Apple Gets EU Warning to Open iOS to Third-Party Connected Devices

[Krizoitz]

That point is quite far away, considering the EU is their 2nd largest market.

The EU is not Apples 2nd largest market.

You might be confused because Apple breaks down its sales into 5 geographic regions

- Americas
- Europe
- Greater China
- Japan
- Rest of Asia and Oceania

The “Europe” reporting region includes ALL of Europe, not just the EU countries plus ALL of Africa, the Middle East, and all of India.

The EU countries are nowhere NEAR Apples second largest market.

Apple themself have stated that the EU represents only 7% of Apples global revenue. And that’s for ALL Apple products and services not just iPhones.

Meanwhile the EU wants to fine Apple 10% of its entire GLOBAL revenue.

So even if iPhones accounted for 100% of Apples EU revenue they would be fools to keep selling iPhones in Europe because they would be LOSING money by doing so.

 

[skit911]

It’s hard to imagine Spotify and IKEA ever becoming gatekeepers in their markets. But if they do (imagine all music artists becoming dependent on Spotify to release their music or IKEA controlling the kitchen market so that every third party appliance has to be IKEA approved), then you can be sure the EU would step in.

“Gatekeepers”? You mean the trivial term the EUROPEAN UNION assigned to the two very different companies selling very different OSes?

I agree with some of their reasoning (30% is too high, USB C(until a new one comes out anyways…), default apps, etc) but this is getting pathetic.

You can’t force a company to develop something. Apple Watches are made for iPhones and android wear is made for android.

 

[LowKeyed]

So EU demands that third party devices can be integrated with iPhones on the same level as AW etc. What are the arguments against that demand?

The argument is that I don't care if that is a feature or option on the iPhone and Apple doesn't ether. Since I don't care and Apple doesn't want to do it, I'd prefer they not be required to divert resources to accomplish something their customer base is not asking for. Additionally, I don't want the potential hassles that compliance can add to my experience.

We've already established that Apple likes money, so if there customer base demands it, there is no need to legislate it.

 

[bellnen]

If you think what the EU is doing to Apple is going to help European Apple customers, you’re mistaken.

Apple is going to gimp all their European products lol.

It is Apples absolute right to do so. (Even though I personally think it is a bit of a pathetic display for a multi billion dollar company) but then competition will take the place of apple over time. That is completely normal and fair game.

 

[surferfb]

So EU demands that third party devices can be integrated with iPhones on the same level as AW etc. What are the arguments against that demand?

What should other companies get access to Apple’s hard work for free? Shouldn’t a company be able to differentiate themselves by making their products work better together?

Also, if companies don’t see ROI for a potential product they won’t release it. If they’re just going to have to give access to all of that products features to competitors who are going to undercut on price, it significantly changes the ROI calculation.

Not to mention Apple has less than 30% of the iPhone market in the EU and the competitor with over 70% market share already does what they ask. The government should not be dictating the company with 30% market share start acting like the one with 70%

 

[Krizoitz]

maybe we can start to develop our own EU iPhone

That’s exactly what the EU should, develop their own smartphone OS with all these requirements it’s trying to impose on Apple. See which one people choose. My guess is it won’t be euOS.

 

[s004aws]

If I was Apple I'd give EU bureaucrats the middle finger and end all sales and other operations in the EU. They want competition? Fine - Let the EU have one less competitor due to their choices. I hope this garbage doesn't spread to the US anymore than it already has. While I consider Apple's 30% fees obscene and shifting app store rules/the approvals process to be problems... That's also where I draw the line. Stick to addressing those specific issues. If I wanted an 'open' device where any app can do whatever the @#$% it wants I'd buy an Android or Linux-based phone.

Apple has, not for a single day, ever marketed iPhone/iPad/watch/Apple TV as 'open' platforms. It can be argued that Steve Jobs made the opposite quite clear when he launched the first iPhone. On the other hand the Mac has always been a relatively open platform... If Apple removed all ability for users to turn off restrictions limiting their Mac to eg Mac App Store apps only - Yes, that would be a problem the EU bureaucrats should involve themselves in.

Alternatively... EU-specific devices. Features? Think early 200s pre-camera flip phone except with a touch screen and nothing 'extra'. It probably won't sell well - But it ought to be sufficient to make a point. Europeans need to do something about their governance or face being left behind.

