Apple Launching A9X-Based 12.9" iPad Pro in November for $799+

[Ploki]

[

lol that's awesome, well put. Wait I think windows RT was more advanced, at least it ran full office, could use a mouse and had a file system.

Depending on how well they implement a stylus, a mouse is actually redundant.

Also, "full office"? on OS X it works so ****** even my quad core retina barely runs full office.
I switched to Pages long ago... it takes some manual labour for creating TOCs and stuff like that, but all in all for daily stuff its more than fine.

 

[Ploki]

Sure wish it would have had a USB-C connection for Video HDMI connection, External Storage and card readers, etc. But of course that would be too functional and too similar to a MacBook.

Lightning does support SD card reader, also HDMI (not sure whats the verdict on resolution on newer devices).
External storage? Whats the point, its not like you can do much with it constrained by the OS.

 

[spinedoc77]

Seriously. I'm way more open to changing my workflow slightly than dealing with the host of nagging issues presented by the Surface Pro. It's an okay device, but some of us prefer the simplicity of the iPad and iOS. No battery issues, no sluggish software, no display scaling issues, no confused hybrid touch/mouse OS, no fan and no heat throttling. And no over-engineered kickstand. If you need the full OS or a laptop, yeah the Surface might be a better buy, but I happen to like iOS and there are tons of productive apps and more on the way I'm sure. Plus with the new multitasking features in iOS9 it's becoming a lot more functional (draw in one app with references on the side). I already have a beastly desktop workstation and a Cintiq, I don't need to duplicate all that on the go.

I call maximum BS on this, my surface pro 3 in NO way lags. I own 2 of them, one for personal use and the one I use at work drives 2 4k monitors, runs 6 or 7 programs at the same time including my EHR software which is a beast and takes a lot of power, while running a remote desktop where I see my billing, and running a couple of Dicom viewers with MRI studies open on them (memory hungry buggers) and 3 or 4 internet windows with several tabs open on each of them. NO slowdown whatsoever. Heat throttling is only present with graphic intensive activities such as gaming, although it is a valid point, especially if you like gaming. But I'll take my Skyrim on my SP3 over Angry Birds on your iPad pro.

Over engineered kickstand?!? The SP3 kickstand is easily one of the most innovative thing I've seen on a tablet, it makes me wonder why it's not standard on other tablets.

Battery, I'll give it to the iPad any day of the week. I get a solid 5 hours, maybe 6 or 7 if I play it safe, so no argument there. But there is a MASSIVE trade off in functionality, but that depends on how you use it of course. Also keep in mind we don't know what the surface pro 4 will bring, and that should be the iPad pro comparison IMO, not a year and half old tablet like the SP3.

Anyhow I'm not putting down your choice of the iPad pro, I just hate to see the surface pro put down unnecessarily. It's a complete little beast as I'm sure the iPad pro will be in it's niche with whatever works with iOS. I haven't heard if it will have mouse support, if not then I would see that as a massive disruption of my work flow, actually not a disruption but a total obliteration.

 

[farmboy]

No.... We all know that Apple sues the pants off anyone that even slightly tries to use a similar design as them. And Apple doesn't license out their patents to other companies either. Microsoft was awarded its own patents for keyboard covers. Here's the link...

http://www.computerworld.com/articl...ign-patents-for-surface--keyboard-covers.html

YES. On August 2, 2012 the USPTO issued a very lengthy patent to Apple covering many claims for their iPad cover. (20120194448). It was only after securing this patent that Apple completed, on August 13, 2012, an agreement to license a large portfolio of iOS design patents to Microsoft, in a cross licensing plan to point out to the courts and Samsung that Sansung had the opportunity to license the infringed patents and failed to do so.

Why on earth is this so hard to believe? You can find this information anywhere.

 

[spinedoc77]

I have a Surface Pro 3 (8GB RAM, i5 processor, 256GB SSD). It's a quality device for sure, but it has some significant downsides that the iPad Pro looks to do better.

It's heavy. It's not 7lbs, but it's not nearly a light as an iPad. Not something one can hold one-handed comfortably for any length of time.

Battery life. Ok for a laptop; about 4-5 hours with a bright screen. Lasts about 1/2 as long as my iPad at similar brightness.

Tablet/mobile apps. SP3 is great for full-on MS Office and other desktop apps, plus web browsing, but light/mobile apps are still seriously lacking. Pretty much everything else needs to be done in a web browser.

