Apple Knowingly Sold 2016-17 MacBook Pro Models With 'Flexgate' Display Defect, Judge Says

[JBGoode]

Hey, that's my shtick!

Apple cycle of dealing with issues


Here's the typical cycle for problems reported on Apple products:
1. A few members post reports of the problem, report it to Apple
2. No response from Apple
3. Increased number of people report the issue
4. No response from Apple
5. Apple apologists dismiss the reports as very rare, the result of trolling, or exaggeration by drama queens
6. Even more reports of the problem
7. No response from Apple
8. News of the problem hits blogs
9. Apple apologists dismiss the blogs as simply engaging in clickbait
10. No response from Apple
11. Those affected by the issue threaten a class-action lawsuit
12. Apple apologists decry the "sue happy" nature of American consumers
13. Apple acknowledges the legitimacy of the problem
14. Apple apologists are silent
15. Apple release an update to correct the problem
or
15. They set up a "program" to address the problem.
16. Apple gains some positive publicity
17. Apple apologists applaud Apple for doing the "right thing". (for an issue that they said from day-1 was not actually an issue)
18. First hand experience with the “program” reveals very strict guidelines and restrictions that greatly reduce the number of affected customers that can participate in the program.

Any idea why I received a notification that you quoted my post? I’ve not even looked at this thread.....🤷‍♂️

 

[Apple Knowledge Navigator]

Doesn’t surprise me in the slightest.

Who can forget when following the first round of butterfly keyboard troubles, they added the silicone membrane to “reduce noise levels”...

 

[Peperino]

They lie through their teeth.

I'm not sure if anyone remembers staingate. But I paid for a repair to the display during that period. I only found out about the unannounced internal display program more recently which was never made public.

I talked to their Tier 2 support requesting a refund given that I had paid for the repair during the period the repairs should have been covered. They denied up and down that there was ever any repair program. I could only refer them to sources like Macrumors etc which reported on the internal program, which they said they could not accept.

So, I requested all of my AppleCare documents from Apple (which you can do through privacy.apple.com).

It took them two months to get me the records because initially they don't send you AppleCare notes--you have to appeal to get those and it takes a really long time.

In the AppleCare records the person I spoke to in their notes referred to the internal program multiple times that she told me did not exist. She also documented that she could not accept sources like Macrumors.

So they know it exists, even mention the program in their notes (part of it is redacted), and then tell you that they can't acknowledge a program exists if I only know about it from a third party source.

It's like dealing with the mafia.

Fortunately their notes are now proof of the program's existence (even though they redacted the name of the program or some other reference to it that I can't see), so hopefully I can finally make some headway.

You can sue them in small claims and subpoena all the records. They will have to release the records in less than a month.

 

[nquinn]

Apple loves hiding these things. Around early 2019 after 3 years of butterfly keyboard hell, I asked multiple Apple employees in the store if their laptops had any known keyboard issues and they all denied it.

2016-2020 was basically a total wasteland of garbage laptop updates from Apple. Bad keyboard, touchbar, flexgate, port removal, and minimal performance upgrades with intel cpu's only gaining maybe 5-7% per year.

 

[1129846]

Honestly, good.

Apple’s either lying or they don’t QA their new products. Which one is it, Apple?

You missed one. Apple set their QA requirements way to high. For example Apple could of decided unless it was over 10% failure it is not an issue. If it was at 9% failure apple would say they never knew about it and saying not an issue. Now I am making up the numbers clearly but shows you that they could be QAing and "not knowing"

It really boils down is Apple's QA process is not good or they are lying and turning a very blind eye to the problem early on. My guess it they knowingly turned a blind eye. I say that as just someone who has work long enough to been one of the people to knowingly turn a blind eye to an issue in the product at the time as the cost in time to fix it was to great. We did not fix that issue in the software for a few years.

 

[Hahab2b]

Way to go apple.

 

[1129846]

I think we all know the truth here.
A company like Apple does the maths of the financials.

What's cheaper?
Stop selling the product, re-engineer the bad design flaw, then re-release the fixed design?
Or simply carry on selling as is, deny the issue and simply pay to fix the machines which show the problem?

I'm guessing that the second option is of course the easiest to do, and probably the cheapest option also.
Plus it avoids the negative publicity of having to stop selling/issue a recall.

