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Before that, you claimed you don't believe developers are unhappy with the App Store?
What makes you say that?
Because I've never seen any data that would suggest this to be true. But I was saying that in response to others who are saying that developers ARE unhappy. I didn't make the original claim, I'm only responding to it. And I think that is the kind of claim that should be backed up with data.
 
So, how is an operating system feature the same as a digital market? By this contrived logic the 100% safest thing to do would be to leave the EU.

The only way this would make sense would be if Apple Intelligence was going to be a premium service that users had to pay for. So far, there's been no indication of that.

Under the DMA, an operating system is defined as one of the core-services which is regulated by the DMA, if the creator of the operating system is deemed a gatekeeper.

Various parts of Apple intelligence may be under several core-services as defined by the DMA: operating system, virtual assistent and cloud computing services.

"The gatekeeper shall allow providers of services and providers of hardware, free of charge, effective interoperability with, and access for the purposes of interoperability to, the same hardware and software features accessed or controlled via the operating system or virtual assistant listed in the designation decision pursuant to Article 3(9) as are available to services or hardware provided by the gatekeeper. Furthermore, the gatekeeper shall allow business users and alternative providers of services provided together with, or in support of, core platform services, free of charge, effective interoperability with, and access for the purposes of interoperability to, the same operating system, hardware or software features, regardless of whether those features are part of the operating system, as are available to, or used by, that gatekeeper when providing such services." -DMA
 
You mean, like people who unironically argue that devices being limited by Apple’s app restrictions is a good thing?

It's a good thing. Windows and Android is examples of platforms with too much freedom. It's not something you want if you prefer simplicity and uniformity.
 
You're not really addressing my point. Can you show me where, in the text of the Digital Markets Act, it specifies that any and all operating system features need to be replaceable with a competitor's?

It doesn't, but it doesn't say the opposite either. The DMA is pretty vague in some places.

But you have this:

"Furthermore, the gatekeeper shall allow business users and alternative providers of services provided together with, or in support of, core platform services, free of charge, effective interoperability with, and access for the purposes of interoperability to, the same operating system, hardware or software features, regardless of whether those features are part of the operating system, as are available to, or used by, that gatekeeper when providing such services." -DMA
 
Apple can't win in legal court so they are taking the battle to the court of public opinion. Apple has outsourced their software QC to their consumers and now outsourced their legal department to their consumers.
 
So what you're saying is that you cannot prove that the DMA has anything to do with this. That's because the Digital Markets Act was not written to regulate operating system features - in text or in spirit.

If it was designed to limit what computers could do then I'd probably be on your side of the fence. The fact is that it was designed to address uncompetitive markets, like iOS App distribution. Notice how it doesn't require Siri be replaceable? As nice as that would be.

The DMA was made to regulate operating systems among other things.

Virtual assistents are also regulated by the DMA, but Apple wasn't considered a gatekeeper when it comes to virtual assistents. But at any time, EU can change their mind, and make Apple a gatekeeper, and thus Siri comes under DMA scrutiny.

If Siri is considered part of the operating system, then it's under DMA-scrutiny under iOS and iPad OS, but not under macOS.
 
Serious question: how comes Samsung has it „Galaxy AI“ stuff completely up and running in the EU without hearing them once whine about the *booohohohooo* DMA? 🤔

Samsung hasn't been designated as a gatekeeper, and thus don't have to follow the DMA.

At this time, the DMA only applies to less than 10 companies in the world.
 
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I get Apple Intelligence, but iPhone Mirroring?? What is the reasoning here? That the EU would demand that to work on Windows as well?
 
I get Apple Intelligence, but iPhone Mirroring?? What is the reasoning here? That the EU would demand that to work on Windows as well?
Encryption between a iPhone and Mac. Some EU countries have regulations against encryption usage. Even if we are talking about Bluetooth.


Law enforcement authorities and the judiciary are increasingly dependent on access to electronic evidence to effectively fight terrorism, organised crime, child sexual abuse, and a range of other cybercrime and cyber-enabled crimes. Such access is essential to the success of law enforcement and criminal justice in cyberspace. However, there are instances where encryption renders access to and analysis of evidence extremely challenging or impossible in practice.
 
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Or maybe some people just want Apple to have de facto monopoly by kicking Google and android out of smartphone market.

Yes, we do. Or Android can have 20% market share for the tinkering types and those who wants to control their device.
 
And yet, macOS as an operating system isn't regulated by the DMA at all.
Why would it be, MacOS doesn't restrict 3rd party web commerce, there is no need to use the Apple App store in most instances. You want to buy or install software you're free to select multiple methods to do that.

You have all browsers utilizing their own web engines with browsers. No issues with messaging. Able to interface with all usable cloud hosts for gaming.

This is a far cry from iOS/IPadOS with the App Store scenario. Webkit only browsers, and so on. Its also is a fascinating contrast to Apple marketing the AI ready M4 iPad Pro to the current AI ready M3 MacBook Pros, and M3 MacBook Airs. ;)
 
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God forbid someone be allowed to mirror their iPhone with a Windows machine, right? Then people will have one less reason to buy a Mac...the horror...

It is, since we need more reasons for people to buy Macs.

If you're in the small Apple ecosystem (compared to the main competitors), it isn't a good thing if Windows and Android users get a better experience. We want them to have hundreds if not thousands of bad experiences.
 
I think the original intent that got the ball rolling may have been that, but it’s selective enforcement and the arguments made from the politicians wielding it (who clearly don’t understand what they’re trying to describe) have made me think that it’s ineffectual in its stated goals. Good intentions, horribly confusing outcomes given its implementation at this time.

Btw, thank you, unfortunately it has become increasingly difficult to have a spirited but still thought provoking and informative discussion here on MR. You’ve proven that you’re here to engage in discussion instead of the quip engine so much of this site has become.
I still think that the politicians have the right intentions in this case. Will the outcome be good for consumers? I'm not 100% certain, but I do hope so.

Yeah, online discussions are too often just a shouting match. I also appreciate it when someone actually tries to understand the arguments of the opposing side.
 
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EU != Europe

From a market size and GDP perspective EU = Germany & France. The GDP of all the other EU countries combined are less than the daily market cap changes for NVDA. To bypass the increasing headaches of the DMA Apple should just sell to the UK and exit the EU. Anyone in Germany or France that wants Apple products can just order from there. It's similar to how Tesla gets around all the outdated laws requiring car dealerships (created by dealerships).
 
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It is, since we need more reasons for people to buy Macs.

Why not...make the Mac a better computer? Instead of having to lock in users by artificially gating features behind the ecosystem?

Don't get me wrong, I adore MacOS, I just think that these business practices are at the expense of the products. Apple should focus on making their products better, not just stickier.
 
From a market size and GDP perspective EU = Germany & France. The GDP of all the other EU countries combined are less than the daily market cap changes for NVDA.
Sorry to be that person, but comparing market cap to revenue (GDP of an economy) is a bit misleading.
 
Gatekeeper predates the formation of the EU, by very many centuries.

Yes, but not in the way gatekeepers are defined in the DMA.

If you're a company which dominates the market for music distribution, you can't be gatekeeper even if you control 100% of the market.

If you own an advertising intermediation service, you can't be a gatekeeper. But if you also own a number-independent interpersonal communications service, you might.
 
Encryption between a iPhone and Mac. Some EU countries have regulations against encryption usage. Even if we are talking about Bluetooth.


But are those rules part of the DMA? Because Apple is specifically blaming the DMA on this one, are they not?
 
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