Apple Lobbying Against Arizona Bill That Would Let Developers Use Third-Party Payment Options

[j569mxr]

Why would devs lose the ability to host free apps?

what pays for the app store infrastructure? the fees apple collects from the sales of products on their hosting platform. if those fees dry up, so does the platform.

Help me with this: Big companies would use cheap payment providers, but these providers would be simultaneously too expensive for small devs? Huh?

if netflix started accepting in-app payment, but used a 3rd party, the number of transactions per-month would ensure they got a very favorable rate, where-as Jim's Video Streaming App would not be able to guarantee those transactions, so would be stuck paying a 3rd party a high rate.

 

[j569mxr]

Well you seem like the pro-consumer type, don't you? If I purchase a device, I own it, and therefore yes, I am entitled to use that device as I wish, and includes installing whatever software I want on it.

someone doesn't read their end-user license...

 

[Dorje Sylas]

Just a hunch here, but it looks like you're heavily biased against Republicans.

As an Arizonan, yes. Every much so. 30+ years of legislature control has not be great for this state. And badly written retaliatory snap lobbyist bills like this end badly.

You can read it for yourself. This is not the framework to "open" iOS. It's an opportunistic swipe by Representative Cobb, without consideration of longer term ramifications. Especially the the carve out provision, also the very thin Definition section.

This garbage isn't making distinction about where the "extra" digital content is coming from. Such as using IAP to a "full" version of an App that is still hosted from the "DIGITAL APPLICATION DISTRIBUTION PLATFORM". Instead of say a subscription News Paper, which is pulling their data from their own servers.

It's very par from the Arizona Republican Legislature. Shoddy work that will hurt Arizonans, just to score cheap "we hit Apple and Google" points.

 

[farewelwilliams]

Aww poor Apple and Google. They're upset that the users of their products might be given more choices for apps.

Android users were given the choice. Problem is, installing another app store complicates the entire experience that people rather just use the Play Store. Ask Epic how their plan went in offering Fortnite through their website.

Forcing complexity is not the answer.

 

[boast]

Android users were given the choice. Problem is, installing another app store complicates the entire experience that people rather just use the Play Store. Ask Epic how their plan went in offering Fortnite through their website.

Forcing complexity is not the answer.

That's how I feel about democracy. A one-party political system just makes things easier. In fact, if we forced wealth distribution we wouldn't even need to worry about this situation.

 

[78Bandit]

"This would allow billion-dollar developers to take all of the app store's value for free, even if they're selling digital goods, even if they're making millions or billions of dollars doing it. The bill is a government mandate that Apple give away the app store."

So why are Uber, Lyft, Airbnb, etc. allowed to take all of the app store's value for free? Uber alone had over $14 Billion in revenue in 2019 and you know half that came from the iPhone. Seems a little arbitrary to limit it to digital goods.

 

[lolOwO]

Well you seem like the pro-consumer type, don't you? If I purchase a device, I own it, and therefore yes, I am entitled to use that device as I wish, and includes installing whatever software I want on it.

forcing open the iOS store doesn't benefit the consumer. and the software isnt yours. iphones have one of the highest customer satifaction rates in the industry, so i would rather you not pretend you're advocating for anyone but the 1%

 

[MauiPa]

I hope this applies to Amazon as well. After I find a product I want, I shouldn’t have to pay the Amazon tax to buy it, so unfair

 

[Tooldog]

Shouldn't we be more upset that legislation is for sale?

 

[Graphikos]

Android users were given the choice. Problem is, installing another app store complicates the entire experience that people rather just use the Play Store. Ask Epic how their plan went in offering Fortnite through their website.

Forcing complexity is not the answer.

With that example, the same would probably happen with Apple also. Most people would just stick to the installed, integrated App Store vs installing a 3rd party one (and then we can have anti-competitive arguments about that).

But this is trying to force Apple's App Store to allow alternate payment methods. It's like saying we will force Walmart to allow Apple Pay and any other payment processor rather than their own system that is specifically used to minimize their fees. Or Amazon... or eBay... or any large company that built up their own store and operate in their best interest. Right?

The other thing is the 30% isn't the fee for the payment processing alone. It's the fee to use the entire platform.

 

[lolOwO]

Sorry, the Minnesota representative is a member of the Democratic Farm Labor party, a far left offshoot of the Democratic Party. Not what I would call a conservative.

As an Arizonan, yes. Every much so. 30+ years of legislature control has not be great for this state. And badly written retaliatory snap lobbyist bills like this end badly.

You can read it for yourself. This is not the framework to "open" iOS. It's an opportunistic swipe by Representative Cobb, without consideration of longer term ramifications. Especially the the carve out provision, also the very thin Definition section.

This garbage isn't making distinction about where the "extra" digital content is coming from. Such as using IAP to a "full" version of an App that is still hosted from the "DIGITAL APPLICATION DISTRIBUTION PLATFORM". Instead of say a subscription News Paper, which is pulling their data from their own servers.

It's very par from the Arizona Republican Legislature. Shoddy work that will hurt Arizonans, just to score cheap "we hit Apple and Google" points.

Minnesota and Arizona Bills Aim to Let Developers Skirt Apple's In-App Purchase Rules

Sorry, the Minnesota representative is a member of the Democratic Farm Labor party, a far left offshoot of the Democratic Party. Not what I would call a conservative.

forums.macrumors.com

doesnt seem to me that this is easily a left/right issue. does the European Union consist of mostly conservatives? i doubt it.

 

[Krizoitz]

In a hearing last week, Apple's chief compliance officer Kyle Andeer called HB2005 a "government mandate that Apple give away the App Store.

