Apple Loses A7/A8 Patent Lawsuit, Could Owe University of Wisconsin Up to $862 Million

[sw1tcher]

Patents and Copyrights are all bs inventions of western society. If I’m China or India I just tell the US “we don’t recognize the concept of patents and copyrights” and just copy all the expensive drugs, software, whatever.

If China and India don't recognize patents or copyrights, then why does China and India have patent and trademark offices?

China's is called State Intellectual Property Office of the People's Republic of China, or SIPO

India's is called Office of the Controller General of Patents, Designs & Trade Marks, or CGPDTM

 

[Dranix]

Ah well us patent laws are just insane. This is exactly the reason my apps will never hit the us-stores: the us is a minefield.

 

[macs4nw]

Tax evasion is illegal. What Apple did was tax avoidance, which is legal. They owe Ireland nothing.

.....Legal, and practiced by just about every other multinational corporation.

On topic, payday for WARF and UW. I'd be very interested to know if the court finds whether Apple wilfully infringed or if this was a case of simultaneous development, or even just a lack of researching 'prior development' by others, on Apple's part.

 

[arobert3434]

The point is not that people are forced to buy 16 GB devices. The point is that people are forced to pay $750 (for the 6s) to get a 'useable' amount of storage. If Apple offered a 32 GB Phone at $650, a lot of people who currently get the $750/64 GB model would get that. And every person doing so would probably reduce Apple's profits by $90 per phone sold.

I really wish 16GB complainers would just go away. It's perfectly fine if you just want to use an iPhone as a phone with some basics like maps, email, and web access. Maybe Android has trouble with 16GB even doing just these things, but neither iOS nor Windows Phone do. Not everyone needs to carry around their digital life in their pockets or install lots of apps and games.

 

[MikePLP]

So, USPTO denies Apple request for review, but it happily allowed Samsung's request to review Apple's patent.
USPTO must be staffed by some of the Apple haters that comment here.

 

[smoledman]

A rounding error for Apple, but ominous what it means for the processor industry as a whole...

 

[Naaaaak]

Absolutely. I've tangentially heard about patent rights at universities and they're extremely all-encompassing in favor of the university. Basically anything that a professor produces while at the university is the university's property.

A further line of thinking: When I was at university, I had a fun discussion about who owns what students produce. Spoiler: It's the university. Once I learned that I stopped trying hard. I wasn't going to pay them tuition and other fees then give them anything I produced.

 

[Pips333]

I had no idea a University would stoop to the level of patent troll. Way to set an example for students.

So when an educational institution takes action for theft of it's work and research they are labelled a troll....

When Apple does the same .....what does that make them ?

 

[matthewhuk]

I wish I owed someone $862 million.

You do.. Me!
A cheque will be fine

 

[Schizoid]

I'm sure the University of Wisconsin need a new building, or their computers refreshed. Apple will now be happy to do this for them.

 

[mazz0]

Only lawyers win.

Well, you could argue that people having their inventions protected also win.

 

[proute]

I wish I owed someone $862 million.

Just pirate a song.

 

[MH01]

Tax evasion is illegal. What Apple did was tax avoidance, which is legal. They owe Ireland nothing.

One can lead to criminal charges, the other can lead to enforcement of debt.

Tax avoidance is not legal mate, its a question if you get audited and when taken as far as court to argue the case, if you or the tax office is right. Avoidance results in repayment of tax plus interest and penalties. Evasion leads to possible prison time.

If and a big if, you find a loop hole , you can get away with avoidance. That will be closed though, and the game of cat and mouse continues.

 

[vladi]

US patent system has to be renovated. It doesn't protect companies doing business but trolls that are not doing anything.

Exactly. Reform is needed so companies like Apple are not allowed to patent this http://www.uspto.gov/web/patents/patog/week23/OG/html/1415-2/USD0731529-20150609.html
just because they have some pull within the system to actually approve something that has been used many times before them and pretty much has nothing to do with patent but more with ip.

 

[mijail]

Well Apple is trying to save as much money as possible by shipping devices that shoot 4K video with 12GB of usable storage. They'll need to pay for this somehow. It's not like they have hundreds of billions or anything. I'm only half joking.

So the reasoning is, "they have money so they should be giving it away - to us!". Right?

It was a half-joke, but seriously I have to deal with this issue so much at home and at work. Nobody listens to me and buys the cheapest iPhone possible. Then I have to help them because I'm the guy.

So, someone is cheapskate or uninformed enough to buy something that they don't know how to deal with - and you help them. OK, kudos to you, shows your kindness. But… good luck. My first line would be "hey, why in hell did you buy this with these previsible problems? And now I have to be your lifeline? Go return it and get something else." Even more so if I had already told them to NOT BUY THAT.

