Apple Music Now Rolling Out Support for Spatial Audio and Lossless Audio

[CommanderCute]

I have two questions and maybe someone can help regarding Lossless on macOS and the Qudelix 5K DAC.

1. The Qudelix is a 24 Bit/96 Khz USB DAC and I can choose in Apple Music between Lossless (up to 24 Bit/48 kHz) and High Resolution Lossless (up to 24 Bit/196 kHz).
Which should I choose for the Qudelix?

I read that it always upsamples to 196 kHz and that's bad or worse than the lower setting. Is this true?


2. No matter what I choose in Apple Music (256 AAC, Lossless or High Resolution Lossless), in the Qudelix app under "input -> state" there's always (!) Codec: Lossless, Sample Rate 96 kHz and Bits Per Sample 24 Bit.
The sample rate in the macOS system information is also always 96 kHz.

Why isn't this different when I choose different formats in Apple Music?

 

[thettareddast]

I have two questions and maybe someone can help regarding Lossless on macOS and the Qudelix 5K DAC.

1. The Qudelix is a 24 Bit/96 Khz USB DAC and I can choose in Apple Music between Lossless (up to 24 Bit/48 kHz) and High Resolution Lossless (up to 24 Bit/196 kHz).
Which should I choose for the Qudelix?

I read that it always upsamples to 196 kHz and that's bad or worse than the lower setting. Is this true?


2. No matter what I choose in Apple Music (256 AAC, Lossless or High Resolution Lossless), in the Qudelix app under "input -> state" there's always (!) Codec: Lossless, Sample Rate 96 kHz and Bits Per Sample 24 Bit.
The sample rate in the macOS system information is also always 96 kHz.

Why isn't this different when I choose different formats in Apple Music?

in the app setting you're not forcing a particular stream... the option is "up to" a certain quality. in handshake between device and dac 24-bit/96khz, so that's the most apple music will pull down.

i dont think itll upsample. even if did, with a doubling of the frequency, there'll be no aliasing or other unwanted effects

 

[CommanderCute]

in the app setting you're not forcing a particular stream... the option is "up to" a certain quality. in handshake between device and dac 24-bit/96khz, so that's the most apple music will pull down.

i dont think itll upsample. even if did, with a doubling of the frequency, there'll be no aliasing or other unwanted effects

Thanks for your answer.

Do you also know, why the Qudelix app and the system information of the MacBook always state 96 kHz as the sample rate, no matter which setting I choose in the music app?

Also the audio-MIDI-setup is locked on 24 Bit/96 kHz, can't change this setting as others suggested in this thread.

 

[Shanghaichica]

Dolby atmos works well with Mariah Carey songs. It brings out the backing vocals which are multi layered and like a wall of sound.

 

[jsamuelson]

AirPods Pro cannot play lossless because bluetooth does not support lossless. But sounds like you are having fun, and that's what matters.

This is a bit condescending...a number of people have made reference to the Bluetooth stream sounding better (or at least noticeably different) when the source file is lossless as supposed to lossy. It's entirely possible that different levels of up/downsampling and/or compression applied to different source files result in a better or worse sounding track, subjectively.

I'm waiting for a smart audio engineer to come along and analyse it all!

 

[B/D]

Anyone else finding "lossless" is coming and going today?

e.g. Taylor Swift's latest album shows as lossless, Apple Digital Master and Atmos. But when I play a track, only Atmos shows up in the badges. I have lossless turned on in settings.

It was working yesterday, but today I can't get lossless at all.

If you have Atmos enabled in the music settings, you won´t get lossless on Atmos albums, because the Atmos stream is lossy (normal for streaming services). To get lossless (albeit stereo), you need to turn off Atmos.

 

[B/D]

The Atmos streams are probably encoded in dolby digital plus.

 

[brezz]

If you have Atmos enabled in the music settings, you won´t get lossless on Atmos albums, because the Atmos stream is lossy (normal for streaming services). To get lossless (albeit stereo), you need to turn off Atmos.

So if you have both Atmos and lossless turned on, will it just default back to Atmos (obviously assuming that’s available for the track)?

Brian

 

[B/D]

With the lossless audio setting enabled and after removing the download of a matched song, the Music app lets you play/download a DRM'd lossless version of that song (if available). Should probably make sure to hold on to a backup of the original file though.

Nop, it does not. Lossless/Atmos is currently available only for the Apple Music streaming catalog. Itunes purchases and Icloud Music Library uploads still are AAC 256kbps files.