Nobody is forcing Apple to give away their App Store. That's a lie.

If this law (or something similar) passes Apple is absolutely being forced. That’s what laws do. The whole purpose of laws is to force things. That can be good (like speed limits) or bad (like segregation) or in between, but it is still being forced to do/not do something.

 

[grahamwright1]

Well you seem like the pro-consumer type, don't you? If I purchase a device, I own it, and therefore yes, I am entitled to use that device as I wish, and includes installing whatever software I want on it.

You absolutely own the phone, but you only have a license for the operating system that Apple owns. Try taking a closer read at their Terms and Conditions around what rights you have agreed to......

 

[Krizoitz]

Consider this, if Third-Party iOS App Stores were allowed here in the States, that would create "App Discovery" competition for Apple.

In what universe does more app stores help discovery? It makes it harder to find apps not easier because now you have to check multiple places and manage multiple sources. There are arguments to be made for multiple app stores but ease of discovery is very much not one of them.

 

[Krizoitz]

Well you seem like the pro-consumer type, don't you? If I purchase a device, I own it, and therefore yes, I am entitled to use that device as I wish, and includes installing whatever software I want on it.

Do whatever you want with your device. No one is stopping you. But that doesn’t mean anyone else has to help you. You want to force Apple to change it’s software to suit your needs and demands. That’s insane.

 

[4jasontv]

In a hearing last week, Apple's chief compliance officer Kyle Andeer called HB2005 a "government mandate that Apple give away the App Store.

Nobody is forcing Apple to give away their App Store. That's a lie.

What part is the lie?

 

[d7d19285f0bd48]

Ok.....

So then Apple should turn around and do what Epic Games (cough cough) does with the Unreal Engine and have developers incur a charge as a total percentage revenue after the fact.

Problem solved. 🤷🏼‍♂️

Or you know, just keep doing what it is doing, like Epic Games (cough cough) does with the Unreal Marketplace and have developers incur a charge as a total recent age of revenue through the marketplace transaction.

🤦🏼‍♂️

 

[sdf]

This will give us terrible user experience because every app will require the user to manage their own logins and license keys, compared to the current state where everything is managed through the Apple account, similar to how it also works on XBOX, PlayStation, Nintendo…

Not to mention some of those IAPs will end up being scams. Even more scams, I mean.

 

[farewelwilliams]

With that example, the same would probably happen with Apple also. Most people would just stick to the installed, integrated App Store vs installing a 3rd party one. But this is trying to force Apple's App Store to allow alternate payment methods.

If it's likely that very few developers would adopt third party systems, then it's not worth trying to force this system to cater towards a small group of developers.

Unless many developers are going to switch over then that completely ruins the economics of $99+15%.

It's like saying we will force Walmart to allow Apple Pay and any other payment processor rather than their own system that is specifically used to minimize their fees. Right?

That's up to Walmart to do in their own stores. That's their platform.

 

[huffy15]

A lot of fortune 500 compagnies I work for are moving away from a native app and use PWA web app instead. So much more flexibility and you don't need to rely on one company. It's very concerning that apple and google have so much power over their apps.

 

[aidler]

That was to be expected. Apple makes great products for most but customers interests are not their thing.

 

[zarmanto]

This proposed law is nothing more and nothing less than Epic attempting to force Apple's hand in their contract negotiations by way of political lobbyists. The fact that the Arizona lawmakers don't appear to realize that they're just pawns being used by Epic is truly sad.

Of course, maybe Epic bandied about a few million in cash, and those politicians know perfectly well what they're doing and why... which would be a wholly different kind of beast, but equally sad.

Mark my words: If Epic ever manages to successfully manipulate a state into giving them the legislation that they want, Apple will (by necessity) push back in some very messy ways. It would not be a good thing.

 

[Graphikos]

That's up to Walmart to do in their own stores. That's their platform.

Yep, exactly, and this is Apple's own store and platform... seems legit to me. If a smartphone somehow became a necessity to physically live then maybe we'd have a problem. But it's their platform for a luxury product... it's their rules.

It boggles my mind how Apple is always the target and countless other examples that control their own platform are ignored. I guess it's not too surprising, at the end of the day it's just about money and Apple has a lot of that.

 

[vicviper789]

Rightfully so.

Even without considering traditional in-app purchases, developers could just make an app that's $10 one-time payment "free" and then have a "in-app purchase" to unlock it.

This will give us terrible user experience because every app will require the user to manage their own logins and license keys, compared to the current state where everything is managed through the Apple account, similar to how it also works on XBOX, PlayStation, Nintendo…

No way man. You ever get locked out of an account because you use someone else's PC? When all of your purchases/data is tied to a single Apple or Google account, it carries a lot of liability. And no one has ever had their Google or Apple account terminated without warning...right?

 

[69Mustang]

what pays for the app store infrastructure? the fees apple collects from the sales of products on their hosting platform. if those fees dry up, so does the platform.



if netflix started accepting in-app payment, but used a 3rd party, the number of transactions per-month would ensure they got a very favorable rate, where-as Jim's Video Streaming App would not be able to guarantee those transactions, so would be stuck paying a 3rd party a high rate.

Why would the fees dry up? It's not like the dev community en masse would opt to drop Apple as a payment provider. Very few would even care to leave imo. And no, Jim's app would not be stuck paying a 3rd party high rate. Jim would continue using Apple. Remember, this wouldn't be a mandate. It would be an option. The only way the dooms day scenarios being floated in this thread would work is if 3rd party systems would be mandated and Apple wasn't an option. Neither of those things are true.