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Say what? Jony hasn’t been gone a month yet, this wasn’t some decision they made after his announced leaving. This was already in the works. You don’t make decisions and design laptop lines like this in a matter of days or even a couple of weeks. This is something that was thought out and decided on long before Jony’s leaving.

Technically, Jony Ive isn't even gone yet.
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Touch Bar is the best courage they made with the MacBook Pro line, the F keys are so outdated to today's standards.

In who's world, the coffee-shop hipster set?
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Exactly. Apple has to go with what Intel gives them. With the new MacBook Air out and Intel not providing them the necessary CPUs for the MacBook they simply got rid of it. It didn’t make sense to sell a higher priced machine with weaker performance and I/O. Also if they’re really going back to a scissor mechanism design, it was going to be impossible to put a thicker keyboard in that chassis.

The Touch Bar has been out for over 2.5 years and Apple already got enough of a return from selling higher-end 13” and 15” SKUs. They probably would have done this last year but Intel didn’t have a suitable CPU for the $1299 tier.

Keep in mind that Intel was forced by AMD to add more cores after years of offering insignificant gains. The ULV dual-core in the 2018 MBA wasn’t suitable for the base MBP. These need Iris iGPUs but with a lower clock than the $1799 config.

The bottom line is that Apple finally has a straightforward lineup again and more value at the lower end in time for back to school sales.

No, Apple could just engineer around what Intel or AMD have, just like every other OEM. Instead, Apple has to "think different," even if it isn't what customers actually want.
 
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Touch Bar is the best courage they made with the MacBook Pro line, the F keys are so outdated to today's standards.
I have to disagree, and while I may be in the minority, I use the function keys on a daily basis. I've long said the touchbar is a solution in search of a problem.

What is surprising, is that apple many Mac models since 2016 but only the MBP has TB and even with that, they've not improved or updated it. They're not helping themselves by leaving it there unchanged.
 
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Bad form, Apple for those who use Windows on their Mac, it's completely useless.

I don't think that's going to motivate them much.

The touch bar seems to be a generational thing... younger people seem to love to touch bar, while the olds seem to dislike it.
 
No one “needs” one, and only old people know there ever was a physical ESC key.

1. You sound like a child. Immaturity might be fashionable right now, but it's never cute or witty.

2. Developers "need" a physical ESC that they can use by touch without having to look at the keyboard more than they "need" a Touch Bar with pretty blinking lights.
 
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The 512GB model went from £1949 to £1999?!? What gives?
Did you see where the pound has been going recently? Don't complain to Apple, complain to Bozo. And buy that MacBook while a pound is still worth more than a dollar.
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1. You sound like a child. Immaturity might be fashionable right now, but it's never cute or witty.

2. Developers "need" a physical ESC that they can use by touch without having to look at the keyboard more than they "need" a Touch Bar with pretty blinking lights.

Command-Period usually does the job.
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Fixed. According to a poll, only about ¼ of over 30,000 respondents were definitively opposed to the Touch Bar, and more people liked it than hated it. Sry to break it to you, but appear to be the vocal minority.
There's always more complainers than people speaking out who like something. The "likers" often think something is just the way it is supposed to be, and see no reason to mention it.
 
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Fixed. According to a poll, only about ¼ of over 30,000 respondents were definitively opposed to the Touch Bar, and more people liked it than hated it. Sry to break it to you, but appear to be the vocal minority.


But probably not done complaining about them, though. What fun would that be?

Actually, that very poll you refer to shows only 30% actually support the touch bar as is.
 
Actually, that very poll you refer to shows only 30% actually support the touch bar as is.
The likers outnumber the haters, and, to my point, the haters aren’t just a minority but the smallest minority. More people responded “Yes without doubt” that they’d prefer TB over Fn keys (preference is the question) than “no, not at all.”
 
1. You sound like a child. Immaturity might be fashionable right now, but it's never cute or witty.

2. Developers "need" a physical ESC that they can use by touch without having to look at the keyboard more than they "need" a Touch Bar with pretty blinking lights.

OLD developers “need” a physical key. YOUNG developers learned without one.

Sorry you find that immature or whatever, but it’s a fact.
 
OLD developers “need” a physical key. YOUNG developers learned without one.

Sorry you find that immature or whatever, but it’s a fact.

You mean: "young developers" were all trained in the last three years, and all have macbook pros with touch bar ?
By the way, where does this "fact" come from ? (poll, scientific study, or other ?)
 
