Apple Losing Talent to Google Amid Push to Improve Spotlight and Launch Search Engine

[iPhoneFan5349]

If all Apple’s ads are doing are showing an ad for a spreadsheet app because someone’s searching for spreadsheet apps, that’s fine. The ad being shown is not based on a detailed user history that has been built and maintained over weeks. It’s just a dumb “Oh, searching for pet apps? Some companies have paid me some money to show you these other pet apps you might like”.

Ads don’t and shouldn’t have anything to do with privacy. What methods companies use to SHOW those ads to people, that’s where privacy concerns come in.

Yeah, it doesn’t seem that way though. Between the ads and the csam debacle which still hasn’t been scrapped seems like Apple is willing to be a little less private.

 

[jwdsail]

“Spotlight/Finder sucks” just means “I regularly forget what I named files”.

I hate to "yes, but.."...

But...

Yes, but, part of the point of Spotlight is to be able to search file contents, so even if I forget the name of the file, or what folder I saved an email to three years ago, if I search for a phrase that I know for a fact is in a file or the email, it should find it..

It regularly fails to do so.

 

[ackmondual]

Not sure why anyone still tries to beat Google at their own game, Microsoft tried and failed miserably. Bing is considered a joke. Don't see a different path for Apple, Google has years of collecting data headstart.

FWIW, Bing wasn't trying to overtake Google. They were perfectly happy just to take some share. Akin to Apple TV+. Their goal isn't to outdo Netflix, or all the other major streaming services. They just want to add value to Apple One, or get some people to sub a la carte.

 

[Abazigal]

Not sure why anyone still tries to beat Google at their own game, Microsoft tried and failed miserably. Bing is considered a joke. Don't see a different path for Apple, Google has years of collecting data headstart.

Thing is - you don’t need to beat Google at their game. You just need to be “good enough” to make people consider your alternative.

For example, Google maps may have more features than Apple Maps, but I don’t really need or use all of them, and so I am content using Apple Maps like 95% of the time, and then I open Google maps for those few times when Apple Maps is not cutting it (like when I am overseas).

I am using DDG in safari as well. I do sometimes use Google search when DDG doesn’t suffice, but as you can see, it’s entirely possible to demote Google services to 2nd or 3rd, or even completely wean yourselves off them entirely.

 

[dysamoria]

I find it pretty funny that for all the people complaining about how Tim Cook does his job, Apple seems the most stable of its peers. Some are going to say that it’s because they act like a monopoly. Well, Google gets labeled as a monopoly. Microsoft is just as big and is entrenched. They all have varying degrees of issues.

This stuff is hard and no matter what, imperfect.

We are FAR below merely “imperfect”.

Ultimately, I could care less about these companies.

*couldn't care less

I’m more concerned with the employees getting laid off right before the holidays. Apple isn’t doing it, so that’s a good sign in my book.

Agreed, and abuse of workers just keeps getting worse overall.

 

[dysamoria]

It’s funny that when Apple didn’t have a search engine, people were pushing for Apple to develop one to give users an alternative to Google.

Now that news breaks of Apple reportedly trying to do so, they are accused of wanting to farm our user data for themselves.

Apple just can’t win, and it goes back to my burgeoning theory about how, as Apple goes on to be more and more successful, the haters are shifting their narrative from how Apple is doomed at the hands of countless android OEMS and shrinking market share, to blasting Apple for presumably being too rich and greedy.

Anything to avoid admitting they were wrong all along, and anything to avoid giving Apple the proper credit where credit is due.

Things change in culture over time, and the people in your group A aren’t necessarily in your group B.

 

[dysamoria]

Nothing is wrong with them making a search engine, it's the data-mining that's the issue, and a separate issue from whether they have a search engine or not

Agreed, except I don’t want them to further diworsify.

 

[dysamoria]

Apple is having an HR problem. Something is rotting inside. When Apple is so willing to just let go their own ML head just because WFO policy, it showed something is not working in their HR team. Any normal company would try to negotiate, but Apple seems to just "oh too bad, bye." It's no longer about keeping talent, it's about top-down policies, it seems.

Wall Street pathology has metastasized.

 

[macduke]

Apple absolutely could be competitive in this space, but they're too cheap to pay the talent to work there. Search doesn't generate a 60% profit margin like iPhone.

 

[dysamoria]

Yes you do. Apple knows that having a major competitor control a large part of your user experience is dangerous. Especially one that has proven time and time again they will turn and bite you without warning.

Apple has bitten us too… and seems more likely to start biting more often…

 

[dysamoria]

Who knows, maybe Apple search would not be monetised at all.

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha… 😆😂🤣

Sorry…

Why else would they do it? To stop getting money from Google?

 

[Mr. Dee]

On the other hand Google had no problem to develop a smartphone. So Google attacked Apple on its territory. It makes sense for Apple to retaliate.

Smartphones existed before the iPhone: Nokia N97, Blackberry, Windows Mobile.

 

[Abazigal]

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha…

Sorry…

Why else would they do it? To stop getting money from Google?

Apple could make their search engine subscription-based, or roll it into Apple One.

It could also be a hedge in case Google ever stopped paying Apple, either due to regulatory concerns or because Google feels they don’t need to go through Apple anymore.

You don’t always wait till things turn bad before scrambling for a solution. Sometimes, you develop a trump card first, then hide it in your sleeve for the right time to play.

I can see the merit of Apple developing one, or at least be seen to be developing one.

