Apple Fights Proposed Right to Repair Legislation With Warnings of Consumer Harm

[BXRich]

Haven't gone through all 12 pages of comments and this has probably been said but the cost of going to Apple to do anything is out of control - $600 to upgrade to 32gb of ram on the Mini...$600!! the entire device is only $1000. I can get the same amount of ram from a reputable vendor for under $200 and install it myself the idea of having to pay 3x+ just to have apple do it is absurd.

 

[Baymowe335]

You can code the battery yourself as well as many indy shops. Clearly you're ignorant to repairs so maybe you should stick to your stocks expertise.

All it takes in an app and OBDII to USB cable. Which is a fraction of the cost of what BMW charges and the next time around will be free since you already have what you need. I understand this is beyond your capabilities though.

Your service advisor probably told you it's really technical and you believed him / her. Don't let dealers rob you...they told you to replace your blinker fluid as well didn't they?

You're assuming too much. First of all, the battery registration probably was a bad example, because it is one of the easier processes. There ARE, however, many repair shops stating they do battery registration and do not do it properly or at all. Yes, there are apps like Carly and even others to do your own coding, but you can absolutely mess things up. Go over to the BMW forums and search coding fails. People have bricked their motors from trying to code injectors, as an example.

I actually have an indy BMW repair shop, not a dealer. One of my BMWs is tuned and has aftermarket parts, so the dealer would have problems even working on it. I did a battery and registration for about half the dealer price. The dealer at BMW IS evil, totally agree. I replaced my own spark plugs/coil packs on the N54, so I can do my own work and assure you am not ignorant on the subject.

What you're comparing on the iPhone and BMW are probably battery repairs. Anything more complex needs to be done by someone competent....I fully disagree that Apple should be required to provide these parts and tools without being able to fully control the process.

 

[petalino]

Yeah, no thanks.

I'll keep on walking into the Apple Store and getting a brand new phone if I have issues. I don't need my $1300 device being hastily put back together by an untrained mouthbreather using knock-off parts.

Don't get me wrong, I love wrenching on my Jeep myself. But I don't have to worry about ruining it's water fording capabilities just by popping the hood.

That is your well deserved choice. But what about Apple users who do want and in many case are capable of fixing their devices themselves or letting it being fixed by an untrained mouthbreather. It is our choice, and let us have it.

 

[Khedron]

There are tons of BMW repairs you can't do yourself.

Tons? But not all, right?

So if we head over to BMWRumors.com we'll find you arguing that BMW should have the legal right to decide your 4 year warranty is void if you change a flat tyre yourself instead of having your car towed to an official BMW garage?

 

[poe diddley]

I'm fully aware of the repair industry and I'm fine with it. I don't think Apple should be required to offer tools and parts to these 3rd parties.

actually the first smart thing you've said. at no point in the past have they ever offered parts or tools to third parties, so why would anyone care if they did now? the 3rd party apple repair industry is very very strong, and is so in spite of apple offering no parts or tools. nobody really cares about that, but what they DO care about, and they reason why everyone is giving you so much flak is that we dont want to LOSE the right to repair these devices. Apple and John Deere are among several companies that want to take away that right thru legislation. did your so called research tell you that?

 

[EchoplexSE]

Almost every iPhone I’ve seen “repaired” for a cracked screen at one of these shops always looks like garbage afterwards (screen quality) either the screen was peeling or the colors and quality of the display were way off and awful to look at.

I’m not saying we should not have the right to repair, just not 100% sure why anyone would take it there if the Apple store is an option

 

[Awesom-0]

The auto industry is not a good comparison. It’s far easier to repair a vehicle than it is to repair a very small electronics device built to exacting tolerances.

Even then, there are lots of things where you NEED to visit a dealer, even with a very healthy aftermarket source for parts. Imagine if independent repair shops could set the mileage on a cluster or create remote keys for vehicles. Abuse would be rampant. As such, vehicle manufacturers still keep certain things tightly locked down - usually anything related to security.



Does that include support docs that deal with security related components (like TouchID or FaceID). Does that include Apples special tools/software that configure these components?

Automotive manufacturers are allowed to keep security related stuff to themselves, so Apple will be allowed to do the same. And with so much in an iPhone related to security there won’t be many things shops could fix anyway (screens, batteries, buttons/switches and speakers/microphones).

