Apple Factory Conditions

[intlplby]

someone earlier said that this is what life in china is like and that most are ok with it.... the former is true the latter is not.....

i live in china and there is a growing amount of discontent in this country......most workers are not ok with it.. they simply have no other options economically and more importantly they have no rights to unionize.....

if you saw how things are done here, you'd quickly realize that none of these workers would dare speak out for fear of being put in jail.... there isn't exactly due process....

my best friends with the son of a governer. he's told me that his dad has sent PLA to mow down factory uprisings with machine gun fire on many occasions....

according to the CCP's own statistics the number of uprisings and violent protests per year is growing at 10-20% a year... that is faster than the GDP......

if you think this sounds bad go educate yourself on the term LaoGai.... google it....... it's things like this that make you wonder why China enjoys MFN status

 

[Romanesq]

the communists

someone earlier said that this is what life in china is like and that most are ok with it.... the former is true the latter is not.....

i live in china and there is a growing amount of discontent in this country......most workers are not ok with it.. they simply have no other options economically and more importantly they have no rights to unionize.....

if you saw how things are done here, you'd quickly realize that none of these workers would dare speak out for fear of being put in jail.... there isn't exactly due process....

my best friends with the son of a governer. he's told me that his dad has sent PLA to mow down factory uprisings with machine gun fire on many occasions....

according to the CCP's own statistics the number of uprisings and violent protests per year is growing at 10-20% a year... that is faster than the GDP......

if you think this sounds bad go educate yourself on the term LaoGai.... google it....... it's things like this that make you wonder why China enjoys MFN status

Years back I made it a point to avoid buying products from China. It's now gotten to the point where it's practically impossible.

Steve Jobs has announced that a solution is now reached. Apple will agree to normalize work conditions by supporting the Democratic initiative in the Senate to equalize working conditions here in the US by keeping open borders and making North America a slave labor site to match up with China.

See, all better now.

(Thanks for the insights into the current situation in China. A show on PBS showed a little bit inside the society but the Communists don't allow too much and of course control every part of society including slave labor operations.)

 

[Digitalclips]

Say it ain't so Joe!

Just remember the British invented the Super Market check out counter newspaper, a.k.a. 'rags' and 'creative' journalism. You know ... "Mother gives birth to six inch green baby - first words were "Want to save money on your car insurance?". Britain is also famous for an anti Apple attitude dating back to the Apple ][. This just might be a tall story, and don't be surprised if Elvis turns out to be the night shift manager.

 

[datkins23]

Say what...

I think we got far worse problems then to worry about the price of labor in China. Americans want stuff as cheap as possible. End of story. Hmm. No for an important question. What's for breakfast?

 

[theviceofreason]

Just remember the British invented the Super Market check out counter newspaper, a.k.a. 'rags' and 'creative' journalism. You know ... "Mother gives birth to six inch green baby - first words were "Want to save money on your car insurance?". Britain is also famous for an anti Apple attitude dating back to the Apple ][. This just might be a tall story, and don't be surprised if Elvis turns out to be the night shift manager.

See post 133 on the first misconception. The Mail's a rag, but it's not the Daily Sport. And yes, you're right, Britain is feverishly anti-Apple. Forget stories about the royal family, the world cup or asylum seekers, hating Steve Jobs is right at the forefront of consumer consciousness here. It's the first thing an evil lying hack would think of on a slow news day.

 

[theviceofreason]

Wow. You sure read something in. I never said The Mail is liberal, I said I don't trust them. What I said in a different paragraph is that liberals don't want us to trade with China and that is a bad policy position. How you ever tied The Mail to liberalism in what I wrote will forever remain a mystery. Usually when you change paragraphs it means a new thought. Don't read stuff in. It leads to conspiracy theories. Anyway it's probably my mistake if you misunderstood. So now that's clarified.

Fair enough, my mistake. I took it from this line:

Therefore, ignore Mail on Sunday and just trade with China. Buy from Wal-Mart, buy from Apple. Stop being self righteous about Apple and China until you are perfect yourself. Then you can judge.

that you were connecting the two. But I see what you mean now.

Oh, and "forever remain a mystery"? Isn't that a bit breathlessly tabloidy?

 

[fitzg2md]

I too have lived there for over 4 years and have seen this first hand. I have seen a woman throw her baby daughter in a pond because she only wanted 1 child...a son...not a daughter who could not carry on the name etc. So believe me, I am not a victim of western propoganda. There are many things that they do and believe that I am impressed by. Im just saying...workers rights are not exactly one of them. But it WILL change as their economy changes.

