Apple Fights Proposed Right to Repair Legislation With Warnings of Consumer Harm

[fmillion]

The "safety" argument becomes more amusing when you consider the product is deliberately engineered to make it unsafe to repair it. Especially the battery. Older iPhones had a battery that wasn't glued in, so replacing it could be as easy as pulling off the back and swapping it. Now they started gluing in a component that is heat sensitive. Older MacBooks allowed you to buy extra batteries and carry them with you; now even pro-grade laptops have glued batteries. The products are clearly engineered not to be repaired and instead to be replaced - because that mode is what makes Apple the most profit.

I could be mixing up some facts here, but I also seem to recall Apple losing Energy Star or EPEAT or something certificatio because of the glued in batteries...and then miraculously gaining that certification again without making any changes.

I've become numb to all of Apple's environmental stuff. The absolute best way to reduce e-waste is to make products last longer. You don't even have to give up profits - make the products upgradable and repairable. Citing reasons that Apple themselves manufactured to make repairing harder as why you shouldn't be allowed to repair just makes it even more clear that environmentalism at Apple is largely a PR stunt.

 

[Blackwell]

Imagine how awful it would be if the only place you could get your car repaired-- or even just an oil change-- was at the dealership you bought it from. This is why people should have the right to repair a hardware item they bought and own via the repair shop of their choice.

Automobile dealers have a way of scaring people about non-dealer services, trying to be like Apple today. Apple leads the way. My favorite repairable Mac was the Macintosh IIci (or cx), one screw and everything inside can be removed. Also the Power Macintosh AGP with the drop side.

 

[mpuk]

I posted plenty of facts. I can see why Apple doesn't want just anyone screwing around in their hardware. Quality of repair is a huge issue.

Yes, but why is Apple lying to customers?

Please watch this 10-minute CBC News investigation (Canadian Broadcasting Corporation) for an eye opener. Do you think Apple’s business practices have become as abusive as the CBC has shown?

For me, this is another intriguing indicator of Apple's devolving culture.

 

[rezenclowd3]

Once you propose safety legislation, the government has to pass it because "if it saves one life!"

Palm to forehead. Let people protect themselves...or not.

 

[Zwhaler]

Makes me want to keep using stuff that’s repairable- and works...

No danger of flexgate here- and the best laptop keyboard ever made.

Nice! I didn't know it went to 5GB ram. How does it run Mojave vs El Capitan?

 

[SnowFox20]

I'm not sure you can get parts directly from Samsung, but they have authorized dealers who will sell you OEM parts. Here's an example:

https://www.samsungparts.com/Default.aspx

Completely understand. Thanks for your response.

 

[DanBig]

I think the bigger problem is in ethical disposal of serviced parts, especially batteries.

Right-to-repair will also only increase price, since Apple won’t receive serviced parts back to recycle.

It’s a lose-lose. Apple certainly wouldn’t lower any prices on any replacement parts, and would likely charge a premium for toolkits and materials such as adhesives, fresh screws, and literature, not to mention voiding the warranty due to ESD safety issues and unknown variables that would affect manufacturer warrantability.

The only thing that would be a positive impact would be that folks would not have to walk into an Apple store, should they live far from one.

Lets clarify things here a bit ... Apple does not make that large an effort to recycle bad parts. Logic boards and uppercase's is about it. Sundries and broken displays are not recycled at the corporate level. Returned devices & batteries are recycled locally or with their recycle partners who do the very minimum in disassembly of the device to recover re-usable parts, or valuable glass & metals.

Its not a lose - lose proposition and it won't raise prices! Thats just Apple FUD.

In fact the customer will gain from a competitive environment. Could you imagine needing a drug that is only available from one drug company and they raised their prices by 1000% What are you going to do then?

 

[Defthand]

Rossman is an idiot, every single video he has posted for the last few months has an anti Apple I hate Apple title, and he moans about Apple, he even supported Linus and his dumb friend who broke their iMac Pro by taking it apart!
If you want to really really really really hate Spoke with a vengeance then watch Rossmans channel.. I haven’t seen any of his videos for months purely because I like Apple as much as they annoy me. Rossman just hates them.

You're right that Rossman has become vehemently agitated with Apple, but he is no idiot. He's been illustrating Apple's decreasing integrity for years. He was (unsuccessfully) sued by Apple for obtaining genuine parts for customer repairs. And Apple's relentless and unjustified efforts to prevent Rossman and his like from offering their services is a tiring battle.

