Apple Music Renames Hip-Hop Playlist to 'Rap Life'

[Bawstun]

I remember when Apple Music was announced years ago that they were marketing it for having expertly “human curated” recommendations. Tim Cook even said that the human curation was a large part of the reasons why Apple spent so much money acquiring Beats (since Beats had introduced their own music streaming app). I bought the marketing hype and did the free trial. It was total lies. The recommendations were to listen to more stuff by artists I already bought music of. Not a single worthwhile recommendation came of it. I cancelled the subscription. I guess if you’re into top 40 pop and hip hop, then the “discovery” in Apple Music might actually be a thing for you, but if you’re into other stuff like 50s and 60s garage and surf, then you’re on your own—good luck getting any discovery assistance from the “human curated recommendations.” Yet another example of Tim Cook releasing a weak product to us.

I agree that Apple Music has been an abysmal failure. Spotify’s “Discover Weekly” and “Release Radar” playlists are light years beyond what Apple’s curating and algorithms are capable of. I’m consistently discovering new music in their curated playlists and it’s stuff I actually like and that is relevant. In Apple Music, it’s always the same 10-12 artists that I’ve already heard of. It’s really bad.
[doublepost=1563668389][/doublepost]

yeah, i like KRS’s take on it..

(fwiw, the context of that video is something like— a dad came up to KRS and said his son is a hip-hop artist.. from what i can gather, the kid was acting out of hand and basically just copying poor behaviors etc.. so the father asked KRS for some advice which we hear in the video..

KRS-ONE basically says... look kid, you aren’t hip hop.. you’re just a fake rapper trying to copy others and thinking bling equates to success.. you want to be hip-hop? then get a message together and put it out there.. emcee to the people.. have something a little more profound to say.. be hip hop first.. that’s how you’ll get the respect (both self respect and from others) ..and use rap as your delivery and a means to get your dollars..

i mean, that’s my interpretation of what he’s saying in the video at least.

——

but idk.. i’m in my mid 40s now.. the first time i heard of any of these two phrases were in the same song

Rapper’s Delight : “i said a hip.. hop.. the hippie.. the hippie to the hip hip hop you don’t stop..”

been on it ever since..

the descriptions have always been interchangeable with me.. i get it that words are fluid and can change due to what’s going on in the world and i think that has happened/is happening to some extent here..

but i think this guy Bawstan got ahold of some corporate pigeonhole attempt at making a distinction in order to sell whatever it was they were trying to sell.. and he’s been rolling with this distinction ever since.. but if he’d just listen to the artists themselves either in interviews or more importantly, in the music.. i think he’d find he has it wrong.

whatever though.. i think i’m ready to bow out of this topic.. everyone ganging up on Bawstan is putting him in a super defensive position and or seeming like he’s being shamed into changing his mind.. but really, if he wants to continue believing Rap and Hip Hop are completely different genres then so be it.

Don’t be nonsensical. Rap and Hip Hop ARE different. There are literally separate charts all over the world for the artists to appear on individually. There are separate categories on all streaming music services...except Apple.

 

[flat five]

Don’t be nonsensical. Rap and Hip Hop ARE different. There are literally separate charts all over the world for the artists to appear on individually. There are separate categories on all streaming music services...except Apple.

(BILLBOARD, the leading authority in music, has separate charts and chart history for Hip Hop and for Rap.)

omfg

you're doing this to yourself..



https://www.billboard.com/charts/r-b-hip-hop-songs
https://www.billboard.com/charts/rap-song

 

[2010mini]

A white employee with no knowledge or education on black music genres assumed hip hop and rap were interchangeable. It’s prejudiced and ignorant, get over it.

And you need to educate yourselves on what hip hop is.

 

[Coconut Bean]

Lol, it's pretty weird, as the playlist is definitely hip hop and NOT rap.

