Apple Launches New Nationwide Racial Equity and Justice Initiative Projects

[sideshowuniqueuser]

You know what : just bring real universal healthcare to your country similar to France, Japan, Italy, etc.., and at least 30% of your social issues will be solved overnight without the constant need to begging for donations from rich corporations. It’s all related. When people are constantly at risk of becoming homeless because they ( or their children) have fallen sick, it creates all sorts of tensions within society.
Also, free education.

peace.

Let's face it, this initiative by Apple is more about marketing then real change. To get free, quality, state funded education and health like much of the rest of the western world has, you need to have taxes. Apple doesn't like paying taxes, and will go to great extremes to avoid them.

 

[mrhick01]

There's always that possibility but looks around at your co-workers. Are they always the best fit for their jobs? They got their jobs through cronyism, nepotism and opportunities afforded to their family or community that others didn't have. It's not much different than going to a typical Asian restaurant. Just because it's become what we expect to see doesn't make it right or fair for everyone.

Too many people look at these issues strictly upon matters of skin color, hence the pearl clutching with bouts of feigned outrage and resentment.

It's less an issue of human beings with melanin content (being given "free" stuff) versus America's history of what they did to people who held that melanin content. That's the special sauce.

Beyond slavery. Jim Crow apartheid. Convict leasing. Land theft. Unceasing domestic terrorism. Generationally being locked out of opportunity and denial of wealth writ large (numerous anecdotes of individual successes, but the plural of anecdote is not data). Redlining via government fiat.

The United States has only been an ostensible democratic republic for 53 years, and the ethnic group (not using the societal concoction of "race") which have been the one to show America a mirror and confront its hypocrises, are a group that have collectively been locked of the full range of American possibility. If a person is stabbed with a nine-inch wound, pulling the knife out six inches, or even completely (1964 Civil Rights Act/1965 Voting Right Act/1968 Fair Housing Act) has done nothing to address the wound. And yes, that includes "welfare," a national program for all poor and impoverished people.

Apple, as a private corporation, have expressed concern over America's realities and have offered to provide a targeted outreach to a marginalized cohort of Americans. This is far more than about skin color. This is about equity and justice.

 

[djlythium]

I was really hoping today's announcement would be a new AppleCard+ that allows us to pay for products in woke points. After-all its the new currency.

Huh, Woke Commodities. 🤔 Seems like a volatile market.

 

[0924487]

Don't like the word equity ...

I shall seek equity with Tim’s piggyback 🥳

 

[Ethosik]

...Which leads into @xWhiplash's point about "What will this eventually lead to as a white male? Get passed over for jobs even if I have more skills and experience?" The short answer is: yes, it might. The long answer is: there is a high probability that you having 'more skills and experience' is due to a long history of preference for Whites that has led to systematic positive-prejudice to help Whites. Businesses may be more willing to invest in someone with a bit less experience, but has a different perspective than the White Heteropatriarchic status quo, because they want fresh ideas.

I am sorry, but this is a bit ridiculous. You should ONLY EVER hire someone based on their resume and experience. Not just due to race/religion/political/sex/gender.

I don't see how having more skills and experience is inherently racial. There are definitely better software developers than me that are not white males.

It is a VERY slippery slope, and it will essentially lead to white males being crapped on when INSTEAD we need to do what people are WANTING - equality. How is it equal if a white male with MORE experience and MORE skills gets overlooked for a job JUST BECAUSE another candidate is a different race? There should be NO OTHER factor in hiring someone other than their resume and experience. This is not equality anymore. But I guess equality to the US means anything BUT white males anymore.

And sure you can hire someone with less experience/shorter resume if they are proven to be a forward thinker and your business could benefit. But you cannot sit here and say my argument is wrong. How does "equality" mean "hiring people based on race" (which means not hiring a white candidate). Like I said - race/religion/political/sex/gender should NOT be ANY consideration when hiring for jobs. You look at the resume, have interviews and base your decision on the candidate - not the qualities mentioned earlier.

 

[Ethosik]

I am always staggered by Apple in this regard.

