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Here's a little patent law fun fact for you - if Apple infringes something that is a small part of the iPhone, and Palm or HTC infringes something that is a major part of their phones, when the dust settles Apple walks away with a giant pot of money for past infringement, and the inevitable cross-licensing agreement results in money flowing toward, not away, from Apple. They are doubtless taking this calculus into account.

Very good point IMO. I don't think any of this will end up with devices being removed, or changed. Be it Apple, Nokia, HTC, or whomever sues who next. It's about the incoming flow of revenue from the end game cross-licensing.

It's actually a good strategy for a big win for Apple to ensure a continuing stream of revenue in an ever crowding marketplace.

I'm not going to think anything less than Apple knows exactly what the end game will be, unless someone like Tim leaves the company. Then I would be worried that SJ might be out of control. As long as Tim stays with the plan it's rock solid to me. He has too many offers on a weekly basis to stay with a company that is not 100% confident in it's legal footing. :apple:
 
I don't think they are even concerned of about the HTC touch for this battle. sounds like its mostly about android based devices.

It's also the momentum that HTC&Android has.

Apple orders 5MP camera chips for the iPhone 4G while HTC releases phones with 8 and 12 MP and 720p video recording (HTC Desire).

Apple uses old A8 1GHz based chipsets (in iPad) while HTC now has A9 with 1.5GHz (HTC HD3).

Apple still uses crappy plastic while HTC brings unibody metal phones to the masses (HTC Legend)
 
I have never wrote this down before, but as you would say: LOL!

Many of us with iPhone still hate the limitations in the hardware, like the poor camera and battery life. If the software was so good, there would be no connection between the words 'jailbreaking' and 'iPhone'.

hear, hear, i agree wholeheartedly. i despise the fact that apple controls the entire process and doesn't trust me enough to choose and load it myself. I've got to go to iTunes. i even have to remember what i've purchased, 'causae when i've had to reset the phone (more often than i care to think), i don't always get all the software purchases back. it also peeves me that only apple software is allowed to multitask, that i can't install flash if i want to, and on and on.

now with the ipad pulling the same crap, i'm just waiting for apple to pull the same trick with their consumer ciomputers. i'm within a hair's breadth of simply abandoning the platform. i love it. i love os x. and i love the computers. but apple really isn't a computer company anymore. its a mobile device and consumer electronics company, and that's from the mouth of saint steve. it certainly shows in the bugginess of snow leopard, the problems with 27 inch imac, the lack of blue-ray and usb 3, the killing of firewire on all but the professional line, and on and on. i don't think apple really sees computers and os x as the crown jewels anymore, rather its the three muskateers, the ipod, the iphone and the ipad.
 
Yeah still I agree it looked more polished than the PS3 which is click-drag tedium. If an 'up flick, right flick, down flick' can get you from one end to the other in just three cute swipes it could be something quite nice to use.

Thinking on I now wonder if MS haven't *intentionally* avoided replicating the iPhone in the knowledge that a patent storm was brewing!

Its in their Zune HD, Zune Software and Xbox360 dashboard UI motif.

The only intentional thing they did was say "we don't want a grid of icons defining our phone."
 
Yeah still I agree it looked more polished than the PS3 which is click-drag tedium. If an 'up flick, right flick, down flick' can get you from one end to the other in just three cute swipes it could be something quite nice to use.

Thinking on I now wonder if MS haven't *intentionally* avoided replicating the iPhone in the knowledge that a patent storm was brewing!
This falls in line with some of the other complaints but they really should make the scroll of paper fit the display. I'm sure the ever so wonderful 'e' from the Zune HD's Marketplace comes to mind.

I do like the scroll of paper metaphor though.
 
I found this patent to be hilariously. Apple patents answering a phone while walking :rolleyes:

500x_7633076wtmk_01.jpg
 
I just didn't want to let this comment lost in the ether, while over-posting people maintain argue about their identity.

I went to a British law school, I have a management masters degree, but I never joined the bar. I have to tell you, none of my friends who did have the time to waste their lives on these forums. So, whoever maintains a lawyer image here, might be just as good in law as I am in feng shui or pleasing very skinny women.

Your post is a sad example of extremely uncalled for offensive remarks. I am sure there are dozens of good lawyers writing in these forums (myself included) that do it not only for fun but in order to get info about their preferred products.