Three pages in and the first meaningful comment! Either many don't have Apple Music here or listen to Rap Life... (Or hip-hop)

 

[flat five]

When I was a little mixed race Asian girl growing up .....

your story works well as an analogy... as long as you're willing to make a few changes to it.. such as:

I used to point that out to these kids and try to explain how incredibly stupid it was to conflate The Bronx heritage with The Bronx or The Bronx. ​

you see? your story no longer makes sense.. Bronx and Bronx and Bronx are all the same thing just like rap and hip-hop are.. both terms originated in the same place by the same people and were used to describe the same music..

with that in mind, do you now see how your experiences with racism and what's going on in this thread don't actually share any common grounds?

My friend, you’re staring down the blank look of incomprehension.

yep.. exactly.. well said.

 

[Justanotherfanboy]

yeah, i like KRS’s take on it..

whatever though.. i think i’m ready to bow out of this topic.. everyone ganging up on Bawstan is putting him in a super defensive position and or seeming like he’s being shamed into changing his mind.. but really, if he wants to continue believing Rap and Hip Hop are completely different genres then so be it.

I am in COMPLETE agreement with you!
My only problem with @Bawstun is NOT his opinion on hip hop being separate from rap.
It’s making blanket statements about entire races!

When I moved from super liberal Willamette Valley, Oregon to rural horse country, Florida (both places, in which it would be considered inappropriate to refer to groups as “ignorant blacks” or “ignorant whites”), the only time I encountered that kind of hate speech was at a KOA campground in deep Kentucky... a worker casually said: “we got the whites over here, and the blacks over there”. My 13 year old son was flabbergasted! His jaw dropped! He said: “daddy, daddy.... is he allowed to say that??”.
Luckily, he had never been exposed to that level of racism.

Segregation of rap & hip hop in one’s mind may seem silly to me... but it’s absolutely harmless & fine. It needs no “intervention”.
However, the open racism and statements of that type should ABSOLUTELY be called out & not tolerated here, in my opinion!

 

[5105973]

your story works well as an analogy... as long as you're willing to make a few changes to it.. such as:

I used to point that out to these kids and try to explain how incredibly stupid it was to conflate The Bronx heritage with The Bronx or The Bronx. ​

you see? your story no longer makes sense.. Bronx and Bronx and Bronx are all the same thing just like rap and hip-hop are.. both terms originated in the same place by the same people and were used to describe the same music..

with that in mind, do you now see how your experiences with racism and what's going on in this thread don't actually share any common grounds?





yep.. exactly.. well said.

Even as I was writing it I could see how the argument could be made just as you made it. In fact I could understand and agree with the logic of all the arguments people made against Bawstun’s statements.

But there’s a missing component to the entire discussion that I unfortunately do not know how to articulate. Whatever that component is, it made Bawstun’s posts reach me on a level that goes beyond any way I have of expressing it all coherently.

I think @Bawstun and I understand each other because of my experiences with racism and misidentification that’s race-related. But it’s hard to explain, which is what I said.

I understand the reasoning and the logic behind everything everyone is arguing against Bawstun. But I just “get” something on a much deeper level with what Bawstun is saying. I know why his position is rubbing people the wrong way. I get that.

Argh...sorry there’s just not enough coffee in the world to help me explain this. He and I are both struggling to express a point that goes a lot deeper than what we’ve said and how we’ve said it.

I see I’m just restating the same basic idea over and over so I have to just leave this here as it is. I do wish I were much better writer.

 

[Justanotherfanboy]

Even as I was writing it I could see how the argument could be made just as you made it. In fact I could understand and agree with the logic of all the arguments people made against Bawstun’s statements.

But there’s a missing component to the entire discussion that I unfortunately do not know how to articulate. Whatever that component is, it made Bawstun’s posts reach me on a level that goes beyond any way I have of expressing it all coherently.

I think @Bawstun and I understand each other because of my experiences with racism and misidentification that’s race-related. But it’s hard to explain, which is what I said.

I understand the reasoning and the logic behind everything everyone is arguing against Bawstun. But I just “get” something on a much deeper level with what Bawstun is saying. I know why his position is rubbing people the wrong way. I get that.

Argh...sorry there’s just not enough coffee in the world to help me explain this. He and I are both struggling to express a point that goes a lot deeper than what we’ve said and how we’ve said it.

I see I’m just restating the same basic idea over and over so I have to just leave this here as it is. I do wish I were much better writer.

