Apple Losing Talent to Google Amid Push to Improve Spotlight and Launch Search Engine

[Unregistered 4U]

Do you see people adopting Apple products at this point? Most people I know who haven’t by now seem pretty adamant about that position.

According to Apple, 50% of the folks buying iPads and Macs are new to them. And, they’ve been saying this consistently for a number of years now. I’m actually listening for them to NOT say this at one of their announcement events. That, to me, will be an indicator that, for whatever reason, in that cycle, they mostly sold to folks that already own devices (maybe by 60% or more?). If that then were to become a lasting pattern, THAT’S when I’d guess they’re missing a mark somewhere.

 

[MacBH928]

Apple search sucks, even the itunes one. Google make it seem so simple until you try Itunes or Twitter search. Bing is not bad, not bad at all.

Any one looking for a more privately alternative checkout Brave Search
If you like, check out Mojeek , its independent but a horrible results imo!

The following are not independent search engines but work like a middle man between you and Google&Bing :-

DuckDuckGo (Bing) , StartPage (Google) , and for fun Metager they claim they do not collect your data.

Always good to see search engine options different from Google and Bing. Apple should make their own search engine.

Check the options above

OMG...the sky is falling. Again, according to the experts here. Will Apple survive? Keep your pearls nearby. The Apple is doomed tsunami is coming!

Apple will survive and flourish financially, they will just become another Facebook

Apple search generally sucks:

Spotlight search sucks
Finder search sucks
Siri search sucks
Apple Music search sucks
AppStore search sucks
Network Share search sucks

What's left to suck?

When I search for files, I simply open the terminal and use "find ./ -iname '*filename*'" command, it's at least reliable.

Checkout FindAnyFiles app

 

[citysnaps]

Apple will survive and flourish financially, they will just become another Facebook

Fascinating! I didn't know Apple had a Facebook-like social media platform, or that Facebook creates their own high-performance multicore cpu/gpu SOCs.

 

[krspkbl]

I suppose Apple making a search engine is fine. Anything to kick Google down. I haven't used Google search as my main engine in years but it's disgusting how much it is still used. Same goes for Chrome.

The only thing that concerns me is that Tim sees this as a way to show us more ads. I don't like this road apple are going down.

Until Apple figure out how to make a search engine there are plenty other options. Google search is trash. People like to laugh at Bing but it's actually not bad. You also have other search engines like Duckduckgo if you want more privacy (you can also easily search Google by putting !g before your search), there is Brave, Ecosia (uses money it makes to plant trees), Qwant, Startpage.

It might take a while to adjust but once you do you'll likely never go back to Google again. Give it a try and if you want to go back to sharing your life with Google you can.

 

[Ginginova]

I wonder if Apple dropped some heavy cash to poach engineers, like I’m sure Google does to maintain their place at the top of searching, then they would be able retain top talent.

If I am not mistaken many from internal AI team left Apple due to not being allowed to keep working from home.
They joined Google and other companies who still allow employees to keep working remotely.

We are not in 1981 anymore.

 

[_Spinn_]

I will be very surprised if Apple actually comes out with a search engine.

 

[TheOldChevy]

That is what happens when the guy in charge only cares about money and hardware supply.

The person in charge should be tech aware and understand the software supply chain. Clearly that does not exist at Apple. With services becoming more important it is time for a change.

Change for what ?

 

[TheOldChevy]

It's kind of sad how Apple buys these companies and then essentially lets the tech die on the vine, as evidenced by how many of the employees leave Apple soon after.

This is not specific to Apple. It happens with most M&A.

 

[Abazigal]

Apple will survive and flourish financially, they will just become another Facebook

Facebook is facing competitive pressure from Tik-Tok (more appealing to the younger generation), declining ad spend (between ATT and economic pressures), and their disastrous foray into VR.

What's Apple going to be replaced by? Seems like they are the ones slowly stealing market share from Android, if anything.

 

[d686546s]

I see it as the difference between a fact and an opinion.

For example, it's one thing to be unhappy over recent price hikes to Apple Music and TV+. But I also feel there is value in analysing why Apple is doing so for our own learning, rather than automatically writing everything off as "Because Apple is greedy" or making the same old tired argument that "Apple can afford to subsidise these price hikes with so much money in the bank, therefore they should do so".

I feel it's disingenuous. These are very superficial comments that frankly add little of value to the current discussion, and when everyone starts parroting the same refrain, you end up with one giant echo chamber. This basically sums up the bulk of comments here, and frankly, I do find it disappointing and frustrating.

Hate on Apple all they want. At least hate right.

I don't fundamentally disagree, but let's not pretend that there is a clear line that can be drawn between fact and opinion that would make a lot of sense in some of these discussions.

You mention Apple's recent price hikes and, without any further insight, the 20th person to mention inflation and foreign exchange rates was about as original as the 20th person to mention greed -- and coincidentally they are probably both partly right.

