Apple Looks Beyond Silicon Valley to Improve Recruitment and Retention

[CasinoOwl]

Yup, that's what people were claiming last week in the story related to Apple demanding it's employees back to the office - "Apple call the all the shots, and if employees don't like it, they can quit"...

That claim aged like milk...

The reality is, Apple need to be more flexible than people seem to realize.

Apple employees complain about coming back to work and Apple puts out word that they are willing to hire outside of Cupertino. I don't see Apple as being on the hook here. If the employees want to try to force Apple to alter their long held operating philosophy, they might find they don't have the leverage they think they have.

 

[jk73]

Maybe.

(There's always the question of how much worse the housing cost would be otherwise.)

Either way, the person was asking how you do it. I linked how you do it. Whether it's an effective or positive measure is another question entirely.

If you’re not sure if it’s “effective or positive,” then you’re putting the cart before the horse.

 

[citysnaps]

All these articles tend to be PR. Nobody's moving out of silicon valley because that's where the talent is and that's where it will always remain. Until the business model changes (companies doing their own R&D vs acquisition) the concentration of talent in silicon valley cannot and will not change. There is no sign of that business model changing. If at all, it's getting more and more pronounced with dependence on tech.

Spot on. There's so much pearl-clutching happening on this thread. Likely most do not or have never lived in Silicon Valley. Apple and Silicon Valley will do just fine.

 

[Shirasaki]

More and more people are realizing that spending their life working 80+ hours a week for rich dictators isn’t fulfilling. They have woken up to there being more to life than working. Sorry Tim, we are tired of wasting our lives so you can make millions of $ selling more phones to the “labor class”. We want a life. We want freedom. We want a future.

While I very much agree with the sentiment, this is largely one major reason big tech companies wanting to replace human as much as possible, even including CEO. Heck, if AI developed by Google is good enough that it can maintain their codebase autonomously with minimal human intervention, I have every bit of confidence that Google will fire all but the best of the best talented software engineers to cut down cost dramatically.

 

[2013.1]

So, a locked garden for users and employees.

 

[InuNacho]

Spot on. There's so much pearl-clutching happening on this thread. Likely most do not or have never lived in Silicon Valley. Apple and Silicon Valley will do just fine.

I love it when people online tell me about the problems that exist in my area when they've never set foot here.
I can think of a few other issues retaining talent for any techie around here:

Property crime
Traffic
Hard to keep you and the kids sane when you live in a 1 bedroom condo
A fair amount of Keeping up with the Joneses Mentality

I mean really, unless you were born here I'm not sure why you'd come.

 

[citysnaps]

I grew up in Silicon Valley.

The place started to go down hill in the 1997-1998 timeframe.

That's when the cost of apartments first went way up, & most of the women moved elsewhere.

And after a recent five-month visit earlier this year, I can say it's now more of the same there !

Combine that with the fact that Apple's stock has gone up so much the past few years (which makes recruiting Top Talent extremely difficult), & the fact that they are competing with Google & Facebook there who also pay well, it's NO wonder they are looking elsewhere.

But, very surprised to hear Apple is ONLY now starting to accept reality !

BTW, don't know about the other places mentioned, but they have very little presence here in San Diego.

I also grew up and was educated in Silicon Valley and have lived and worked my whole professional life there.

It started with Stanford University (and Santa Clara U, UCB, SJS), Prof. Fred Terman, Bill Hewlett and Dave Packard, Bill Shockley, Gordon Moore, Bob Noyce, Jobs and Wosniak, Bill Perry, various defense aerospace companies, and *many others* cultivating Silicon Valley way before the 1990s, going back to the 1950s-1960s. It has always been a desirable place to live (excellent weather, easy access to the ocean/mountains/recreation, etc), and of course, work.

Seems this needs to be rehashed every decade. Life goes on, Apple will continue to do great. I would not want to live in any other area.

 

[Freedom1]

My experience working in Silicon Valley has taught me that the entire area needs to be closed, leveled, and converted to a parking lot or better yet, a wilderness. There is nothing more bizarre than living and working in that environment. Enormous amounts of money are spent on the most amazingly wasteful and non-business-related baubles, while employees are unable to keep up with the extravagant living expenses to reside near their jobs. Homelessness is out of control there, as is congestion and environmental damage. This is all not to even mention the destruction that much of Silicon Valley imposes on our culture and society by their manipulation and control through the social media platforms they own.

