Apple Launches 'Touch Disease' Repair Program for iPhone 6 Plus

[kdarling]

Since the iPhone 6 is so old now, any speculation if apple is making a profit by charging people $150 for repairs?

At the least, it seems that it could be a self-funding "repair program".

Apple wants $150 to swap a non-working phone for a refurbished one. The non-working one needs to be otherwise in good shape. This allows Apple to refurb the non-working phone, and swap it to someone else. And so on, and so forth.

With what looks like up to millions of bad phones involved, they would need to set up such a refurb program in order to provide enough older model iPhone 6 swap units.

--

So the question is, how much does it cost Apple to refurb a Touch Disease phone.

First, all refurbs get a new battery (~$4) and back case (~$10 ?).

Now, if a new touchscreen chip is soldered on the same board, that could cost Apple probably $30 with labor. An entirely new circuit board is likely to cost Apple about $60.

Heck, retail to do all this in some parts of the US, is around $150. I think it'd be very generous to say it costs Apple even $100 to do the same. Likely much less, which means it makes a tidy profit. Or let's drink the Kool-Aid and go crazy and say it costs a very unlikely $150, at which point it's simply self-sustaining.

Contrary calculations welcome.

 

[ChinkyBob]

There are no reports of new iPhone 6 exhibiting the issue. It is important to distinguish that. If you go to the Apple Store and ask for a replacement, you usually are getting a "refurbished" unit. These may exhibit the issue but would also still be covered by warranty.

There are examples of this happening with brand new models whilst being setup in the Apple store.
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Plenty of Apple critics claim Apple is greedy simply because they have selected 40% as their margin target. Gents, this allows them to have a healthy R&D expense, plenty of engineering expertise, massive new project initiatives, and of course error correction ability.

This issue whatever it is is being addressed by Apple with a process that is repeatable across many units worldwide. Whether it is user induced or an engineering defect, it may be both, is not important. The fact it is being addressed is.

At least they are not catching fire and taking down lots of personal property in the process.

Tell that to the Australian guy whose iPhone 7 burnt out his car while he surfed on the beach. At least Samsung owns up to defects, at its cost. Apple does not.

 

[Sedulous]

There are examples of this happening with brand new models whilst being setup in the Apple store.
[doublepost=1480206307][/doublepost]
Tell that to the Australian guy whose iPhone 7 burnt out his car while he surfed on the beach. At least Samsung owns up to defects, at its cost. Apple does not.

Examples of refurb... Apple doesn't supply new phones with AppleCare swaps.

 

[ChinkyBob]

Hmm, I would venture, it's used to keep Irish economic ministers and their staff happy

Seriously though, Apple "borrows" billions of $$$ against its offshore wealth by issuing bonds for things like share buybacks.
Borrowing costs are creatively offset against state-side profits to minimize tax burden. Same game many big companies play.

Maybe if interest rates go up this practice will stop, but without a deal thru Congress, Apple won't be on-shoring any overseas profits anytime soon.

On the other note, Apple profit margins on services is more like 60% and if they'd have put all those additional billions into R&D, you'd think we'd have better products to show for. Instead, Apple's getting out of Displays, Mac Minis, Pros, and whatever other higher cost/low-margin/low-revenue-share products they've been involved with in the past.

Apple hasn't paid any tax in Ireland yet as its registered companies are all P.O. boxes with zero staff. If a smaller company dodged tax like this people would be in jail.

Anyway, Apple is putting its eggs in one basket with iPhone. Its other products are just lost.
[doublepost=1480207104][/doublepost]

Examples of refurb... Apple doesn't supply new phones with AppleCare swaps.

NEW phones being setup have exhibited the issue too, mentioned on this thread many moons ago, not just replacement refurbs.

 

[Sedulous]

Apple hasn't paid any tax in Ireland yet as its registered companies are all P.O. boxes with zero staff. If a smaller company dodged tax like this people would be in jail.

Anyway, Apple is putting its eggs in one basket with iPhone. Its other products are just lost.
[doublepost=1480207104][/doublepost]
NEW phones being setup have exhibited the issue too, mentioned on this thread many moons ago, not just replacement refurbs.

Really? Fairly sure that is not the case. There were posts about people swapping a defective phone for a replacement that exhibited TD™ "out of the box". Apple Stores do not provide new phones in these situations. They are always refurbished.

Apple HAS paid Ireland whatever tax Ireland was owed. Likewise, Apple does operate a comparatively large office in Ireland. It isn't a PO box that somebody pops in once a week to check.

Yes, most of Apple's product lines are a confused mess. That is a different thread.