So I don't know what "law school" you went to, but I must tell ya...some people are intelligent AND sane enough so that they don't have to work 24h every day.
 
You really have no idea what you're talking about.

He may or may not have any idea what he's talking about. But in either case he's stumbled onto being "correct" here. The HTC Elf/Touch was already nearly finished. It uses Windows Mobile 6. It would have been trivial to add most of the TouchFLO action-"chrome", like the sweep for Contacts/Media/Apps, because the underlying APIs for all of it already existed. It wouldn't have impacted manufacturing at all--it didn't change any hardware requirements.

What's your experience on a large software project? This sort of stuff happens in the last few months before release *all the time* to keep up with recent developments. It's not always a good idea (and indeed, the Touch saw an interesting number of complaints about the limited implementation of and utility of its touch elements at launch), but the managers want it and so it happens.
 
They may be "trying" to move away from the iPhone clone look, but even they are not doing a very good job innovation (shocker). Windows Mobile 7 (or whatever it is called now) is certainly a more subtle clone, but a clone nonetheless.

Well, here's the problem with patenting stuff like this: there's only so many ways to make a device interact with human beings. Given a screen, data to display on the screen, and processors to process the data, there are only so many ways to interface with it. There are keyboards, and mice, and pen-type devices, and now touch screens... What else is there?

Now don't get me wrong, I am *NOT* saying there's no more innovation to be done, or that Apple or some other company (or even individual) can't devise some new way of doing these things. At the same time, we have to realize that there are limits to this, at least in broad terms. As we get more and more "big idea" ways to interact with devices (touchpad, touch screen, keyboard, etc.), there will be fewer and fewer ways to get our bodies to interact with them, and most of the innovation will be in the particulars of how these things work (multi-touch is a good example, or tapping on touchpads, etc. etc.)

There's a reason, keep in mind, why nobody - even the tremendously innovative Apple - has really changed the basic "big idea" way their computer operating systems work since, well heck - the Macintosh in the 80s! Sure, there have been more "minor" innovations and changes: the Start Menu, the Dock, etc... but ultimately, we still have a series of windows in which our applications run, and the windows have buttons to close them, to make them bigger, and to make them smaller, and we can swap between the windows somehow, and open up new programs into them somehow, and so forth.

There's just only so many ways you can make a human interface work, and that's my problem with what Apple is doing here, and with talking about "iPhone clones." Are these phones clones? Well, in the sense that they operate similarly to the iPhone, sure - but not in the sense that they're necessarily copied from Apple as if the other companies couldn't come up with something on their own. There's just only so many "big idea" ways to do an interface, and so I am firmly in the camp that this kind of corporate bickering back and forth only stifles the innovation that companies can do in the "particulars" of how these things work.

It reminds me of when George Lucas tried to sue various movie studios for the way they depicted high speed space travel (among other things) as infringing on Star Wars. One of the things that came out of that was that, well, there's only so many ways to make a space ship look like it's going fast! So today, nobody is prevented from making their ships go fast just because Lucas wanted to have the monopoly on it. I pray these Apple suits (at least largely) turn out the same way.
 
Are you feigning ignorance? That's not what Apple patented.

FIGS. 9A-C illustrate exemplary user activities that can be determined based on input data acquired by the one or more sensors of the portable device. Exemplary user activities include, but are not limited to, the user looking directly at the portable device (FIG. 9A), the user holding the portable device at or near their ear (FIG. 9B), the user putting the portable device in a pocket or purse (FIG. 9C), and the like.

I found this patent to be hilariously. Apple patents answering a phone while walking :rolleyes:

500x_7633076wtmk_01.jpg
 
Your post is a sad example of extremely uncalled for offensive remarks. I am sure there are dozens of good lawyers writing in these forums (myself included) that do it not only for fun but in order to get info about their preferred products.

So I don't know what "law school" you went to, but I must tell ya...some people are intelligent AND sane enough so that they don't have to work 24h every day.

I extend an international pat on the back to my European colleague.

Since this company is Taiwanese based, owned and staffed ... it might be a challenge for Apple to have a lawsuit stick.

That's what the ITC is for - within a year they can get a ban on all HTC imports into the U.S. if they win.
 
I extend an international pat on the back to my European colleague.

Likewise, buddy. :)

That's what the ITC is for - within a year they can get a ban on all HTC imports into the U.S. if they win.