Yep. A good example back in the day is from one of the auto manufactures saw that their cars caught firing in some crashes. They calculated that it cost say $3 per car to settle the law suits but it would cost $4 per car to fix the issue. Guess which option they choose?

 

[needsomecoffee]

cable stress
engineers should have caught that one in engineering phase

Yep. Having seen the video explaining this issue (thanks Louis), it is hard to believe any experienced engineer did not know this would happen during the design phase. QA really not needed. Apple obviously had a process in place which denied decision-specific input from such folks. Hope they have changed their ways. As some have already noted, many companies will find different reasons why they go with obviously sub-par engineering. I sat in a good number of such meetings with Corporate Finance usually being the bad guy (but I suspect Ive had a big hand in Apple's malaise). Maybe someone will write a book in 20 years or so.

 

[Christian 5G]

If there was a lie involved by Apple I hope there is going to be a big price then for this issue. I can now remember posting to apple support community and my posting was deleted after few days (now I know why most likely) and I couldn't do anything, I mean what do you do?

I was one of the affected back then and apple wanted $800 to repair flex gate that I didn’t even know what it was and how did I affect it when it’s internal as person in Apple store blamed it on me. I was a college student with finals at the same time, so this was rather a frustrating experience, I had to buy external monitor for cheap so I can do assignments because my screen would show annoying patterns when my MBPro is open at a certain angle.

 

[1258186]

Continuing to sell a knowingly defective product and covering it up is shameful and shows Tim Cook’s utter contempt for customers who paid a lot of money for these products.

 

[Maconplasma]

Apple would never pull this prank under the last Honcho

Get real! The last “Head Honcho” sent out a plethora of defective products including the iPhone 4 with the antenna problem for which the last “Head Honcho” blamed customers and said they were holding it wrong and gave them a damn rubber band to put around the phone so their body chemistry didn’t cause the antenna reception to die out.
To give the last Head Honcho so much credit just shows you have no idea what you’re talking about.

 

[Maconplasma]

Apple also knew they had a keyboard issue, and continued to sell Macs with that major design flaw.


You might be right, but it is very unethical.

Most companies might not be called out for it, but Apple might and they should be held accountable.

So you’re saying as long as a company is not called out for it like the media loves to do to Apple then they should not be held accountable? Because it really sounds like you’re giving other companies a big pass. Lenovo STILL is selling Thinkpads with defective screens. 4 years of complaints and they still IGNORE customers. The screen does not sit flush to the body on both sides when closed and Thinkpads are equally as pricy as Macs, but very ugly.

 

[MBAir2010]

Get real!
To give the last Head Honcho so much credit just shows you have no idea what you’re talking about.

RELAX!
Steve tried to remedy the iPhone 4 and suggested that the hold the phone better THAT month
and these iphones were still new in development.

Steve did not hide behind political correctness awareness movements while apple users got screwed buying rather expensive laptops that did not work as promised. these laptops had decades of development and was a step down in performance since 2012.

you also forgot how much i should "educatedings myselfs should be"!

 

[farmboy]

Imagine spending the premium that Apple products demand only to get something that is no better than a cheap off the shelf Asus. I'd be furious. Shame on Apple. Yes, every company probably does this sort of shady **** but they are not Apple. Apple are supposed to be better than this. They charge a premium for their products and there should be zero chance of this type of thing with them.

Right, Mike....tell us when you can manufacture millions of a product containing a thousand parts with zero defects from Day 1 to EOL. It does not ever happen in any product in any industry. That's why there are warranties.

I don't know where the failure arose here, might have been design, QA-QC, manufacturing, raw material supplier, etc. My personal and business policy is "fix the problem and minimize the potential for recurrence". Apple sometimes shoots itself in the foot with their recalcitrance towards fixing a problem. I would do it differently. In a corporation the size of Apple, sometimes I think there are too many people making deviations from an effective public relations policy.

 

[definitive]

I think we all know the truth here.
A company like Apple does the maths of the financials.

What's cheaper?
Stop selling the product, re-engineer the bad design flaw, then re-release the fixed design?
Or simply carry on selling as is, deny the issue and simply pay to fix the machines which show the problem?

I'm guessing that the second option is of course the easiest to do, and probably the cheapest option also.
Plus it avoids the negative publicity of having to stop selling/issue a recall.

Wasn't this something that's discussed in Fight Club about car manufacturers? A certain model car causes accidents or catches fire, at which point the car maker decides on which solution is cheaper: have a recall and fix the issue, or go through a lawsuit.