 

[ChinkyBob]

Well

Really? Fairly sure that is not the case. There were posts about people swapping a defective phone for a replacement that exhibited TD™ "out of the box". Apple Stores do not provide new phones in these situations. They are always refurbished.

Apple HAS paid Ireland whatever tax Ireland was owed. Likewise, Apple does operate a comparatively large office in Ireland. It isn't a PO box that somebody pops in once a week to check.

Yes, most of Apple's product lines are a confused mess. That is a different thread.

I believe that new ones were exhibiting the same behaviour, bot just just refurbs, but I can't be arsed to go thru the threads.
Wrt tax, last year Apple paid 0.005% tax on profits in Ireland. In 2014 in the UK they paid No tax at all (declared a loss ) and in 2015 they declared 2 billion dollar Profit in UK and paid 11m in tax, or 0.5%. Apple thinks that's ok. The EU however declared that they believe tax evasion is going on with multiple dodgy Ltd companies registered in Ireland with no staff or physical office (in addition to their actual office ) all set up with the sole intention of avoiding tax. Tax avoidance isn't a crime, but tax evasion is. That is why the EU ordered Apple to pay 16billion euro to Irish govt.

 

[C DM]

Tell that to the Australian guy whose iPhone 7 burnt out his car while he surfed on the beach. At least Samsung owns up to defects, at its cost. Apple does not.

A random case or two does not for a defect make. A pattern does. Pretty sure Samsung didn't really "own up" to anything until there was something there beyond a few random cases here or there.

 

[Sedulous]

Well

I believe that new ones were exhibiting the same behaviour, bot just just refurbs, but I can't be arsed to go thru the threads.
Wrt tax, last year Apple paid 0.005% tax on profits in Ireland. In 2014 in the UK they paid No tax at all (declared a loss ) and in 2015 they declared 2 billion dollar Profit in UK and paid 11m in tax, or 0.5%. Apple thinks that's ok. The EU however declared that they believe tax evasion is going on with multiple dodgy Ltd companies registered in Ireland with no staff or physical office (in addition to their actual office ) all set up with the sole intention of avoiding tax. Tax avoidance isn't a crime, but tax evasion is. That is why the EU ordered Apple to pay 16billion euro to Irish govt.

Nor can I be bothered to go through thread again. But I recall reading a few posts where people returned to the Apple Store with defective phone and got a "new" phone. Those are refurbs. Chances are Apple doesn't check that carefully and missed the issue on the refurb phone. If it is indeed caused by flexing induced solder cracking, it might be intermittent and progressively worsening over time. I'm not making excuses for Apple. It was a bad choice to make the phone so thin that it was structurally unsound and then also skip using underfill on the IC.

As for Apple's EU taxes, your issue should be with the EU tax structure allowing for "loopholes". I view this the same as international trade agreements. Of course companies are going to take advantage of whatever offers the most profit. It is absurd that the EU is retroactively seeking taxes that were not legally owed. It would be like the USA seeking reimbursement for all the taxes not paid because of NAFTA. Of course manufacturers were going to move industry to Mexico if labor is cheaper/less regulated and the tariff (tax) penalty is removed. But NAFTA allows for it so that is how it is. If the law isn't working as intended then fix the law.

 

[akash.nu]

Nor can I be bothered to go through thread again. But I recall reading a few posts where people returned to the Apple Store with defective phone and got a "new" phone. Those are refurbs. Chances are Apple doesn't check that carefully and missed the issue on the refurb phone. If it is indeed caused by flexing induced solder cracking, it might be intermittent and progressively worsening over time. I'm not making excuses for Apple. It was a bad choice to make the phone so thin that it was structurally unsound and then also skip using underfill on the IC.

As for Apple's EU taxes, your issue should be with the EU tax structure allowing for "loopholes". I view this the same as international trade agreements. Of course companies are going to take advantage of whatever offers the most profit. It is absurd that the EU is retroactively seeking taxes that were not legally owed. It would be like the USA seeking reimbursement for all the taxes not paid because of NAFTA. Of course manufacturers were going to move industry to Mexico if labor is cheaper/less regulated and the tariff (tax) penalty is removed. But NAFTA allows for it so that is how it is. If the law isn't working as intended then fix the law.

From a lot of previous tax related posts I've gathered that generally people have no clue how corporation tax works. They just compare it with individual income tax.

 

[toph2toast]

Yes I am far more likely to believe a major company with a long history of reliability over random people yelling on the internet. I'm frankly shocked people think that's surprising.

Making me more likely to no believe these same people yelling on the internet are the way they attack anyone who doesn't immediately agree with them that Apple is a terrible monster.

If you want someone to believe what you say, attacking them when they express doubt is not a good strategy.