But let’s get real here. Third party shops don’t want to buy Apple parts. If they’re using only official Apple parts then they might as well just apply to be an Apple Authorized Service Centre.

What they want is Apple documentation and procedures on repairing Apple devices, but they want to source their own versions (clones) of Apple components. This way they can make more money by using cheaper components but still rely on Apple to tell them how to repair devices.

As a former master tech for Nissan GM, and iszuzu you can set mileage on a majority of vehicles even though factory repair manuals don't say it.

Also why when you transfer a title you state the mileage is correct. It's a felony by itself and not to mention fraud.

In older vehicles it was as simple as hooking a drill to the speedo cable and run it in reverse. Others you just took the odometer apart and set mileage how you want.

If mileage is suspect it's easy to get caught by wear on tons of different parts.

People keep using these car analogies and locked down systems. Some of them are open source even on the computer controls and the world has not ended.

Far more dangerous doing a brake job compared to replacing parts in electronics. One can literally kill you, your entire family, and others.

I will easily will recommend fixing your electronics over your vehicle. Far easier and safer if possible.

Was also a field and mechanical engineer for a major tech company and did contract work for many others.

Apple fighting right to repair is ridiculous and the same for anyone who defends them. It just seems like a bunch of paid shills on here or worried about their stock.

People say it's just 1% of people who want to be able to repair their things. When the 99% of others know that 1% who can easily replace a component that will save time and money.

I usually do this for free to people in need. From vehicles, appliances, computers, phones, and just about anything else.
[doublepost=1556729261][/doublepost]

There are tons of BMW repairs you can't do yourself. Like anything with the ECU, programming, injector coding, etc. Even the battery needs registration and programming from dealer equipment. I own 2 BMWs.

Again, try to stop being so emotional and consider why this is the case. Apple doesn't want consumers to be unsatisfied with the quality of repair, hurt themselves, etc. Tiny electronics are different than changing tires on a car.

Just because BMW doesn't trust you and wants to overcharge you doesn't make it right.

Many other vehicles you can change all of that. Sorry you bought a BMW twice.

 

[Baymowe335]

Tons? But not all, right?

So if we head over to BMWRumors.com we'll find you arguing that BMW should have the legal right to decide your 4 year warranty is void if you change a flat tyre yourself instead of having your car towed to an official BMW garage?

I think cars are different than tiny electronics.
[doublepost=1556729389][/doublepost]

As a former master tech for Nissan GM, and iszuzu you can set mileage on a majority of vehicles even though factory repair manuals don't say it.

Also why when you transfer a title you state the mileage is correct. It's a felony by itself and not to mention fraud.

In older vehicles it was as simple as hooking a drill to the speedo cable and run it in reverse. Others you just took the odometer apart and set mileage how you want.

If mileage is suspect it's easy to get caught by wear on tons of different parts.

People keep using these car analogies and locked down systems. Some of them are open source even on the computer controls and the world has not ended.

Far more dangerous doing a brake job compared to replacing parts in electronics. One can literally kill you, your entire family, and others.

I will easily will recommend fixing your electronics over your vehicle. Far easier and safer if possible.

Was also a field and mechanical engineer for a major tech company and did contract work for many others.

Apple fighting right to repair is ridiculous and the same for anyone who defends them. It just seems like a bunch of paid shills on here or worried about their stock.

People say it's just 1% of people who want to be able to repair their things. When the 99% of others know that 1% who can easily replace a component that will save time and money.

I usually do this for free to people in need. From vehicles, appliances, computers, phones, and just about anything else.
[doublepost=1556729261][/doublepost]
Just because BMW doesn't trust you and wants to overcharge you doesn't make it right.

Many other vehicles you can change all of that. Sorry you bought a BMW twice.

Great cars. I’d buy a third one.

 

[Khedron]

I think cars are different than tiny electronics.

So why did you bring them up?

 

[Baymowe335]

You can code the battery yourself as well as many indy shops. Clearly you're ignorant to repairs so maybe you should stick to your stocks expertise.

All it takes in an app and OBDII to USB cable. Which is a fraction of the cost of what BMW charges and the next time around will be free since you already have what you need. I understand this is beyond your capabilities though.

