Apple Facing Potential Suspension of Italian Sales Amid Warranty Concerns

[koruki]

There are a couple problems Apple face here. Applecare is great, it easily surpasses any other after sales service I've experienced with other products. They replace parts without question almost and there isnt that feeling of being probed left and right to try and make it my fault something stopped working.

The problem with this is there is a much higher cost to offer this level of service. Hence they can't just offer a two year apple care plan compared two a standard two year plan from other manufactures who Ive always had horrible experiences with.

The second is Applecare working globally, I know that if I was overseas and my MBP has a problem. I can simply walk into a apple store to have it fixed without worrying about getting receipts from overseas scanned sent to me just to prove the purchase date.

If they offer a 2 year for european customers, and they travel outside of europe, they dont get 2 years. The only way is to charge european customers with an extra year of Applecare overhead.

 

[blackburn]

In Portugal the same thing happens. And Apple complicates matters after the 1st year on warranty repairs (I had trouble getting my ipod classic replaced after the 1 year).

If we get 2 years of warranty in every product including those crappy products why would apple be different? We already pay way more for apples products. A frigging base 13inch mbp costs 1300 eur. That's why some of us import apples stuff instead of buying local, the difference doesn't compensate 1 year of extra warranty.

Just google search "iPhone 4 vodafone portugal garantia" and you get lots of people complaining that nobody honors the iPhone warranty, operator tosses to apple, apple tosses to operator and so on.

So Apple should be fined since all the other brands clearly state that you have 24 months of warranty according to the consumer law.

Edit: On the apple web site they toss the 2nd year warranty responsibility on the retailer maybe that's why they are in trouble.

 

[gnasher729]

I never get this legal mumbo-jumbo...

I'm moving to Italy in September, but I'm buying my laptop here in Canada (with apple care). Does this mean that Apple in Italy may not repair my laptop if I have issues?

Check the terms of AppleCare where you bought it. Most likely the cover you have is:

1. Cover through Apple's manufacturer's warranty of one year, valid world wide.
2. No cover whatsoever through EU laws, because you didn't buy in the EU.
3. Cover through AppleCare of three years, valid world wide.

Just google search "iPhone 4 vodafone portugal garantia" and you get lots of people complaining that nobody honors the iPhone warranty, operator tosses to apple, apple tosses to operator and so on.

So Apple should be fined since all the other brands clearly state that you have 24 months of warranty according to the consumer law.

Edit: On the apple web site they toss the 2nd year warranty responsibility on the retailer maybe that's why they are in trouble.

The responsibility _is_ on the retailer. That's what the EU law says. Go to a store and buy a pair of shoes. Do you know who the manufacturer is? You don't. Do you know where the manufacturer is? You don't. Even if you do, what are your chances of getting a manufacturer somewhere in China or Brasil to replace your shoes if they are badly made? That's why the EU law says that the _retailer_ is responsible.

If you bought an iPhone from a carrier, and the carrier says that Apple has to fix it, and Apple says the carrier is responsible, then according to EU law it is clear that Apple is right.

It seems you're the one who's confused here. Let's take it from the top. A) In EU law consumer has minimum of two year guarantee. B) Apple is only providing one year guarantee. C) This constitutes as breach of EU consumer protection laws hence the actions taken by consumer protection authorities in EU.

http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/shopping/shopping-abroad/guarantees/index_en.htm

The website that you quote is "consumer law for numpties". No useful information that you can extract from it because it is not clear in what it tries to say. Concerning your points, in A) you forget to mention exactly who is supposed to give a guarantee, in B) you forget to mention that Apple plays different roles, and therefore C) is not true.

While they're at it Apple should then leave whole EU region. Every single company operating in EU has to provide two year warranty.

Just checked on www.dell.co.uk. Checked out a laptop, and it says "1 yr Next Day In-Home Hardware Support [Included In Price]". The same for a £299 and for £2,249 laptop. Especially interesting since Dell only sells directly, so they are, in any case, the retailer.

Guess what www.dell.it says: "1 anno di supporto hardware on-site entro un giorno lavorativo & supporto software telefonico [Compreso nel prezzo]" Which I guess means one year warranty.

