Apple Losing Talent to Google Amid Push to Improve Spotlight and Launch Search Engine

[Mrkevinfinnerty]

You mean the same way your company can fire you for virtually little cause in at-will employment locations.

Maybe they can in America...

 

[I7guy]

Maybe they can in America...

They can, the same way you can leave. It's a two way street.

 

[4nNtt]

Apple getting in to more ad-funded business worries me. I think Apple would follow in Google’s footsteps and take the easy money that many investors would like to see instead of staying principled. There is too much of a slippery slope. It ruined Google and I’d hate to see it ruin Apple. I’m already worried enough about some of Apple’s rent-seeking and ad practices. Apple needs to value their brand more then they currently do.

 

[4nNtt]

They can, the same way you can leave. It's a two way street.

Right. This is the American way. You are not contractually required to stay with them and they are not contractually required to keep you. China is effectively the opposite. You can’t quit until your contract is up and they can’t fire you until it is up. I like our way better.

 

[I7guy]

Apple getting in to more ad-funded business worries me. I think Apple would follow in Google’s footsteps and take the easy money that many investors would like to see instead of staying principled. There is too much of a slippery slope. It ruined Google and I’d hate to see it ruin Apple.

Can you provide some citation that google is ruined? Or is that just your opinion?

 

[4nNtt]

Can you provide some citation that google is ruined? Or is that just your opinion?

They monetize all your personal data without a way to buy out. I’d never use a Google service and I’m sure I’m far from alone in that.

 

[4nNtt]

Given that Google has been paying Apple a notable portion of its net profits from search, it certainly looks to be quite influential in Google's opinion/data. Hardly no effect.

Additionally, if Apple chose a different search engine as the default, it would be meaningful in boosting another more privacy-friendly search company as well as in taking a public stand against a dominant company and its way of doing business. That is assuming Apple actually does care about privacy, tracking, etc. as they seem to claim. However, it may simply be that it's only a few vocal Apple customers (and not Apple itself) who feel Google is "evil."

This might be why Apple rationalizes getting in to the search business. It could be a privacy initiative. That and it may make them more than the billions Google is paying them. As long as they still allow you to pick a search engine, I would be fine with it. I would just worry that Apple might take search ads too far. It is possible Apples privacy principles would keep it from becoming another Google Search in all the worst ways, but I used to think that Apple’s brand value would keep it from tarnishing the App Store with ads… If Apple does create a search engine, I hope it will lead to searching effectively with Siri.

 

[I7guy]

They monetize all your personal data without a way to buy out. I’d never use a Google service and I’m sure I’m far from alone in that.

Thanks. I just wanted to know if it was your opinion or some respectable, well known, body of knowledge was saying that.

 

[wigby]

Apple is already in the ad business in other ways. They are also essentially already is in the search ad business by the $15+ billion deal they have with Google. I'd rather see Apple have its own successful search engine than simply be the (default) vehicle that pushes Apple users to Google search.

Apple exploring their own search engine is the same as Apple leaving China. It's more about not putting all their eggs in one basket than it is about making a better user experience. It could happen one day but it will take at least 5-10 years before they don't rely on Google as the default. In the meantime, they are happy collecting $18 billion annually while making Google look like the bad guys who collect everyone's data. No rush.

 

[DeepIn2U]

Apple's search systems, depending on where it is, can be awful. Some are good, but Apple Music is not.

Hmm.

Anyone remember how bad Apple Maps was when it first released?

1. Was it REALLY that bad?
- sure many cities were not supported, none outside of the USA: Apple was clear on this at announcement.
- only major monuments of site was supported: Apple was clear on this at announcement.
- Turn icons; the MAJOR complaint even in the icon itself was the most complained out issue during launch year.
- incorrect directions, sparse data about public transportation, and various other bugs and errors: public transit was NEVER it's initial intended target.

Forstall forced to make an apology, chose not to: fired by Cook.

2. Whom created the actual map data?
- it wasn't Apple that created the map data, not initially, it was Tom-Tom!
Q? Did Apple's team create the maps after receiving the data from Tom-Tom, or was this automatically done on the fly and misinterpreted via a team of Apple software engineers?

Should Forstall been requested to apologize for any listings in #2 above?
> No, not the the data provided by Tom Tom. Their data was supposed to be for driving and driving only at that time. No wonder directions had issues - their hardware had a much stronger & more accurate GPS chipset with dedicated power through a cigarette lighter.
> No, because either a team of software engineers creating the related map data from Tom Tom or done on the fly still means a TEAM created the Apple Maps software, NOT Forstall himself!!
> And NO again because although it was the default map app in 2012 users could switch. Wasn't hard at all.

Especially since Forstall gave us:
a) PhoneOS and iOS, remember the alternative was the Zune killer (an iPodOS for a phone. Imagine the insane lawsuit $$$ Apple would've had to pay Real, Inc then?!!!)

b) Time Machine,

c) App Store,

d) iOS Notifications,

etc.