Apple would do well to move out, and many others would do well to shutter themselves and embark on a self-assessment on a mountaintop somewhere.

Regardless of the reasons given publicly, it is hard to see how the growing chaos and lawlessness of the SF area specifically and Cali generally is not a big factor in Apple doing this. Apple is a very disciplined company. It's the secret to their success. It is hard to maintain that ethos when surrounded by growing lawlessness, disorder, and indigence. Disciplined and law-abiding people will move away from lawlessness. That's just the way of things. Poverty doesn't cause crime, crime causes poverty.

 

[patent10021]

They will open in Utah and Texas. I called it first.

 

[Smith288]

Absolutely no reason to centralize your company like those in Silicon Valley do. Places like Sarasota/Bradenton, Raleigh, Columbus, & San Antonio are great places to live inexpensively as well as be a pivotal part of a global company.
The quicker companies realize this the faster they can save on employment costs, taxes, benefits.
It’s a real no brainer.

Though I can see a place like SF and the Valley becoming a ghost town since housing costs would plummet due to less demand. Then we’ll see what the govt leadership can do to change their policies to a bit more moderate tax policies.

 

[SergueiTemp]

Unless this isn't part of the plan to find more slaves outside of Rome this can be beneficial to Apple, cause the management is clearly losing touch with reality.

 

[Realityck]

I also grew up and was educated in Silicon Valley and have lived and worked my whole professional life there.

It started with Stanford University (and Santa Clara U), Prof. Fred Terman, Bill Hewlett and Dave Packard, Bill Shockley, Gordon Moore, Bob Noyce, Jobs and Wosniak, Bill Perry, various defense aerospace companies, and *many others* cultivating Silicon Valley way before the 1990s, going back to the 1950s-1960s. It has always been a desirable place to live (excellent weather, easy access to the ocean/mountains/recreation, etc), and of course, work.

Seems this needs to be rehashed every decade. Life goes on, Apple will continue to do great. I would not want to live in any other area.

I say people complaining about this area are mostly late arrivals. A lot just rent a large home for a family with several that work, or another that shares rooms among several people that work. Is renting the home super expensive, nope. Like 4000 a month, divided among several parties. People come to this valley from all over the world. If you want it a lot cheaper you compute from places more inland or further away. Other places that also attract industry/talent offer way higher population density and similar million dollar homes. Silicone Valley is mostly suburban, not urban. In such we have better lifestyle even with so much industry. Sure You have people coming to this area all the time, and leaving for other areas. No place in this country can remain perfect for all, but it’s a great place to live if you want experience the most diverse cultures, cuisine, entertainment, and technology.

 

[citysnaps]

I say people complaining about this area are mostly late arrivals. A lot just rent a large home for a family with several that work, or another that shares rooms among several people that work. Is renting the home super expensive, nope. Like 4000 a month, divided among several parties. People come to this valley from all over the world. If you want it a lot cheaper you compute from places more inland or further away. Other places that also attract industry/talent offer way higher population density and similar million dollar homes. Silicone Valley is mostly suburban, not urban. In such we have better lifestyle even with so much industry. Sure You have people coming to this area all the time, and leaving for other areas. No place in this country can remain perfect for all, but it’s a great place to live if you want experience the most diverse cultures, cuisine, entertainment, and technology.

Excellent assessment.

 

[SharksFan22]

I lived and worked in Silicon Valley from about 1990 until about 2010 until we moved up to the Pleasanton area. We’ve since moved even further to the edge of the Bay Area and our next move will be out of state. California politics, anti-business policies, increasing crime and failure of our elected officials to do their jobs have in my opinion ruined one of the most beautiful places. I was back in San Jose a few weeks ago and didn’t recognize the place. Go stand on the corner of Winchester and Stevens Creek - anyone remember the Town and Country mall and the Chevrolet dealership on the corner? Now there are two monstrous high-end shopping centers across the street from one another and it's total gridlock. Everything is so jammed in and there are so many people literally on top of one another - perhaps time has made the memories seem better than reality. Cost of living is so high there now Apple and other companies will have a very hard time attracting the next generation of young workers. But to some people that's a paradise so I guess it's all in the eye of the beholder. .

(edit - fixed typos)

 

[Realityck]

We should note that Mark Gurman is from LA, is that any better?