You can of course find very rational arguments beyond greed for why Apple had to increase its prices to compensate for wider economic trends, but Apple's profit margins aren't set in stone or dictated down by the holy god of capitalism. They are, to some extent, a choice. The only fact we know is that Apple raised its prices, the rest is all our own personal interpretation.

I'm absolutely with you that some of the discussion can be shallow, frustrating, disappointing and the battle of the echo chambers. I'm not referring to you personally, but I just don't see this restricted to the 'haters.' There's parrots on both sides

 

[Bonte]

Apple needs search as a backup but it’s hard to keep talent on a backup project, they rather work on the real thing.

 

[Mrkevinfinnerty]

Facebook is facing competitive pressure from Tik-Tok (more appealing to the younger generation), declining ad spend (between ATT and economic pressures), and their disastrous foray into VR.

What's Apple going to be replaced by? Seems like they are the ones slowly stealing market share from Android, if anything.

Nothing. Nobody while we are in the 'smartphone paradigm' for want of a better way of describing it.

Nobody is disrupting the iOS/Android/Apple/Samsung hegemony. The install bases are too big and ecosystems too pervasive. All that does is underscore the need for a degree of regulation of these markets.

We have two players, Apple and Google, who control the market and landscape for other businesses in the mobile space.

There is also the suspicion that they collude to further solidify their market power.

 

[Abazigal]

Nothing. Nobody while we are in the 'smartphone paradigm' for want of a better way of describing it.

Nobody is disrupting the iOS/Android/Apple/Samsung hegemony. The install bases are too big and ecosystems too pervasive. All that does is underscore the need for a degree of regulation of these markets.

We have two players, Apple and Google, who control the market and landscape for other businesses in the mobile space.

There is also the suspicion that they collude to further solidify their market power.

I am not against regulation when there is a need for it, but I don’t think the current laws are adequate in addressing them. There is the concern of larger developers / stakeholders crying “unfair” when they really mean “not to my advantage”. There is also the risk of consumers being harmed if too many concessions end up being made to developers who have vested interests in seeing the current App Store model burnt down to the ground, just so they can replace it with one of their own.

In summary, I feel that many of the proposed changes to regulate Apple are brought about more by a desire to “stick it to Apple”, and not enough consideration has been given to the impact on consumers.

 

[Mrkevinfinnerty]

I am not against regulation when there is a need for it, but I don’t think the current laws are adequate in addressing them. There is the concern of larger developers / stakeholders crying “unfair” when they really mean “not to my advantage”. There is also the risk of consumers being harmed if too many concessions end up being made to developers who have vested interests in seeing the current App Store model burnt down to the ground, just so they can replace it with one of their own.

In summary, I feel that many of the proposed changes to regulate Apple are brought about more by a desire to “stick it to Apple”, and not enough consideration has been given to the impact on consumers.

The issue is that Apple and Google simply have far too much power over the current computing landscape.

Uber are a $58 billion business but if Google and Apple decided they didn't want them to exist they could probably make that happen in fairly short order. That really isn't good.

That level of power and control needs reining in

 

[JM]

If I am not mistaken many from internal AI team left Apple due to not being allowed to keep working from home.
They joined Google and other companies who still allow employees to keep working remotely.

We are not in 1981 anymore.

Ahhhh. No wonder google can’t design any elegant UX, and constantly cancel apps/programs.

 

[webkit]

True, each of us can have a different viewpoint. But it’s my opinion that when faced with a choice of search engine the dominant one would be chosen anyway.

It wouldn’t matter based on the above graphic. So they might as well get paid anyway.

So, everyone (including Apple) should just give up? Safari has about 34% share of the U.S. browser market and 19% share of the global browser market. By choosing a different search engine as the default on Safari, they could've been chipping away at Google's dominance for years.

Sure, but why should they? It’s not like apple is locking out any competition.

No, this is not like alternative app stores on iOS where Apple is blocking out competition. However, Apple being able to create a successful, profitable search business and reduce Google's dominance in search could be a good thing. Google is an Apple competitor in software, hardware, etc. and any opportunity Apple has to take business away from Google can be a positive for the company.

Whether or not Apple would be able to achieve meaningful success in the search business and use it to help other new or existing Apple products/services is the unknown. If they are unable to make it a success then I'd rather see them have a different search engine than Google as the default instead of continuing to feed Google's dominance.

 

[I7guy]

So, everyone (including Apple) should just give up? Safari has about 34% share of the U.S. browser market and 19% share of the global browser market. By choosing a different search engine as the default on Safari, they could've been chipping away at Google's dominance for years.

Or not. Nothing apple has done is illegal. According to this https://www.cloudwards.net/search-engine-statistics/ 57% is the searches is mobile. Given googles popularity changing the defaults in iOS would likely have no effect.

No, this is not like alternative app stores on iOS where Apple is blocking out competition. However, Apple being able to create a successful, profitable search business and reduce Google's dominance in search could be a good thing. Google is an Apple competitor in software, hardware, etc. and any opportunity Apple has to take business away from Google can be a positive for the company.