Finger-friendliness. Web browsing is ok, but Office isn't good without the keyboard/trackpad and a mouse. Same with the file manager. And forget trying to use Adobe Acrobat Pro. Doesn't even work correctly with the high-DPI screen (even on Win10).

These are all things the iPad Pro will start out with in spades.

There's still room for both devices IMHO.

Valid points, it's not the perfect device. Web browsing is awesome in windows 8.1 with the metro browser, but windows made an awful move nixing metro IE and introducing that piece of crap Edge browser. I have so much difficulty with it. Just today my tech support spent an hour trying to get a remote MRI viewing host on it, and at the end I walked in and told them not to use Edge. Apparently they aren't familiar with windows 10 yet.

I've also wondered why it's taking Adobe so long to make a truly decent tablet ready version of Acrobat Pro. I spend hours per day in that program but I'd never use it without a mouse. Although I must say it scales perfectly on my 4k monitor, not sure what issues you have, did you try disabling scaling in comparability settings?

 

[sudo1996]

What do people use their touch screens on the laptops actually for? I've never seen anybody actually using a touch screen on a laptop.

I've seen people use them for scrolling and occasionally web browsing, and that's about it. They'd probably use them more if more software were designed for touch-screen PCs. I'm still doubtful of the usefulness of touch screens in general, but if a big touch screen belongs anywhere, it's on the MacBook, not on a MacBook-sized iPad.

 

[spinedoc77]

[


Depending on how well they implement a stylus, a mouse is actually redundant.

Also, "full office"? on OS X it works so ****** even my quad core retina barely runs full office.
I switched to Pages long ago... it takes some manual labour for creating TOCs and stuff like that, but all in all for daily stuff its more than fine.

I suppose it depends on how you work. If you want to hunt and peck with a stylus all day long I suppose you are entitled to it. For me HELL no, I need my mouse. I couldn't see working with menus, file systems, etc with a stylus.

Your quad OSx setup barely runs full office? That's nuts, have you sent it in for warranty yet? Office in no way slows down any of my PC's, not even the literally 10 year old laptop I have in one of my back offices.

 

[spinedoc77]

I've seen people use them for scrolling and occasionally web browsing, and that's about it. They'd probably use them more if more software were designed for touch-screen PCs. I'm still doubtful of the usefulness of touch screens in general, but if a big touch screen belongs anywhere, it's on the MacBook, not on a MacBook-sized iPad.

Mainly with web browsing, I'm sitting here at my kitchen counter browsing the forums and using the touch screen in laptop mode is very intuitive.

 

[xraydoc]

Valid points, it's not the perfect device. Web browsing is awesome in windows 8.1 with the metro browser, but windows made an awful move nixing metro IE and introducing that piece of crap Edge browser. I have so much difficulty with it. Just today my tech support spent an hour trying to get a remote MRI viewing host on it, and at the end I walked in and told them not to use Edge. Apparently they aren't familiar with windows 10 yet.

I've also wondered why it's taking Adobe so long to make a truly decent tablet ready version of Acrobat Pro. I spend hours per day in that program but I'd never use it without a mouse. Although I must say it scales perfectly on my 4k monitor, not sure what issues you have, did you try disabling scaling in comparability settings?

I haven't disabled scaling because I like the sharp, high-DPI fonts in other apps. In Acrobat, some things display correctly with properly sized high-DPI fonts and other things (tools sidebar, some others - not in front of my machine at the moment) are rendered at 1:1 pixel mapping so they're very small. The mix of big and small makes the app look like total crap.

And the Metro version of Acrobat (and others, like Evernote) are total garbage. Even the iPhone versions have more functionality. Drawboard is good, but the dearth of other 'tablet' style apps for the Surface is pretty sad. I'd almost say there are more "pro" apps for iPad than "tablet" apps for the Surface Pro.

SP3 is a good laptop but bad tablet. iPad Pro is likely to be a great tablet, but missing some things on the "pro" end.

So we've not found the Jesus Machine yet.

 

[sudo1996]

Also, "full office"? on OS X it works so ****** even my quad core retina barely runs full office.
I switched to Pages long ago... it takes some manual labour for creating TOCs and stuff like that, but all in all for daily stuff its more than fine.

I don't know what you're doing... My '06 OG MacBook1,1 used to run Office fine. I eventually switched to iWork for everything except spreadsheets (since Numbers sucks), and it was more resource-efficient, but c'mon, Office works too.

 

[jrswizzle]

Seriously, what you gonna do with all this A9X power when you're limited to iOS?

What does this even mean? The OS doesn't need the power, apps do. Developers will make this device shine.