And www.dell.fr where according to Nuvi the manufacturer themselves is responsible for a two year warranty: "1 an de support matériel sur site le jour suivant [Inclus dans le prix]". Again, one year warranty.

 

[Nuvi]

Edit: On the apple web site they toss the 2nd year warranty responsibility on the retailer maybe that's why they are in trouble.

Apple is fully responsible for the two year guarantee only in France, Finland and Sweden (consumer can file complaint either with seller or manufacturer). In other EU countries they can toss the second year responsibility to the seller. However, almost every single major manufacturer provides direct two year warranty in EU. Using the seller as middle man creates additional costs for the manufacturer.

 

[applesith]

I personally would expect every product I buy to last at least two years.

If I were to pay extra that would be for insurance.

Well that's not free even if you feel entitled to it.

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I REALLY hope your stuff brakes after 13 months. I REALLY DO!

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If apple could get away with offering 90 days warranty they would.

In the UK for a £2000 laptop Apple could be forced to fix a defect up to 5 years after purchase. This is because the price of the item affects how long it should reasonably work for after purchase.

As long as you dont drop it or spill stuff on it then generally its impossible for apple to prove that you broke it. Especially if a SSD or CPU or GPU or Screen dies.

Yanks are just pissy because they have no protection

Why? Offering service and coverage for extended time costs money and there is no reason apple should just eat that cost.

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so you think people should pay extra so they can ensure they their kit doesnt break.... if you buy something (especially over £1000s worth of computer) it should work for atleast a couple of years.... you shouldnt have to pay extra to ensure this

Why stop at 2 years, why not 5 or 10? It all costs money and someone has to pay. 1 year warranty is very common.

 

[jennyp]

Silly German. It's called "You nailed it!"

Don't mix that up with "You nailed her!" which is the same as "You scewed her!" which is not the same as "You scewed it!" which is the opposite of "You nailed it!"

Silly American. "You hit the nail right on the head" is a perfectly written colloquialism in UK English meaning, "You got it exactly right."

 

[applesith]

Do you really think it is unreasonable to expect a computer costing maybe £2000 to last for more than 12 months?

Dell and all the others charge more for beyond 2 years basic support, why shouldnt apple?

 

[manu chao]

Unfortunately Apple is not providing two year guarantee in all EU countries. Yes, you get it if you call AppleCare and complain but guarantee certificate only states one year.

Of course they do, otherwise they would be in much more legal trouble. They are just very picky with the passus that the customer has to prove that the defect was present at the time of purchase.

 

[applesith]

I had to pay extra for extended warranty on my car and that was $35k+, so why should it just be free on a 2k machine?

Everyone wants stuff but few will actually pay. Entitlements

 

[Erwin-Br]

Apple with their one year warranty is basically telling you their expensive premium products will likely fail after one year. If they could, they'd offer no warranty at all, because who knows how many yellow screens they already had to replace for free, huh? They'd start their own Yellow Screen Protection Plan if they could

 

[Oletros]

Why stop at 2 years, why not 5 or 10? It all costs money and someone has to pay. 1 year warranty is very common.

Why one year? It cost money and someone has to pay

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I had to pay extra for extended warranty on my car and that was $35k+, so why should it just be free on a 2k machine?

Everyone wants stuff but few will actually pay. Entitlements

It is not free, do you think that the final price doesn't have it accounted in the EU?

 

[KnightWRX]

I had to pay extra for extended warranty on my car and that was $35k+, so why should it just be free on a 2k machine?

Everyone wants stuff but few will actually pay. Entitlements

Yeah, manufacturers should just be able to sell you anything and never bother to actually make it usable for the purpose for which it is sold.

I'm happy that our gouvernement mandates that corporations need to make sure you are getting your money's worth when you buy a product. It should be free of manufacturing defects and thus a manufacturer should be responsible for it for its usable lifetime as long as the defect was born of some kind of mistake/part used in manufacturing said product.

My 28k$ car came with a standard 5 year/100,000 km warranty, bumper to bumper coverage and with a 10 year/160,000 km powertrain warranty btw...