And I certianly do not claim this viewpoint as strictly my own. I couldnt force myself to read all 160 posts before posting!

 

[Romanesq]

Even a rag can get it right...

Human Rights, you know it's just annoying when you are trying to have breakfast.

What do you think they have in mind for the American worker when they are trying to keep the border toothless?

As Mel Gibson famously said, "Slaves are made in such ways."

 

[TimUSCA]

There's one very important thing we're all forgetting here... this is a job that the Chinese are free to go whenever they feel like it. Here in the US, you can work your butt off for MANY hours at a fast food joint and not get paid enough to live on... this is the same thing. So you know what you do? Quit McDonald's, get an education, and get a better job. Listen, I don't like the fact that people have to work all those hours for $50/month either, but if they can quit and get a better job somewhere else, then they would... so Apple isn't a bad guy here. They're no worse than any of the other companies in China that do this, or Burger King in the US.

Bottom line: It's all relative.

 

[whatever]

Funny how it comes that I see none of the Apple shareholders complaining. What we see / hear here is basically 101 economics the hard way. Sorry for those US workers.

PS: Anyone actually knows if these workers are unhappy with what they make / the hours done for it ??

Alright, I'm an Apple shareholder and I think this is terrible. Terrible that everyone in this forum lives in a plastic bubble and don't get that must everything which is off-shored is done at a cheaper price and where do you think those savings come from!

My company, a mismanaged Dutch company, is forcing us to offshore (because some chump read it was a good thing) all of our Customer Support to India. When a fellow VP in the US discovered that it would cost $20,000 more a year to do this, he was told to make it happen! We appear to a be a US company, but we're not and we're cutting low paying US jobs just to appear to be "cool" (yes cool by out-shoring).

People aren't talking about how Apple backed out of India a couple of weeks ago are we! Off-shoring is a giant myth!

Having worked in China, I can tell you that these people are most likely very happy with their pay and also when Apple decided to use this company they did not cover how much the employees get paid. These people are not employees of Apple, but of the company that Apple hired to manufacture widgets! The fact that Apple cares is really a good thing!

I wish we lived in a perfect world, but we don't, but we can try to make it a better place.

Whatever

 

[GreekMac]

I disagree!There is no excuse to over labouring people..in most cases the employes simply don't have any other choice because there aren't any other jobs out there for them. For example I have a doctor friend who work at a packaging plant! Unfortunetly due to the worlds demand for for cool quality gadgets, someone out there is going to brake they're back and bleed there fingers..

New law one ipod per home!

 

[Fabio_gsilva]

Right... Just ask Amnesty International and Green Peace what they think of the labour situation in China is really like. I can give you a short cut, with 100 US dollars per month, you have just enough if you tighten your belt and eat barely to survive if you already have a room to stay in. Not to mention scarce opportunities for showers, bathroom breaks, and if you get sick, you are done for, good luck affording medication. Even worse is that these factories are built on top of what used to be farmer soil (most of them are in the suburbs), where people locally have sustained themselves for decades, who are all of a sudden in a survival crisis. The only way out is to work for the company who took over the land, it's all possible thanks to a bit of $$$ and a dictative government. The theory that we are doing the people there any good is just a one-man congratulatory pat on the back reach around. The so called "board" they get is just that - a board with fabric on it which if you are tired enough after 15 hours of work, you'll pass out on. Think of your bedroom, now cram 10 people in it in the heat of the summer, no wonder workers there want to break free as fast as they can.

ps. do a bit of search around the web, you can see in pictures what I mean.

First, you are not wrong.

I do live in Brazil, and I really know what is to live with U$ 100 per month or less... I see this everyday when I get the bus, the subway, or I walk through the city.

Everywhere you walk you see people begging for a change, you see young boys and girls in the streets, despites of the said "prosperity" of our city, of our country.

International Amnisty, Green Peace, Human Rights and everything love do debate and discuss the situation, BUT, unfortunately, I don't know not even heard about one, just one single person that had the life changed by this organism.

I said that the truth prevails because this is how it is!!! Wake up, get a plane to the third world and you be surprised by how much people would kill for a job that pay U$ 100 per month.

Nobody cares for anybody! Money is the big game today, and it will be until the end. Karl Marx said this almost 200 years ago.