If you haven't been personally compromised by Apple's occassional but significant missteps, and don't see any risks with tech's roadmap in general... fine. Continue playing with your toys, but don't depend on others, like Rossman, to fight for you when those toys—and the company's policies—are flawed.

 

[Blaze4G]

There are tons of BMW repairs you can't do yourself. Like anything with the ECU, programming, injector coding, etc. Even the battery needs registration and programming from dealer equipment. I own 2 BMWs.

Again, try to stop being so emotional and consider why this is the case. Apple doesn't want consumers to be unsatisfied with the quality of repair, hurt themselves, etc. Tiny electronics are different than changing tires on a car.

obviously there is going to be things that are too technical for consumers...such as replacing a resistor on an iPhone board. I mean, thanks for stating the obvious?

You can code the new battery yourself or have indy shops code it for a fraction of the cost. BMW is not trying to do what Apple is doing and only have themselves repair their products. So again, your example is useless.

 

[imageWIS]

I have Apple Care. Last week I dropped my XS and cracked the screen. In less than 2 hours I was out of an Apple Store with the screen replaced. Cost me $30 + tax.

The only people who care about this are the very tiny percentage of DIYers out there.

Utter lie. The new Mac Mini has the ability to have the RAM user replaced. However, Apple made it a whole gray area as to covering under warranty any issues with the computer if the user replaces the RAM. They did this as to dissuade people from upgrading the RAM, as upgrading Mac Mini's was standard end consumer MO in the previous generations.

 

[poe diddley]

I posted plenty of facts. I can see why Apple doesn't want just anyone screwing around in their hardware. Quality of repair is a huge issue.

then you literally know absolutely nothing about repair or the quality and technical prowess of their "repair techs". if you did any research you'd find they do very little actual repair beyond screens or batteries (the easiest possible repairs since you are so obviously unaware), and they fully intend on just replacing any devices they can't fix that easily with "new" devices which are, in all actuality, just refurbs using the parts from devices they've gotten back from the field.
other than making it obvious you just want apple stock to do really good for your portfolio, you literally presented zero facts.

 

[imageWIS]

It's a great point---Apple doesn't want any competition from independent repair shops. I think a lot of it is also because Apple doesn't trust indy shops to do the job right with the right parts and think it will somehow diminish its brand. Pretty arrogant.

But it's Apple that's lying about repairs, they state that X is broken, when it clearly isn't and it's a much simpler repair. Louis Rossmann has already demonstrably proven this.

[doublepost=1556724608][/doublepost]

Nice! I didn't know it went to 5GB ram. How does it run Mojave vs El Capitan?

One stick of 4GB and one of 1GB?

 

[Awesom-0]

Yes, but we also live in a very different "entitled" and "victim-minded" world. If a mobile phone catches fire and burns down a house, it's automatically Apple's fault, even if it isn't. The same doesn't happen with car self-repairs. It's never the manufacturer's fault in those cases.

I side with Apple for devices like iPhones. But for their computers, I think they need to work harder towards a modular design, where you either add modules to upgrade a computer, rather than replacing it outright, or be able to replace modules to add capacity, etc. For iPhones, I do think they should cave and add an SD Card slot, or similar technology.

If Apple is so concerned about bad replacement parts they could sell the parts to you or offer a list of quality parts to get from other places.

Especially when they want to promote being green.

 

[DanBig]

I’m opposed to right to repair, but using consumer harm from batteries is a poor excuse. There are many other ways consumers can be harmed by this. Im not sure why Apple would focus on this example (unless it’s one of many, and it was picked because it makes Apple look bad).

What do you think is so dangerous in a phone? The only thing that could harm you is a leaking battery from a puncture.

Even Apple has encountered new batteries failing within peoples pockets. So its so dangerous Apple shouldn't fix your phone either right?

The real issue is proper education on how to do the job. If done correctly its not dangerous! The more you hide the knowledge the more dangerous it is! Likewise not having good quality parts also puts people at risk.

While I respect your desire not to fix your own gear there are a lot of others that want to and you still have both Apple and independent repair outfits who can help you.

 

[SSDGUY]

So you think business would give you a repairable devices on their own? LOL

Depends on their product focus. A company could just as well market the fact that their devices are user-repairable as a selling point. Heck, it could even be hyped as "green technology." But no, we need government to tell companies how it should be done — to protect our poor helpless souls.

 

[Baymowe335]

So you just assume everyone is as ignorant and unqualified as you are?