They lie through their teeth.

I'm not sure if anyone remembers staingate. But I paid for a repair to the display during that period. I only found out about the unannounced internal display program more recently which was never made public.

I talked to their Tier 2 support requesting a refund given that I had paid for the repair during the period the repairs should have been covered. They denied up and down that there was ever any repair program. I could only refer them to sources like Macrumors etc which reported on the internal program, which they said they could not accept.

So, I requested all of my AppleCare documents from Apple (which you can do through privacy.apple.com).

It took them two months to get me the records because initially they don't send you AppleCare notes--you have to appeal to get those and it takes a really long time.

In the AppleCare records the person I spoke to in their notes referred to the internal program multiple times that she told me did not exist. She also documented that she could not accept sources like Macrumors.

So they know it exists, even mention the program in their notes (part of it is redacted), and then tell you that they can't acknowledge a program exists if I only know about it from a third party source.

It's like dealing with the mafia.

Fortunately their notes are now proof of the program's existence (even though they redacted the name of the program or some other reference to it that I can't see), so hopefully I can finally make some headway.

They've been lying about all kinds of issues for years, or simply "ignoring" them until lawsuits came along. If mainstream media caught wind of these things, they'd just say that these incidents were happening in a very limited amount of cases, which is not true.

Some examples: i7 CPU's overheating, GPU's in BTO iMac's causes a system freeze, iPhone antennagate, blue/green blob on screen, wear on MacBook's screen coating, battery issues, GPU's breaking, iOS collecting and storing GPS data, iOS keeping screenshots of home screens, plastic iPhone cases cracking, screen burn-in's, random system reboots on OSX, etc. There's countless instances of these things happening, and it would take either the news reporting on it or massive lawsuits until Apple would start to act, and many times Apple would make excuses, and say that either the product is being used incorrectly or the issue is occurring in a limited amount of devices. In some cases issues would go unanswered for a year or more. It's really naive at this point to think that Apple can do no wrong.

 

[sofila]

Hey, that's my shtick!

Apple cycle of dealing with issues


Here's the typical cycle for problems reported on Apple products:
1. A few members post reports of the problem, report it to Apple
2. No response from Apple
3. Increased number of people report the issue
4. No response from Apple
5. Apple apologists dismiss the reports as very rare, the result of trolling, or exaggeration by drama queens
6. Even more reports of the problem
7. No response from Apple
8. News of the problem hits blogs
9. Apple apologists dismiss the blogs as simply engaging in clickbait
10. No response from Apple
11. Those affected by the issue threaten a class-action lawsuit
12. Apple apologists decry the "sue happy" nature of American consumers
13. Apple acknowledges the legitimacy of the problem
14. Apple apologists are silent
15. Apple release an update to correct the problem
or
15. They set up a "program" to address the problem.
16. Apple gains some positive publicity
17. Apple apologists applaud Apple for doing the "right thing". (for an issue that they said from day-1 was not actually an issue)
18. First hand experience with the “program” reveals very strict guidelines and restrictions that greatly reduce the number of affected customers that can participate in the program.

May I disagree on:
14. Apple apologists are silent.
Nope.
Never happens.

 

[rezenclowd3]

Really, how many of Apples laptops since the Intel change have NOT had catastrophic dGPU problems. Damn near all of them.

Horrors of running Apples VST (Video Systems Test) to only tell the cx that their MLB failed again, and apple will give them back the same problematic design. Same thing Apple will do with my piss poor 2018 MBP TB Top Case despite going in 4 times.

Apple cx service is a joke. Have so many cx come into my shop for full computer. The Apple store tells them they need a backup, so they can install Big Sur then restore the data. Apple UnGeniuses: you end up with the same problem you fools! Solution: backup, upgrade drive if possible, if not offload data AND setup a backup for the ofloaded data. If computer does not boot, it's still easy, just a few more steps, but Apple loves to reload problems.

 

[Maconplasma]

One of my iMac threads vanished (re: dark marks appearing on the screen) — so it's nothing new for them.