I don’t think you get him AT ALL.
He is a race segregationist that wants some things to be “white only” & some things to be “black only”.
You sound like the opposite of that!!!
Your story spoke to me. It was sweet and gentle... basically, the opposite of everything he has espoused in this conversation.
You seem like a truly kind person that I wouldn’t mind being around... I wouldn’t want to know anyone that would even want to know that other guy.
Racism is a poison. (in my opinion)
Lol, either you’re confused or I am!
If I got you wrong & actually growing up as an Asian girl you longed for people to tell you what things “the Asians” could do, that were for you... and what things were only for “the whites”, & were excluded, then hey.... I guess I got it wrong & you 2 are playing for the same team!!!
But, I think you’re trying to read into it an underlying kinship that doesn’t exist.
He has identified as a white male that apparently has experience living around other cultures.... but in all that time never realized using phrases like “the Mexicans” or “the Arabs” is verboten??
What kind of an echo chamber would you have to live in to not realize that:
NOBODY BUT RACISTS REFER TO ENTIRE SWATHS OF PEOPLE BY THEIR RACE!
Most particularly it’s racist when coupled with an insult: like if you refer to all Caucasians as “greedy whites”, or all African Americans as “ghetto blacks”; that’s obviously not ok, yeah??
He lost any iota of respect from me when that happened.
What I don’t understand is: in your story you wanted to be called a homogeneous term.... “American”, not segmented off as “Chinese”, “Vietnamese”, or whatever. But he is calling for the OPPOSITE. He has said rap (as a term) is inclusive of all, thus he thinks it’s inappropriate. Hip hop (only his opinion) is black ONLY, so there should be a purely racial distinction.
That’s what YOU believe as well??!!
Country is only for “whites”? Rock is only for “whites”? Rap is for all. Hip hop is only for “blacks”?
There’s no way! Lol. I don’t even know you & I think highly enough of you that I can’t imagine you share this frankly disturbing opinion with this man!!!

 

[flat five]

But there’s a missing component to the entire discussion that I unfortunately do not know how to articulate. Whatever that component is, it made Bawstun’s posts reach me on a level that goes beyond any way I have of expressing it all coherently.

heh, the missing component is this..

What is the difference between Rap and Hip-Hop?

we've heard this over and over again in this thread.. and as long as "Rap and Hip Hop are NOT the same genre, not even close" is being accepted as fact..

..then Bawstan's commentary on racism and/or 'ignorant white people' rings true..

I'm begging someone to please make the distinction.. if Rap and Hip Hop are not the same and not even close to the same then surely Bawstan (or you?) can explain the difference..

because I promise you this-- the minute one of you all saying how these two terms are used to describe different musics then you're going to fall flat on your face in the attempt..

why? because they are the same thing..

so please, make the attempt to show how these are different musics.. Bawstan's argument so far has been that Billboard has separate charts for Rap and Hip Hop.. I then pointed out that those two charts literally consist of the same artists/songs.. 8 songs are in the top tens of BOTH charts..

where is Bawstan's response on this? idk but he's obviously lurking the thread as he just faved your post..

-----

Rap and Hip Hop can be used interchangeably.. that has been my argument this whole time.. once this is recognized by Bawstan and others (and it would easily be recognized if a tiny amount of research or education was attempted)..

then the subsequent arguments (the racism stuff) just falls apart.. (though honestly, it does start to show some form of bigotry

it could be argued that the racism accusations are based on ignorance.. Bawstan is throwing around 'ignorant white people' in this thread but the reality is, he's the ignorant one because he keeps insisting Rap and Hip Hop are not even close to the same thing.. when in fact they are.

-----

so for real:

What is the difference between Rap and Hip-Hop?


answer that and the rest of this unnecessary racial stuff goes away automatically..

(well, it will make a chance for someone to re-examine their 'righteous stance'.. and maybe see that it's in fact them being bigoted as opposed to fighting against that type of stuff)

 

[Justanotherfanboy]

heh, the missing component is this..

What is the difference between Rap and Hip-Hop?

we've heard this over and over again in this thread.. and as long as "Rap and Hip Hop are NOT the same genre, not even close" is being accepted as fact..

