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Not if you bought it from a carrier - O2 confirmed my 2 week return/contract lock-in period was up last Thursday :( Would like to know if Apple's 30 return would be relevant through O2?

Doesnt matter what O2 have said. A lot of retailers think they are above the SOGA. Unfortunately for them they arent. So their 2 week policy aint worth jack.

Return the phone state they either replace it or refund you as the phone is unfit for purpose. If they cannot fulfill this then you are entitled to a full refund regardless of contract. you have defective hardware its O2 that needs to sort it as you purchased it from that shop.
 
"the arrogance levels at Apple" -- one little curt email from SJ -- not even to you -- and you are scarred for life?

you expect them to develop the product with the features that meet your little vision of the world and if they don't, they are arrogant? what a laugh...quit being a victim...you are simply just not a customer for their product...go buy something else.

Firstly, I didn't mention anything about an email, I don't know what you are talking about there, it's a bit of a strange comment to make really. And it was a forum post, of course I'm not "scarred for life"!

I think Apple have often taken petty and arrogant decisions that are not in the interests of large numbers of their customers (not just me or your ignorant perception of what my "little vision" is), for no real reason other than to try and shape the market rather than to improve the products for existing and repeat customers, who like their products overall. I am not being a victim, I've just got an opinion, just like you, and this is a forum for expressing such opinions.

On a wider point, I find it consistently silly when anyone who criticises anything Apple does get labelled as a 'hater' or is told to go buy something else then. I mentioned the video iPod and Firewire (...when it was dropped from the 13 inch alu macbooks) for a reason - they are both examples of things Apple talked down, then did what might reasonably be called a U-turn on. They aren't perfect.

It kind of goes without saying that if they annoyed me enough by not meeting my needs then I'd look at and possibly buy alternatives. It's a facile, maybe even empty point that gets repeated again and again on these forums and isn't challenged enough. It's just stating the obvious. Does posting here make any real difference to Apple's products? Probably not much if any. It's a place to express views. Apple.com/feedback is the place to send actual feedback, which I sometimes do.

But you know, overall I really like Apple's products. I really don't like Windows by comparison to OS X at all. I really don't like about 95% of other computer manufacturers machines by comparison. Is your suggestion that I go and buy one of their competitors' products and then clog up PC forums with far more expressions of things I don't like with those machines so some bright spark can tell me to stop being a victim and go buy a mac?! People compromise on some little stuff on Apple products, because overall the alternatives would involve much greater compromises. :p

I do not own an iPhone yet. I own an iPod Touch and an iPad, both of which I love, and have been holding off on an iPhone until a model I really thought hit every point I wanted came along. The iPhone 4 really looks like it should be the one, but it needs to work properly as a phone, and if Apple's attitude to fixing known issues if simply one of denial or obfuscation then yes, I might well not buy it yet. That's not being a victim, it's being an intelligent consumer who knows what he wants out of a product. Yeah, maybe I won't be a customer of the iPhone 4, but I'd like to be.

Furthermore, this thread in particular is about an event that has not taken place yet. To speculate on what they might or might not say seems logical enough to me. Your post seems to imply I should accept whatever Apple say this Friday, despite you not even knowing what that is yet. I find that a little odd.

Just please stop all the hyperbole and insults and try to make reasonable arguments in future before you call people names. Have a nice day.
 
Why do people like you insist on playing the same broken record - I doubt that anyone who has purchased an extremely expensive iPhone 4 + contract is a "hater", that would be retarded. Stop feeling butthurt that your beloved Apple is taking flak for making a flawed product, it happens, now those of us experiencing problems would just like a fix for them. Yes the phone does many things very well, but it has issues too - it's not perfect. You fanboys really think there are that many "haters" out there who do nothing but pop up on forums all day, run negative tests (obviously Anandtech/Consumer Reports etc are haters) and spend an inordinate amount of their own valuable time just to pretend Apple has made a mistake? Get over yourself.

Get over yourself. Return the phone. Any issues won't be resolved for months, if ever, and I'm tired of listening to a pile of "butthurt" mouth breathers ranting about cell phone recalls. People must think rolling into a mac centric forum to "spend an inordinate amount of their own valuable time" announcing they're going to buy a droid will really teach those of us who enjoy our iPhone (with no issues) a lesson or two. GO. Do it. No one cares. If you want to keep it, post something constructive or contact Apple.
 
or possibly replace the outside metal rim with a coating. I think this would a relatively low cost to Apple. They could recycle the metal rims without the coating.

Yeah but how would they get those phones BACK without a recall -- which they SURELY want to avoid
 
Two iPhone 4's were married yesterday

The Reception was awful. Apparently ... it had been held in the wrong place(!) :D


("Thats the first time we've heard that joke ......... today! :mad:"-Ed>)
 
Firstly, the iPhone 4 announcement where SJ had reception issues which he blamed on the wireless network, yet he himself was holding it in the death grip which could have been the first sign an issue was apparent.