My cousin works at Apple HQ and he says rants are not allowed on Apple Support forums. They don’t delete posts asking for help but they said often people are ranting and it’s against their forum policy. To be honest I close my ears to rants too. People just want to mouth off loudly and don’t take any part of of the blame for certain issues such as when a customer cracks their own screen. They know it’s their fault but they rant on Apple Support forums and push all blame towards Apple just to get a free repair and honestly I can’t respect that type of behavior from customers. It causes the prices to hike up if they get away with it.

 

[farmboy]

Imagine spending the premium that Apple products demand only to get something that is no better than a cheap off the shelf Asus. I'd be furious. Shame on Apple. Yes, every company probably does this sort of shady **** but they are not Apple. Apple are supposed to be better than this. They charge a premium for their products and there should be zero chance of this type of thing with them.

Right, Mike....tell us when you can manufacture millions of a product containing a thousand parts with zero defects from Day 1 to EOL. It does not ever happen in any product in any industry. That's why there are warranties.

I don't know where the failure arose here, might have been design, QA-QC, manufacturing, raw material supplier, etc. My personal and business policy is "fix the problem and minimize the potential for recurrence". Apple sometimes shoots itself in the foot with their recalcitrance towards fixing a problem. I would do it differently. In a corporation the size of Apple, sometimes I think there are too many people making ill-considered deviations from an effective customer relations policy.

 

[MBAir2010]

Apple community forums always delete my posts about the MacBook air 2010 running Mojave
and
setting a screwdriver on the logic board to start a broken MacBook.
while Dell forums deletes the word "baseball"

 

[1262385]

Apple would never pull this prank under the last Honcho

Except they did. Ask anyone who had the mid-late 00’s MacBook Pros that had a GPU with faulty thermal paste that would eventually make the discrete GPU unusable.

 

[Val-kyrie]

They lie through their teeth.

I'm not sure if anyone remembers staingate. But I paid for a repair to the display during that period. I only found out about the unannounced internal display program more recently which was never made public.

I talked to their Tier 2 support requesting a refund given that I had paid for the repair during the period the repairs should have been covered. They denied up and down that there was ever any repair program. I could only refer them to sources like Macrumors etc which reported on the internal program, which they said they could not accept.

So, I requested all of my AppleCare documents from Apple (which you can do through privacy.apple.com).

It took them two months to get me the records because initially they don't send you AppleCare notes--you have to appeal to get those and it takes a really long time.

In the AppleCare records the person I spoke to in their notes referred to the internal program multiple times that she told me did not exist. She also documented that she could not accept sources like Macrumors.

So they know it exists, even mention the program in their notes (part of it is redacted), and then tell you that they can't acknowledge a program exists if I only know about it from a third party source.

It's like dealing with the mafia.

Fortunately their notes are now proof of the program's existence (even though they redacted the name of the program or some other reference to it that I can't see), so hopefully I can finally make some headway.

You would also be entitled to interest on what you paid Apple.

 

[Maconplasma]

I am so happy i invested in my Dell XPS 13'
instead of getting an Iphone SE, or an iTouch with a homepod mini this week.
Apple thinks they are bigger than us.

Dell has so many problems with their stuff. Often they put out new laptops with a multitude of issues. I’ve seen so much crap coming from Dell. You’re giving Dell too much undeserved credit.

 

[Maconplasma]

RELAX!
Steve tried to remedy the iPhone 4 and suggested that the hold the phone better THAT month
and these iphones were still new in development.

Steve did not hide behind political correctness awareness movements while apple users got screwed buying rather expensive laptops that did not work as promised. these laptops had decades of development and was a step down in performance since 2012.

you also forgot how much i should "educatedings myselfs should be"!

WOW! That’s a ton of Jobs/Apple defense there. Are you listening to yourself? You’re defending Jobs explaining to hold the phone better because the phone is new in development? What the??? Or maybe Jobs shouldn’t be putting out product until it’s ready. The rest of your entire post is just as bad.

Oh wait! I get it. This is an April Fools Joke. Oh good cuz I thought you were really in high defense for Apple. I see you were just kidding because that post was the most ridiculous one I’ve seen ever.

 

[Maconplasma]

Imagine spending the premium that Apple products demand only to get something that is no better than a cheap off the shelf Asus. I'd be furious. Shame on Apple. Yes, every company probably does this sort of shady **** but they are not Apple. Apple are supposed to be better than this. They charge a premium for their products and there should be zero chance of this type of thing with them.

Ah so all other companies get a pass for knowingly putting out crap. Now I know for sure this place has an agenda against Apple. SMH.