Your service advisor probably told you it's really technical and you believed him / her. Don't let dealers rob you...they told you to replace your blinker fluid as well didn't they?

Still waiting on your reply what should apple consumers who live in a country with no apple store or approved 3rd party do to repair their device? Why are you avoiding this question?

You said you can code the battery yourself and then listed the special equipment you needed to do so. It’s like saying you can change your own water pump, but you need a lift.

I’m totally aware you can code the battery yourself. But you need cables, software, and some knowledge it’s necessary. That’s not a simple battery swap like the old days, yet many people think it is. Bad for BMW and the brand.

The battery was given as an example that even something simple was made difficult by BMW, for whatever reasons. The repair shops touting battery replacements largely ignore the registration process and people get mad at BMW because their batteries prematurely fail. BMW should have some stand against this.

 

[Blaze4G]

You're assuming too much. First of all, the battery registration probably was a bad example, because it is one of the easier processes. There ARE, however, many repair shops stating they do battery registration and do not do it properly or at all. Yes, there are apps like Carly and even others to do your own coding, but you can absolutely mess things up. Go over to the BMW forums and search coding fails. People have bricked their motors from trying to code injectors, as an example.

I actually have an indy BMW repair shop, not a dealer. One of my BMWs is tuned and has aftermarket parts, so the dealer would have problems even working on it. I did a battery and registration for about half the dealer price. The dealer at BMW IS evil, totally agree. I replaced my own spark plugs/coil packs on the N54, so I can do my own work and assure you am not ignorant on the subject.

What you're comparing on the iPhone and BMW are probably battery repairs. Anything more complex needs to be done by someone competent....I fully disagree that Apple should be required to provide these parts and tools without being able to fully control the process.

So you're agreeing battery repairs are not too complex right? If so, you need to remove the LCD on the iphone xs / max to replace the battery, so then you must agree replacing the lcd isnt too complex either right? These 2 parts are the 2 most commonly replaced.

You replace your own spark plugs and coil packs?! Be careful, you might hurt yourself. I am sure BMW does not want you doing your own repairs to keep the quality of repairs high. Since its modded and can't take it to the dealer, leave it to the indy shop to do it. Wouldn't want you messing anything up.

Still waiting on your reply what should apple consumers who live in a country with no apple store or approved 3rd party do to repair their device? Why are you avoiding this question?

 

[Baymowe335]

So you're agreeing battery repairs are not too complex right? If so, you need to remove the LCD on the iphone xs / max to replace the battery, so then you must agree replacing the lcd isnt too complex either right? These 2 parts are the 2 most commonly replaced.

You replace your own spark plugs and coil packs?! Be careful, you might hurt yourself. I am sure BMW does not want you doing your own repairs to keep the quality of repairs high. Since its modded and can't take it to the dealer, leave it to the indy shop to do it. Wouldn't want you messing anything up.

Still waiting on your reply what should apple consumers who live in a country with no apple store or approved 3rd party do to repair their device? Why are you avoiding this question?

No, it’s not complex. I told you, the reason I brought it up is because there is more to it than the average person might think and BMW needs to ensure a PROPER repair is done, not just a repair.

To answer the last question, Apple would need an option for these people. What is their response today? Ship it? I’m not against authorized repair shops bro. I’m against forcing Apple to provide parts and tools, and in essence be a champion for right to repair. They shouldn’t be forced to do that or bless repairs by incompetent people. They can authorize certain repair shops and assist with parts, sure...but they control it and continue to build how they want.

But be forced to provide parts, tools, and use standardized fasteners and no glue? That’s all nonsense.

 

[Blaze4G]

You said you can code the battery yourself and then listed the special equipment you needed to do so. It’s like saying you can change your own water pump, but you need a lift.

The battery was given as an example that even something simple was made difficult by BMW, for whatever reasons. The repair shops touting battery replacements largely ignore the registration process and people get mad at BMW because their batteries prematurely fail. BMW should have some stand against this.

lmao a next useless example. A lift is thousands of dollars...the app is what 40-50 dollars? After buying all the tools its a fraction of the cost.

 

[Baymowe335]

lmao a next useless example. A lift is thousands of dollars...the app is what 40-50 dollars? After buying all the tools its a fraction of the cost.