If you're waiting for Apple to release a device focused on the OS, stop waiting and buy something else. Apps are the key - they are the focus. Based on what we saw from Adobe and Microsoft, there's absolutely no reason to think this tablet can't take the place of a laptop and compete with a Surface for a vast majority of the public.

Despite whatever specs the Surface has, it still runs Windows....and it can't decide if it's a tablet or a laptop. Doesn't excel at either in my opinion.

 

[Traverse]

Amazing device. But no file system no buy.... It still can't replace fully a MacBook.

But comes at MacBook prices.

 

[jrswizzle]

#98
So I buy a $1079 iPad Pro + $69 Pencil thing + $179 cover with keyboard and have $1350 (approx) invested in a device that can;t do what an OS X laptop can do....

And this is good WHY?


Because it makes you *look* like a pro, especially in bling bling.

Oh you can draw on a MacBook? I wasn't aware.....interesting. You're also comparing a cellular iPad to a non cellular enabled MacBook.

By the way, what can't you do on an iPad that you can on a MacBook? Perhaps things to require a lot of processing power, but then we would be comparing devices that have vastly different price points....

And that also fall into different categories for weight and size.

Apple's ecosystem is such that they will continue to release specific devices in specific categories versus releasing a "one size fits all" device. The surface is a jack of all trades, but a master of none.

 

[spinedoc77]

I haven't disabled scaling because I like the sharp, high-DPI fonts in other apps. In Acrobat, some things display correctly with properly sized high-DPI fonts and other things (tools sidebar, some others - not in front of my machine at the moment) are rendered at 1:1 pixel mapping so they're very small. The mix of big and small makes the app look like total crap.

And the Metro version of Acrobat (and others, like Evernote) are total garbage. Even the iPhone versions have more functionality. Drawboard is good, but the dearth of other 'tablet' style apps for the Surface is pretty sad. I'd almost say there are more "pro" apps for iPad than "tablet" apps for the Surface Pro.

SP3 is a good laptop but bad tablet. iPad Pro is likely to be a great tablet, but missing some things on the "pro" end.

So we've not found the Jesus Machine yet.

Hmm, my PDF files look very good with scaling disabled. Not as sharp with it on, but certainly acceptable for reading through long documents and using the toolbar. And this is with it blown up on a 28" monitor. But maybe we have different tolerances for sharpness, I'm a pretty easy guy to please.

Metro Acrobat is a joke, I'd never use it for anything other than maybe emergency viewing something if I'm one handed on the subway or something. Plus I need a LOT of the functions of acrobat pro, extracting pages, securing files with a password, combining PDFs into portfolios, reducing PDF size, etc. It's things like this that I doubt the iPad pro will be doing anytime soon, if ever.

I disagree, I think the SP3 is an awesome tablet. But then we start getting into differences in how we use our tablets, so I'll put in the disclaimer that it's an awesome tablet for ME. I know some lament about it's weight, but isn't it only about 1/4 lb heavier than the iPad pro? Plus I'll bet the SP4 will be lighter, especially if it uses more of a mobile processor or even Skylake, although that's a long shot.

 

[Burger Thing]

Yupp! Exactly what some of us expected. A blown up iPad, running the same OS, so we can stare at the same grid of icons as we always have.

Apple has become so boring and stale, it's not even funny anymore. "Can't innovate, my A$$“ Ah, well...

 

[Robstevo]

What does this even mean? The OS doesn't need the power, apps do. Developers will make this device shine.

If you're waiting for Apple to release a device focused on the OS, stop waiting and buy something else. Apps are the key - they are the focus. Based on what we saw from Adobe and Microsoft, there's absolutely no reason to think this tablet can't take the place of a laptop and compete with a Surface for a vast majority of the public.

Despite whatever specs the Surface has, it still runs Windows....and it can't decide if it's a tablet or a laptop. Doesn't excel at either in my opinion.

Apple have been saying for the last few years the Ipad has a desktop level graphics and Cpu, Yet developers are not even close to making anything that takes the amount of performance it has.

Most games still look crap, Most software is dumbed down etc

Oh and with the surface running windows 10, Very clearly it does decide what it wants to be, Infact all it takes is a click of a button and you can switch from a desktop mode, to a complete tablet mode.

It craps all over the Ipad pro if we are honest, and you mention apps. It runs bloody full windows! pretty much any major application you get **** done, it has.

 

[xraydoc]

Hmm, my PDF files look very good with scaling disabled. Not as sharp with it on, but certainly acceptable for reading through long documents and using the toolbar. And this is with it blown up on a 28" monitor. But maybe we have different tolerances for sharpness, I'm a pretty easy guy to please.

