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Apple Officially Announces Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard
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Abuse of student discounts?
Educational discounts are a rare thing these days, and the few companies that offer them are doing a great service to those who work in academia. It's great that students are able to afford hardware and software that they otherwise couldn't afford, but it's also great that the people teaching these students can have access to cheaper equipment and software as well. Otherwise, faculty and staff couldn't keep up with the bleeding edge of technology and remain relevant. Besides, educational discounts are one of the few perks left to working in academia, and if it weren't for perks like these, even fewer people would be enticed to choose a teaching or school staff career.
It's hard for me to see how these discounts are being abused. Students, faculty, and staff together make up a very small proportion of the general buying population. I've noticed a lot of parents who are home schooling their children are using educational discounts to buy Apple hardware, but I don't see this as an abuse -- those parents need a break somewhere, since they are paying out of their own pockets to educate their kids in addition to paying taxes to subsidize everyone else's public education.
I've seen a lot of hateful responses to the above quoted comment, a lot of talk about people "abusing" the system and making prices less attractive for a lot of students. The truth is, student discounts have been steadily getting worse as profit margins on hardware get squeezed. Apple can no longer charge huge markups for what is essentially commodity hardware, even though Apple's hardware is very well engineered. This has been going on for years, and it's not going to stop anytime soon.
As for the price of Apple's software... I really don't think the erosion of the educational discount can be attributed to people "abusing" the system. I'd say this move is partly Apple's greed, and partly a reflection of the larger trend toward eliminating student discounts altogether. One can also argue for increased R&D costs. Most brick-and-mortar retailers have already eliminated these discounts, if they ever had them to begin with; with profit margins shrinking due to severe competition in the marketplace, there's less fat to trim. Hardware and software sold or donated below-cost is going to go straight to institutions, not to individuals.
First off, it's an educational discount, not a student discount. The discount isn't just for students -- it's for faculty and staff of educational institutions (like the one I work for). Students aren't the only folks strapped for cash. When you work in academia, even as a "lowly" staff member, you typically make less money than other people who do comparable jobs outside of academia. (For example, I'm a software engineer working for a university. I know for a fact I'd make a far higher salary if I were working in any other segment of the IT industry.)
Educational discounts are a rare thing these days, and the few companies that offer them are doing a great service to those who work in academia. It's great that students are able to afford hardware and software that they otherwise couldn't afford, but it's also great that the people teaching these students can have access to cheaper equipment and software as well. Otherwise, faculty and staff couldn't keep up with the bleeding edge of technology and remain relevant. Besides, educational discounts are one of the few perks left to working in academia, and if it weren't for perks like these, even fewer people would be enticed to choose a teaching or school staff career.
It's hard for me to see how these discounts are being abused. Students, faculty, and staff together make up a very small proportion of the general buying population. I've noticed a lot of parents who are home schooling their children are using educational discounts to buy Apple hardware, but I don't see this as an abuse -- those parents need a break somewhere, since they are paying out of their own pockets to educate their kids in addition to paying taxes to subsidize everyone else's public education.
I've seen a lot of hateful responses to the above quoted comment, a lot of talk about people "abusing" the system and making prices less attractive for a lot of students. The truth is, student discounts have been steadily getting worse as profit margins on hardware get squeezed. Apple can no longer charge huge markups for what is essentially commodity hardware, even though Apple's hardware is very well engineered. This has been going on for years, and it's not going to stop anytime soon.
As for the price of Apple's software... I really don't think the erosion of the educational discount can be attributed to people "abusing" the system. I'd say this move is partly Apple's greed, and partly a reflection of the larger trend toward eliminating student discounts altogether. One can also argue for increased R&D costs. Most brick-and-mortar retailers have already eliminated these discounts, if they ever had them to begin with; with profit margins shrinking due to severe competition in the marketplace, there's less fat to trim. Hardware and software sold or donated below-cost is going to go straight to institutions, not to individuals.
