 3 years, based on expected lifetime, then that's how much warranty there should be. You don't expect a car to last 1 year only, so you give more than 1 year of warranty. You expect a plastic spoon to last for only a few minutes, so there's no warranty. You expect your clothes to last a few months at least, depending on your usage inevitably, so you get about 6 months of warranty. Now I'm sure you expect a Nikon D300s DSLR or a MacBook Pro to last 3-4 years. The Nikon D300s I bought in the UK came with 3 years of warranty, and I think that's just normal. The MacBook Pro? Only one year. And they were priced about the same! The difference? The DSLR gets thrown around a lot more and has way more moving parts, so is much more prone to failure, yet it's the one that gets much more warranty and doesn't have any problems! The MacBook Pro, on the other hand, has not many moving parts yet the freaking soldering melted on the nVidia graphics card because it was that badly designed… It's stupid! It's like Apple knows that their computers won't last long and they expect you to buy a new one every year.

 

[sasasule]

In Netherlands is same story...Thing is that nobody in the shop will tell you honestly how really are...

Shop itself should provide 1year warranty

EU law adding on top of that 1 more year of warranty (if you don't tell this they will not tell you inside of the shop)

Apple care provides 3years of cover including repairing.

So at end you are paying only for 1 extra year not 3years how they state...

Sales people instead to explain properly they BS people by telling them hey you have 1year + 3years on apple care...if you put that by simple math it suppose to be 4years total...

It is just political wording used to make you confused

BY EU law every country in EU should have 1+1year of warranty but nobody will tell you that....

 

[Geekbabe]

I am a reasonably bright woman & I'd imagine that Italians browsing the Apple store are also reasonably bright. Having said that let me also say that I've read this entire thread and am confused.

It would appear to me that the Italian courts are holding Apple responsible for just this sort of confusion, Apple has a duty to spell out in clear simple language what warranty rights consumers have under Italian law & if they are offering AppleCare to also clearly spell out what advantages this purchase will give to a customer. Omitting that information or saying " click here" to lead a consumer to a PDF filled with legal speak in tiny print is misleading & could cause the average consumer to believe they need to buy AppleCare because without it their warranty coverage will be rather limited.

If companies wish to do business globally they must comply with the laws in each country, including whatever consumer protection laws are in place, why would anyone expect that Apple be exempt from this?

 

[Apoxie]

Bingo! It just means higher prices in the EU. Somebody has to pay for these warranties whether or not they are government-imposed. I say that Apple just raises the price by 10% across the board and gets really specific about what warranty comes with the product and what is included in AppleCare. The 10% hike in price should more than make up for the loss of AppleCare sales.

What european contries require, is for the producer to make a product that is guaranteed to work for atleast 2 years. It just means it has to meet a minimum quality standard. I find that wise.

And if you design your products with this in mind, the cost should not differ that much from a 1 year lifespan of products. Metals, plastics and so on easily last 2 years as standard.

PS: On the danish site they also write about 1 year warranty, which is illegal. All warranties in Denmark are 2 years by default and the producer cannot shorten this.

 

[Ciclismo]

The second is Applecare working globally, I know that if I was overseas and my MBP has a problem. I can simply walk into a apple store to have it fixed without worrying about getting receipts from overseas scanned sent to me just to prove the purchase date.

If they offer a 2 year for european customers, and they travel outside of europe, they dont get 2 years. The only way is to charge european customers with an extra year of Applecare overhead.

The 2 year warranty is only valid in the EU, not globally.

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The responsibility _is_ on the retailer. That's what the EU law says. Go to a store and buy a pair of shoes. Do you know who the manufacturer is? You don't. Do you know where the manufacturer is? You don't. Even if you do, what are your chances of getting a manufacturer somewhere in China or Brasil to replace your shoes if they are badly made? That's why the EU law says that the _retailer_ is responsible.

And for many, many sales, Apple is the retailer, either via the Apple on-line store, or via their Brick'n'Mortar stores.