Although it would be unfair if HTC got the boot simply because of political pressure...I hope ITC acts in an equitable manner in dealing with these questions (even against American or European companies, for that matter).
 
Software patents are like putting a patent on math equations.


Seriously....i think it just hinders progression but at the same time i understand a company wanting to protect its patents.

But HTC, Microsoft, Palm and (less so) google all have related phone patents so this will be interesting to see how it plays out.


There IS progress. it's the iPhone.

remember cell phones before the iPhones? they're useless, ugly and hard to use.
 
which law school did you attend?

They are going after Palm, extra hard. Jobs has a hard on for Rubinstein.

Here's a little patent law fun fact for you - if Apple infringes something that is a small part of the iPhone, and Palm or HTC infringes something that is a major part of their phones, when the dust settles Apple walks away with a giant pot of money for past infringement, and the inevitable cross-licensing agreement results in money flowing toward, not away, from Apple. They are doubtless taking this calculus into account.

funny, i don't recall seeing you in any of my intellectual property classes at UC. which firm do you practice with? all kidding aside, your assertion is not entirely accurate. the "calculus" as you call it is a lot more complicated. firstly, there's always the risk that one of the parties will institute separate proceedings in the pto to have one or more patents invalidated. and actually, it's not as hard as one might think given the crowded nature of prior art in the cell phone field. no patent, no cross licensing, no revenues. this is essentially what happened to apple with its intellectual property battles with microsoft in the late 80s. apple rolled the dice and lost control of the look and feel of its mac operating system making it possible for ms to attain dominance. no revenues, no royalties, nada. if indeed, the equities between apple and htc/palm are as you describe, then perhaps apple could come out on top. but i haven't seen the specific infringements being asserted. further, don't forget that nokia is suing EVERYBODY for infringement of hundreds of patents for all aspect of software and hardware design. knowing apple's cavalier attitude towards patents and trademarks, it occurs to me that they could be in serious trouble here. the htc suit is probably a side skirmish designed to provide leverage with the suit with nokia (by having apple's priority vis-avis htc and palm resolved in its favor), but without reading the pleadins in all these cases, it's impossible to say.
 
Likewise, buddy. :)

That's what the ITC is for - within a year they can get a ban on all HTC imports into the U.S. if they win.

Although it would be unfair if HTC got the boot simply because of political pressure...I hope ITC acts in an equitable manner in dealing with these questions (even against American or European companies, for that matter).[/QUOTE]

The ITC, IMHO, acts very fairly, and is very experienced and knowledgeable in dealing with complex technical patents. I don't think there's much of a pro-U.S. bias based on the statistics.
 
This is NOT good. A market in which the iPhone is the only option is a horrible market indeed.

Having a choice is a good thing. If Apple manages to destroy HTC, Android, Palm, etc... we'll no longer have a choice. And that's a horrible situation.

We all love Apple for different reasons. I love the Mac. You love the iPhone. I can understand it, but at the same time, I'd rather there continue to be competition, because it keeps companies on their toes providing amazing stuff for us to play with at prices most of us can afford.

-Z

And you have to know that the Apple fanbois would LOVE to see the competition destroyed through the legal arena so that the iPHone can be the ONLY touch-screen smartphone. Amazing, they have the temerity to call MSFT a monopoly! :confused::eek::apple:
 
Except that Apple continues to develop the iPhone. Which is the worst news for the also-rans. And June is getting closer. Apple's already rolling out the *next* game-changer (it's already changing the game and it isn't even on sale yet), the iPad.

What have we been hearing about the Nexus One? Google's latest-and-greatest HTC-rebrand? Hey, Uncle Walt said it best, right? Great phone, but it's no iPhone. No one's even talking about the Droid anymore. It's as if Google wants us to forget all about it. And it's not even more than a few months old.

Maybe they can "continue to develop" a flash for the built in camera. Going on 4th generation now and no flash, what a joke.
 
Taiwan IS part of China; that's why Chiang Kai-Shek's delegates were expelled from the UN in 1971, following approval of Resolution 2758.

And I can tell you: the day some country like the US FORMALLY recognizes Taiwan as an independent State is the day a big military conflict starts.

Whoa! Taiwan is a separate country from China. We defend them if need be from the communist dictatorship of China.
 
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