Okay, I ordered the family pack of Leopard it cost $211.44 (£104.10).
It says it delivers on the 26, does that mean it will be at my door on the 26?
Prof.
It says it delivers on the 26, does that mean it will be at my door on the 26?
Prof.
bah.... What a paltry and useless education discount... I'll bloody wait until the price drops.
Here in the UK its not a bad discount at all...but Americans still pay less...
Yeah, looks like the torrent sites are going to busy for awhile. Seriously, while it's not as much as Vista, 116 is a lot of money for a starving student.
Okay, I ordered the family pack of Leopard it cost $211.44 (£104.10).
It says it delivers on the 26, does that mean it will be at my door on the 26?
Prof.
Are you a Professor of English ?
I hope this is merely an unintentional omission on Apple's part, but it probably isn't. Either Apple didn't have the engineering resources to devote to writing optimized PPC code to do the backdrop stuff, or else they deliberately withheld the feature from PPC users to stimulate migration to Intel-based Macs. Looks as though even Apple isn't immune to the temptation to use artificially restricted software requirements to drive hardware sales. Since Apple makes most of their money off hardware, they have an incentive to do this.Photo Booth requires an iSight camera (built-in or external), USB video class (UVC) camera, or FireWire DV camcorder; and an Intel or PowerPC G5 processor. Backdrop effects require an Intel Core Duo or faster processor. Backdrop effects when using a DV camcorder require fixed focus, exposure, and white balance.
OK, my PowerBook G4 just misses two new features. I was expecting every machine with the Leopard could get the Photo Booth...and no Backdrop effect...
There might be a small chance of this feature being made available to PPC users in a future Leopard update... but I wouldn't bet money on it.
"It says it delivers on the 26, does that mean it will be at my door on the 26?"
That's kind of self-explanatory isn't it? I mean if they say "delivers on the 26th" I'd guess that means at your door unless you have it delivered to some other address
Hmm, hard one.
But, seriously, I want to pre-order too, but if it won't be here until the 29 or later, I'm not buying it online, I'm going to Salt Lake.
If apple reasoning for killing off the EDU prices is because of abuse then apple has no one to blame but themselves. All apple would of had to done is just tighten the reins on it and I don't know verify to make sure the person was a student. It is not that hard to do. Require them to send in a copy of there student ID and a copy of their transcripts. Also that makes it pretty easy to make sure it is not getting abused.
I bet the increase cost of doing that would be greatly off set by a reduction in the number of EDU orders.
Now copies of Leopard sold on college campus you know for a fact are students buying them. School are supposed to check to make sure you are a student. My college checks to make sure and then also make sure I am not buying more than I am allowed 2 in a given time frame.
But really bashing people complaining about it price increase because they own such and such. Some one said I was complain about it saying I am sitting on my 2k computer.... Um yeah I paid 1500 for my desktop 3.5 years ago when I built it and my Macbook is 2 years old. It is not like I have money to burn. School and basic living expensive are covered by my parents but anything else has to come out of my own pocket and those funds are dangerously low.
$80 is borderline if I can afford to pay for it 120 pushes it out of my current price range and yes it will be a while before i buy it. That extra 40 bucks to me, a date with my girlfriend, or just repairs and maintenance for my bike (Mtn biking has a tenancy to break equipment) With my Saving already in the danger zone I am going to hold off. I figure I just take that 80 I was debating about it with and go send it funding my biking.
I bet the increase cost of doing that would be greatly off set by a reduction in the number of EDU orders.
Now copies of Leopard sold on college campus you know for a fact are students buying them. School are supposed to check to make sure you are a student. My college checks to make sure and then also make sure I am not buying more than I am allowed 2 in a given time frame.
But really bashing people complaining about it price increase because they own such and such. Some one said I was complain about it saying I am sitting on my 2k computer.... Um yeah I paid 1500 for my desktop 3.5 years ago when I built it and my Macbook is 2 years old. It is not like I have money to burn. School and basic living expensive are covered by my parents but anything else has to come out of my own pocket and those funds are dangerously low.
