Look up the word investment. It doesn’t mean what you think it does.
i wish I had better luck with my iPad Pro.
Ditto.
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Apple Knowingly Sold 2016-17 MacBook Pro Models With 'Flexgate' Display Defect, Judge Says
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My flexgate experience.
In late 2017 I bought a new 2016 15 inch MacBook Pro.
in late 2019 I got the stage light effect on my screen.. in 2020 my screen stopped working completely.
this is Apples design flaw and Apples responsibility to fix it.
All I can do with this MacBook Pro is use it to watch Netflix on my TV.
I spent a lot of money on this tool... in 2020 during the pandemic when I needed my tools the most, it broke due to a design flaw by Apple, who have remained almost totally silent on all questions about this.
someone at Apple needs to step in and handle this and do right by their loyal paying customers.
I love Apple computers. I want to get another MacBook Pro soon. I simply want to be able to trade in this 2016 model for it, at a high trade in price - the full amount that Apple offer for current MacBook Pro trade ins. I feel very clear that this is fair, reasonable and a solution to resolve this issue that has gone on long enough.
In late 2017 I bought a new 2016 15 inch MacBook Pro.
in late 2019 I got the stage light effect on my screen.. in 2020 my screen stopped working completely.
this is Apples design flaw and Apples responsibility to fix it.
All I can do with this MacBook Pro is use it to watch Netflix on my TV.
I spent a lot of money on this tool... in 2020 during the pandemic when I needed my tools the most, it broke due to a design flaw by Apple, who have remained almost totally silent on all questions about this.
someone at Apple needs to step in and handle this and do right by their loyal paying customers.
I love Apple computers. I want to get another MacBook Pro soon. I simply want to be able to trade in this 2016 model for it, at a high trade in price - the full amount that Apple offer for current MacBook Pro trade ins. I feel very clear that this is fair, reasonable and a solution to resolve this issue that has gone on long enough.
I think Jobs' own biography has explained it. Often times Apple sided with the design team over the engineering team (obvious example, antennagate), consciously. It's been improving though (eg. ditching butterfly keyboard), but due to the costly nature (purchase price and repair cost) of Apple products from customer's perspective, it does feel that Apple is slipping in a sense.
But still, business schools teach the basics of customer service. A lot of case studies, especially in regards of branding and marketing, that emphasize the importance of taking care of your customer (most of them put Apple as one of the glowing examples). Customer acquisition cost is much higher than customer retention, so it should be in a company's best interest to keep their customers. But someone at Apple seems to be corrupting this, essentially looking at service and support as a traditional "business", charging people hefty cost for design flaws. I think there ought to be a deep dive into Apple's retail executives changes that might influence some of Apple's actions.
Far be it from me to harken back to the halcyon days of Steve, but he would have never let this sort of thing continue under his watch. To be sure, he made tough decisions that screwed over customers - generally, corporate customers. Apple certainly had some flops (puck mouse, G4 cube) in his day. But I don't believe he ever allowed a knowingly defective product to ship. Apple was his baby, and he'd gladly eat some cash to make sure he was putting out only the very best.
Tim simply doesn't give a rat's ass. Don't get me wrong, I happen to agree with most of his socio-political leanings and statements (though I wish he would back them up more with actions), but that's really irrelevant here. I honestly wish I didn't know his personal beliefs. He might be a standup guy personally, but professionally he's sweet poison. Sweet because he rakes in so much cash for shareholders that he's never going to have to step down. Poison because since he took over the reigns at Apple, he's been slowly killing everything that made the Mac great. Good-bye rock-solid hardware and software. Hello, shoddy software and hardware design.
The butterfly keyboard is another (more glaring) example of something that was clearly defective, yet Apple chose to stick their head in the sand and wait for it to blow over, then parade around years later with a new, "improved" keyboard that was basically the old design people had been clamoring for. Like, how stupid do they think we are?
This sort of thing is indefensible. Tim and the rest of the executive team either know about these issues but choose not to care (likely), or they don't know about them (which then begs the question: how good are they at their jobs?). Either option is not flattering, but there it is.
Tim, just do us all a favor and admit you're a money-grubbing arse. We all know you're not going to change, but have the decency to admit you're screwing people over when you are, in fact, screwing them over.
Tim simply doesn't give a rat's ass. Don't get me wrong, I happen to agree with most of his socio-political leanings and statements (though I wish he would back them up more with actions), but that's really irrelevant here. I honestly wish I didn't know his personal beliefs. He might be a standup guy personally, but professionally he's sweet poison. Sweet because he rakes in so much cash for shareholders that he's never going to have to step down. Poison because since he took over the reigns at Apple, he's been slowly killing everything that made the Mac great. Good-bye rock-solid hardware and software. Hello, shoddy software and hardware design.