All the talk and the various people they show in the adverts buying their products.
And yet you take a look at Apple's own top people on their website:

I am not sure what you are stating with this picture. Are you saying, Jeff Williams for example, should NOT be COO JUST because he is white male? Even though he has the correct experience and skills to be COO for Apple, its just a NOPE JUST because he is white male?

 

[redcaptrickster]

So all the more reason for said projects. I’ll discard any conspiracy theories that the racial mix changes deliberately in upper ranks as hog wash.

And you should probably get a job somewhere that's a little more "corporate" than McDonald's. Tech is and always has been a white boys game.

 

[Ethosik]

And you should probably get a job somewhere that's a little more "corporate" than McDonald's. Tech is and always has been a white boys game.

That is certainly not true. Indian/Indian Americans are quite common in the tech industry. Heck look at the CEO of Microsoft now and doing an AMAZING job IMO.

 

[Ubuntu]

This is great to see! As a brown person it’s also nice to finally be acknowledged. Don’t get me wrong, the treatment of black people (especially in America) is much worse but all the equality talk has quite literally been black and white.

 

[djlythium]

I am sorry, but this is a bit ridiculous. You should ONLY EVER hire someone based on their resume and experience. Not just due to race/religion/political/sex/gender.

I don't see how having more skills and experience is inherently racial. There are definitely better software developers than me that are not white males.

It is a VERY slippery slope, and it will essentially lead to white males being crapped on when INSTEAD we need to do what people are WANTING - equality. How is it equal if a white male with MORE experience and MORE skills gets overlooked for a job JUST BECAUSE another candidate is a different race? There should be NO OTHER factor in hiring someone other than their resume and experience. This is not equality anymore. But I guess equality to the US means anything BUT white males anymore.

And sure you can hire someone with less experience/shorter resume if they are proven to be a forward thinker and your business could benefit. But you cannot sit here and say my argument is wrong. How does "equality" mean "hiring people based on race" (which means not hiring a white candidate). Like I said - race/religion/political/sex/gender should NOT be ANY consideration when hiring for jobs. You look at the resume, have interviews and base your decision on the candidate - not the qualities mentioned earlier.

To be clear: I definitely agree with pretty much you say here. I'm actually an advocate for no names / identifying info on resumes to get at exactly what you're saying: quals should matter for job. "There should be NO OTHER factor in hiring someone other than their resume and experience. This is not equality anymore." Again, I totally agree, but this is not the reality of our society. We like to think people are chosen based on their merit; however, sadly, this is not as widespread as we might hope. In fact, it's a pretty big issue, and this is where the 'myth of meritocracy' is derived (and gets even more complex!).

"How does "equality" mean "hiring people based on race"" <- I'm not sure how you derived that from my post, but I suspect it might be from when I said "...initiatives to help historically-oppressed peoples are not actually stomping on the historically-privileged, but rather equalizing the playing field." Please allow me to clarify: historically-oppressed people are far less likely to have the resources (e.g., income, healthcare, daily life, time to study, etc.) to develop the skills and qualifications that can make them competitive for higher-paying jobs. It's like some privileged folks getting to run with nice shoes, while others are stuck with 3rd generation hand-me-downs that barely have any tread left. When I said 'equalizing' the playing field, I meant everyone having the same type of shoes, and track surface, and coaching, and...

BUT wait, there's more! 😄 This is just speaking about 'equality'. In fact, I prefer 'equity', which has a sense of fairness and proportionality to it. Here's an example: among school districts in National data, there's some evidence that higher-income students, and White students (who are far more likely to be higher-income) perform better than lower-income and/or non-White students. If we give all school districts equal income, we might think all students would succeed similarly, yeah? That's equality. The issue with this is it ignores important context: generations of folks (across the racial/ethnic landscape, for sure, but predominantly non-White) who've not been able to achieve similar educational and income achievements as historically-privileged communities (predominantly White). So, to be fair, those historically-oppressed communities may need a greater investment (not taking money from historically-privileged communities, mind you; they get the same funding they've been receiving) in the short-term in order to help those students 'catch up' to a level of education privileged folk are used to. Make sense? So, "having more skills and experience is inherently racial..." because some racial groups (namely, Whites) have, historically, had better... well, everything, than non-White folks. A history of oppression makes skillsets and qualifications racial.