As I said above, specifying the default would likely have little impact. You may argue little is better than none, but as long as what apple and google are doing is legit, why should they change to appease some internet posters?

Whether or not Apple would be able to achieve meaningful success in the search business and use it to help other new or existing Apple products/services is the unknown. If they are unable to make it a success then I'd rather see them have a different search engine than Google as the default instead of continuing to feed Google's dominance.

Unless Apple goes into the search engine business, it’s my contention that offering a default option would have people choosing google anyway. Those that already want the default would be changing it to what they want.

 

[I7guy]

If I am not mistaken many from internal AI team left Apple due to not being allowed to keep working from home.
They joined Google and other companies who still allow employees to keep working remotely.

We are not in 1981 anymore.

Well these people won’t get a job at twitter. Welcome to 2023.

 

[I7guy]

The issue is that Apple and Google simply have far too much power over the current computing landscape.

Uber are a $58 billion business but if Google and Apple decided they didn't want them to exist they could probably make that happen in fairly short order. That really isn't good.

That level of power and control needs reining in

You mean the same way your company can fire you for virtually little cause in at-will employment locations.

 

[Ginginova]

Well these people won’t get a job at twitter. Welcome to 2023.

No one cares for Twitter. Yet reality is that Google pouched some of best Apple AI talent just for the sakes of allowing them to work remotely.

 

[Ginginova]

Ahhhh. No wonder google can’t design any elegant UX, and constantly cancel apps/programs.

Siri is not about elegant UX. It is about elegant AI.

 

[I7guy]

No one cares for Twitter. Yet reality is that Google pouched some of best Apple AI talent just for the sakes of allowing them to work remotely.

Well the people who work at twitter care about twitter. And good luck to google, the pendulum will swing back. Apple already made its stance related to wfh known.

 

[webkit]

Or not. Nothing apple has done is illegal. According to this https://www.cloudwards.net/search-engine-statistics/ 57% is the searches is mobile. Given googles popularity changing the defaults in iOS would likely have no effect.

As I said above, specifying the default would likely have little impact. You may argue little is better than none, but as long as what apple and google are doing is legit, why should they change to appease some internet posters?

Unless Apple goes into the search engine business, it’s my contention that offering a default option would have people choosing google anyway. Those that already want the default would be changing it to what they want.

Given that Google has been paying Apple a notable portion of its net profits from search, it certainly looks to be quite influential in Google's opinion/data. Hardly no effect.

Additionally, if Apple chose a different search engine as the default, it would be meaningful in boosting another more privacy-friendly search company as well as in taking a public stand against a dominant company and its way of doing business. That is assuming Apple actually does care about privacy, tracking, etc. as they seem to claim. However, it may simply be that it's only a few vocal Apple customers (and not Apple itself) who feel Google is "evil."

 

[I7guy]

Given that Google has been paying Apple a notable portion of its net profits from search, it certainly looks to be quite influential in Google's opinion/data. Hardly no effect.

If 57% of the searches are mobile, then 43% are not. Those 43 % (let's call it 50%) are choosing google by default when they do a search. It's not unreasonable that there is overlap between the 57% and 43%. Hence my contention, google wins by popularity, just like Apple is popular. What we don't want to happen is to have different rules for different popularity, which is exactly what the EU did.

Additionally, if Apple chose a different search engine as the default, it would be meaningful in boosting another more privacy-friendly search company as well as in taking a public stand against a dominant company and its way of doing business.

I disagree. People,imo, would be choosing google anyway.

That is assuming Apple actually does care about privacy, tracking, etc. as they seem to claim.

Can't change the way the internet works and google paying apple doesn't change that.

However, it may simply be that it's only a few vocal Apple customers (and not Apple itself) who feel Google is "evil."

Maybe.

 

[d686546s]

Given that Google has been paying Apple a notable portion of its net profits from search, it certainly looks to be quite influential in Google's opinion/data. Hardly no effect.

Additionally, if Apple chose a different search engine as the default, it would be meaningful in boosting another more privacy-friendly search company as well as in taking a public stand against a dominant company and its way of doing business. That is assuming Apple actually does care about privacy, tracking, etc. as they seem to claim. However, it may simply be that it's only a few vocal Apple customers (and not Apple itself) who feel Google is "evil."

Both companies probably must keep an uneasy balance between competition and somewhat interdependence.

Like you, and others, say, no longer being the default search engine on iOS would be a big blow to Google, although I agree with I7guy that Google is so entrenched that a lot of people would probably choose it regardless. So best case for Google might be still being the default search engine but no longer paying $15bn/pa for it. I'd be interested to see usage stats for Apple Maps vs Google Maps in that respect.

But at the same time, don't underestimate the number of people and companies using Google Services and it's in Apple's interest to make sure that iOS remains an attractive platform for Google. Ultimately, despite the overwhelming number of apps on the App Store, I do think the primary user experience is tied to an actually very small number of key services that make or break the platform for consumers and businesses. That's Google, Microsoft, Apple itself and various social media apps and banking probably. That's it.