Metro Acrobat is a joke, I'd never use it for anything other than maybe emergency viewing something if I'm one handed on the subway or something. Plus I need a LOT of the functions of acrobat pro, extracting pages, securing files with a password, combining PDFs into portfolios, reducing PDF size, etc. It's things like this that I doubt the iPad pro will be doing anytime soon, if ever.

I disagree, I think the SP3 is an awesome tablet. But then we start getting into differences in how we use our tablets, so I'll put in the disclaimer that it's an awesome tablet for ME. I know some lament about it's weight, but isn't it only about 1/4 lb heavier than the iPad pro? Plus I'll bet the SP4 will be lighter, especially if it uses more of a mobile processor or even Skylake, although that's a long shot.

It's not the PDF file render itself, just the app's menus, toolbars, etc.
Adobe clearly hasn't update it to work with all the various DPI modes.

My main issue is things like the Hue lights app, Huffington Post, UPS, Dropbox, YouTube etc. don't have nice little apps for Win8/Win10. Pretty much need to go through the web browser for all that. Perhaps it's just me being used to a "mobile" OS, but I like having little optimized apps than having to run everything through a web browser.

 

[manu chao]

No.. that would be a WINDOWS clone. Surface is hardware, not software.

Well, fine why is everybody then saying the Surface is better because it runs 'full' Windows and all third-party apps? Either you look at the package or you don't. And if you only look at the hardware, Apple is still doing the opposite by (a) sticking with ARM whereas the Surface has now moved completely to Intel and (b) by using hardware that is equipped to run iOS (which is significantly lighter in its requirements than OS X or Windows) whereas the Surface has the hardware to run Windows.

 

[manu chao]

I've seen people use them for scrolling and occasionally web browsing, and that's about it. They'd probably use them more if more software were designed for touch-screen PCs. I'm still doubtful of the usefulness of touch screens in general, but if a big touch screen belongs anywhere, it's on the MacBook, not on a MacBook-sized iPad.

So, a touch screen belongs on the MacBook where it will be hardly used and not on an iPad where it will be almost exclusively used? If I had to give out general advice on this, I would say a touch screen doesn't really belong on devices that cannot be positioned such that the screen is where your hands naturally would rest (eg, not on a device which had a fixed keyboard attached to the screen).

 

[spinedoc77]

It's not the PDF file render itself, just the app's menus, toolbars, etc.
Adobe clearly hasn't update it to work with all the various DPI modes.

My main issue is things like the Hue lights app, Huffington Post, UPS, Dropbox, YouTube etc. don't have nice little apps for Win8/Win10. Pretty much need to go through the web browser for all that. Perhaps it's just me being used to a "mobile" OS, but I like having little optimized apps than having to run everything through a web browser.

Yeah it's a valid complaint, although it may also be conditioning. Every time I'm stuck with an app I hate the loss of functionality so I kind of feel the opposite. Whenever I'm stuck with an iPad I always end up getting frustrated because I can't accomplish what I want. I'm hoping that unifying desktop and mobile development will bring in lots of new apps/programs. Also I'd like to see how iOS/Android apps on windows is going to work. I honestly think MS is going to hit a major breakthrough this year if the promises it's made come true.

 

[jrswizzle]

Apple have been saying for the last few years the Ipad has a desktop level graphics and Cpu, Yet developers are not even close to making anything that takes the amount of performance it has.

Most games still look crap, Most software is dumbed down etc

Oh and with the surface running windows 10, Very clearly it does decide what it wants to be, Infact all it takes is a click of a button and you can switch from a desktop mode, to a complete tablet mode.

It craps all over the Ipad pro if we are honest, and you mention apps. It runs bloody full windows! pretty much any major application you get **** done, it has.

Forgive me if I can't stand Windows. As for developers not taking advantage of the power, that's somewhat true and false. There are plenty of apps out there that allow for lots of powerful productivity on an iPad. It will continue to evolve - adding additional hardware like the iPad Pro only helps that.

At the end of the day, I can't handle anything that runs windows. The OS isn't intuitive, it's taken some cues from OS X, but ultimately doesn't do anything for me. Call it preference.

The Surface is a clunky tablet - as a laptop (actually on your lap), it's uncomfortable with the kickstand and keyboard case. The iPad Pro is a tablet with some additional accessories. It's not a laptop, it's not a desktop. Apple doesn't make hybrid devices - that's why features such as continuity and handoff exist. The idea is to be able to use the device that works best for the time and task and smoothly/efficiently move between devices as you move through your day.