The butterfly keyboard is another (more glaring) example of something that was clearly defective, yet Apple chose to stick their head in the sand and wait for it to blow over, then parade around years later with a new, "improved" keyboard that was basically the old design people had been clamoring for. Like, how stupid do they think we are?
This sort of thing is indefensible. Tim and the rest of the executive team either know about these issues but choose not to care (likely), or they don't know about them (which then begs the question: how good are they at their jobs?). Either option is not flattering, but there it is.
Tim, just do us all a favor and admit you're a money-grubbing arse. We all know you're not going to change, but have the decency to admit you're screwing people over when you are, in fact, screwing them over.
I seriously doubt Apple will knowingly sell a product with this kind of defect. It cost them more to rectify this kind of problems than to prevent them.
I literally posted this issue in the Flexgate thread about a week ago. Got a 2016 15" TB MBP which has this stage light issue. Called Apple. They said only 2016 13" MBP's with this issue are covered. Cost to fix is astronomical.
IDK about that.
Apple obviously knew about the keyboard issue, but continue to sell Macs with it.
While the marketing of the silicon covering on the 2018 MBP's modified butterfly keyboard was to make the key presses more quiet, the internal leak showed that the real reason was to try to prevent dust from getting inside. Being more quiet was a happy side effect for Apple.
But, the silicon cover still didn't fix the design problems, which looks like led to Apple backpedalling on their notebook keyboard design, going back to a scissor mechanism.
They had repair programs, but replaced badly design keyboards with keyboards with the same design flaws.
So, Apple knew there was a problem, but sold them anyways.
At least with the keyboards, I think that Apple used cost-benefit analysis and risk-benefit analysis, weighing the costs, risks, and benefits of alternatives between bad PR, class-action lawsuits, repair programs, and major redesigns.
This isn't something new in business.
One of the most famous cases of this, which actually led to the deaths of over 100 people was when Ford knew there was a major safety problem on the Pinto, but continued to sell it because it would have hurt their profit margins.
Basically, the cost of lawsuits and fines, along with the cost of lives was better than the negative impact of doing a major recall and halting the sales of the Pinto would have on their bottomline.
While I don't think Ford did anything that was strictly illegal, it was a very unethical business practice.
I know that a lot of business schools teach about the Ford Pinto in the Ethics in Business classes. It was brought up in many different classes while I was in school.
haha I remember all those people who used to call us Apple Doomers and negative people for disliking that Macbook. Once it was released and saw how aweful it was I hunted for the reliable 2015 models.
Flexgate, no ports, hardly any extra performance, touchbar, 1 port type, butterfly keyboards... USB-C is future proof they said🤣🤣
Its seriously evil when you think about people in developing countries who saved money just to buy an Apple product, then Apple gives them this defected product that they can't fix because there is no Apple Store in the country for repair and it would cost them serious money to ship it back and fourth not to mention the time they will stay without a computer they need.
Flexgate, no ports, hardly any extra performance, touchbar, 1 port type, butterfly keyboards... USB-C is future proof they said🤣🤣
Its seriously evil when you think about people in developing countries who saved money just to buy an Apple product, then Apple gives them this defected product that they can't fix because there is no Apple Store in the country for repair and it would cost them serious money to ship it back and fourth not to mention the time they will stay without a computer they need.
I'm surprised your post got a single downvote.
All companies do that. All of them.
- If there is a defect or a deficiency the producer will look at;
- The magnitude of the problem, (when and how will it fail and in what numbers).
- The length of time and cost to fix pre-production.
- The length of time and cost to retrofit, post-production.
- The potential effect on brand damage/future sales.
Apple love to virtue signal and spends a lot of time on their image of whiter than white, but they are as dirty as a lot of others. Fanboys are blind to that.
Oh please, any good company will look at things like over extending. Man what a crock.
Apple waffle on about the environment but their true colours shine through here ‘Apple is pushing back, saying that Talehspour bought his MacBook Pro in 2017, and used it without any issues for more than three years’ Just because 3 years is generally when it equipment has depreciated on a companies accounts is no reason to be happy that it lasted so long without a fault. Same crap with the keyboards. And we are going to see this issue with on board ram and storage failing, rendering machines unusable.
Apple need to offer long term support and not charge the earth for it, maybe then they will build systems that can work for years and when the time comes, users will gladly buy another from them.
Apple need to offer long term support and not charge the earth for it, maybe then they will build systems that can work for years and when the time comes, users will gladly buy another from them.
Well technically, even a depreciating electronic asset can be perceived as an investment so as long it generates value or income to its owner? A broken laptop with perpetually broken display flex cable for example can disrupt said process. Hence, a bad investment.
I don't think YOU know what it means.
From the dictionary; "a thing that is worth buying because it may be PROFITABLE or USEFUL in the future: freezers really are a good investment for the elderly."
Whilst desirable, it isn't necessarily both.