 

[NightFox]

If you think what the EU is doing to Apple is going to help European Apple customers, you’re mistaken.

Apple is going to gimp all their European products lol.

So Apple is going to deliberately reduce their competitiveness in the EU? What's their end game? It's a market that's already less OS-loyal than the US with many customers who'll happily switch between Android and iOS based purely on what gives them the best experience. Regardless of Tim Cook's ego, do you think the board and institutional shareholders would support that?

 

[skit911]

The argument is that I don't care if that is a feature or option on the iPhone and Apple doesn't ether. Since I don't care and Apple doesn't want to do it, I'd prefer they not be required to divert resources to accomplish something their customer base is not asking for. Additionally, I don't want the potential hassles that compliance can add to my experience.

We've already established that Apple likes money, so if there customer base demands it, there is no need to legislate it.

People don’t understand how

It is Apples absolute right to do so. (Even though I personally think it is a bit of a pathetic display for a multi billion dollar company) but then competition will take the place of apple over time. That is completely normal and fair game.

yeah it is. Enjoy.

We’ll be enjoying our easy to use products while you guys get your government developed … sorry government regulated hardware.

There is LITERALLY ANOTHER CHOICE. If Apple was the ONLY phone being sold I’d get it but it isn’t.

 

[GrayFlannel]

Apple's CFO, stated that the EU countries make up about 7% of Apple's global App Store revenue on a shareholder call. I can't think of a reason that the EU's percentage of App Store revenue would be any different than it's percentage of iPhone revenue, and I've asked in multiple threads and not gotten a good response (just claims that he "misspoke" on a shareholder call - which ignores the fact that Apple didn't correct the record which they would be required to do on that call.)

Also, the UK and India rank reportedly #3 and #4 in by-country revenue (bigger than France and Germany, for example). Both are outside of the EU but included in Apple's "Europe" market segment.

The list of countries in Apple’s “Europe” market segment can be seen on Apple's latest 10-K on investor.apple.com - it's on Page 5 of the 2023 10-K.

Let’s assume you’re right that the EU is not the second largest market. With that settled you have no other point. The topic is about the UK pressure on Apple and some people’s frustration over it wishing Apple to leave the market. So you’re being unnecessarily pedantic here. Apple is not going to toss away the EU market.

 

[WeLikeVodka]

If you think what the EU is doing to Apple is going to help European Apple customers, you’re mistaken.

Apple is going to gimp all their European products lol.

That's the thing, you play unfairly, you suffer the consequences. It's not the consumer's fault that Apple's practices are uncompetitive.

You make Apple look like the victim here. We're not talking about a Sailor Moon character, but a $3.3 trillion company.

 

[hagar]

We literally have two OSes that are completely different. One is a wild garden and the other is an open windows-like approach.

It’s almost like all Europeans need the EU to spoon feed them as consumers.

If you don’t like one buy the other, it’s not that hard

Both Apple and Google are affected by the DMA. It’s not like the EU is targeting only one.

Also, the fact they have both different business models is irrelevant. The issue is that they control access to their respective markets, favour their own apps and lock out or disadvantage certain software and hardware.

 

[VulchR]

Wait. At the end of this, we might be able to use other smartwatches PROPERLY with an iPhone? This is horrible news. Competition is bad customers!

I used a FitBit for years with the iPhone and never had a single problem. Not one.

EDIT: Not one problem, other than Google bought the company out.

 

[iPadified]

The argument is that I don't care if that is a feature or option on the iPhone and Apple doesn't ether. Since I don't care and Apple doesn't want to do it, I'd prefer they not be required to divert resources to accomplish something their customer base is not asking for. Additionally, I don't want the potential hassles that compliance can add to my experience.

We've already established that Apple likes money, so if there customer base demands it, there is no need to legislate it.

"Customers don´t know what they want until they see it." Does that ring a bell?

 

[skit911]

That's the thing, you play unfairly, you suffer the consequences. It's not the consumer's fault that Apple's practices are uncompetitive.

You make Apple look like the victim here. We're not talking about a Sailor Moon character, but a $3.3 trillion company.

Show me where I said Apple is the victim.

I’m saying the EU is a joke.

 

[mark-vdw]

I'm genuinely curious is there is any aspect or detail of a product's design and/or operation that the EU feels it should not dictate?