Or the USA is not in a war in Iraq just for oil, just for mor power??? The almost 400 bilion that you spent in the war would suffice to solve every problem that Human Rights, Amnesty International, ONU, Green Peace and any other organization you think points out in the world today.

But, if you don't spent this huge amount in the war, what about the workers of the belic industries in the USA? Think about it.

I'm not against USA, I'm just debating over the facts that is in our face.

My opinion: threat people and workers like this is wrong. I try to convince people that this is wrong, but the truth lies in the eye of the seer.

P.S.:
Forgive me about english mistakes... I learned english alone and errors may occur.

 

[lord_flash]

Just remember the British invented the Super Market check out counter newspaper, a.k.a. 'rags' and 'creative' journalism. You know ... "Mother gives birth to six inch green baby - first words were "Want to save money on your car insurance?".

National Inquirer, anyone? Certainly British tabloids have a knack for sensationalising stories, but it's not the same as making them up. That's something you 'merikans can claim credit for. Also, so you know, the Mail is tabloid format - as are virtually all british newspapers these days, including the Times - but is targeted at midscale market. A fascious, but not wholly inaccurate, summary of the British press (courtesey fictional minister Jim Hacker):
- The Daily Mirror is read by people who think they run the country;
- The Guardian is read by people who think they ought to run the country;
- The Times is read by people who actually do run the country;
- The Daily Mail is read by the wives of the people who run the country;
- The Financial Times is read by people who own the country;
- The Morning Star is read by people who think the country ought to be run by another country;
- And the Daily Telegraph is read by people who think it is."

Britain is also famous for an anti Apple attitude dating back to the Apple ][. This just might be a tall story, and don't be surprised if Elvis turns out to be the night shift manager.

What? On what is this random comment based? Do you have any vidence, whasoever to support your claim? Apple get a similarly generous press in the UK as they do in the US. They've not sold that many because they're really expensive.

 

[ready2switch]

I didn't take time to read all of the responses, but what readers must remember is that this is not a big Apple plant. This is one of Apple's suppliers, an independent company that will be held responsible for their business practices by Apple via their agreement and by whatever standards are required for the country.

While I agree that workers should be paid a fair wage and that it would be wonderful if a US supplier could provide Apple with this service without too much of a cost difference, I don't understand why it is Apple's responsibility to pass on it's profits to anyone that has anything to do with the manufacturing of their products. I really don't see Apple as a "greedy" company, particularly when they use their profits to do exactly what we expect them to do, research and development of our next bigger (or smaller) and better toys.

Anyway, Apple paying that supplier more doesn't necessarily mean the workers will see the benefit of it. I think any recourse that would be effective in correcting the situation is in place via the supplier agreement Apple has with this company already.

 

[Leesure]

i've been to china, 50 to 150 bux goes a long way. And another thing, if you are concerned with the conditions at Apple's factories in China then you should be concerned with every factory in China cuz the conditions are the same in most of them, everything you see that says made in china was made by a laborer getting paid less that 100 bux a month

Just curious if the people making comments like this one were the same people RIPPING Nike just a few weeks ago.

 

[GreekMac]

Leesure

Yes we're all guilty of a crime...but there is nothing we can do but wait for it to back-fire...

 

[jwhitnah]

Apple Problem?

Move those factories to the US! $1000 isn't too much to pay for an iPod Nano!

Are we supposed to believe that these conditions are unique to iPod factories? The whole reason manufacturing is in China, is to save coin. This way I can afford to buy the iPod I "deserve."

 

[iAlan]

Firstly, is it true? I think we all have to remember that the media is not exactly know for it's truthfull no-spin approach to information dissemination. Although who knows, it could be true - and could be the standard practice in China. I will be honesat and say I don't know how much it costs to buy food clothe and provide shelter for yourself or a family in China, and I am sure a lot of other posters have about as much knowledge as i do, so i do not know if $50-100 is good or bad

I live in Japan - in Tokyo, one of the most expensive cities in the world. I have a friend in New York, also an expensive city and while I will not discuss my salary (or even know his!) I am sure that the cost of living dont make hte salary seem al that high after all - I know for a fact that my life would be vastly different if I were earning the exact same amount in my home town of Melbourne (Australia - the new Soccer powerhouse ). In fact I probably wouldn't earn anywhere near as much given the lower cost of living and comparative salaries and such.

