Apple Intelligence Features Not Coming to European Union at Launch Due to DMA

[Captain_Mac]

But what many of you keep saying is that it's nearly impossible to change ecosystems. I mean, that's a core argument for much of the DMA. But several of you here keep saying you'll just switch systems with seemingly no problems.

Well, as an European I can say that I don’t agree with everything the EU does. But Apple stretched the cord too thin in my opinion… for example, why was the NFC chip not available for other payment methods? So that Apple could collect $ with payments with Apple Pay, pure and simple. Competition is good for companies, it keeps them awake and constantly improving products for users! With that said, I also think the DMA went too far and forced apple to do incorrect things.
I was on apple’s side… until now. If they want to stay relevant and keep shop on the EU, they have to invest the money and respect the law, that’s how things work. If they don’t bring features to the EU, and keep treating us like second class customers, they lose me as a customer, and they will lose other ones. It’s not like apple’s products are cheap, and life is getting more expensive by the day. If people invest in an apple product because of the advantages, they also deserve to be respected. And apple is being a cry baby here really. The Mac allows other apps to control it, it’s not like it’s impossible to do that on iOS/iPadOS… so I’m voting with my wallet, it’s not like I owe apple any loyalty, they have to fight for the customer, not the other way around.
I’ll give you an example: my Apple Watch Series 5 was discontinued with watchOS 11, so I was considering buying a new series 10/X. But with these news? I’ll wait. And in part because I have more reasons not to update iOS so it’s compatible with the new watch. I’ll keep my iPhone on iOS 17.X, as I’ll have less incentive to install iOS 18 (features….) but on the other hand will still have to deal with early bugs, the usual battery drain problems of iOS X.0 versions, etc. Same for my iPad and iPadOS 18, Mac for macOS Sequoia, etc… And later I’ll see the treatment apple gives me 🤷‍♂️
All this coming from a person that is a BIG Apple fan! I own all their product categories, I converted my family to their ecosystem…
Nothing personal to you / your comment 🙂 I’m just frustrated with the news… I was looking forward to these features, mainly iPhone mirroring…

 

[SanderEvers]

Can someone show me how the DMA actually requires this instead of posting anecdotal messages of how they think it does?

To me this just appears as if Apple is throwing a hissy fit.

The DMA doesn't require it, but the rules in the DMA make it difficult for Apple to determine if these features would go against the DMA. That's why they delay them.

 

[Timo_Existencia]

Sorry, I don’t know what you are trying to say?🤷‍♂️ I wrote “closed, tight oligopoly” so yeah... it's obviously not a monopoly. Are you confusing me with someone else?

You responded to a response from me answering someone else who said that Apple is a monopoly. That's all I've said. Apple is not a monopoly.

 

[tehabe]

Is Apple treating certain developers different than others?

Yes, for Apple itself the rules don't really apply. That is the issue. Apple can offer their apps and services cheaper than other companies and it is forbidding other companies to link or even mention alternatives in their apps.

 

[frenchcamp49er]

Well, as an European I can say that I don’t agree with everything the EU does. But Apple stretched the cord too thin in my opinion… for example, why was not the NFC chip not available for other payment methods? So that Apple could collect $ with payments with Apple Pay, pure and simple. Competition is good for companies, it keeps them awake and constantly improving products for users! With that said, I also think the DMA went too far and forced apple to do incorrect things.
I was on apple’s side… until now. If they want to stay relevant and keep shop on the EU, they have to invest the money and respect the law, that’s how things work. If they don’t bring features to the EU, and keep treating us like second class customers, they lose me as a customer, and they will lose other ones. It’s not like apple’s products are cheap, and life is getting more expensive by the day. If people invest in an apple product because of the advantages, they also deserve to be respected. And apple is being a cry baby here really. The Mac allows other apps to control it, it’s not like it’s impossible to do that on iOS/iPadOS… so I’m voting with my wallet, it’s not like I owe apple any loyalty, they have to fight for the customer, not the other way around.
I’ll give you an example: my Apple Watch Series 5 was discontinued with watchOS 11, so I was considering buying a new series 10/X. But with these news? I’ll wait. And in part because I have more reasons not to update iOS so it’s compatible with the new watch. I’ll keep my iPhone on iOS 17.X, as I’ll have less incentive to install iOS 18 (features….) but on the other hand will still have to deal with early bugs, the usual battery drain problems of iOS X.0 versions, etc. Same for my iPad and iPadOS 18, Mac for macOS Sequoia, etc… And later I’ll see the treatment apple gives me 🤷‍♂️
All this coming from a person that is a BIG Apple fan!
Nothing personal to you / your comment 🙂 I’m just frustrated with the news… I was looking forward to these features, mainly iPhone mirroring…

Don't blame Apple, blame your government

 

[hans1972]

For this Apple would have to be deemed a gatekeeper of screen mirroring no? Just like Messages is not part of their DMA issues

Apple is deemed a gatekeeper for iOS and iPad OS, so everything software in iOS is under the DMA.

