Apple on iPhone Battery Locking Issue: We Want to Make Sure Battery Replacement is Done Properly

[JRobinsonJr]

You can still repair it. Apple isn't stopping you from doing this. The same thing if I add an aftermarket radio in my truck, some stuff will not work if I did this. Should I sue the car manufacturer because if this?

Absolutely not! Of course 3rd party product can (and do) have a different set of capabilities and are warranteed independently of the primary vehicle.

HOWEVER, current Right to Repair laws also do not allow an automotive manufacturer to DISABLE any feature based on the use of a 3rd party product. So, disabling the battery monitoring function would not be allowed.

 

[realtuner]

You seem to be suggesting I am missing a point that is not even being discussed. Apple has not said a word about this being done to prevent the use of stolen iPhones.

iCloud already does an excellent job dis-incentivizing the theft of an iPhone. The amount of work required to get around an iCloud lock in labor exceeds the value of the stolen device anywhere but a third world country. I sure as hell would never do it - and it isn't even about me being an angel, it just makes no sense from a time/money/work involved perspective.

If you are talking about the point of BMW doing this to prevent the theft of automobiles or automotive parts, then what point are we even discussing? Anti-theft measures have nothing to do with the reporting of battery health here.

Preventing the reuse of parts from stolen iPhones (batteries or TouchID sensors paired to iPhones are a couple examples) is definitely a theft deterrent.

Since Activation Lock is practically impossible to bypass, then the ONLY possible use for a stolen iPhone is for spare parts. Making the last few components people might try to reuse give a warning (or stop working) when swapped is absolutely going to have an effect on thefts. Criminals learn things very quickly about what products can get them money and which ones are worthless. This is why iPhone thefts dropped substantially when Activation Lock came out. News amongst thieves gets around fast.

HOWEVER, current Right to Repair laws also do not allow an automotive manufacturer to DISABLE any feature based on the use of a 3rd party product. So, disabling the battery monitoring function would not be allowed.

This is absolutely 100% false. Automotive engineering is the industry I work in, and there are numerous examples of this. I’d love for you to quote any actual official documentation that supports this.

Further, as I explained previously in this thread, companies (like automobile manufacturers) absolutely DO NOT have to make all parts, repair procedures and tools/software available to the aftermarket industry. Particularly something security related (like immobilizers, remote access keys and the like).

Related to Right to Repair is the Magnusson Moss Warranty act. Here, manufacturers can also specify specific procedures that must be followed when conducting repairs, and third party shops are also required to follow these procedures. These may require specific tools, materials (like fluids in vehicles) or specifications.

I don’t know why people seem to think Right to Repair is some wide-open guaranteed access to every little component, procedure, documentation or whatever is required to repair a device.

 

[Defthand]

Preventing the reuse of parts from stolen iPhones (batteries or TouchID sensors paired to iPhones are a couple examples) is definitely a theft deterrent.

Since Activation Lock is practically impossible to bypass, then the ONLY possible use for a stolen iPhone is for spare parts. Making the last few components people might try to reuse give a warning (or stop working) when swapped is absolutely going to have an effect on thefts. Criminals learn things very quickly about what products can get them money and which ones are worthless. This is why iPhone thefts dropped substantially when Activation Lock came out. News amongst thieves gets around fast.




This is absolutely 100% false. Automotive engineering is the industry I work in, and there are numerous examples of this. I’d love for you to quote any actual official documentation that supports this.

Further, as I explained previously in this thread, companies (like automobile manufacturers) absolutely DO NOT have to make all parts, repair procedures and tools/software available to the aftermarket industry. Particularly something security related (like immobilizers, remote access keys and the like).

Related to Right to Repair is the Magnusson Moss Warranty act. Here, manufacturers can also specify specific procedures that must be followed when conducting repairs, and third party shops are also required to follow these procedures. These may require specific tools, materials (like fluids in vehicles) or specifications.