Happy to chat more!

 

[Karma*Police]

I applaud Apple’s intentions, but they just don’t get it. As a minority, I’m offended. What they’re doing is blatantly racist. They should be offering money, education, and support to all people in need, regardless of race, sex or ethnicity. That’s the true meaning of equality.

If Tim Cook were really a fan of MLK, he would be taking a very different approach. After all, it’s MLK who said "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character."

People need to stop this insanity of trying to force equality and diversity. As Thomas Sowell pointed out, if 2 kids with the same parents have very different outcomes, how can we as a society expect everyone to have the same outcomes?? It’s madness!

* Morgan Freeman, Denzel Washington and others on racism
* Black Americans failed by good intentions
* Where’s the proof of systemic racism?

 

[Krizoitz]

this sounds like you are making up handicaps and applying it naively across the board. What if someone started ahead because of the work they put in beforehand? That doesn’t really seem “fair”

I’m not putting in handicaps I’m acknowledging the ones that already exist. The economic and systemic disadvantages minorities face are facts. They are independently verifiable, supported by evidence. They exist and are real.
Are they the only disadvantages an individual may face? No.
Are there people of color who have advantages (such as money or connections) that a white person might not? Yes.
However, when taken as a whole there are far fewer situations that exist for minorities then there are for the white majority.
Nothing Apple is doing here is taking away from opportunities people might already have or the work they do. What Apple is doing is providing more opportunities to groups of people who currently have less of them. They are creating environments to overcome systematic disadvantages and allow talent and hard work to be the primary differentiating factors. The only people who have something to lose in such a situation are the ones who have succeeded not on their merits, but due systematic advantages and institutional (and individual) bigotry.
If you are a hard working and/or talented white engineer, you will still be able to succeed. Apples approach isn’t changing that. If you truly believe in success through hard work and merit, this is not a threat to you. If you view it as a threat then you need to consider that you were never in favor of merit to begin with, you simply liked benefiting for the system as it was.

 

[Krizoitz]

You are arguing for anti-poverty measures and not specifically anti-racism measures, though poverty is definitely a symptom of systemic racism, racism isn't the only cause of poverty and it is a disease that stretches across racial lines.

No, I was making an analogy using pay as one example.

 

[Krizoitz]

I applaud Apple’s intentions, but they just don’t get it. As a minority, I’m offended. What they’re doing is blatantly racist. They should be offering money, education, and support to all people in need, regardless of race, sex or ethnicity. That’s the true meaning of equality.

It is not racist. Systematic racism exists. Until it is addressed it will continue to exist. You can’t fight it by ignoring it, you have to look at its causes and look at what you can do to undo those systems. Providing additional opportunities to minorities who currently have fewer opportunities than their white counter parts is how you do that. You address the big problems first then you can move on to the smaller ones.

If Tim Cook were really a fan of MLK, he would be taking a very different approach.

Given that Cook is working directly with the King family I’m going to suggest you not try and say what MLK would or wouldn’t want, the people who knew him directly almost certainly have a better idea than you do.

 

[_Refurbished_]

I guess I can find some humor in Apple trying to support racial equality and opportunity while literally supporting slavery, politically and financially, in another country.

If Apple truly cared about people, they would build their own damn factories. Imagine if being “woke” was cancelling the inadequate Chinese facilities. They won’t be “woke” about their slave storms until it’s been deemed unacceptable by the general public.

 

[Black Belt]

I’m wonder how Apple plans to measure success.

Whether they feels good

 

[Black Belt]

I guess I can find some humor in Apple trying to support racial equality and opportunity while literally supporting slavery, politically and financially, in another country.

And engaging in Chinese style censorship on American shores. A stark contrast from Steve Jobs who didn’t use Apple as a political hammer

 

[Black Belt]

I’m not against these efforts by any means but isn’t supporting what are essentially black only schools and facilities the opposite of equality? Sometimes it feels like we are going backwards.