..then Bawstan's commentary on racism and/or 'ignorant white people' rings true..

I'm begging someone to please make the distinction.. if Rap and Hip Hop are not the same and not even close to the same then surely Bawstan (or you?) can explain the difference..

because I promise you this-- the minute one of you all saying how these two terms are used to describe different musics then you're going to fall flat on your face in the attempt..

why? because they are the same thing..

so please, make the attempt to show how these are different musics.. Bawstan's argument so far has been that Billboard has separate charts for Rap and Hip Hop.. I then pointed out that those two charts literally consist of the same artists/songs.. 8 songs are in the top tens of BOTH charts..

where is Bawstan's response on this? idk but he's obviously lurking the thread as he just faved your post..

-----

Rap and Hip Hop can be used interchangeably.. that has been my argument this whole time.. once this is recognized by Bawstan and others (and it would easily be recognized if a tiny amount of research or education was attempted)..

then the subsequent arguments (the racism stuff) just falls apart.. (though honestly, it does start to show some form of bigotry

it could be argued that the racism accusations are based on ignorance.. Bawstan is throwing around 'ignorant white people' in this thread but the reality is, he's the ignorant one because he keeps insisting Rap and Hip Hop are not even close to the same thing.. when in fact they are.

-----

so for real:

What is the difference between Rap and Hip-Hop?


answer that and the rest of this unnecessary racial stuff goes away automatically..

(well, it will make a chance for someone to re-examine their 'righteous stance'.. and maybe see that it's in fact them being bigoted as opposed to fighting against that type of stuff)

You sir.... are a bastion of reason! =)

I've always thought of hip hop as a culture & rap as music.
As in: “triple5soul & phat farm are hip hop clothing companies”. I wouldn’t refer to them as rap clothing companies, because that sounds ludicrous to me.
There can be hip hop dance styles (break), hip hop music (rap), etc. but it sounds clunky if you try to reverse it!
So, my 2 cents... Apple now named its Music channel after the music, not the overall scene.

 

[Jimmy James]

Rap Lyfe.

 

[ipponrg]

What is the difference between Rap and Hip-Hop?

When I think of hip hop music vs rap music, I think of old school raw beats, music, and rhyme. Rap music on the other hand always felt like main streamed hip hop music.

I know culturally in society today, many think of hip hop is a culture, and rap as the delivery of the music.

 

[Justanotherfanboy]

You know.... I was thinking more about any possible distinction between rap & hip hop and Apple’s decision is making more and more sense to me!

For example: I would consider turntablism to be decidedly hip hop... like if someone told me they had a mic & turntable tattoo, own a bunch of 808s, spin at Miami clubs 3 nights a week & promote shows in their spare time, I’d think: “wow, that dude is steeped in the hip hop lifestyle!”.
Then if I asked him... “what do you spin?” & got the response “mostly electronica mashups of rap & pop radio hits w/ some added beats, scratches, and personal flavor” I cannot imagine thinking “oh, you’re not hip hop then... you’re not a rapper”.
So, to me... rap is encompassed in the hip hop scene, but not necessarily vice versa.
The term hip hop is a bit too all encompassing to truly give an accurate idea of a specific genre of music, since it can also refer to your clothes, job, hobbies, etc.
There is no lack of clarity if you state: “I perform rap music... I’m a rapper”.
In my opinion, Apple just got a bit more accurate/specific in their title.

 

[duervo]

Renaming an entire category of music to another (when both focus on music primarily recorded by black musicians) is what is racist. And the fact you defend it and dismiss it is very revealing.

Let me ask it another way, if it isn’t at the very least prejudiced, then why is Apple the only streaming service combining Hip Hop & Rap stations?

Every other major music streaming service (correctly) differentiates between Hip Hop and Rap genres. But not Apple.

Does that make sense to you, to be the only outlier? Apple should just quietly admit to their white-washing and correct the mistake. No real harm has been done.

FYI, “Rap Life” refers to the name of a playlist, not a genre. As a playlist, the name is more indicative of its content now than it was when it was named, “Hip Hop.”