> nah Forstall's ousting was clearly due to the power struggle fears and issues with soft-ego people at Apple used to being fluffed. My take: Eddie Cue didn't have any issues - but you don't see Eddie being fluffed by any Apple executives just poked fun at by Jozwiak and Schiller - publicly at WWDC's.

Apple had to get new data from HopStop, Embark, WifiSlam, and Locationary, as well as the team and the technology of the company BroadMap.

Then the software design changed with new more robust data.

BUT the premise was SOUND: stop pay Google exorbitant amounts for software services, which makes Google stronger and a big competitor.

Flyover = Google Maps
Street View = Apple Maps is better in implementation and accuracy,
routes and cycle routes and transit is much cleaner. Both need help in easier to understand.
example transit to a destination where you exit subway and need to grab a bus: EACH doesn't say get the "34 Eglinton East bus on the West Side / East Side" Both don't direct you to East/West.

Y? Because the data still thinks of drivers in mind, not a pedestrian.

So now .... we're 4yrs away from a Google Search competitor where many will say FAR TOO LATE APPLE! Will wee see another initial farce? Will it be hugely limited in the results? Will people be able to request incorrect, damaging/libel information to be scrubbed from search data and results?! Time will tell, but you can BET whomever presents it if it "fails" the first year at launch that THAT person will NOT be :

Forced to make an apology or else be fired. Even if it's Craig who's led a team to release a public release of macOS High Sierra Bug Allows Full Admin Access Without Password. MacOS High Sierra was released September 25, 2017! Craig was not forced to make an apology - yet it's seemingly the same level of a screw up - team or otherwise. Hmmm.

I'm looking forward to Apple's Google search competitor yet there is a lot needed to really be strong or better. More importantly I feel that THIS should not be macOS/iOS/iPadOS/WatchOS exclusive.

 

[Chazz12]

Meanwhile, could they simply add Neeva as a default search option for the OS and Safari?

I've never heard of that one. You could always send feedback to them to add it. I did to ask them to add duck duck go, and what do you know, it's an option now! haha. I'm not saying it was me, but Apple does listen to feedback. I've gotten a few calls from Tim's office about feedback I've given. Twice this year! So, if you think it's worth it, send in the feedback.

 

[Chazz12]

This might be why Apple rationalizes getting in to the search business. It could be a privacy initiative. That and it may make them more than the billions Google is paying them. As long as they still allow you to pick a search engine, I would be fine with it. I would just worry that Apple might take search ads too far. It is possible Apples privacy principles would keep it from becoming another Google Search in all the worst ways, but I used to think that Apple’s brand value would keep it from tarnishing the App Store with ads… If Apple does create a search engine, I hope it will lead to searching effectively with Siri.

I've been hoping they would make a search engine for awhile, if it was privacy focused. I don't mind ads, like in Apple News. I ask them not to track me, so they are generic. The other options that are privacy focused just don't bring the same results as Google.

 

[Ahmamies]

.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

That level of power and control needs reining in

Generally speaking, it’s not the best practice to reign in something that hasn’t happened.

Even if you don’t own a car, it’s still possible for you in the future, own one, get a license, drive, develop a taste for liquor and drive while under the influence. So, we should probably just fine you now. Actually, better idea, we’ll just make it so you legally cannot ever sit in a car again. Because, that’s the only way to guarantee that you won’t ever be driving under the influence.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

> nah Forstall's ousting was clearly due to the power struggle fears and issues with soft-ego people at Apple used to being fluffed. My take: Eddie Cue didn't have any issues - but you don't see Eddie being fluffed by any Apple executives just poked fun at by Jozwiak and Schiller - publicly at WWDC's.

Which was a HUGE loss for Apple a an enormous gain for… what was the name of that big tech company that hired Forstall to create was was pretty much the logical next step beyond the iPhone which took the world by storm? /s

 

[ct2k7]

Which was a HUGE loss for Apple a an enormous gain for… what was the name of that big tech company that hired Forstall to create was was pretty much the logical next step beyond the iPhone which took the world by storm? /s

I'm sure he has enough income advising other companies and directing plays/shows to be thinking about tech - your predicate doesn't include that he's decided to stay away.

 

[iPhoneFan5349]

Same here. Gmail is a big stumbling block for me because I use it for all my non-personal email… which is a hellscape of spam. 180+ accounts managed online, and probably more than half of them sell my email address…

Why would you use gmail? iCloud is so cool with the unlimited email Addresses

 

[MacBH928]

Facebook is facing competitive pressure from Tik-Tok (more appealing to the younger generation), declining ad spend (between ATT and economic pressures), and their disastrous foray into VR.

What's Apple going to be replaced by? Seems like they are the ones slowly stealing market share from Android, if anything.

not being replaced, just a dystopian hated company. Just like IBM in their 1984 ad.

 

[Abazigal]

not being replaced, just a dystopian hated company. Just like IBM in their 1984 ad.

I think what will happen is that Apple will continue to resonate with consumers, but (some) developers will hate Apple for their gate keeping, while continuing to develop for the iOS platform regardless because that’s where the affluent user base is.

