not really. most requires at least a majority. you are claiming 50%+ of developers are making over a million. still waiting for that source.
Apple Must Let Dating Apps Offer Alternative Payment Methods in App Store, Dutch Regulator Says
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And I am suggesting every time someone makes this dumb statement, they should be banned from the internet.
Have you ever been unhappy with your government? Why did you not leave the country? Ever heard of "pros and cons"? It looks like you don't know it, but it is actually possible that there can be both negative AND positive aspects at the same time. Meaning that one cannot or doesn't want to jump ship just because of a few concerns. That doesn't render these concerns any less relevant and also doesn't mean one has to be silent or entirely positive about the situation.
Ok - as I suspected, the discrepancy lies in semantics.
I just compared the definitions in the UK, the US and in my home country... in the latter, the government equals the executive.
What the UK/US refer to as "government" is referred to as "The State".
My apologies.
Seem we mean the same thing, I got the wording wrong, lost in translation
I7guy
macrumors Westmere
A lot is relative to the situation. Ten people winning the lottery is "a lot" (at least in my opinion), for example.
I7guy
macrumors Westmere
Okay, I'll point you to the suggestion box.
Yes.
There are people who have. I exercise my unhappiness in the voting booth. However. When I was displeased with my car, I bought a car from a different manufacturer. When I was displeased with my dishwasher I bought a dishwasher from a different manufacturer. When I was displeased with my cable provider I ...oh wait, that's a legitimate monopoly supported by the government.
My guess is most of the people weighing in on this have no stake in the game and just want Apple to be regulated to death. Apple has been doing business in the Netherlands since 2012 and 9/10 years later the government determines dating apps should use their own payment method? Sheesh. But why would the average Joe, who isn't a dev on a dating app and whose country of residence is not the Netherlands care?
Some make it sound like life and death.
It's a discussion, sometimes an irrational discussion full of cognitive dissonance, but a discussion never the less.
icanhazmac
Cancelled
you think a lot of devs are making millions??
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I think devs are doing just fine. As previously stated "a lot" is a very relative term... do I think "a lot" of developers as compared to the total number of developers make millions, no, but lets then define developer. I can write some code and probably could make an app to do something stupid, like copy a word find game, then I can be 1 of the 100,000 (exaggerated I know) word find games.
My point is that just because one can create an "app" doesn't automatically mean they should make millions. Now, do I think "a lot" of developers make millions, yes I do.
Secondary point, Apple's 30% is not the cause of dev failure, devs cause dev failure. Some copy the hard work of others and dilute the market (ex: my word find app example above), others simply do not have a quality product or business model. Most devs are under the same rules, if you need more $$ charge more simple fix! Most people are so confused my the micro-transaction model that they don't realize until it is too late that they spent the mortgage payment on some IAP.
No one is entitled to make millions. Dev a good app/product and the millions will come, make copies or crap and you get nothing, you lose, good day sir!
Because the regular Joe, e.g. me, wants to have more choice, and every small bit forcing Apple to open up some more is a step in the right direction. Whether they are directly concerned or not this time is irrelevant. Eventually the monopoly will implode and this will be a big win for Joe the user as well as Joe the developer. I would say it is even good for Joe the shareholder, as this forces Apple to innovate and get even better and bigger instead of just passively milking their dev and customer bases.
I7guy
macrumors Westmere
That's the power of competition and why people on this board suggest alternatives. I'm all for choice, I'm against micro-regulation, such as this. And while the final matter is out of my hands, I don't have to be for something that appears to be arbitrary. And if one wants more choice, Android has all the choice in the word. Let Apple manage it's business, legally and let those who want to cast a vote, vote with their dollars. I would say this is good and Apple might find ways to make up for the revenue. Apple is innovating by the way. And they are entitled to milk their customers and devs. The free market rules and says your opinion is flat out wrong.
No, one major choice is missing: A pretty good operating system. That's the whole point, otherwise people would have abandoned iOS a long time ago. For some this doesn't matter (because they have no style, no taste, no sense for quality), and they are happy with their decision to switch. For others this is still more important than the issues they have with Apple, so they stay.
No it doesn't. That's why there are antitrust laws, and why regulation is needed against monopolistic behavior such as Apple's. I am happy that the inefficient "free market" that is not free at all due to Apple will eventually be fixed. This decision by the Dutch will help with that.
And by the way, do you care about copyright laws, patents etc.? In a completely free market such things don't exist. Somehow I doubt that you agree that these are unnecessary because as soon as the free market doesn't go your or Apple's way you run home to mama and cry for regulation.
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I think devs are doing just fine. As previously stated "a lot" is a very relative term... do I think "a lot" of developers as compared to the total number of developers make millions, no, but lets then define developer. I can write some code and probably could make an app to do something stupid, like copy a word find game, then I can be 1 of the 100,000 (exaggerated I know) word find games.
My point is that just because one can create an "app" doesn't automatically mean they should make millions. Now, do I think "a lot" of developers make millions, yes I do.
Secondary point, Apple's 30% is not the cause of dev failure, devs cause dev failure. Some copy the hard work of others and dilute the market (ex: my word find app example above), others simply do not have a quality product or business model. Most devs are under the same rules, if you need more $$ charge more simple fix! Most people are so confused my the micro-transaction model that they don't realize until it is too late that they spent the mortgage payment on some IAP.