Hey, remember that time you said Apple has a long history of reliability? Here's another one for ya

https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...mers-who-paid-for-imac-hinge-repairs.2018468/

Apple made the consumer pay for the repairs, and only now have they decided to refund those people...

 

[Jerryrigged]

Is this at all related to the "I can't answer phone calls anymore" problem that I've been having. Seems to be that my 6Plus has been working GREAT right up until iOS 10. Then suddenly I can't answer phone calls. Try to 'swipe to answer', and screen is completely unresponsive. I can answer calls on my Apple Watch if I'm in a suitably private environment, but otherwise I just have to call back. Once the phone stops ringing, everything is once again working. Related to touch disease?

 

[toph2toast]

Is this at all related to the "I can't answer phone calls anymore" problem that I've been having. Seems to be that my 6Plus has been working GREAT right up until iOS 10. Then suddenly I can't answer phone calls. Try to 'swipe to answer', and screen is completely unresponsive. I can answer calls on my Apple Watch if I'm in a suitably private environment, but otherwise I just have to call back. Once the phone stops ringing, everything is once again working. Related to touch disease?

I think that's a bug and not a hardware issue (based on what I've read). I had the same issue on my phone as well, it was incredibly annoying. Since the touchscreen is only un-responsive for that specific scenario, I don't know if what would be intermittent, unless you just have bad luck .

 

[profets]

Well, I received this email for a device that I had paid to do an out of warranty replacement on:

The link to request refund just points to generic apple support, who you have to call. Takes a bit to get an advisor on that can actually help you, and then at their end, they have what seems like dozens of steps to go through. They put together a lot of documentation, get approvals from multiple departments (not exaggerating, the rep must have gotten approval from 5 departments while I was on), submits everything and then says I'll receive a call in 2 business days with an update. All of it being transparent to the user seems a bit crazy.

They were able to automate it to the point where I received an email as they knew I had spent money on an out of warranty repair which was part of this program, and it explains that I should be refunded the difference. Could they not just go one step further and automate the refund as well?

 

[charlituna]

Apple should offer a free repair.

Because it's a design defect.
And we know it's a defect.

except that they have had tons of phones turned in over the issue and they can see if there are additional issues, like bends.

they have tested these phones and they don't just bend. if you stick it in your pocket and sit on it, that's not a design defect. not unless Apple designed your butt. and they are saying that that is the issue.

and that's what they are sticking with until someone proves they are full of crap and sues them
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Admitting it yet while charging $149 doesn't really seem like admitting it.

actually the verbiage is the not admitting. it kicks off with basically saying "we have found that phones that folks drop and bend get F'd up" which is the very opposite of admitting to a design issue. they are all but saying they are doing this cause they are sick of folks whining about messing up their phones

 

[Phoenixx]

Unbelievable! 2017 will be the year to try other ecosystems.

Yeah, Apple just don't seem to realise the likely consequences of what they are doing. At best people will begrudgingly pay the $149 and abandon the iPhone the next time they upgrade, at worst, there will be a MASSIVE class action lawsuit and a very large amount of negative publicity.

 

[profets]

except that they have had tons of phones turned in over the issue and they can see if there are additional issues, like bends.

they have tested these phones and they don't just bend. if you stick it in your pocket and sit on it, that's not a design defect. not unless Apple designed your butt. and they are saying that that is the issue.

and that's what they are sticking with until someone proves they are full of crap and sues them
[doublepost=1481774876][/doublepost]

actually the verbiage is the not admitting. it kicks off with basically saying "we have found that phones that folks drop and bend get F'd up" which is the very opposite of admitting to a design issue. they are all but saying they are doing this cause they are sick of folks whining about messing up their phones

The phone I had it happened to wasn't bent at all, nor was it dropped. It was actually a replacement phone from Apple from earlier in the year.

"Until someone proves they are full of crap and sues them" - Really? And how do you suppose someone goes about doing that?

One shouldn't have to disprove their claim. They should have to show proof of theirs, which they don't. They've making the assumption here.

Anyway, at $150 for the replacement, I'm not sure its worth more energy to fight with Apple. Already tired of all the accusations with the bricked watch.

 

[kenmasters34]

I just bought a used Iphone 6 plus. No issues yet, but I am really upset to hear about this and Apples response.

1) IF the touch disease were caused by abuse, and not a weakness in the Iphone 6+ design.... other phones(from any manufacturer) be affected by touch disease.

IMO, its pretty crappy that they would just blame the customers

2) There are at least 4 class actions rolling around in the US/Canada. IF the issue only affected a limited amount of Iphone6+... it would have been cheaper to just fix the "few phones", rather than pay the lawyers. So the issue must affect a lot of phones.