 

[Padriac]

Well, as an European I can say that I don’t agree with everything the EU does. But Apple stretched the cord too thin in my opinion… for example, why was the NFC chip not available for other payment methods? So that Apple could collect $ with payments with Apple Pay, pure and simple. Competition is good for companies, it keeps them awake and constantly improving products for users! With that said, I also think the DMA went too far and forced apple to do incorrect things.
[…]

The gist of the argument would be that if alternate payment systems are that important to you, you SHOULD switch away from iPhone. Not force Apple to conduct business to the way that suits you. Why is “don’t like it, don’t buy it” not an acceptable form of competition in the EU? Especially in the EU where none of you care about iMessage lock in… should be trivial to switch.

 

[Timo_Existencia]

Well, as an European I can say that I don’t agree with everything the EU does. But Apple stretched the cord too thin in my opinion… for example, why was the NFC chip not available for other payment methods? So that Apple could collect $ with payments with Apple Pay, pure and simple.

Sure. Apple is a business. And customers have choices.

Competition is good for companies, it keeps them awake and constantly improving products for users! With that said, I also think the DMA went too far and forced apple to do incorrect things.
I was on apple’s side… until now. If they want to stay relevant and keep shop on the EU, they have to invest the money and respect the law, that’s how things work.

Apple understands how business works. Does the EU? That remains to be seen.

If they don’t bring features to the EU, and keep treating us like second class customers, they lose me as a customer

I hope you find what you're looking for. And glad to hear that you aren't forcefully locked into IOS and Apple.

If people invest in an apple product because of the advantages, they also deserve to be respected.

Personally, I think Apple respects me as a user to a degree that no other business I frequent does.

And apple is being a cry baby here really. The Mac allows other apps to control it, it’s not like it’s impossible to do that on iOS/iPadOS… so I’m voting with my wallet, it’s not like I owe apple any loyalty, they have to fight for the customer, not the other way around.

Glad to see the market is working as it should.

I’ll give you an example: my Apple Watch Series 5 was discontinued with watchOS 11, so I was considering buying a new series 10/X. But with these news? I’ll wait. And in part because I have more reasons not to update iOS so it’s compatible with the new watch.

Great that you have other choices you can freely make.

Nothing personal to you / your comment 🙂 I’m just frustrated with the news… I was looking forward to these features, mainly iPhone mirroring…

It doesn't have to be personal. There's an existing market that is working great for consumers. I think Apple is doing great work, and I have found zero reason to leave them.

Your mileage may vary. Best of luck to you on your move away from Apple.

 

[contacos]

Apple is deemed a gatekeeper for iOS and iPad OS, so everything software in iOS is under the DMA.

Nope

Apple won’t be forced to open up iMessage by EU

The DMA’s interoperability requirement won’t apply.

www.theverge.com

 

[applepotato666]

Honest question: why does it seem most of Europe have such trust for Meta/Facebook? While of course popular in the US to varying degrees, there is also an underlying “Do NOT trust Meta” vibe here. In the US if you asked me to use Facebook anything (Messenger, WhatsApp) I’d laugh and ask what cut Zuckerberg is giving you.

I don't think it's necessarily trust that people have, though I can't speak for everyone in this case. It's just what we know. They were among the first ones to make chat accessible and available for everyone. There was a period in time where we used both Skype and Messenger as everyone migrated to a smartphone, but it was clear Facebook is going to be the thing.

You'd be hard pressed to find anyone between the ages of 15 and 70 who doesn't have a Facebook account, so it's the method to connect to chat. I do not trust them, neither do I trust Apple. With that said I can't label Facebook's business model as inherently bad. At the end of the day it's allowing everyone who has basic access to the internet to connect equally freely to others regardless of platform, and to use services that require massive upkeep costs for free. And all services that do this do what Facebook does.

Obviously, there are alternatives to WhatsApp/Messenger. Telegram, Rakuten Viber, Signal are popular or gaining popularity. But it could never be iMessage like in the US.

 

[SanderEvers]

Yes, for Apple itself the rules don't really apply. That is the issue. Apple can offer their apps and services cheaper than other companies and it is forbidding other companies to link or even mention alternatives in their apps.

And still All Apple apps adhere to Apple's own App Store rules. Always have and always will. The only thing you can say is that Apple doesn't have to pay Apple 30% for their app sales. But that would be the same as saying a supermarket can't sell their household products next to other products. That's just stupid.

 

[hans1972]

no it doesn't as these features would first have to be classified as gatekeeping under dma by the eu or a regulator, and that can only be done once or if it's available. so apple would actually need to make it available here first, then eu would start the process of review and in my opinion would most likely classify these as not being gatekeeping.

Apple is already deemed a gatekeeper for iOS and iPad OS. Everything they put into these operating systems comes under DMA scrutiny.