The goal of progressives is regressive

 

[Merode]

It is not racist. Systematic racism exists. Until it is addressed it will continue to exist. You can’t fight it by ignoring it, you have to look at its causes and look at what you can do to undo those systems. Providing additional opportunities to minorities who currently have fewer opportunities than their white counter parts is how you do that. You address the big problems first then you can move on to the smaller ones.


Given that Cook is working directly with the King family I’m going to suggest you not try and say what MLK would or wouldn’t want, the people who knew him directly almost certainly have a better idea than you do.

To fight systemic racism you suggest more systemic racism needs to be introduced? This time targeting whites so nobody feels left out? Given that families of famous people usually will do anything to scramble some coin, I'd bet we should trust MLK's own words instead. If I was black I'd seriously be offended. You white Americans literally treat them like puppies that need to be taken care of.

Instead of focusing on such useless initiatives (literally spillin some coin) American governement and corporations should really work on:
1. Eliminating poverty and multi-children families. This is greater than any other factor affecting children's success.
2. Reducing home violence and broken/divorced families. This is also a greater factor affecting children's success than their skin color.
3. Giving same education possibilites for all children. No matter skin color or wallet size.

You just make sure poor kids (no matter what ethnicity) have food, roof and parents. They don't lack anything and have access to school and it would fix most of your social issues withing a couple decades. The path you're taking will only lead to more divisions.

 

[Krizoitz]

To fight systemic racism you suggest more systemic racism needs to be introduced? This time targeting whites so nobody feels left out?

In order to fight systematic racism you need to address the flaws in the system that perpetuate it. One of those flaws is lack of equal opportunities for minorities. Creating more opportunities to help bring them to an equal level is NOT "more systematic racism". Whites are not being "targeted", they simply aren't being catered to with even MORE opportunities.

Lets say there is a game where each person gets a chance to shoot a basketball from the free throw line. White people get 10 shots. Minorities get 5 shots. The winner is whoever scores the most points. Can a black person beat a white person at this game? Yes, but that doesn't mean its a fair game. A fair game would be one where everyone gets the same amount of shots. Apple is giving minorities more shots. Thats not racism. Thats undoing racism. Thats trying to make the game closer to equal.

I'd bet we should trust MLK's own words instead.

Taking his words out of context, assuming your understand his words by citing a single quote, ignoring the people who knew him and worked with him and fought the battle along side him? Again, I'm going to go with they know more about what he would want then you do.

If I was black I'd seriously be offended. You white Americans literally treat them like puppies that need to be taken care of.

So you are neither black nor American, suggesting you lack any first hand knowledge about this.
Second, you presume to know my skin color based on forum posts. My icon is a f***ing dolphin. You have no idea what my racial background is.
Third, giving people opportunities after they have been oppressed for centuries is not "treating them like puppies". No one is talking about handing black people (or any other people) jobs they are unqualified for. Its about making sure they have opportunities EQUAL to other peoples. That they have the chance to learn the skills, and then succeed or fail based on their merits. But go ahead, take a poll. Ask a large number of black people in America whether they are for or against this. Based on what I know of previous efforts like this, I can guarantee you that the vast majority welcome it. They don't feel like they are "puppies" because they aren't being treated that way. They want the CHANCE to learn, the CHANCE to work hard and succeed, the CHANCE to have the same opportunities as white people.

Eliminating poverty and multi-children families. This is greater than any other factor affecting children's success.

I'm sorry, did you seriously just suggest a better option would be preventing people from having multiple children? Are you kidding me? Wow....

And "eliminating poverty". Yeah, why don't we declare world peace while we are at it. Measures like these are specifically meant to help achieve that lofty goal by giving minorities the opportunity to join higher paying jobs. To have opportunities to raise themselves, their families and their communities out of poverty. You have to build equitable SYSTEMS in order to eliminate systematic racism and systematic poverty. But no, rather than actual practical solutions you want them to just "eliminate poverty" and implement some China level one-child BS. Holy hell dude. That is MESSED UP.