 

[jdbr]

This is a strange forum

This is a strange forum. Why are Americans so insecure that they have to write anti-Italian/European comments? What's the problem folks? Apple products are dependent on talent from other countries not just the US to produce their computers, after all it is a very talented Englishman that designs them. Other important parts are also designed in the UK and I'm sure other European countries.
So stop being so parochial and racist.
Apple is simply being asked to comply with the law in Italy. You would assume that any decent company would want to comply with the law of any country they trade in.
Simple really!

 

[Nuvi]

Of course they do, otherwise they would be in much more legal trouble. They are just very picky with the passus that the customer has to prove that the defect was present at the time of purchase.

Actually its easy to get the repairs done free of charge after the one year period. Just mention your consumer rights to AppleCare and its solved. If you don't, they seem to oblivious about any two year guarantees. Its somewhat funny that all of this is valid in every single EU country and Apple acknowledges it on their European sites but written documentation on products and AppleCare personnel seem to lack the right information.

 

[blackburn]

The responsibility _is_ on the retailer. That's what the EU law says. Go to a store and buy a pair of shoes. Do you know who the manufacturer is? You don't. Do you know where the manufacturer is? You don't. Even if you do, what are your chances of getting a manufacturer somewhere in China or Brasil to replace your shoes if they are badly made? That's why the EU law says that the _retailer_ is responsible.

If you bought an iPhone from a carrier, and the carrier says that Apple has to fix it, and Apple says the carrier is responsible, then according to EU law it is clear that Apple is right.

yeah right. Case 1: you go to an apple premium reseller that explicitly says that any warranty concerns after the 15 day window is not their problem and apples problem. Problem arrives you go to the fine idiots that sold your Mac and they print you a list of authorized apple service providers, so you just got the boot from the retailer (some do send the macs but they are rare like fnac). You go to one of those aasp that some don't even exist or accept apples hardware. Then you hop on to another one that finally accepts your Mac but warns you that since the 1 year is up some parts are not covered by warranty.

Case 2 (Samsung/hp and others): they will pick up the computer, and return it to your home without any cost. Or for the ones that won't pick up, you send it in and nobody complains about anything even if your on the last day of the warranty period.

In my experience apple assistance in Portugal is one of the worst in terms of simplicity. I've had problems with all other brands hp, Samsung, Sony and nobody ever posed any problem with the warranty. And guess what in the best case the retailer sends the product to the official repair company, or if in no brand items they give you a similar one or a refund (on really crappy no name products only though).

And I highly doubt that any pair of shoes have any kind of warranty, unless your talking about premium shoes.

Edit: I forgot about N*kia, those smartasses liked to try dodging your warranty if the problem was software (that didn't have any bug fix for it), swollen batteries (even during the 6 months of the battery warranty) or if the repair was too complicated, fortunately they are pretty much mia.

 

[SpiderDude]

Shame shame

And suddenly, I'm not so proud of being in the Apple community.
I'm a Machead. I defend OSX with my life (at least till Snow Leopard), iOS not so much because i don't own a iOS device.

But this.. This discussion is silly, bunch a teen fanboys criticizing the EU over something they know nothing about. Looks like Oletros is one of the few with good sense over here in this discussion. Look at my join date, been here way before that.

Also, I'm Portuguese (yes, it's a country in Europe), I've got a degree in Economics and I'm majoring in Finance, I'm not just talking out of nowhere.
Apple is using Europe as a playground for different profit tactics. (check the new MBP prices over here) 2450$ for the base 15 inch. That's a joke right?

No go back to being the civilized intelligent mob I'm used to and proud to be a part of.

 

[alfistas]

I find it VERY STRANGE that some people here dislike the idea of a 2 year warranty for their >2k computers...

...then again who am I to judge? Others like S&M or bondage

 

[Nuvi]

I find it VERY STRANGE that some people here dislike the idea of a 2 year warranty for their >2k computers...

Its more like some Americans are jealous because Europeans have "free" two year warranty. After one checks the Apple's prices in Europe you come to the sad realization that Europeans have already paid for that extra one year warranty.