You also don´t get a DRM copy if you delete and re download a matched song from Apple Music. You get an AAC 256kbps file DRM free. This is because since 2016, Apple Music matching algorithm works with the Itunes Store catalog, not the Apple Music one.

 

[B/D]

So if you have both Atmos and lossless turned on, will it just default back to Atmos (obviously assuming that’s available for the track)?

Brian

Correct.

 

[beanbaguk]

I just tested this with my B&W PX headphones.

Absolutely phenomenal. And at no extra cost.

TIDAL is dead.

 

[tkermit]

Nop, it does not. Lossless/Atmos is currently available only for the Apple Music streaming catalog. Itunes purchases and Icloud Music Library uploads still are AAC 256kbps files.

You also don´t get a DRM copy if you delete and re download a matched song from Apple Music. You get an AAC 256kbps file DRM free. This is because since 2016, Apple Music matching algorithm works with the Itunes Store catalog, not the Apple Music one.

Not true in my experience. While uploaded files indeed continue to be (at best) 256kbps AACs, matched songs whose local copy you've deleted do download/stream as lossless audio if available and enabled in Settings. Make sure that the album (in your library – not on AM) shows a "lossless" label. You can also check the Get Info window after you've deleted the local copy to see whether a lossless version of that song/match is available.

 

[AppleUser2]

I just tested this with my B&W PX headphones.

Absolutely phenomenal. And at no extra cost.

TIDAL is dead.

Was that via wired?

 

[Bobosita]

If the song is originally in Dolby Atmos, you can listen to it in Spatial Audio, if not, then you can listen to it in Spatialise Stereo or without it... Am i right?

 

[B/D]

Not true in my experience. While uploaded files indeed continue to be (at best) 256kbps AACs, matched songs whose local copy you've deleted do download/stream as lossless audio if available and enabled in Settings. Make sure that the album (in your library – not on AM) shows a "lossless" label. You can also check the Get Info window after you've deleted the local copy to see whether a lossless version of that song/match is available.

View attachment 1789992

This contradicts what Apple said, that lossless would be exclusive to the Apple Music catalog. Wonderful news!. The ideal thing, of course, would be that if you upload an album in ALAC that is not present in the Apple Music catalogue, you should be able to play it back from the cloud as is, instead of it being converted to AAC 256kbps.

Step by step, I guess.

 

[thettareddast]

Thanks for your answer.

Do you also know, why the Qudelix app and the system information of the MacBook always state 96 kHz as the sample rate, no matter which setting I choose in the music app?

Also the audio-MIDI-setup is locked on 24 Bit/96 kHz, can't change this setting as others suggested in this thread.

audio MIDI setup reflects the pipeline between your computer and DAC - which is max 24b/96 kHz.

in the Apple Music App you are requesting to pull up to 24/192khz, but that wont happen if you dont have enough internet bandwidth, or the song is not available in that format, etc etc.

its mostly an academic worry though.

 

[CommanderCute]

audio MIDI setup reflects the pipeline between your computer and DAC - which is max 24b/96 kHz.

in the Apple Music App you are requesting to pull up to 24/192khz, but that wont happen if you dont have enough internet bandwidth, or the song is not available in that format, etc etc.

its mostly an academic worry though.

Thanks.

Then I just leave it at Lossless 24 Bit/48 kHz.

 

[beanbaguk]

Was that via wired?

No, I've not tried with USB-C yet. I plan to later today when I have some more time.

However, the B&W PX uses AptX HD which is capable of 48kHz, 24bit audio which is about as close to lossless as you will get through a compression algorithm.

Regardless of anything, the quality difference is absolutely there and very distinguishable.

ETA.....ok, right after I wrote the above, I plugged in my iPad USB-C cable to the headphones and disabled the Bluetooth connection so they are connected digitally through USB.

I can't tell the difference between wired and wireless to be honest. Wired is louder, but I think that is down to the Bluetooth levels and frankly, I don't play it loud anyway.

I've also noticed there aren't that many tracks over 44.1kHz. I've seen a few 48kHz tracks, but all are 24bit which increases the fidelity significantly, but more importantly, the compression is massively reduced and there are just elements of audio that you simply don't hear enriching the overall sound.

Granted you are not going to hear this on a set of Airpods, but a good set of cans really does bring this out.

 

[bluespark]

Meatloaf-I’d Do Anything For Love (But I Won’t Do That)

It is only in “Lossless” but no one can convince me that we are not getting some benefit from lossless on AirPods Pro because the whole song sounds absolutely amazing, but the intro of the song is probably the best sound quality I have ever heard on Apple Music!

Someone else please give it a listen and let me know if I am crazy, haha.