If consumers hate Apple, they just won’t use their products, plain and simple, and Apple is cognisant enough to not let that happen.

 

[MacBH928]

I have been using DuckDuckgo for ages and it never failed to find what I was after.
Trying to De-Googlize and so far I only use Gmail and Youtube. (eventually I will replace gmail).
Sometimes Drive, but only when some collaborators use it for a project.

Same here. Gmail is a big stumbling block for me because I use it for all my non-personal email… which is a hellscape of spam. 180+ accounts managed online, and probably more than half of them sell my email address…

For Gmail I recommend ProtonMail. Very easy to switch over using their bridge app, literally drag and drop between the 2 mail boxes. There is also Tutanota which I did not test out.

For Drive, there is also ProtonDrive and Filen.io .

There is free DuckDuckGo service that gives anonymous alias for your email and paid ones from simplelogin and anonaddy to hide your real email.

If you are looking for private alternatives lookup:

Best Privacy Tools & Software Guide in in 2025

The most reliable website for privacy tools since 2015. Software, services, apps and privacy guides to fight surveillance with encryption for better internet privacy.

www.privacytools.io

The Best Privacy Tools, Services, and Ad-Free Recommendations - Privacy Guides

Privacy Guides is the most transparent and reliable website for finding software, apps, and services that protect your personal data from mass surveillance programs and other internet threats.

www.privacyguides.org

 

[MacBH928]

I think what will happen is that Apple will continue to resonate with consumers, but (some) developers will hate Apple for their gate keeping, while continuing to develop for the iOS platform regardless because that’s where the affluent user base is.

If consumers hate Apple, they just won’t use their products, plain and simple, and Apple is cognisant enough to not let that happen.

Not really, a lot of people hate facebook but continue to use Instagram and Whatsapp. I also heard Comcast is hated so much that they changed their name Xfinity but they still make lots of money and has many customers.

 

[Abazigal]

Not really, a lot of people hate facebook but continue to use Instagram and Whatsapp. I also heard Comcast is hated so much that they changed their name Xfinity but they still make lots of money and has many customers.

I see an argument for social media because that’s where all the users are. What’s the case for people continuing to stick with Apple products if they detest them so much? iMessage?

 

[nvmls]

Apple getting in to more ad-funded business worries me. I think Apple would follow in Google’s footsteps and take the easy money that many investors would like to see instead of staying principled. There is too much of a slippery slope. It ruined Google and I’d hate to see it ruin Apple. I’m already worried enough about some of Apple’s rent-seeking and ad practices. Apple needs to value their brand more then they currently do.

Lol, that ship has sailed long ago.

It's amusing their user base still bite the whole "privacy" smoke. Next day they shove ads in their face and they'll still find a new excuse to defend them.. something along the lines of "it's still better than the competition" or so, even if that means they're being completely conned over and over. They'll even happily pay premium price, because after all "if its free you are the product" remember? 🤣

Apple sued for tracking users' activity even when turned off in settings

The iPhone maker knows a lot about what a user does on their phone.

mashable.com

https://twitter.com/x/status/1588308341780262912

 

[webkit]

If 57% of the searches are mobile, then 43% are not. Those 43 % (let's call it 50%) are choosing google by default when they do a search. It's not unreasonable that there is overlap between the 57% and 43%. Hence my contention, google wins by popularity, just like Apple is popular. What we don't want to happen is to have different rules for different popularity, which is exactly what the EU did.

I disagree. People,imo, would be choosing google anyway.

Can't change the way the internet works and google paying apple doesn't change that.

Maybe.

Default search (whether mobile or desktop) plays a significant role in generating search traffic and with Apple being a major player in OS and browsers and making Google the default search on Safari, they are significantly contributing to Google's dominance in search...and have been for years.

 

[webkit]

Both companies probably must keep an uneasy balance between competition and somewhat interdependence.

Like you, and others, say, no longer being the default search engine on iOS would be a big blow to Google, although I agree with I7guy that Google is so entrenched that a lot of people would probably choose it regardless. So best case for Google might be still being the default search engine but no longer paying $15bn/pa for it. I'd be interested to see usage stats for Apple Maps vs Google Maps in that respect.

But at the same time, don't underestimate the number of people and companies using Google Services and it's in Apple's interest to make sure that iOS remains an attractive platform for Google. Ultimately, despite the overwhelming number of apps on the App Store, I do think the primary user experience is tied to an actually very small number of key services that make or break the platform for consumers and businesses. That's Google, Microsoft, Apple itself and various social media apps and banking probably. That's it.

It would be a big blow which is why Google pays Apple so much to be the default search on Safari. Apple has been "in bed" with Google going back to when Safari first launched nearly 20 years ago and has played a meaningful role in Google's search growth and success.

For a company (Apple) which has claimed to be opposed to various Google business practices when it comes to things like privacy, tracking, etc., they have in a sense endorsed those practices by making Google the default search. They have also made quite a lot of money off those practices (they "oppose") by making Google the default search.