My point, I want to know more before I jump to conclusions and before I start mouthing off over how Apple are corporate bastards screwing workers over. I hope they aren't but I am not going to jump to a conclusion one-way-or-the-other

Just to let you all know, it costs me around $22 to go to the movies (and I could be siting on the floor as they don't limit patrons to the number of seats in a theatre) a MacBook is about $150 more expensive for me in Japan vs USA (and conciderably higher still if I buy in Oz)and if I had a car I would have to pay at least $400 per month to park it - and I would have to walk 10-20 minutes to where it is parked as well (a friend of mine only pays $250 per month to park his car, but he has to take a train 9 stops (around 30 minutes) to get to where it is parked...so let's be sure what $50-100 is worth before we decide on this article...

<end rant>

 

[ppnkg]

I am not sure whether are I should be surprised to see that many are surpised to hear this kind of news. Well, what did you expect? That Apple moved its production lines in the far east for humanitarian reasons? Or to further the cause of free trade, global development and the like? Just like any other multinational, Apple moved there for the sake of PROFITS. Or does this gathering of intelligent people believe that morality and capitalism can coexist? To enjoy and appreciate a company's product (which happens to be superior to similar products) is quite a different story than believing the product was produced in a heaven-like factory (different than the near-by factories which produce the simlar but inferior products).

 

[ezekielrage_99]

I love how everyone here tries to feel sorry for the average Chinese worker and quips "I will happily pay more for an ipod if it means better treatment for the factory workers".. Give me a break, 90% of the time all of you complain about how expensive Apple products are.

That's the point I brought up earlier, consumers are only willing to pay a certain price for a product. The reality is consumers want the lowest possible price and the only way most multinational companies can do this is by sending the production to the country that can make the product for the lowest price.

The irony is that we want better conditions/pay/benefits for these workers but we do not want to pay more for the products and not buying the products in the first place as a part of a convoluted protest robs these workers of incomes they need.

 

[AppleDude]

Please don't represent my interests

For example, Enron focused on maximizing shareholder interest blindly, . . .

Guess again. Misrepresenting the organization's financial position is NEVER in the interest of the shareholder (while some may profit from the resulting short-term scandal, shareholders unaware of the scandal will suffer a corresponding loss in the future).

 

[ThomasJefferson]

Its called globalization people.

Businesses like Apple/Nike etc operate in these countries so they don't have to pay a minimum wage, health insurance, obey wages and hours laws, environmental protections ...

If you don't like it, don't buy it. Because they will all continue to do it, acting occasionally shocked when they are caught.

 

[lord_flash]

The reality is consumers want the lowest possible price and the only way most multinational companies can do this is by sending the production to the country that can make the product for the lowest price.

But, surely, the solution here is that the multination companies take a small hit on their own ludicrously high margins. We all know, as Mac users, that a Mac costs more to buy than an equivalent spec PC. A lot more. We all justify this in terms of product quality, getting iLife etc., but in reality they could sell iPods on a lower margin without any trouble. The iPod margins - even after R&D - are very high, and could be a lot less. Apple are a rich company, sitting on vast reserves, unlike many others. They are well placed to lead the way towards fairtrade, or at lease banning sweatshop conditions, if they choose to.

They choose not to. That they're not embarassed about partenering with Nike says a lot, and you can't imagine Bono and Steve seeing eye to eye on that either.

 

[sushi]

and if I had a car I would have to pay at least $400 per month to park it - and I would have to walk 10-20 minutes to where it is parked as well (a friend of mine only pays $250 per month to park his car, but he has to take a train 9 stops (around 30 minutes) to get to where it is parked...so let's be sure what $50-100 is worth before we decide on this article...

Agree with your points.

Reference the above, I have a friend who lives near Shibuya who was paying $300 per month for parking his Japanese mini van (For those not familiar with the vehicle, it is much smaller than a US made mini van. It's about the size of a Mini Cooper.). Regular car parking is $500.

About a year ago, everything doubled. So his parking went to $600 per month and regular parking to $1,000 per month.

Getting back to the subject at hand, wages and product cost are relative. DVD regions are an example. They are for marketing/sales. The same original DVD that might sell for $24 in the states would be $60 here in Japan and $2 in other countries.

Anyhow, let's see what happens to this situation before we condemn Apple or China or whomever.

 

[IJ Reilly]

If you want to find out what is really going on in China, watch this documentary. It's mainly about political freedom (of which the Chinese people have effectively none), but also covers the government-sanctioned depopulation of the rural areas to create a steady flow of exploitable factory workers. This is how the Chinese economy is growing so rapidly and keeping wages so low. The question is whether it's sustainable, economically or politically.