It's possible, yes. When dealing with compressed audio vs. lossless audio, the question is always whether the compression has removed anything actually audible. Once upon a time, compression wasn't that great, and the answer often was yes. Now, something like the AAC compression that Apple Music uses is already very good, which is why compressed audio may be good enough for most users -- and, in fact, most are unlikely to hear any difference. Bluetooth complicates this further because it cannot handle all of the data associated with a lossless file, which means some will get lost no matter what. The end result will be "lossy," but -- depending on how it is transmitted from the phone -- probably still different from an AAC-compressed file.

 

[tkermit]

This contradicts what Apple said, that lossless would be exclusive to the Apple Music catalog. Wonderful news!. The ideal thing, of course, would be that if you upload an album in ALAC that is not present in the Apple Music catalogue, you should be able to play it back from the cloud as is, instead of it being converted to AAC 256kbps.

Step by step, I guess.

yeah, unfortunately that's the one remaining piece of the puzzle.. They've given us more than I would have expected though. I'm actually re-adding some songs to my library that had previously been uploaded but that now have matches, just so I can listen to the lossless version on iOS.

 

[bluespark]

Spatial Audio for Music just doesn't work. I get the Dolby Atmos logo and everything but the Spatial Audio animation in control centers stays static. When I try the demo videos, it actually works. I can hear the sound coming from specific direction when I move my head. With music I don't get the same feeling.
I think it's a messy release and we just have to wait.

If you're seeing the Dolby Atmos logo, you're getting it. But that does not mean the sound will seem to come from a specific direction when you move your head. It's not the same as what you might experience from a video. The "spatial" aspect is the separation between different sounds and the ambiance (reverb, etc.) that are captured and presented via the Atmos technology.

I suggest starting with some of Apple's introductory tracks where they play the same thing in stereo and spatial, or toggling on and off the spatial audio in your music preferences while you listen.

 

[AppleUser2]

No, I've not tried with USB-C yet. I plan to later today when I have some more time.

However, the B&W PX uses AptX HD which is capable of 48kHz, 24bit audio which is about as close to lossless as you will get through a compression algorithm.

Regardless of anything, the quality difference is absolutely there and very distinguishable.

ETA.....ok, right after I wrote the above, I plugged in my iPad USB-C cable to the headphones and disabled the Bluetooth connection so they are connected digitally through USB.

I can't tell the difference between wired and wireless to be honest. Wired is louder, but I think that is down to the Bluetooth levels and frankly, I don't play it loud anyway.

I've also noticed there aren't that many tracks over 44.1kHz. I've seen a few 48kHz tracks, but all are 24bit which increases the fidelity significantly, but more importantly, the compression is massively reduced and there are just elements of audio that you simply don't hear enriching the overall sound.

Granted you are not going to hear this on a set of Airpods, but a good set of cans really does bring this out.

Yeah. I think the big change is just the jump to lossless. The Hi-Res jump is nowhere near as big. Glad to hear (no pun) your enjoying the difference. I still think Apple have some work to do here on notifications, compatibility with DACs etc but ultimately this is all being provided at no extra cost so overall I’m pleased to get Lossless (via wired for me).

 

[DotCom2]

This is what I was looking for! Thanks!

You are welcome. So far from all the tunes I listened to, that very old song shows off the separation of voices and music so well and shows how well they can re-master an old song for this. I can't wait to hear new songs that have been made especaily for this effect. Gonna be some good listening here in the future!

 

[bluespark]

A couple of questions...

Turning on Spatial Audio adds a layer over Dolby Atmos right? My "super old" 9.7 iPad pro does not have the feature (spatial audio) yet can still play Atmos...

Also, do you have "follow iPhone" off? Its weird for the sound of music to change around like a movie would...

No and no. If your device is showing the Atmos logo, it is playing spatial audio. But because this feature is audio-specific (not what might be done for a movie soundtrack, for example), it does not follow the iPhone. Rather, the sound presentation is spatial, via Atmos.

 

[bluespark]

Anyone know if a digital (say, HDMI) connection from an AppleTV 4K to a Dolby Atmos capable receiver will provide the necessary information for a true Atmos presentation of spatial music? And what about lossless? Can the same connection provide the lossless file to the receiver's DAC or another external DAC? Or, even better, the Hi-Def lossless file?

Similar questions for iPhone/Mac output. For example, I'd like to get Hi-Def lossless to a BlueSound Node. Any good way to do that? I *think* AirPlay 2 supports lossless transmission, but I'm almost sure it doesn't currently support Hi-Def lossless transmission.