Sounds harsh, but that is what I learnt after a couple of decades dealing with other's problems with their Windows computers - while I had been telling everyone on earshot to get a Mac, or even Linux lately. Just-not-another-Windows. Oh, finally you got the cheapest HP and want help. Fsck you.

No but most people think if they're spending hundreds on an iPhone that it won't run out of space in 22 minutes.

Hey, I got this fancy Mercedes and guess what? Turns out I have to keep pouring gas in it! AND IT IS NOT FREE!
I find it hard to feel sympathy for someone who didn't factor usage/maintenance costs in a buy. A fool and his money, yadda yadda.

And anyway it's not like I have EVER recorded more than a few minutes in my phone. About 10 once in a concert, and I was annoying enough already to others - and to myself. 22 minutes? Really? Get a camera, and/or a life.

 

[Bawstun]

Yay. Karma for releasing the inferior 6+ with insufficient operating RAM. May they end up owing the full $862 million.

 

[joe-h2o]

This is one of the things that bugs me about patents. I am sure the researchers came up with something IN THEORY. Apple actually created it! Whether they knew about the patent or not it's kind of silly how you can patent almost ANYTHING without ever having to CREATE it. There should be some kind of time limit on patents that says you have to actually PRODUCE the patent within a certain number of years or it expires. I am not necessary defending Apple but this kind of stuff happens a lot.

Jesus the saltiness in this thread is hilarious.

What's your evidence for them not creating anything? The patented a method as part of a research process - this is not uncommon, nor is it "silly".

The fact that they're being classed as a "patent troll" just because they sued Apple is also ridiculous. This is an entity that does active research and licences its IP in order to fund more research. A patent troll doesn't do anything but litigate based on things other people have done.

Not only did WARF do the research they patented, but they also use licensing money to continue work on other things.

Their product is the design they created that Apple clearly found useful enough to use.

 

[Maschil]

So was the Apple Samsung amount based on what Apple could have made or what Samsung made?

dont know didnt know they won a lawsuit vs them.

 

[joe-h2o]

I'm confused, how would the university have made $862 million, if Apple hadn't used that patent? Isn't that what the amount is based on, as in the Samsung and Apple Lawsuit?

They raise money to pay for research by licensing the research they have already done. Ideally Apple would have paid the licensing cost for this patent, which I'm sure wouldn't have been 800 million (nowhere close), but the damages tend to be more punitive than the original cost to stop companies from simply using patented stuff without intending to pay until they lose in court.

 

[joe-h2o]

Completely different as Apple actually makes something with their patents vs this university that is a patent troll who makes nothing.

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! You're funny.

Oh wait, you were serious? Let me laugh even harder.


What exactly do you think it is that Apple used? By your logic it's "nothing".

How do you think universities generate income streams that help to pay for research into things that become modern products?

That research doesn't just magically appear out of thin air to make your processor faster each year, or your wireless more effective, or your battery lasting longer, or your retina screen, or your improved SSD performance. All this stuff requires time, effort and money. It certainly doesn't all come from work done by the private sector. Research groups attached to universities, especially spin out companies, are a vast source of progress in modern tech, and they fund that via licencing the research that they do.

"a patent troll who makes nothing." That may just be the funniest thing I have read all week.

 

[samcraig]

• The university isn't a patent troll.
• Universities are businesses.
• No, it's not just a drop in the bucket or pocket change to Apple because the implications and precedent it sets is significant.
• The defending of Apple and/or bashing patent system only when it favors Apple is pretty eye-rolling to see.
• There's zero reason to bring Samsung, Microsoft or any other company into the discussion. It's irrelevant.

 

[LordBeelzebub]

Pocket change for Apple.

Apple will just pass along the cost to us consumers anyway, just like all companies do. The reason why Apple has so much money is because they are already grossly over charging people for their products.

If Apple has to pay, they'll get it back by making us pay more for something. Bet on it!

 

[soccerjoshj07]

I'm sure the University of Wisconsin need a new building, or their computers refreshed. Apple will now be happy to do this for them.

Funny, wonder if that hurts their relationship. They have a TON of Mac's as their computer stations around campus, sell a lot to the faculty, and push the Macbooks pretty heavily and the University's tech shop.

 

[Tiger8]

A further line of thinking: When I was at university, I had a fun discussion about who owns what students produce. Spoiler: It's the university. Once I learned that I stopped trying hard. I wasn't going to pay them tuition and other fees then give them anything I produced.

BTW, most companies do the same as well. So if you have a 9-5 job, and you invent something in your own spare time, legally your employer owns the invention, copyright and patents (if any), especially if it's similar / close to what you do 9-5

 

[Rocketman]

I wonder if the inventors will get anything at all?

Is that the biggest judgement ever in Wisconsin?