 

[alfistas]

Its more like some Americans are jealous because Europeans have "free" two year warranty. After one checks the Apple's prices in Europe you come to the sad realization that Europeans have already paid for that extra one year warranty.

I always thought that US customers got a discount at the expense of pretty much everyone else. This seems like standard policy for technology products including Apple's.

Oh well... I suppose that's the price Europe has to pay for not investing enough in the computer industry.

Where is the European equivalent to Apple/Microsoft/Google??

 

[achiskon]

I think that Apple is rich enough to not be threatened financially by the 2 year warranty, something that all other hardware companies have been providing for years (at least in Europe). The right thing to do is to honor these laws, and if you ask me, when i pay 2000$ for a laptop i expect it to last more than a year.

I feel disgusted by the first comments i read here of some users supporting Apple's 1 year warranty and cursing Italy/EU for this regulation. What the hell people? We are all customers after all, fans or not! Stop supporting Apple at everything, sometimes it's not right!
I'd really like to see your faces with a fried logic board at 14 months after purchase date..

 

[gnasher729]

yeah right. Case 1: you go to an apple premium reseller that explicitly says that any warranty concerns after the 15 day window is not their problem and apples problem. Problem arrives you go to the fine idiots that sold your Mac and they print you a list of authorized apple service providers, so you just got the boot from the retailer (some do send the macs but they are rare like fnac). You go to one of those aasp that some don't even exist or accept apples hardware. Then you hop on to another one that finally accepts your Mac but warns you that since the 1 year is up some parts are not covered by warranty.

As I said (and as EU law says), the "fine idiots that sold your Mac" are responsible to get it fixed. Within the first six months they are responsible unless they can prove that the fault wasn't present when you received the item (in other words, if you broke it or someone else broke it). After that, they can require that you demonstrate the product was faulty when you received it. Anyway, in this situation they are breaking the law. The AASP isn't.

(Another advantage of AppleCare is of course that _if_ you have the bad luck of running into a retailer who refuses your rights, or who went bankrupt, AppleCare will cover you as well).

I always thought that US customers got a discount at the expense of pretty much everyone else. This seems like standard policy for technology products including Apple's.

Of course not. There are just too many people who don't realise that US prices exclude tax, while EU prices include sales tax.

And I highly doubt that any pair of shoes have any kind of warranty, unless your talking about premium shoes.

They don't have manufacturer's warranty, but they are covered by the same laws as an expensive computer. I have had a shoe shop replace my shoes (which turned out to be badly manufactured). I have had a shop replace cufflinks that broke after wearing them for a week, and they replaced them again when the next pair didn't last longer. What makes you think these items wouldn't be covered?

 

[theluggage]

I think that Apple is rich enough to not be threatened financially by the 2 year warranty,

The problem is likely not the cost of providing the required 2-year warranty itself, but the reduction in lucrative AppleCare sales as a result.

Extended warranties on electrical/electronic goods are big business, and are a license to print money because they cover devices over the 2nd-3rd years of their life when the failure rate is lowest.

There has been a lot of fuss about stores pushing extended warranties (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-16923295) - claiming that you'll be high and dry if the product goes wrong after 6 months/1 year is a common ploy.

 

[Ironduke]

Silly American. "You hit the nail right on the head" is a perfectly written colloquialism in UK English meaning, "You got it exactly right."

you nailed him jenny

 

[cgk.emu]

A 2 year warranty also helps weed out the planned obsolescence of some products.

I personally don't see how it does. It simply means they would have to repair a product under warranty...it has nothing to do with not introducing new products quickly.

 

[alfistas]

Of course not. There are just too many people who don't realise that US prices exclude tax, while EU prices include sales tax.

If I had a penny every time this argument came up...

Your statement is simply NOT TRUE! and this is why:

US APPLE STORE
Retina MacBook Pro: $2,799.00 (high end model)

German APPLE STORE
Retina MacBook Pro: $2,954.95 ex.vat 19% (high end model) -- at today's exchange rate from (www.xe.com)

-----------------------------------


The price difference is $155.95


I would do the UK Apple Store too, but I'm not sure my heart can take it...