...except he really was on a wifi network. and it eventually worked. so...
 
Glad I had to wait

I'm in contract until Feb and can't upgrade with Three (UK) until Oct. I'm now glad I had to wait so that I can see what is going to happen with the iPhone 4. I had thought about the 32Gb iPhone 3gs, but Three have stopped selling this now and I'm not too happy getting the 8Gb.
Here's hoping they've got a solution and the antenna will finally be a none-issue when I can upgrade.
 
As the last poster said, in the UK Apple's/02s return window is irrelevant. You are protected by the Sale of Goods Act. There is ample evidence that this phone has reception issues. You should be able to return your phone under the Sale of Goods Act for a full refund within 6 months of purchase without any problems.

If the retailer gives you problems just ask for a letter on company paper stating that they are refusing you your legal rights under the SOGA. They will change their tune very quickly.

Yes - and 5 out of 5 had the problem - which suggests it is highly unlikely that it is just a case of a few bad apple's wouldn't you agree?

Those good ones you seem to think exist must be very few and far between...

ex: I have seen 6-8 phone4 in the wild across various states in the US. I have asked each owner, do you have the antenna problem...the answer is NO. So I have a better "record" than the others...does that make my sample any more valid? Nope

out of a production line of 2 million, there may be a run of 200,000 that were mis-manufactured....or more...or less...no one knows until Friday. No one even knows how wide spread the issues are....or even what the issue is. The hysteria is just self-reporting a symptom. And the hystericals are coming from a very small group of folks...the blogosphere is loud, but that is about all...

Apple has always pushed the envelope in their design and materials use....which, I would think puts some initial stress in a mass production manufacturing environment.

Anantech was probably the most strict in how it diagnosed their iphone4...but as they said:
1. the iphone4 has the best reception and antenna of any previous iphones. It will hold a call better in lower signal areas than previously
2. the signals bar representation was way off...it represents a strong signal when you should be seeing low or no signal; the graphic representation of the bars is smoothed while the actually measured reception is not; and there is no standard algorithm across the industry on how this is done.
3. external antennas tend to suffer attenuation more than internal antennas
4. external antennas tend to receive signals better than internal antennas (see #1)
5. all cell phones suffer from attenuation in certain grips
6. iphone4 can be have higher attenuation because of 3 and 5 and it suffers worst in the death grip mode....(but don't forget #1)
7. putting the iphone4 in a case will reduce or eliminate #6
8. "don't hold it that way" also will reduce or eliminate #6

...and they stated the iphone antenna should have a non-conductive coating and that Apple decided not to put one on -- and here is my quibble...without knowing whether it actually was supposed to be there or not

I see nothing there to get emotional about or demand a recall over. Nothing there stopped me from ordering the product.

We shall see on Friday.
 
Buy one

I really can't see how they are going to fix this on phone they've already sold?? I'm think on buying the phone, but I don't how bad the issue is or is it all overblown by the media.... might with till next year..... I'm hoping that they announce a change to the hardware tomorrow that will completely fix the problem..... I don't want a "free bumper" or some patch up of a fix.... Crossing my fingers that they don't dismiss the issue :(

I have one (iPhone 4) it’s awesome, trust me the issue is not a deal breaker and most people are not having problems at all, like me. I can make the signal drop 1−2 bars but never drop a call or data connection, this only happens when I have a weak signal and I have to go out of my way to make it happen. When I have a good signal I cannot get it to drop any bars. I’m just trying to tell you, don’t let this be the reason you don’t buy one.
I’m sure Apple as always will have a fix for this antenna problem even though I still feel it’s not a big deal for most people.
 
The one thing it won't be is free bumpers;

Apple would kill the 3rd-party case market for a while, of which Apple want to keep good relations.

The productions of the bumper couldn't keep up with handing them out.

Bumpers is still a stopgap. I don't think they are going to jam a load of media into a room, and say: "We will give out free bumpers." That is just ready for more criticism.

Exactly. Not everyone is as dumb as LeBron James. Apple, in my memory, has NEVER held an unscheduled press conference. Or announced anything outside of a conference in YEARS. This will be interesting and you can bet your ass that they aren't going to stand up at a podium and offer some half baked BS. Whatever they're going to say it will be a fix of some kind. Back to the original analogy, they aren't going to make a surprise announcement in a public format with media to tell customers that they can pick up a free bumper case.
 
CNN's American Morning on the conference

There was a quick piece on CNN's American Morning regarding the press conference tomorrow. CNN reported that the conference will actually be on the reception issues.
 
bumpu.png


Bump - free to all existing iPhone 4 customers.​
 
ex: I have seen 6-8 phone4 in the wild across various states in the US. I have asked each owner, do you have the antenna problem...the answer is NO. So I have a better "record" than the others...does that make my sample any more valid? Nope

out of a production line of 2 million, there may be a run of 200,000 that were mis-manufactured....