Pretty much, yeah...I believe I know what the masses are capable of in terms of electronic repair. You seen how people put on screen protectors?
[doublepost=1556725726][/doublepost]

But it's Apple that's lying about repairs, they state that X is broken, when it clearly isn't and it's a much simpler repair. Louis Rossmann has already demonstrably proven this.

then you literally know absolutely nothing about repair or the quality and technical prowess of their "repair techs". if you did any research you'd find they do very little actual repair beyond screens or batteries (the easiest possible repairs since you are so obviously unaware), and they fully intend on just replacing any devices they can't fix that easily with "new" devices which are, in all actuality, just refurbs using the parts from devices they've gotten back from the field.
other than making it obvious you just want apple stock to do really good for your portfolio, you literally presented zero facts.

It doesn't matter. Whatever Apple does has the backing of the entire Apple company. If random guy does it, there is no backing.
[doublepost=1556725890][/doublepost]

obviously there is going to be things that are too technical for consumers...such as replacing a resistor on an iPhone board. I mean, thanks for stating the obvious?

You can code the new battery yourself or have indy shops code it for a fraction of the cost. BMW is not trying to do what Apple is doing and only have themselves repair their products. So again, your example is useless.

I can't code the battery myself, actually. You need specialized equipment and software to do so. Other indy shops will say they know how to do it, but they don't. Do you actually own BMWs? VERY hard to find competent shops to work on BMWs other than dealers. I have one, but they came from the dealer.

 

[poe diddley]

Pretty much, yeah...I believe I know what the masses are capable of in terms of electronic repair. You seen how people put on screen protectors?
[doublepost=1556725726][/doublepost]
So owning stocks makes you greedy? It makes me know the company better than you. Right to repair is not a black and white concept, particularly with tiny electronics with volatile lithium batteries. iPhones have standards and Apple doesn't want those being compromised.
[doublepost=1556725773][/doublepost]
It doesn't matter. Whatever Apple does has the backing of the entire Apple company. If random guy does it, there is no backing.

not true at all. "random guy" which typically is an actual third party repair shop/company always offers a warranty or they wouldn't have any customers. you've gotten yourself in wayyyyy deeper into doubling down on your ignorant apple stock fanboy statements than i think you were prepared for. you don't repair and that's just fine. but dont sit there and try to make the case for apple to be the exclusive repair choice for all their devices everywhere without any facts. you know nothing about the masses or the repair industry obviously.

 

[laptech]

Some people seem to have the misconception that Apple should be designing products that make it easy for the consumer to repair. errr no they don't. They can design their products how ever they want, just as long as it meets safety standards. If you do not like how a company handles it's repair process, there are many other companies you can use.

That is an argument i see a lot in this forum, 'if you do not like it, you are not forced to purchase, just vote with your wallet and go elsewhere', but when it comes to the issue of repair, the opposite is used 'Apple must change, it's not right they can do this'.

If you do not like the repair policy a company has, vote with your wallet and go elsewhere.

 

[Baymowe335]

not true at all. "random guy" which typically is an actual third party repair shop/company always offers a warranty or they wouldn't have any customers. you've gotten yourself in wayyyyy deeper into doubling down on your ignorant apple stock fanboy statements than i think you were prepared for. you don't repair and that's just fine. but dont sit there and try to make the case for apple to be the exclusive repair choice for all their devices everywhere without any facts. you know nothing about the masses or the repair industry obviously.

I'm fully aware of the repair industry and I'm fine with it. I don't think Apple should be required to offer tools and parts to these 3rd parties.

 

[Glockworkorange]

If Apple is so concerned about bad replacement parts they could sell the parts to you or offer a list of quality parts to get from other places.

Especially when they want to promote being green.

Yes they could do that--and they'd charge you and then say you're a "certified shop."
It's my understanding that's what they're doing now.

 

[ajguckian]

While I highly doubt there a millions of end users fixing their devices, there is no reason repair shops should have issues getting parts to fix the machines.

 

[Glockworkorange]

But it's Apple that's lying about repairs, they state that X is broken, when it clearly isn't and it's a much simpler repair. Louis Rossmann has already demonstrably proven this.
[doublepost=1556724411][/doublepost]

Well, then why are you here? No one wants to argue your ignorant brainfarts solely based on your money grubbing greed.
[doublepost=1556724608][/doublepost]

One stick of 4GB and one of 1GB?