 

[Futurix]

Gotta love Apple throwing tantrums 🤣
Other than OpenAI integration, there's nothing that might have issues under DMA - especially things that work on device. It does not forbid adding new features to products, and SharePlay is literally an open API already.

 

[platinumaqua]

No "Apple Intelligence"? Apple, stop trying to make me want to change the location setting to EU to get all the good things they get!

 

[tehabe]

Apple is already deemed a gatekeeper for iOS and iPad OS. Everything they put into these operating systems comes under DMA scrutiny.

Maybe you should read the decision about Apple being a gatekeeper: https://ec.europa.eu/competition/digital_markets_act/cases/202344/DMA_100013_215.pdf

 

[hans1972]

It's all just made up petty malicious nonsense because Apple doesn't like the DMA

No, there are differences.

All operating systems from Microsoft and Google have open APIs which allow anyone to make screen sharing applications. Thus there isn't any problem with the DMA.

Apple has had severe limitations in iOS and iPad OS on third parties taking control of the device and the screen. If they provide this functionality only to themselves, it might be a problem with the DMA.

The DMA is really anti-closed system which means iOS and iPad OS will much more often come under DMA scrutiny. Since the EU can fine Apple millions of dollars for each day they're in violation, it's quite smart for Apple to be a bit careful.

 

[MilaM]

Apple is the only tech company that has an honest to god ability to separate itself from your data, because your data is not their business model. The rest of Silicon Valley literally isn’t built that way in their business models.

I agree with this. What I don't like, though, is that Apple is recently conflating my privacy with their business interests. If I want to share some data with a third party, I should be able to do this. I'm grateful they give me that choice and acknowledge that they are on my side regarding privacy most of the time. What I don't like is if they pretend to respect my privacy when it's really about their bottom line.

 

[tkaravou]

I do not trust them, neither do I trust Apple

The difference is the Meta is known to sell your data to others. They've had a bunch of scandals regarding it too. See Cambridge Analytica as one example. They continue to sell people's data with no remorse. They make money off WhatsApp by selling your data.

Apple on the other hand keeps promoting itself as a privacy advocate. They integrated E2EE into iMessage very early on. Can they be trusted? Who knows, but so far, they have not been caught selling your data, especially not to the scale that Meta has.

 

[hans1972]

Microsoft and google are able to have functional AI in Europe but Apple suddenly can't and even worse they can't make iPhone mirroring available?
Then why and how I'm able to mirror my Mac's screen to my AppleTV? The only difference is that I can control iPhone's screen with the new feature.

Because both Windows and Android are much more open systems, which makes it easier for third parties to make and install competitive solutions on Windows and Android.

The DMA is very anti-closed system, which makes it much harder for Apple do avoid DMA scrutiny.

 

[MilaM]

This is the thing the competition doesn’t want to admit: Apple’s customer base is their crown jewel. Through years of careful work they’ve built a user base that *trusts* the platform and important to businesses *this user base, per user, is the most valuable in the tech industry* because they actually spend money on software and services.

I'm an Apple user, but it would be news to me that Apple somehow owns me and my data because of that.

 

[SpotOnT]

Yes, for Apple itself the rules don't really apply. That is the issue. Apple can offer their apps and services cheaper than other companies and it is forbidding other companies to link or even mention alternatives in their apps.

Apple forbid mentioning alternative ways to pay in their apps…

They never forbid mentioning alternative apps…

Big big difference.

 

[hans1972]

This is completely Apple’s decision lol. Google, Samsung etc. are doing similar stuff in the EU and being much less transparent about it. The DMA has nothing to do with Apple Intelligence. At this point it’s literally just Tim Cook trying to kill whatever’s left of the company before he leaves by making the offerings less and less attractive to the rest of the world outside of the US again and again.

Of course, it does. Apple Intelligence is part of iOS and iPad OS. Apple is a gatekeeper for both of these operating systems under the DMA.

 

[Captain_Mac]

Don't blame Apple, blame your government

well I think if you read my last comment you’ll see that I am blaming our governments… but the law is the law, and…

Personally, I think Apple respects me as a user to a degree that no other business I frequent does.

If they really cared for their customers they would just find a way to bring them the features….

 

[dredlew]

At this point this is extortion. They hope the EU will back down if users complain enough. There‘s literally no reason for this.

Oh the irony… who again is literally extorting Apple for Billions of dollars?

I wish Apple would just shut down their servers in the EU for a day or two and then watch the EC crap their pants. That would be the appropriate response to the EU’s extortion.

 

[Timo_Existencia]

well I think if you read my last comment you’ll see that I am blaming our governments… but the law is the law, and…


If they really cared for their customers they would just find a way to bring them the features….

I think they do care for their customers privacy and security, and the DMA is trying to blow that up. This comment seems to suggest that the DMA poses no problems for Apple. But it does; it radically interferes with the way they operate.

And I, a customer, specifically chose Apple for the way they operate.