Or as explained before and demonstrated by Anand and Consumer Report, the problem is location dependant. People that have not seen the problem with the bar graph are still probably experiencing the same 20 db drop in signal, except for them, it does not result in a loss of bar or 3G signal because the signal in the areas where they tested was strong enough to survive the drop.

The Apple software update to fix the bar display should by all logic make more phones display less bars when held than there are now.

There is no evidence of a manufacturing defect. No one has shown a proper video of someone in a 3 bar area touching the gap and staying at 3 bars of signal.
 
Now, now, no need to strawman. The result of the issue is irrelevant. If there's an issue, there's an issue, and there IS an issue.

There are many MANY recalls on products that have no relation to personal injury.

http://news.cnet.com/2100-1001-230785.html
http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9143099/Kingston_recalls_some_USB_drives_due_to_security_flaw
http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/other/display/20040125073138.html
I agree, but I just don't see this as a HUGE problem yet. I'm not ignorant of what's going on, but why if this is worthy of a recall aren't more people returning their phones? I just paid $300 for a phone, and if I couldn't get the phone part of it to work right, would be sending it right back to Apple for a replacement. Don't you think more people would be doing this if it was recall worthy?

Have you read any of the articles regarding the antenna?

http://www.antennasys.com/antennasys-blog/2010/6/24/apple-iphone-4-antennas.html

http://www.anandtech.com/show/3794/the-iphone-4-review/2

The anandtech article is especially enlightening since it shows the attenuation of the signal in db's. The iPhone 4 clearly loses more signal when held in the same way as other phones including the 3gs.

It clearly is affecting the majority if not all phones. The key factors on whether some don't see it seem to be:
-Some people naturally hold it in a way that does not attenuate the signal.
-Proximity to a tower. If close you will still lose signal but not enough to lose bars because of the algorithm they use to convert db level to bars
-Alot of people use cases regardless. These people will not see the issue.

They probably won't recall but an option to exchange it if they find away to fix it may be offered. Free bumpers possibly although this would be a controversial solution.

I don't mean to direct this at you it is just aggravating when people claim this isn't a big problem. If you leave in already spotty coverage it can be a very big problem.

I agree there seems to be a problem, but my concern is if this is truly effecting EVERYONE, like the internet states. Why are so many people keeping their phones? I run my own business, and ditched my landline at home a while ago, so first and foremost, I need this as a phone. I imagine other people are the same way. But are people so in love with their iPhones, they're unwilling to admit theres a problem. I'd imagine if everyone allover the globe was dropping calls, and unable to surf the web in a way that these findings, and tests would suggest more people would be in line to return their phones. However that just doesn't seem to be the case. SOMETHING must be up. Maybe everyone else is just holding their phone right, and haven't noticed(that sounds so silly). That and everyone with a bumper will never know. Again we will have to wait until tomorrow for Apples announcement.
 
I hope and dream that Steve Jobs will admit he was wrong. What a glorious day that would be.

You hope and dream Steve Jobs will admit he's wrong? Why? I would think one would hope and dream that they could someday contribute something to the world...not sit around and hope people would have to humiliate themselves.

Good luck with that.
 
You hope and dream Steve Jobs will admit he's wrong? Why? I would think one would hope and dream that they could someday contribute something to the world...not sit around and hope people would have to humiliate themselves.

Good luck with that.

Lowering one's ego is not humiliating. It's a step in the right direction.
 
I really can't see how they are going to fix this on phone they've already sold?? I'm think on buying the phone, but I don't how bad the issue is or is it all overblown by the media.... might with till next year..... I'm hoping that they announce a change to the hardware tomorrow that will completely fix the problem..... I don't want a "free bumper" or some patch up of a fix.... Crossing my fingers that they don't dismiss the issue :(

It IS overblown. Read this http://www.engadget.com/2010/07/13/yes-the-iphone-4-is-broken-no-the-iphone-4-is-not-broken/

I personally think Apple will give store credit to everyone who purchased an iPhone 4 for the value of a bumper and call it a day.
 
I hope they hold the press conference for the iPhone 4 in the hand correctly, or the signal will get lost.
 
I want them to address the proximity issue. i doubt they will but would love to hear what they have planned for that. The most ridiculous thing about the majority of the posts from people who don't experience either of these problems is that they think they only exist on a small batch of phones. Both of these problems are issues on every iPhone 4!

No they aren't. I don't have either issue and assure you I have tried to replicate both. Your post is example 1 of why problems that some people are having are being blown out of proportion. How exactly do you come to the conclusion that people that don't have these issues have phones that don't have them? You were able to contradict yourself within consecutive sentences. Congrats.
 
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