I don’t know why people seem to think Right to Repair is some wide-open guaranteed access to every little component, procedure, documentation or whatever is required to repair a device.

You insist others support their opinions and claims with evidence. Where is your evidence that iPhone theft and chopping is Apple's driver for their battery's authenticator? I can't find a single mention on the net linking the two.

 

[ranida]

Except a genuine OEM battery salvaged from another iPhone presents the same warning.

Key word is salvaged... Already used

 

[JPack]

Key word is salvaged... Already used

Which doesn't make it non-genuine.

 

[realtuner]

You insist others support their opinions and claims with evidence. Where is your evidence that iPhone theft and chopping is Apple's driver for their battery's authenticator? I can't find a single mention on the net linking the two.

I never claimed Apple said this. I said it was one benefit of displaying this message (discourages theft). I have no idea what the complete list of reasons Apple has for this and which ones they think are important. We only have their press release, which I doubt is a complete run down of all their motivations.


Edited: Curious, have you called out the numerous people who claim Apple is doing this only to increase revenues and screw over independent repair shops? Have you asked them for official proof from Apple?

 

[Kali_ddos]

Edited:

Did not realize the person in the video was an actual MR member, so my apologies for the over-the-top language.

And u have pissed a lot of ppl by doing that as
well

 

[YoYoBoBo]

Apple isn't locking you out of their phone. It's telling you that Apple cannot guarantee that their battery health feature will work as designed with an unknown battery and unpredictable performance. Can you blame them for that?

The later versions of Windows Genuine Experience do not lock you out of your PC. They let you know that activation has failed and maybe you should have that looked at.

It was found that even a healthy official iPhone battery would consistently give this error. I don’t think you knew this, and of course do your own research on this, but that invalidates your argument. Either batteries are magical objects that defy human understanding, the people who coded the battery health checker wrote it so terribly that it won’t work for identical batteries, or this is intentional.

 

[jgdeschamps]

Correct. Unlike on Android, phones with batteries that are unable to meet the demand for current, will slow down and not shut down.

The background for this whole battery replacement lock, along with the throttling feature will always make me ask myself "Is this really true?"
My Huawei is less than 6 months old, so I cannot comment on sudden shutdowns. I hope the system's Optimizer app informs me when the phone needs a battery replacement, since it suggests every other day some sort of feature shut down that I'm not using to maximize CPU and battery performance. It's up to me if I accept the suggestion.
However, I also think that most people don't care/are aware of good battery charging habits, summed to different use cases that significantly reduce their devices' battery life. I had an iPhone SE that after two years and some months of usage, had its battery operating at 94% capacity, while my wife's SE (bought at the same time as mine) had its battery at 82% capacity. She definitely didn't follow the "charge at 20%, disconnect at 95%" unspoken rule.

 

[Virinprew]

This also probably means that Apple won't throttle your phone, since it can't do an accurate battery check.

How do you know whether they can’t really check or just withhold the info from you?

 

[Wanted797]

Full of BS!
Replacing battery is NOT HARD AT ALL!
So Apple basically thinks everyone is stupid enough to not be capable of doing a very easy thing.
How dare you

Apple has been doing it for years. They made the Mac with the intent of you NOT opening it. Or having the ports for people to mess with their product.

In saying that I would love a right to repair. Like car maintenance.

 

[Rockadile]

No one: My non-genuine Apple battery from the non-authorized shop is so shoddy that it had to be banned on planes.

2015 MBP owners with genuine Apple battery on the other hand

 

[Defthand]

I never claimed Apple said this. I said it was one benefit of displaying this message (discourages theft). I have no idea what the complete list of reasons Apple has for this and which ones they think are important. We only have their press release, which I doubt is a complete run down of all their motivations.


Edited: Curious, have you called out the numerous people who claim Apple is doing this only to increase revenues and screw over independent repair shops? Have you asked them for official proof from Apple?