This reeks of bureaucratic momentum.

The EU wasn't dictating much at first.

It just told Big Tech companies in general (not limited to Apple) "do not use a dominant position in one market to give yourself an unfair advantage in an adjacent market". In other words, if you're big in smartphones, don't use that to give yourself an advantage in music streaming, smartwatches, digital payments, voice assistants, etc. They want smaller companies that don't have an established smartphone platform or social media platform to still be able to compete with the big guys on a level playing field.

Then Apple and the pundits went all "we have no idea what you mean with the spirit of this law, it is so mysterious to us, how can we possibly know whether we are complying or not???". So the EU started spelling out "OK you need to give an API to do X, and you need to allow 3rd party apps to be sideloaded, and 1st party apps to be deleted", etc. And now the same Apple and pundits go "oh silly bureaucrats are going too far in designing technology and they should let the companies decide how to comply, etc".

Honestly, it's a bit silly. Apple may not have a monopoly but they were clearly using a dominant position to give themselves leverage in other markets, which has been illegal in physical markets for decades and thanks to the DMA is now also clearly illegal in digital markets. They knew what they were doing and they are being told to stop doing it.

I don't see anything wrong with that. If Apple wanted the regulators to be less prescriptive, they should have tried being less controlling before the regulation hit or more cooperative after the legislation was passed.

 

[surferfb]

Let’s assume you’re right that the EU is not the second largest market. With that settled you have no other point. The topic is about the UK pressure on Apple and some people’s frustration over it wishing Apple to leave the market. So you’re being unnecessarily pedantic here.

My point was merely correcting the poster who claimed the E.U. was Apple’s second largest market. Because I see that all the time and it’s incorrect.

 

[skit911]

Both Apple and Google are affected by the DMA. It’s not like the EU is targeting only one.

Also, the fact they have both different business models is irrelevant. The issue is that they control access to their respective markets, favour their own apps and lock out or disadvantage certain software and hardware.

Android doesn’t.

 

[L92]

Apple themself have stated that the EU represents only 7% of Apples global revenue. And that’s for ALL Apple products and services not just iPhones.

Again, WHERE?

 

[VulchR]

... Either that or make other features us only, simply don’t offer them there at all.
...

That's done already and often there is a huge lag between introducing features in the US and introducing the same features in the EU and UK. This is true despite Apple's research arm supposedly being located in Ireland.

 

[skit911]

So Apple is going to deliberately reduce their competitiveness in the EU? What's their end game? It's a market that's already less OS-loyal than the US with many customers who'll happily switch between Android and iOS based purely on what gives them the best experience. Regardless of Tim Cook's ego, do you think the board and institutional shareholders would support that?

I don’t care I’m just sick of governments getting their fingers in everyone’s business.

 

[WeLikeVodka]

Show me where I said Apple is the victim.

I’m saying the EU is a joke.

That's what you implied in your previous post...?

Apple absolutely acts in their own self-interest, and they were found to act like a mob boss. Sure, the EU also acts in their own interests, but do you want to have companies running society?

 

[Krizoitz]

Meanwhile because of EU we will have removable batteries in a near future, and we already have usb-C.

1. No we won’t. Batteries aren’t going to be able to be popped out and in by the user on a daily basis.
2. We HAD phones that allowed exactly that. When given the option people overwhelmingly preferred the durability of non-removable battery phones. Only a tiny tiny majority of consumers want this. Forcing it on the rest of us who prefer the tradeoff of durability, waterproof, etc. is asinine.
3. USB-C isn’t an improvement for most of us. It’s bigger, less secure, less durable, less waterproof, and inconsistent in what it actually supports. The only advantage USB-C has over Lightning is top data transfer speed, which few iPhone users actually care about. Just like removable batteries the EU forced a feature wanted by a small minority on the rest of us even if we didn’t want it.

For customers like me the EU has already made the iPhone a worse experience.

Meanwhile if you wanted a phone with a removable battery and USB you could have bought one already. They exist. They just aren’t sold by Apple.

 

[VulchR]

Both Apple and Google are affected by the DMA. It’s not like the EU is targeting only one.
...

Both US companies. *cough*

 

[Krizoitz]

I want to choose what’s safe and what isn’t.

You can do that right now. It’s called buy an Android phone.