Apple isn’t renaming a genre here. They are not saying that the Hip Hop genre is now Rap Life ... smh ... So, i’d recommend that you take a step back and calm down.

This is the type of thing that happens when your focus is on the trees, and not the forest.

 

[5105973]

I don’t think you get him AT ALL.
He is a race segregationist that wants some things to be “white only” & some things to be “black only”.
You sound like the opposite of that!!!
Your story spoke to me. It was sweet and gentle... basically, the opposite of everything he has espoused in this conversation.
You seem like a truly kind person that I wouldn’t mind being around... I wouldn’t want to know anyone that would even want to know that other guy.
Racism is a poison. (in my opinion)
Lol, either you’re confused or I am!
If I got you wrong & actually growing up as an Asian girl you longed for people to tell you what things “the Asians” could do, that were for you... and what things were only for “the whites”, & were excluded, then hey.... I guess I got it wrong & you 2 are playing for the same team!!!
But, I think you’re trying to read into it an underlying kinship that doesn’t exist.
He has identified as a white male that apparently has experience living around other cultures.... but in all that time never realized using phrases like “the Mexicans” or “the Arabs” is verboten??
What kind of an echo chamber would you have to live in to not realize that:
NOBODY BUT RACISTS REFER TO ENTIRE SWATHS OF PEOPLE BY THEIR RACE!
Most particularly it’s racist when coupled with an insult: like if you refer to all Caucasians as “greedy whites”, or all African Americans as “ghetto blacks”; that’s obviously not ok, yeah??
He lost any iota of respect from me when that happened.
What I don’t understand is: in your story you wanted to be called a homogeneous term.... “American”, not segmented off as “Chinese”, “Vietnamese”, or whatever. But he is calling for the OPPOSITE. He has said rap (as a term) is inclusive of all, thus he thinks it’s inappropriate. Hip hop (only his opinion) is black ONLY, so there should be a purely racial distinction.
That’s what YOU believe as well??!!
Country is only for “whites”? Rock is only for “whites”? Rap is for all. Hip hop is only for “blacks”?
There’s no way! Lol. I don’t even know you & I think highly enough of you that I can’t imagine you share this frankly disturbing opinion with this man!!!

Well I probably am confused along the way. Discussion of racial issues gets more complicated the longer I live and the more society changes. It doesn’t help I try to compose these posts and am interrupted by kids constantly. Summer vacation!

To clarify, it’s not so much that I wanted to be called a homogenous term. I wanted to be called and even insulted with the relevant and accurate terminology. Lol.

I was frustrated because the other kids argued at the time that I could not possibly be American (my nationality—they specifically asked my nationality when really they wanted to know my ethnicity) because I was Asian looking. But a white or a black person was automatically assumed to be American. When I would turn the tables on them and ask them about their heritage with the accurate terms, they could only revert to the basic answer “I am an American”.

I would try to point out that I also was and they would stubbornly repeat that it was not possible and then they’d pull on their eyelids and try to indicate a slant. Ironically none of my mother’s side of the family has that eye shape. My mom’s family actually looks Hispanic. I actually have the exact same shape of eyes from my German grandmother. But I digress.

It was a long and wearing childhood. Despite being half white myself, I admit I didn’t always have a high opinion of white people in the aggregate, because of what I experienced. Yes, that’s a form of racism. It would take me a bit more growth and maturity to move past that. And it would be another couple of years until I got to visit my mom’s side of the family and learn how I didn’t fit in there, either. (Star Trek’s Mr. Spock remains the fictional character I relate to the most).

As I grew up in a region that became increasingly diverse and went out and had more experiences, I came to learn that racism isn’t a sin peculiar to any one race. It’s a symptom of fear, misunderstanding, lack of communication and is found in everyone. Racists aren’t evil. We/They’re laboring under the aforementioned hindrances. The evil is in willfully holding onto all those bad things and not trying to grow. We can overcome it.

Just suffice it to say I was attempting to reach out to a fellow forum member and urge him to temper his frustration with the discussion and not let it get in the way of communication. Yeah, it was getting ugly.