Thats what I have as well, it has been great so far but now I'm disappointed the standard ones come with it...oh well.

I went from the 2017 nTB model to the 2018 top of the line 13" model. The difference is phenomenal with the twin fans and the 4 ports alone, huge upgrade. Thing never struggled no matter what I threw at it.

I loved my nTB, but honestly, it didn't come close. It was truly a different beast in the same clothing.

The TB was okay, not as useful as I hoped but also not a big PITA like some people on here seem to say it is. It can be turned into Function keys permanently in settings.
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Yes, only Frappuccino from now on!

They'd still do phenomenally well, commercially.
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1. You sound like a child. Immaturity might be fashionable right now, but it's never cute or witty.

2. Developers "need" a physical ESC that they can use by touch without having to look at the keyboard more than they "need" a Touch Bar with pretty blinking lights.

The 'old' and 'young' thing, that's immature I suppose.

But, the point he's making is valid too. I had both models and for the first week the Esc key was just odd to use. But after that it honestly made no difference.

I really doubt it's the dealbreaker you guys are suggesting. I mean, for you perhaps it is. But I feel this group is exaggerating the loss of the plastic Esc. At the end of the day Apple knows how the decisions are impacting customer preference and they clearly feel it's not a big deal. It's not stopping sales. This weakens the side of the argument you're on.
 
I'd pay more for a MacBook Pro with traditional Function keys.

Unfortunately for you in this case, Apple isn't in the market of making a limited production run of products appealing to a small minority of users who dislike the TouchBar. It's in the business of making innovative products that break the mould and introduce new ideas to a large amount of people, and for the third year running that's been with the TouchBar.

Contrary to MR users and the poor state of the tech journalism industry, who are very vocal about personal preferences and blowing things out of proportion, they are acting on internal data that supports the popularity of the TouchBar - hence making it standard across all models when they could have removed it from all models. They do what upsets the least amount of people whilst still attempting to innovate.

Sure, you don't see it as an innovation. Well, product designers, market analysts inside Apple do. As do millions of users. But I suppose if it's just your opinions vs there's then... maybe you're right..
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No, Apple could just engineer around what Intel or AMD have, just like every other OEM. Instead, Apple has to "think different," even if it isn't what customers actually want.

Correction: even if it isn't what I want ... You're one user. Speak for yourself. You're part of a very vocal, all things considered minority of users who don't like the Touch Bar. That's fine. But don't force it down peoples throats.
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I have to disagree, and while I may be in the minority, I use the function keys on a daily basis. I've long said the touchbar is a solution in search of a problem.

What is surprising, is that apple many Mac models since 2016 but only the MBP has TB and even with that, they've not improved or updated it. They're not helping themselves by leaving it there unchanged.

It's that minority part that's the biggest factor here. It'd be different if say for example you had to use the F keys daily, and Apple didn't offer you a way to do it or any alternative, I'd not be surprised if there was a backlash like this. But there is a setting even on the Touch Bar for your use case, so what's wrong with that? You can still get your work done right? But more importantly, benefit from all of the other features of say a high end current MBP - 6 cores, immense speed and power, that beautiful display. And overlook the TB, and not having to buy into it overly. Just have those keys back the way you want them.

Ditto on the 'Apple not updating it' point, I wish they would. To make it more useful (for the people who do use it) and perhaps some changes that could change the mind of those who dislike it.

But Apple has to focus on the majority of its users. Whilst you or I can use hardcore and can't live without keyboard shortcuts (and they are of critical importance to me), I must admit, around me, most owners of 'MacBook Pro's' are far from Pros and power users in the slightest. They'd legitimately be served with a £300 PC laptop. But have the money and the resources for a 'nice' computer so went for a Mac. And because it's easy to use and plays well with their iPhones they get on well with it. Unlike their previous HP laptops, they're not ridden with viruses and slowed down to the point of uselessness (though they're Finder and desktop is a mess). These people who don't know the keyboard shortcuts, but dabble in say, iMovie or a bit of photo editing, this is where the TouchBar in its current form can help them be more productive in a way that's largely redundant to actual Pro users of a longstanding history.

I think it's like this:

Low level: point and click, using menu bar options
Mid level: use TouchBar shortcuts fluently
High level: use keyboard shortcuts heavily and minimal clicking


Hope this makes sense. But I do think it has its place, and commercially speaking, it's certainly not harming Apple or its sales as much as the MR forums users who hate it would have you believe
 
hay could be worse, look at it like this:
the touch bar is the only part of the keypad that works as advertised.
 
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