 

[kenmasters34]

except that they have had tons of phones turned in over the issue and they can see if there are additional issues, like bends.

they have tested these phones and they don't just bend. if you stick it in your pocket and sit on it, that's not a design defect. not unless Apple designed your butt. and they are saying that that is the issue.

and that's what they are sticking with until someone proves they are full of crap and sues them
[doublepost=1481774876][/doublepost]

actually the verbiage is the not admitting. it kicks off with basically saying "we have found that phones that folks drop and bend get F'd up" which is the very opposite of admitting to a design issue. they are all but saying they are doing this cause they are sick of folks whining about messing up their phones

1) The fact that the phone bends is a design flaw. Duh, people put phones in their pockets. Other manufacturers dont have a problem to the extent that the Iphone6+ has it. Other companies dont have bend problems like the Iphone6, or touch disease.

2) The Fact that "TONS" of these phones have been turned in for this issue, shows that the Iphone 6+ was not designed to withstand normal usage. AND YES that includes putting the phone in pockets.

3) Blaming the customer seems to be the norm with apple. I dont know why people think apple "Used to" have great customer service. From the Iphone4 antenna problems, to the bending phones, and now touch disease.... always the users fault for using the iphone6+ like any other cell phone, and expecting the Iphone6+ to work.

 

[sracer]

I just bought a used Iphone 6 plus. No issues yet, but I am really upset to hear about this and Apples response.

Did you know about the touch disease and Apple's response to it when you bought that used iPhone 6Plus?

 

[kenmasters34]

Did you know about the touch disease and Apple's response to it when you bought that used iPhone 6Plus?

Unfortunately I did not. The only reason I heard about touch disease, is because someone just posted a touch disease iphone on craigslist. I wouldnt have bought the iPhone6+, had I known about this.

If I were to guess.... I would say heat and flexing, in a "flexible" phone is causing the solder for the two touch ic's to become very weak over time. Based on the symptoms, I dont think these phones will last very long.

Ironically, I am coming from an LG Flex2, which is designed to be a flexible phone.... vs the IP6+ which is having major issues because its flexible.

 

[DipDog3]

Just an FYI. My out-of-warranty iPhone 6 Plus got the touch disease. Chatted with an Apple Rep and ended up mailing it back it for out-of-warranty service. Apple Rep said it would cost up to $329 to repair. Five days later they sent me a new iPhone 6 Plus (could be refurb, I can't tell). Apple didn't provide any explanation except that my iPhone could not be repaired. They didn't charge me for the replacement! So I got my touch disease iPhone replaced for free!

 

[MarvinHC]

Just an FYI. My out-of-warranty iPhone 6 Plus got the touch disease. Chatted with an Apple Rep and ended up mailing it back it for out-of-warranty service. Apple Rep said it would cost up to $329 to repair. Five days later they sent me a new iPhone 6 Plus (could be refurb, I can't tell). Apple didn't provide any explanation expect that my iPhone could not be repaired, but they didn't charge me for the replacement! So I got my touch disease iPhone replaced for free!

That's pretty sweet. Did they send you a 6+ or a 6S+?

 

[JosephAW]

Sold my iPhone 6 on Glyde and all parties were happy and it was near mint condition except original battery as noted.
Both Buyer and Seller were rated as 5 star and posted good reviews.
A week later we got a threatening message that the earpiece never worked. They said it would cost $42 to replace it at their local repair shop.
Even though it was in working order when sold I called their bluff and said: "Okay, have the repair shop fix it and send us a copy of the invoice with the matching serial number for the phone and I will call them to pay for the repair."
Never heard from them again, they were trying to get me to pay for another battery even though they knew it was the original battery when they purchased it. Arbitration at Glyde would question why they gave the seller 5 stars if the product was defective and they were unable to find a repair shop that would create a fraudulent invoice.
So always be harmless as a dove but wise as a serpent.

 

[profets]

I've come across many 6 Plus owners who have had this issue (they describe it to me, but don't understand themselves what it is). One of them has had to get theirs replaced with refurbs, and soon after the refurb starts to exhibit the same issue. After talking to an acquaintance who works in apple retail, they mentioned that this has been a very common occurrence.

 

[Val-kyrie]

I've come across many 6 Plus owners who have had this issue (they describe it to me, but don't understand themselves what it is). One of them has had to get theirs replaced with refurbs, and soon after the refurb starts to exhibit the same issue. After talking to an acquaintance who works in apple retail, they mentioned that this has been a very common occurrence.

It happened to me multiple times when I had a 6+. I had at least three refurbs, all of which exhibited touch disease. I received my last refurb on last day of my AppleCare. I sold it a week later and purchased an SE.

I learned two things: 1) I love the form factor of the SE and 2) I will never buy another high priced gen 1 product from Apple.