$80 is borderline if I can afford to pay for it 120 pushes it out of my current price range and yes it will be a while before i buy it. That extra 40 bucks to me, a date with my girlfriend, or just repairs and maintenance for my bike (Mtn biking has a tenancy to break equipment) With my Saving already in the danger zone I am going to hold off. I figure I just take that 80 I was debating about it with and go send it funding my biking.
"It says it delivers on the 26, does that mean it will be at my door on the 26?"
That's kind of self-explanatory isn't it? I mean if they say "delivers on the 26th" I'd guess that means at your door unless you have it delivered to some other address
Oh. I see your point
No, I am not a Professor of English. I am not a professor anything. My username is "Prof." because people called me Prof. in school. I don't know why, I guess they thought I was REALLY SMART.
I guess the joke's on them! lol.
Prof.
Don't know if this was already figured out but...
Student pricing seems to be $116, wheras if you buy as faculty/staff at the individual purchases store, it's 69.00. That's at any university, and explains the Cornell U. post.
Student pricing seems to be $116, wheras if you buy as faculty/staff at the individual purchases store, it's 69.00. That's at any university, and explains the Cornell U. post.
how do you prove you're faculty/staff? how does that work? i'm in grad school and am a TA and teach three different classes. i'm not technically faculty/staff... but i am a paid employee of the university...
No mention of Java 6 support in the 300+ features
A lot of software engineers use MacBooks and MacBook Pros. I was at a recent software conference in Seattle where every single presenter (OK, with maybe one exception, though I don't think I attended any of that guy's talks) had a MacBook Pro. Even the Microsoft guy had a MBP! The presenters were almost uniformly in favor of rank-and-file developers buying Apple hardware, because of the OS and the quality of the hardware.
On the other hand, at least one presenter did a show-of-hands poll (not scientific, but useful for ad hoc trend discovery), and saw that most developers were developing for Java 1.4 or Java 5... the two JVMs that OS X Tiger supports. A small handful were developing for Java 6, to which the speaker said, "Ah, I bet none of you guys are using Macs for your development environment." Indeed, while most audience members had MacBooks or MBPs, these people all had other laptops.
Java 6 has been in the works for some time now. Apple's Java engineers discussed the early access beta almost two years ago at JavaOne. (That beta is no longer available at http://developer.apple.com/java/.)
Although the most recent WWDC hinted that Leopard would feature a 64-bit JVM, they didn't explicitly mention in the public materials whether this was Java 6 or just Java 5. (I also read somewhere else that this 64-bit JVM would only be available on Intel and not PPC, which is a slap at the G5 workstation and Xserve owners out there.) Those who have attended these WWDC sessions can't say anything because they are under NDA, which leaves developers like me in the dark.
When Tiger was released, Java 5 was a highly touted feature. If Java 6 doesn't make it to Leopard, I will be seriously disinclined to upgrade to Leopard, nor will I likely purchase a new Apple laptop. (I'm in the market for a new laptop now, and I'm holding off until I find out about MacBook updates and whether Leopard has Java 6.)
That Apple has omitted almost all mention of Java in the promotional materials for Leopard is worrisome. A large number of MacBook Pro sales are to software developers, especially developers doing Java and Ruby on Rails. They mention Ruby and Rails development in Xcode, but don't mention Java 6... what does that tell you?
Sun could step up and start producing a JDK for OS X, but they don't currently. Apple has been maintaining the Java port for OS X because they do a lot of custom things to make Java integrate better with the OS, and it would be a pity if that tight integration disappeared. But after being told by Apple's engineers at JavaOne in '06 that the days of Java releases lagging so far behind other platforms was a thing of the past, this is a worrisome development. I know Leopard's delay was partly due to the iPhone rollout. But after recently discovering that Apple decided to deprecate the Java-Cocoa bridge, I started to worry. With this feature list announcement, I have even more reason to worry.