 

[SoldOnApple]

Buy DuckDuckGo. An Apple search engine would be a good thing, I'm always conscious that my Google searches are giving Google more info to profile me with to sell for ads. Even using Google maps I can't help but be aware that Google is keeping tabs on my location.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

Yeah, it doesn’t seem that way though. Between the ads and the csam debacle which still hasn’t been scrapped seems like Apple is willing to be a little less private.

I’m sure if it wasn’t that way, advertisers would be letting us know (as ANY news about Apple travels far and wide ) For example, if Apple’s ad purchase process only allows advertisers to define keywords, then that’s all they’re using to direct ads. Even a “person interested in music apps” I’d consider that they’re tapping into folks’ purchase history and a step too far.

I suppose I could sign up as an advertiser to see what they provide!

 

[Unregistered 4U]

Smartphones existed before the iPhone: Nokia N97, Blackberry, Windows Mobile.

To be fair, though, Google wasn’t on the boards of those companies

 

[JippaLippa]

Always good to see search engine options different from Google and Bing. Apple should make their own search engine.

I have been using DuckDuckgo for ages and it never failed to find what I was after.
Trying to De-Googlize and so far I only use Gmail and Youtube. (eventually I will replace gmail).
Sometimes Drive, but only when some collaborators use it for a project.

 

[dysamoria]

How would you see the system change?

Business people, executives, “investors”, whatever… ought to be happy with lots of money and market share, instead of pushing to have all the money, all of the market, and every market. A rational and sustainable society would regulate this. Instead, greed rules.

Greed is abundant in those our culture elevates to wealth and power (sociopathy isn’t filtered out; it’s rewarded).

The USA has made a religion out of laissez-faire capitalism. Some of its followers see nothing wrong with greed and will tell you you’re “being political” or “woke” when criticizing participants of it.

We are all heading to a cliff, and the people driving the process have fans that defend their every act, and seemingly enjoy most those acts that seem the cruelest.

Greed is irrational; it’s unsustainable and destructive. Instead of treating it as an antisocial personality disorder that needs constraint, deserving of shunning, it becomes celebrity (I’m definitely referencing the “Chief Twit”, here, but many others fit). Despite obvious irrationality in the behavior and actions of these people, the fans actively promote them as “logical” and “telling it like it is”.

The callous & bizarre antisocial nihilism is appalling.

 

[dysamoria]

There are, literally, billions of people that have never touched an Apple device. Apple biggest goal has to be to convince folks that have NEVER bought an Apple product to buy one (because the market of “people that have never bought an Apple product” has a huge upside).

To consider that the Apple market is “just folks that have bought Apple products before” ignores that fact, and it would be nonsensical for them to ONLY try selling to folks that already have Apple devices… because, eventually everyone today that currently owns an Apple device, won’t be buying another one.

Do you see people adopting Apple products at this point? Most people I know who haven’t by now seem pretty adamant about that position.

 

[dysamoria]

Interesting. So you still reward a company with your currency that you believe is evil. That's something I would never do or be willing to compromise on.

There's still time for you to do the right thing. Just do it.

You’re missing the point, I think:

There’s no choice between good and evil if we want to have these tools at all. Having these devices and using these services has become much less optional. It’s like picking “between” the one ISP in your region, or one of the duopoly political parties (both suck, but one is definitely worse; supporting the lesser evil helps push against the greater evil).

 

[dysamoria]

That's the silliest thing I've heard here in a couple of days.

Apple products are not doomed as evidenced by their customer sales, the majority being repeat. Apple manufacturing 600,000+ iPhones per day, every day of the year (on the average), speaks volumes.

And though you might feel doomed personally as a user, try not to project your feelings on the hundreds of millions of other Apple users.

I’m not going to try to explain why sales isn’t the metric by which to measure any of this. 🙄

 

[dysamoria]

Apple still makes great hardware but the software is subpar. Android has surpassed them in every possible way except privacy which is why I use Apple. But even in privacy it seems Apple is going the google’s way with all the ad business they are pushing lately. So once privacy is gone there’s really no reason to use Apple.

I agree and disagree. Apple’s software is suffering from bad design and lack of quality control, but everyone else’s is still worse.

 

[dysamoria]

Apple could make their search engine subscription-based, or roll it into Apple One.

It could also be a hedge in case Google ever stopped paying Apple, either due to regulatory concerns or because Google feels they don’t need to go through Apple anymore.

You don’t always wait till things turn bad before scrambling for a solution. Sometimes, you develop a trump card first, then hide it in your sleeve for the right time to play.

I can see the merit of Apple developing one, or at least be seen to be developing one.

Fair points. No argument.

 

[dysamoria]

I have been using DuckDuckgo for ages and it never failed to find what I was after.
Trying to De-Googlize and so far I only use Gmail and Youtube. (eventually I will replace gmail).
Sometimes Drive, but only when some collaborators use it for a project.

Same here. Gmail is a big stumbling block for me because I use it for all my non-personal email… which is a hellscape of spam. 180+ accounts managed online, and probably more than half of them sell my email address…

 

[Abazigal]

Do you see people adopting Apple products at this point? Most people I know who haven’t by now seem pretty adamant about that position.

Apple reportedly has over a billion active iPhone users at this point, and I see this install base continue to grow over time, between Apple making iPhones available at a wide variety of price points, and the refurbished iPhone market (typically when people sell off their existing iPhones to fund the purchase of a new one).

While Apple doesn't necessarily earn from the sales of second hand iPhones, these users are still in a position to purchase additional apple products and services. Apple earns when they spend on apps. Apple even gets a cut out of every Apple Pay transaction they make.

I think Apple's biggest challenge is whether they can make enough to meet demand, not so much about where people are willing to adopt their products or not.