 

[Darth.Titan]

Here's what may happen. Apple uses this as an opportunity to profit like all businesses and will have lower wages for employees in other locations. VMWare is doing this now.....if you move to other states for full time remote they cut your salary .....for example i heard 18% for certain areas.


Doing quick math you still end up far ahead if you went to Texas. Lets say you make $200k in CA for Apple now. With 18% reduction it's $164k in TX. You're take home pay difference after taxes(no state taxes in Texas) is going to be only a 7.5% difference. According to the cost of living difference $200k in San Fran is equal to $104k in Austin. This isn't even account for saving on commuting expenses if you went remote(most people have no idea how much they spend on this). https://money.cnn.com/calculator/pf/cost-of-living/index.html


CA $200,000
Take home $132,226

TX $164,000
Take home $122,621

Dear Californians,
Please stop moving to Austin. The wagon train of California refugees needs to end. There's no place to live here anymore. I could sell the house I bought four years ago outside of Austin (not even in Austin proper) for probably twice what I paid for it, with multiple offers tomorrow if I wanted. The problem with that would be there's no place to go. Californian investment firms are buying all Austin area properties site unseen and turning them into rentals, and apartment buildings and tract homes are building as fast as they can and selling/renting at ridiculous prices.
Our water and power system was not built to handle this influx and things are going to go downhill fast. Every time I see a California plate on the street I want to scream.
Please find somewhere else to flee to. Thanks a bunch.

P.S. This post was intended to be very much tongue-in-cheek. I'm only about 75-80% serious. Maybe 85%.

90% tops.

 

[Johnny907]

It’s ironic that Tim is currently in Sun Valley for the annual Allen and Company meeting of the millionaires, a town facing its own fallout from housing shortages thanks to an influx of Californians fleeing the Rona but still working remotely. Restaurants and other small businesses are forced to cut their hours due to lack of help, as no one that would work them can afford to live within 50 miles of them.
The event itself normally draws in a couple hundred temp workers from outside the valley, but the only housing available for them is a pop up tent city near the base of the local ski hill, which charges upwards of a thousand dollars a tent. It’s ridiculous, but this is what happens when the perfect storm of changing economies and slow to act local politicians creates a community where no one who would work in can afford to live in.

 

[GrumpyCoder]

This is what the new smaller motherships are going to look like top view:

 

[boswald]

I thought being able to work in Apple would always be the biggest attraction to any talented individual, and they’d bend in order to work for Apple.

It was, for a long time. But the pandemic has changed the world; people appreciate life and the things they hold dear more. I think that, when you take into consideration how much we take for granted — home, job, loved ones — people readjusted their perspective of self-worth.

 

[docbop]

Surprised Apple didn't think about the sky high cost of living up in Silicon Valley and Bay area. Other companies I've seen bought apartment buildings in area around their companies and offered breaks on rents to employees. The company is investing in both property and retaining employees.

 

[xbjllb]

Wouldn't it be cheaper in the long run to subsidize housing for its engineers/employees? Haven't corporations been doing that, oh, I dunno, since forever? Especially now with so many wanting to continue working from home.

 

[Eso]

Why any large company is still headquartered in California is beyond me. They are just throwing their money away in taxes and cost of living. It’s a bit late, however, considering that they just rebuilt an entire campus.

 

[Zdigital2015]

I thought being able to work in Apple would always be the biggest attraction to any talented individual, and they’d bend in order to work for Apple.

The 80 hour work weeks along with the 1-1/2 to 2 hour commute to the Spaceship can put a damper on your enthusiasm rather quickly.

 

[ElectricPotato]

How do you "control" housing prices?
Perhaps issue a "Directive 10-289" ??

New directives require filing a form 27B/6.

 

[bousozoku]

I am surprised there is no state wide limitation or cap on how much you can charge per m2 for rent. That would solve the problem a little

That would be good but California government hates to hurt anyone.

Many people from Santa Clara County have moved out to Central Valley, causing prices to spike out here. This town has gone from 15,000 people to 80,000, most of whom come from Santa Clara County. My 2 bedroom apartment in 2014 was US$835 per month. If you can find any 1 bedroom apartment under US$1300/month, you're lucky. I'm renting a room for US$650/month now.

Those commuters, pre Covid-19 had a 3 hour commute, depending on their method of transportation. Even Tesla workers, who ride the company's buses to work, enjoy a long ride from out here.