I don't think it's fair or appropriate to attack and characterize a member as having "money grubbing greed" solely because he is an Apple investor. You don't know anything about the guy. People get suspended for this type of thing.

 

[charlituna]

I say apple should stop fighting this. They should just give up and let these laws pass. With some caveats. including
1. They are not required to design anything with ‘customer repair availability’ in mind. As long as they aren’t proven to be designing solely to screw over customers who do their own repairs.
2. They are not required to sell parts or tools in stores (order it online via apple care) and are only required to sell those parts and tools that can’t be found elsewhere (t6 drivers are hardly unique)
3. They are not required to do any service, warranty or out, for something a customer or third party shop touched if they can prove that said persons damaged the device in question doing whatever they did. You damage your logic board doing your own battery replacement that’s your mess to fix not Apple.
4. The laws are very clear that Apple is not liable for any damage or injury caused by a device that has had non Apple service unless the party in question can prove that said service was not the cause of the issue (battery catches fire cause the 3rd party tech accidentally left a loose screw in the phone that punctured the battery isn’t Apple’s fault, apple sold battery part that pulls a Samsung after being correctly installed would be)
[doublepost=1556727091][/doublepost]

While I highly doubt there a millions of end users fixing their devices, there is no reason repair shops should have issues getting parts to fix the machines.

Apple wants to vet the companies to make sure they are doing things correctly. Which I say is fine in theory. But apparently they charge an arm and a leg for the training and tests and then to continue to have access. And if that’s true then that should change.

 

[Blaze4G]

Pretty much, yeah...I believe I know what the masses are capable of in terms of electronic repair. You seen how people put on screen protectors?
[doublepost=1556725726][/doublepost]
So owning stocks makes you greedy? It makes me know the company better than you. Right to repair is not a black and white concept, particularly with tiny electronics with volatile lithium batteries. iPhones have standards and Apple doesn't want those being compromised.
[doublepost=1556725773][/doublepost]
It doesn't matter. Whatever Apple does has the backing of the entire Apple company. If random guy does it, there is no backing.
[doublepost=1556725890][/doublepost]
I can't code the battery myself, actually. You need specialized equipment and software to do so. Other indy shops will say they know how to do it, but they don't. Do you actually own BMWs? VERY hard to find competent shops to work on BMWs other than dealers. I have one, but they came from the dealer.

You can code the battery yourself as well as many indy shops. Clearly you're ignorant to repairs so maybe you should stick to your stocks expertise.

All it takes in an app and OBDII to USB cable. Which is a fraction of the cost of what BMW charges and the next time around will be free since you already have what you need. I understand this is beyond your capabilities though.

Your service advisor probably told you it's really technical and you believed him / her. Don't let dealers rob you...they told you to replace your blinker fluid as well didn't they?

Still waiting on your reply what should apple consumers who live in a country with no apple store or approved 3rd party do to repair their device? Why are you avoiding this question?

 

[Heineken]

I never brought up safety in any of my posts. I brought up security. And many security related items in your vehicle will require a dealer visit.

When you are not informed you can’t objectively decide what is best for you financially or otherwise and that’s the issue here. Industry comes up with boohoo “argument” and people who don’t know any better line up. Sad.
[doublepost=1556727405][/doublepost]

I say apple should stop fighting this. They should just give up and let these laws pass. With some caveats. including
1. They are not required to design anything with ‘customer repair availability’ in mind. As long as they aren’t proven to be designing solely to screw over customers who do their own repairs.
2. They are not required to sell parts or tools in stores (order it online via apple care) and are only required to sell those parts and tools that can’t be found elsewhere (t6 drivers are hardly unique)
3. They are not required to do any service, warranty or out, for something a customer or third party shop touched if they can prove that said persons damaged the device in question doing whatever they did. You damage your logic board doing your own battery replacement that’s your mess to fix not Apple.
4. The laws are very clear that Apple is not liable for any damage or injury caused by a device that has had non Apple service unless the party in question can prove that said service was not the cause of the issue (battery catches fire cause the 3rd party tech accidentally left a loose screw in the phone that punctured the battery isn’t Apple’s fault, apple sold battery part that pulls a Samsung after being correctly installed would be)
[doublepost=1556727091][/doublepost]

Apple wants to vet the companies to make sure they are doing things correctly. Which I say is fine in theory. But apparently they charge an arm and a leg for the training and tests and then to continue to have access. And if that’s true then that should change.

Apple authorised service training is a joke. It’s not a repair job.