I suspect that if Leopard doesn't give us any Java 6 support (and I don't even care if it's a 64-bit JVM or not), I won't be buying any more Mac portables anytime soon. I've already held off on Java 6 development for a year waiting for an official release for OS X. I suspect a lot of developers will be thinking the same thing.
Kind of odd. I never thought a software announcement from Apple would have such a profound effect on my choice of what laptop to buy. Yeah, I know I could buy a MB or MBP and throw Linux or even (ugh) Windows on it... but what's the point of buying a Mac if not to run OS X? I could spend less money on a commodity laptop and throw Ubuntu on it, and be productive.
A lot of software engineers use MacBooks and MacBook Pros. I was at a recent software conference in Seattle where every single presenter (OK, with maybe one exception, though I don't think I attended any of that guy's talks) had a MacBook Pro. Even the Microsoft guy had a MBP! The presenters were almost uniformly in favor of rank-and-file developers buying Apple hardware, because of the OS and the quality of the hardware.
On the other hand, at least one presenter did a show-of-hands poll (not scientific, but useful for ad hoc trend discovery), and saw that most developers were developing for Java 1.4 or Java 5... the two JVMs that OS X Tiger supports. A small handful were developing for Java 6, to which the speaker said, "Ah, I bet none of you guys are using Macs for your development environment." Indeed, while most audience members had MacBooks or MBPs, these people all had other laptops.
Java 6 has been in the works for some time now. Apple's Java engineers discussed the early access beta almost two years ago at JavaOne. (That beta is no longer available at http://developer.apple.com/java/.)
Although the most recent WWDC hinted that Leopard would feature a 64-bit JVM, they didn't explicitly mention in the public materials whether this was Java 6 or just Java 5. (I also read somewhere else that this 64-bit JVM would only be available on Intel and not PPC, which is a slap at the G5 workstation and Xserve owners out there.) Those who have attended these WWDC sessions can't say anything because they are under NDA, which leaves developers like me in the dark.
When Tiger was released, Java 5 was a highly touted feature. If Java 6 doesn't make it to Leopard, I will be seriously disinclined to upgrade to Leopard, nor will I likely purchase a new Apple laptop. (I'm in the market for a new laptop now, and I'm holding off until I find out about MacBook updates and whether Leopard has Java 6.)
That Apple has omitted almost all mention of Java in the promotional materials for Leopard is worrisome. A large number of MacBook Pro sales are to software developers, especially developers doing Java and Ruby on Rails. They mention Ruby and Rails development in Xcode, but don't mention Java 6... what does that tell you?
Sun could step up and start producing a JDK for OS X, but they don't currently. Apple has been maintaining the Java port for OS X because they do a lot of custom things to make Java integrate better with the OS, and it would be a pity if that tight integration disappeared. But after being told by Apple's engineers at JavaOne in '06 that the days of Java releases lagging so far behind other platforms was a thing of the past, this is a worrisome development. I know Leopard's delay was partly due to the iPhone rollout. But after recently discovering that Apple decided to deprecate the Java-Cocoa bridge, I started to worry. With this feature list announcement, I have even more reason to worry.
I suspect that if Leopard doesn't give us any Java 6 support (and I don't even care if it's a 64-bit JVM or not), I won't be buying any more Mac portables anytime soon. I've already held off on Java 6 development for a year waiting for an official release for OS X. I suspect a lot of developers will be thinking the same thing.
Kind of odd. I never thought a software announcement from Apple would have such a profound effect on my choice of what laptop to buy. Yeah, I know I could buy a MB or MBP and throw Linux or even (ugh) Windows on it... but what's the point of buying a Mac if not to run OS X? I could spend less money on a commodity laptop and throw Ubuntu on it, and be productive.
...and, peace on earth and goodwill toward men, and women.
The pink one is fugly as sin. I wouldn't mind getting my hands on that wall for Leopard itself.