 

[Krizoitz]

The goal of progressives is regressive

This is something that is literally impossible.

 

[SchrodingersMartian]

As someone who is an Gay Black Guy who works in tech for the other largest company that is not Apple without revealing what it is. On hand someones Sexuality or Race or Perceived disability should not be an major factor in hiring someone and skills matter.

The other piece is that if you have someone who is qualified and is non white and skilled that is a factor to take into consideration because someone who is white can never get that simply because kids who skills who are growing up want to see people who reflect them in the job they want.

This is a big reason why it's important that there are more people of color enrolled in STEM classes and astronauts and because a lot of times if people do not see themselves reflected in a role or path in life they want even though they are skilled for it they may never try.

A white person can never understand that and not trying to be rude because in most boardrooms, labs, space ships there has always been someone white there. I think this investment in Detroit and HBCU's are going to be great because it is going to benefit everyone.

Truth be told I still get chills sometimes when I have to go on camera for a meeting as no one else there looks like me sometimes and it's hard to explain that to someone who has not been in that position.

 

[Merode]

1. What you described is the systemic racism. Right now law warrants everybody is treated the same. There's no law that states black person has less opportunities at school/work than white as your example tried to perpetrate. If some person has prejudices towards ethnicity, it's the issue with this particular person, not the system. However if there are rules that make one ethnicity get something just on the merit of skin color, it is racism.

2. That's the first thing school should teach you. To read/hear and understand. I can read or listen to what MLK said and understand it. I don't need anybody to explain it to me, it's not quantum physics.

3. I don't need to be nor: American, black, brown or you to have an opinion. I don't assume your skin color, it's irrelevant and it was my whole point. However if you want to know I use Twitter a lot and see lots of people making same points as you. You know what their avatars look like? You don't see a lot of 'POC' posting those arguments, it's mostly white men.

Yes, after centuries of oppression thos people just like any other people with bad living conditions need help. However this help should be by giving them opportunities, quite literally. Possibility to go to college (even for free), not promising them for example +10% points based on skin color. That's what's done right now, even where I live (however towards women). It's either sexist or racist, case by case. Opportunity =/= favoritism

4. Yes and that relates towards everyone everywhere. Overpopulation is real issue, not to mention in the west with regular job most people won't be able to support 3+ children and make sure they don't lack. Families with 5, 7, 10 or more kids are poverty factories. I'd post link to YT but that would be low: with black mother of 15 (15 kids, not her age) shouting somebody has to be accountable for them and pay (not meaning herself). What chance do these poor kids have?

5. Wouldn't it be better to make education free and strongly, and I mean strongly encourage education towards everyone, despite race? Make school encourage self learning and discovery?

 

[ericwn]

And you should probably get a job somewhere that's a little more "corporate" than McDonald's. Tech is and always has been a white boys game.

Disproved in the following post. Sail on.

 

[tha_man]

It's right to help those, who did not have same opportunities in life, either because of their social status or some other factor. I know schools in USA are expensive and if your familiy is, for whatever reason, not able to pay for it, you should be given an equal opportunity to achieve the same level and quality of education as everybody else.

But one factor that should not have any significance in this is race.

Yes, I know not long time ago, white people in USA had much better opportunities, which gives many of them advantage also today, because they achieved better social status.

But doing the same thing nowdays (just in other direction) will not help making things better.

Video that was linked at the beginning of this thread is a pretty good example (here it is again: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4K5fbQ1-zps ).

People that stayed at the back were of all colors. Yes, the percentage of minorities are higher, but that is not because those kids are black. It's because their parents and grandparents actually had disadvantage in life because of their race, and this still has impact. But those white kids in the back are in the same situation, just for different reasons.


I'm sure nowdays, everybody, no matter what race, has the same opportunity, if they are of a comparable social status. Unless the person who is hiring for a job or in a school is actually racist. There certainly still are many of those and if you ask me, they should be found and removed from such positions, because they are not qualified for the job.

But giving people a head start based on their race will not help make this better. I'm afraid it might actually have the opposite effect.