Also I don’t have time to get into it now because I’ve got two little girls who want to go somewhere, but assuming I understand correctly one of Bawstun’s point of objection, he wanted a black artist closer to the actual music to be the arbiter of the classification system rather than a bean counting suit like maybe Eddy Cue. With Apple it’s always hard to tell who really decides what. We still don’t know exactly how much iPhone Fug is due to Jony and how much is due to his minions, for example. There’s enough about this decision to make people speculate who really was behind it. They can put any face on it they want. Who really did it?

I don’t think it’s unreasonable that Bawstun wanted people of the race who originated the genre to do the heavy lifting on it at Apple and keep it authentic and coherent for new listeners. Others might find that idea offensive. I can understand their point. It should be a discussion after all, not a war.

As I said, I totally understand the objections people had to how Bawstun went about it here. And there are other arguments Bawstun made that are not accurate, per the information in the article.

 

[tha_man]

Hip Hop is a culture, which includes rap, DJing, graffitti and breakdance. Rap is a genre of music and a style of delivery of lyrics.

You could use term hip hop when talking about rap, but not necessary vice-versa, because hip hop can also mean other music, e.g. instrumental hip hop (think DJ Shadow, Gramatik...), beatboxing, old school breaks...

 

[H3LL5P4WN]

^ LOL!

Truth be told, the metal I still listen to does that for me. If it wasn’t for a handful of extreme metal bands, I’d be a wreck.

I am long out of the rap and hip hop loop, so IDC.

Wake me up when Apple promotes Funk life. Funk is fun.

lol, I was more going for the angle that pretty much all of the hardcore I listen to promotes positivity but I figured digging down a subgenre or two would ruin the joke. I mean yeah there's a lot of stuff I listen to that is decidedly negative, but if I want a pick me up I've got choices that will still scare the neighbors.

 

[siddavis]

Except that is your own prejudice speaking. I said MUSIC primarily recorded by black MUSICIANS. And it’s true, as over 90% of all hip hop and rap genres are recorded by people of color. You should be “wincing” at the white Apple executive who thought Hip Hop and Rap are genres of music that are interchangeable and one in the same.

You have any proof that it was a white Apple employee that made the change?

Or do you make that assumption based on YOUR prejudice (and therefore by your own definition racism)?

 

[macduke]

Some people really believe what you're getting at, by the way.

Quite unfortunate.

 

[kazmac]

lol, I was more going for the angle that pretty much all of the hardcore I listen to promotes positivity but I figured digging down a subgenre or two would ruin the joke. I mean yeah there's a lot of stuff I listen to that is decidedly negative, but if I want a pick me up I've got choices that will still scare the neighbors.

LOL!

I hear you.

Of course, I had to deflate your joke with my confession.

My neighbors have sadly gone tone deaf to the death metal I still spin.

 

[iRutherford]

Quite unfortunate.

You won't believe how many times I heard or have seen the "It was made for us!" or the "If you're not [insert identity here], you don't get a say."

 

[Gasu E.]

The genres are different and whatever white dude at Apple thought of this change is at the very least, ignorant.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hip_hop_music

I guess either Wikipedia is racist, or you are.

 

[flat five]

So “Thug Life” would have been too obvious?

joke's aside, that term died with Tupac.. or, that term is pretty much reserved for Tupac.

..not that Apple would actually use that name but just saying, Thug Life was Tupac and his crew.. 3/4 are deceased.. one of natural causes..


-----

unless, of course, you're talking about ThiS thug life:

--------------

@whoever... re: hip hop... check out this playlist:

https://music.apple.com/us/playlist/q-tips-playlist/pl.8ee4051d14e84664bebe4ccb68d81913

.
.
(he also does a weekly show.. over a hundred so far)

 

[thefourthpope]

So as applied here, I think you are assuming the third case: that the people who did the renaming both don't know the difference and have made the value judgment that it's not important because "all black music is the same" (and also that they are white, which is also unfounded). I simply don't know how you can possibly assume the latter part of the statement. There's absolutely no evidence that's what happened here.

Also because this rebrand is not about all black music (by which I would mean music made by black artists OR music stemming from black culture like jazz, blues, soul . . .)

—-

This ad for amazon music is just too perfect for this thread...