No one is entitled to make millions. Dev a good app/product and the millions will come, make copies or crap and you get nothing, you lose, good day sir!
thank you for your educated response with sources. can't say a few thousand out of millions even comes close to a lot but there it is.
I7guy
macrumors Westmere
Yes, the free market has ruled and people have voted with their dollars. In fact apples business model was left intact by the recent US rulings, but this entire thing won't be settled in the US for a few years. We should laws and regulations nobody is denying that. But so far Apple has not shown to be operating under a monopoly and this does nothing to further that notion.
Sorry to say there is some cognitive dissonance at play here.
Honestly, if I were Apple I would just pull out of the Dutch market. It would be fascinating to see what would happen. The Netherlands isn't big enough all by itself to hurt Apple by its absence. It's popular to beat up on big tech companies these days. I'll bet Apple would only have to do this a few times before regulators and the courts got the message.
turbineseaplane
Contributor
It would be the beginning of big problems for Apple, as it won't stop with one country or market.
They know that.
All of you proclaiming "Apple should pull out"
Has it ever dawned on you why they don't?
Apple know - better than all of us - what very thin ice they are skating on with all the potential regulations swirling, worldwide.
icanhazmac
Cancelled
Again "a lot" being relative. There are millions of doctors in the world, how many of them make millions?
I might describe it this way, I think that thousands is "a lot" in the terms of how many apps can achieve that level of success, lets face it, how many apps can be that popular? Also, most apps need to be given away free and then rely on ad revenue or IAP, here is where a quality product enters the fray, if your app is good the revenue will come. If you are one of the tens of thousands of indie devs that are putting out word find games that are near carbon copies of others then you shouldn't have millions in revenue, you just subsist off the ad $$, either way the 30% Apple cut means very little.
In the rare case of a true indie that puts out an incredible, viral app, I would argue they get their $$ and lots of them! I would also argue that without access to the Apple app store, all the dev tools Apple provides AND access to their customer base a true indie working out of his home office would probably not have achieved the level of success with their app that they achieved with the help of Apple (and Google, Microsoft, Sony, etc.). 30% is nothing and far lower than brick and mortar markups. It is not uncommon for retail stores to double their money on products, there are certainly lower margin items but those don't keep the doors open.
I'm not a dev and have little skin in this game but having worked for CPG manufacturers, distributors and retailers I can tell you that 30% is more than fair.
chucker23n1
macrumors G3
Fortunately, most countries have ruled about a hundred years ago that a completely free market is a stupid idea.
chucker23n1
macrumors G3
Why would it be better for Apple to give up on all Dutch revenues than to simply relinquish some (by passing someone to alternative payment providers)?
I7guy
macrumors Westmere
You and I are free to spend our $$$ the way we want.
pcmxa
macrumors regular
Ummm retail markup is usually way more than 30%. In my market (fine art) it is 100%. It is more in other markets. And less in a few. https://www.wisebread.com/cheat-sheet-retail-markup-on-common-items
Michael Scrip
macrumors G3
I remember when the App Store first opened... developers were thrilled about the 30% flat fee on every purchase.
But 15 years later... people can't believe it was even allowed. Like how dare Apple charge a fee. It's cruel and inhumane.
Look... just frickin' fix it. I'm sick of hearing about it. With every new investigation... here come the articles. The EU, South Korea, and now the Netherlands... sheesh.
Make it stop!
But 15 years later... people can't believe it was even allowed. Like how dare Apple charge a fee. It's cruel and inhumane.
Look... just frickin' fix it. I'm sick of hearing about it. With every new investigation... here come the articles. The EU, South Korea, and now the Netherlands... sheesh.
Make it stop!
Sophisticatednut
macrumors 68030
They aren't taking their profits. it's called a fine for breaking the local laws
you are missing that US laws have zero relevance in the Netherlands or EU. if Eu say apple need to provide 3 years of warranty, then they need to do that. If the EU says apple needs to provide schematics for people to repair, then they need to do that. or get a fine/ exit the market. if Eu say their ToS aren't legal, then they aren't etc etc.
Indeed, any countries also compete with each other.
That's the beauty of democracy. We have voted to protect consumer interests over business interests
Android isn't a company, Apple is. this isn't socialism, it's a regulated market we voted for.
If it has the exact same results? It will be slapped hard as anticompetitive for stopping developers from using competing payment services to force them to use apple's 30% cut.
I7guy
macrumors Westmere
That's just spin.
True, the may acquiesce, but then make up the revenue in other ways, for example charge 100 euros per download. I'm all for following local laws, but this amounts to no less than extortion.
Extorting companies will ensure the EU in the future gets what it deserves. Business will not want to invest in a venture that will appropriate future earnings on a whim.
This amounts to socialism.
I don't think so. On one hand government can't come in an force companies to give up revenues and then to not expect companies to want to invest. The EU will be a second class technological citizen. What you are supporting is high taxes and socialistic practices.
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chucker23n1
macrumors G3
Then virtually any country is “socialist”. Extremely few major economies don’t have some level of antitrust regulation.
I7guy
macrumors Westmere
Anti-trust is fine, reducing revenue via new regulations not so much.
Thats how China and Russia do things.