Yeah..for one repair you need every 6 years in a battery? Again, you’re missing the point. The quality of repair is the key and the knowledge of what needs to be done to maintain the standard is crucial.

 

[Heineken]

BMW is poorly designed and ownership price is ridiculous compared to some other brands.

 

[Altis]

Yeah..for one repair you need every 6 years in a battery? Again, you’re missing the point. The quality of repair is the key and the knowledge of what needs to be done to maintain the standard is crucial.

Gotta love when the shareholders post!
[doublepost=1556730514][/doublepost]

BMW is poorly designed and ownership price is ridiculous compared to some other brands.

Most people seem to just buy on name alone. Could slap a BMW badge on an Accord and the only way they'd notice would be that it didn't break so often.

 

[I7guy]

This is getting ridiculous. People have been repairing and maintaining their own cars for nearly a century. Crawling under a 1- to 2-ton hunk of steel and aluminum and having it come crashing down on you is a lot more dangerous than poking a hole in a LiIon or LiPo battery and having it put on a light and smoke show...

Sure, change the oil, add anti-freeze and change the windshield wipers. Even change a flat tire. The fact that cars do fall on people means the laws of averages will catch up and eventually there will be a fire from an li-ion battery.

I think people should be able to buy the parts, and if a device is consumer repaired the manufacturer is off the hook afterwards.

 

[Heineken]

Gotta love when the shareholders post!
[doublepost=1556730514][/doublepost]

Most people seem to just buy on name alone. Could slap a BMW badge on an Accord and the only way they'd notice would be that it didn't break so often.

true.

 

[fairuz]

Apple and everyone else is already told how they build their devices with the current laws that exist. That’s what laws sometimes do: force companies to do something for the common good, sometimes regardless of whether it helps a majority or a minority.

California, a large, tech savvy state, is the right choice for this discussion to happen.

Those are safety laws, different. We have the right to buy products without fear of them unpredictably causing harm. This repair law isn't for the common good. It's just a design decision, and it only affects the usefulness of products they make, not the environment or people's wellbeing or anything, so it's a perfect example of something you can just let competition solve.

BTW, these discussions on restricting tech usually happen in the EU, not in California. Part of why innovations don't come from there.

 

[Blaze4G]

Sure, change the oil, add anti-freeze and change the windshield wipers. Even change a flat tire. The fact that cars do fall on people means the laws of averages will catch up and eventually there will be a fire from an li-ion battery.

I think people should be able to buy the parts, and if a device is consumer repaired the manufacturer is off the hook afterwards.

Completely agree. If a consumer decides to repair and they mess it up then that's their problem. If a consumer goes under a car to repair it and it falls on them, I don't see the family sueing the manufacturer. Just like if a consumer messes up the battery in their phone and it catches fire.

 

[I7guy]

...
Most people seem to just buy on name alone. Could slap a BMW badge on an Accord and the only way they'd notice would be that it didn't break so often.

So you think most people don’t know the difference between an accord and let’s say 535 or m3. Or an accord and a 911? You may be right, or terribly off base. (And bmw is recommended by CR these days)

 

[Blaze4G]

So you think most people don’t know the difference between an accord and let’s say 535 or m3. Or an accord and a 911? You may be right, or terribly off base. (And bmw is recommended by CR these days)

I think there is some truth to it...especially the low end models...BMW x1, 3 series, 2 series, Mercedes gla, cla. Imo a lot of the times an accord or Camry has way more features and comfort for a similar price but the name plate sells. Anyway, off topic lol.

 

[Heineken]

So you think most people don’t know the difference between an accord and let’s say 535 or m3. Or an accord and a 911? You may be right, or terribly off base. (And bmw is recommended by CR these days)

CR is irrelevant. It's not a bible. Do your research and use your head.

 

[fairuz]

I think there is some truth to it...especially the low end models...BMW x1, 3 series, 2 series, Mercedes gla, cla. Imo a lot of the times an accord or Camry has way more features and comfort for a similar price but the name plate sells. Anyway, off topic lol.

I'd say that people more often buy Honda for the name when it comes to non-sports cars. They want reliability.

 

[Defthand]

The right to repair subject is such a non factor for AAPL financials, I couldn't care less.

And yet, here you are, opining on a topic that is meaningless to you and your spreadsheet.