Expecting anything else isn't Apple's problem. It's pretty clear what they are trying to do. If a Surface fits your work flow, go for it. Personally I'm a desktop/iPad guy. For 95% of what I do, an iPad works great. But I have an iMac at home for those times I game or need extra desktop oomph. For me, the iPad Pro seemed like it would be unnecessarily large, but I like the Pencil for sketching and keyboard for the occasional time I need to type out something long (like this post).

Still very much a tablet - because a tablet gets the job done as easily and efficiently as possible for my work flow. I'm gonna try the iPad Pro (I have extra devices to sell) - will still hold on to my trusty Air 2 that I love (my most used device). But the iPad Pro looks pretty great IMO.

 

[spinedoc77]

So, a touch screen belongs on the MacBook where it will be hardly used and not on an iPad where it will be almost exclusively used? If I had to give out general advice on this, I would say a touch screen doesn't really belong on devices that cannot be positioned such that the screen is where your hands naturally would rest (eg, not on a device which had a fixed keyboard attached to the screen).

My hands are positioned quite nicely to touch my screen on my SP3 in laptop mode right now. Sometimes a finger flick or tap makes more sense than moving the mouse, especially things like zooming in and out as one perfect example. It depends on the use though. If I'm on a desktop with a large screen far in front of me then I wouldn't use a touchscreen. But if I'm on a smaller laptop and much closer to the screen, then it makes a lot of sense, especially if I don't want to carry a mouse around with me or use the trackpad.

 

[LordVic]

I suppose it depends on how you work. If you want to hunt and peck with a stylus all day long I suppose you are entitled to it. For me HELL no, I need my mouse. I couldn't see working with menus, file systems, etc with a stylus.

Your quad OSx setup barely runs full office? That's nuts, have you sent it in for warranty yet? Office in no way slows down any of my PC's, not even the literally 10 year old laptop I have in one of my back offices.

you could be a deviant like me and use both at the same time

Being a lefty and having a Surface pro, i often use the touchpad with my right hand (or a mouse) and the stylus in my left.

I even have installed a IR based screen on my desktop (dell's 22" IPS based screen) so that I can use the surface pen then (albeit it without pressure sensitivity)

 

[spinedoc77]

Forgive me if I can't stand Windows. As for developers not taking advantage of the power, that's somewhat true and false. There are plenty of apps out there that allow for lots of powerful productivity on an iPad. It will continue to evolve - adding additional hardware like the iPad Pro only helps that.

At the end of the day, I can't handle anything that runs windows. The OS isn't intuitive, it's taken some cues from OS X, but ultimately doesn't do anything for me. Call it preference.

The Surface is a clunky tablet - as a laptop (actually on your lap), it's uncomfortable with the kickstand and keyboard case. The iPad Pro is a tablet with some additional accessories. It's not a laptop, it's not a desktop. Apple doesn't make hybrid devices - that's why features such as continuity and handoff exist. The idea is to be able to use the device that works best for the time and task and smoothly/efficiently move between devices as you move through your day.

Expecting anything else isn't Apple's problem. It's pretty clear what they are trying to do. If a Surface fits your work flow, go for it. Personally I'm a desktop/iPad guy. For 95% of what I do, an iPad works great. But I have an iMac at home for those times I game or need extra desktop oomph. For me, the iPad Pro seemed like it would be unnecessarily large, but I like the Pencil for sketching and keyboard for the occasional time I need to type out something long (like this post).

Still very much a tablet - because a tablet gets the job done as easily and efficiently as possible for my work flow. I'm gonna try the iPad Pro (I have extra devices to sell) - will still hold on to my trusty Air 2 that I love (my most used device). But the iPad Pro looks pretty great IMO.

But don't forget the SP3 also handles different paradigms smoothly. I have the surface dock and simply plop it in and instantly it turns into a desktop with multiple external monitors, mouse, full sized keyboard, external storage, etc.

I also never understood why the SP3 is "clunky" as a tablet, I'm curious about that. At the end of the day it's still ONE device and I'd rather carry it than a laptop and a tablet, what a waste IMO. Apple doesn't make hybrid devices because it would affect their bottom line. An OSx tablet would eat into their laptop sales, and Apple banks on convincing the consumer they need multiple devices.

 

[Thunderbird]

Seriously? You think that saving a $10 component would have changed anything in Apple's pricing?

Seriously? You think they would sell it for the same price without the camera?