That's not the whole situation. Apple has a number of official rules that are designed to control the forum and suppress negative posts in a very subtle manner.
In practice they are quite heavy handed.
For example they say that you should not engage in speculation. Now when that speculation is good it gets left alone but when its bad, (and arguably justified), the opposite happens.
In addition, to balance your point about customers trying to get a free repair, when a post is factual and can be backed up demonstrably and scientifically but also negative, it's deleted, (see Jessa Jones).
Customers cracking their own screens has more to it than it sounds. In mosts cases it will be the customer but not all. What if they had a bad batch of screens that were weaker than they should be? It means they will fail in normal use and quite frankly even in a 'good batch' there will be bad screens.
Lastly. On that forum the word 'rant', takes on a very broad definition if it shines a negative light on Apple.
A kid would know that those thin flimsy cables don't have a chance of surviving more than a year rubbing themselves on the edges of a chisel-cut motherboard. If you see the video on youtube of them stretching, you feeling something in your belly. 
I actually sold my 2017 13" MacBook Pro last year because of this, Apple Care Expiring, and the Keyboard issues. I figured it was only a matter of time before something major failed and I would be stuck with a huge repair bill.
A computer is a depreciating business expenditure. You invest money in to a business to purchase these tools, but the tools themselves are worth very little at the end of the day.
Yea.. thats like saying.. I got a car instead of 3 bicycles. Doesnt compare lol.
Maybe I just don’t get your point?
This is why I get AppleCare on all my Apple products, makes it easier if something is not designed right and needs to be replaced.
Yeah, Apple doesn't QA any of their products. They just manufacture them and stick them out into the ether. Hoping it will stick. Of course they QA their products. My daughter has a 2016 with no signs of this. I don't think it's a widespread problem. With that said, they should address it.
I am not a fanboy but .. wait... the judge, in that case, was acting on a motion to dismiss.
That means Apple was saying: there is no point litigating that because the plaintiff will lose in any circumstances
The judge is saying: That standard is not met because I see circumstances in which the plaintiff MIGHT win
That's all he is saying. He allows the case to proceed.
In plain English, If I send a letter to Justice claiming Company X has bogus accounting and they reply "we have opened a case xxx to look into what you say" don't write in a post "Justice Department agrees Company X is crooked"
That means Apple was saying: there is no point litigating that because the plaintiff will lose in any circumstances
The judge is saying: That standard is not met because I see circumstances in which the plaintiff MIGHT win
That's all he is saying. He allows the case to proceed.
In plain English, If I send a letter to Justice claiming Company X has bogus accounting and they reply "we have opened a case xxx to look into what you say" don't write in a post "Justice Department agrees Company X is crooked"
I still own one of these. So shameful.
In 2019, some customers of 2016 and 2017 MacBook Pro models began to notice an odd "stage lighting" effect that would impact their screen, potentially causing the laptop to be unusable. The odd occurrence resulted from a weak and fragile flex cable that can experience wear and tear with repeated opening and closing of the computer.
Image via MacRumors reader SourceSunToM
Now, two years later, a judge who's presiding over a case from a group of consumers accusing Apple of knowingly selling the laptops, despite the defect, says that Apple would have been alerted to the issue thanks to pre-release testing.
As reported in a paywalled report from Law360, Judge Edward Davila sided with the plaintiffs by agreeing that testing the laptops before their release would have informed Apple engineers of the issue. Hence, the company knowingly sold the laptops with the defect.
The plaintiff, Mahan Taleshpour, representing a larger group of consumers, says that Apple "continues to deny there was ever a defect in its display cables," and goes further to say that Apple attempted to cover any evidence of "Flexgate."
According to Talehspour, Apple deliberately deleted comments and threads from its Apple Support Community Forum, which often serves as a go-to place for crowdsourcing information on potential issues with Apple devices. Talehspour accues Apple of deleting comments that outlined "Flexgate" and the issues around the display. The judge says that if the accusation is true, it will act as further proof that Apple was aware of the issue.
Apple is pushing back, saying that Talehspour bought his MacBook Pro in 2017, and used it without any issues for more than three years until the case was filed. Apple also says that the allegation is based on false assumptions,not hard-ironed facts.
Specifically, Apple says that the idea that pre-release testing of the device would have alerted it to the issue is not accurate. Alexander Wheeler, an attorney for the case, says that the plaintiffs are "naturally pleased" with the judge's current stance on the issue and their decision to allow the case to move forward. Wheeler goes on to state the specifics of "Flexgate."
With the release of the MacBook Pro in 2018, Apple addressed the issue by adding a longer and seemingly stronger flex cable to the display, reducing the likelihood of wear and tear.
Article Link: Apple Knowingly Sold 2016-17 MacBook Pro Models With 'Flexgate' Display Defect, Judge Says
The issue is how little they pay to the QA teams who are also inexperienced. This is what you get.