Your recall doesn't jive with your literal comments. You insisted OEM batteries in the free market could only come from stolen devices. You then stated exclusively that Apple's authentication requirements would deter thefts and elaborated on its purpose with automobiles. You beat that idea's drum as if Apple—or the industry—had acknowledged it was a solution for the same reasons.

***
I don't ask speculators to prove their suspicions or theories, but I will challenge those who do to do the same. At most, I will ask an opinionator to elaborate or explain his feelings.

 

[NY Guitarist]

A replacement battery doesn't automatically mean the phone needs 'service'.

Unless there is an obvious and verifiable service issue, battery status should indicate nothing more than the battery may not be an Apple factory replacement.

That’s what I thought “Service” indicates. That either it’s not a factory replacement OR someone who’s in business to replace iPhone batteries don’t think it’s important to pay Apple to be certified to do so.

Apple is unnecessarily using the term 'Service' to misrepresent the status of a replacement battery.

 

[realtuner]

Your recall doesn't jive with your literal comments. You insisted OEM batteries in the free market could only come from stolen devices. You then stated exclusively that Apple's authentication requirements would deter thefts and elaborated on its purpose with automobiles. You beat that idea's drum as if Apple—or the industry—had acknowledged it was a solution for the same reasons.

***
I don't ask speculators to prove their suspicions or theories, but I will challenge those who do to do the same. At most, I will ask an opinionator to elaborate or explain his feelings.

Don't lie about what I said. I never once stated OEM batteries could ONLY come from stolen devices.

 

[djdrah]

Well, my only issue is that - fortunately - there are other Android alternatives than just Samsung. That bit of diversity is Android's strong point, though it's a double edged sword. Apple, being the sole source for Apple compatible products, has an advantage in both design and repair of their hardware and software products. In the past, that contributed to a reputation for their offerings being well made and reliable, with first class service available over the life of the products - though more expensive. That reputation has been tarnished the last few years. So yes, if all else fails, leave Apple and buy PCs and non-Apple phones. PCs even have the advantage of having two compatible systems available - Windows or Linux - and a plethora of different manufacturers from which to choose. Unfortunately with phones, though many manufacturers are still available, non-Android systems are next to non-existent. So with Apple, take it or leave it - they are the sole source, and they'd prefer to be the sole repairer; with Android, if you don't like Samsung go for LG or other brands - get serviced wherever you wish. If you are an iOS or MacOS fan, you're even more tied to the Apple fold. In my case, having once been in the Apple walled garden with desktops, laptops, phones, and tablets, I now still own a 2-year old iMac and iPad, an iPhone 6S+ that I won't replace with another iPhone (I like phone jacks), and gave up on Apple laptops years ago (I like ports, reliable keyboards, magsafe, and expandability/repairability). I'm perfectly happy with Linux on high quality PC offerings and enjoy listening to music using the phone jack on my LG V40 (with 4 channel DAC) connected to nice wired headphones. Over the last five years, I've decided to listen to folks like you who offer that Apple is "fine with losing me as a customer." I believe you, and am adjusting. The Apple I held in high esteem died with Steve Jobs. Time to move on.

Amen

 

[willnpc]

"it is of course going to make customers wary of third-party repair shops that are not authorized by Apple"

No, it's gonna make customers wary of purchasing Apple products... just like I will never buy the new MacBook Pro because they glued down the battery, soldered the ram, ssd, etc, and cannot be repaired....now it looks like I will never buy the iPhone XS either... I think it's time to switch to android and PC

 

[flygbuss]

The used phone quality argument, for the most part, is a non-starter because unless you’re doing your purchase and ignoring existing concerns with respect to making sure you’re not being ripped off, you can just check the phone in person (if buying via something like craigslist.) Buy it off eBay, and you got one with a used/bad battery? If the seller didn’t disclose that, you can resolve and get a refund from eBay if the seller refuses to accept the return and get your money back.

These arguments are, quite frankly, rather silly, especially considering the recent MacBook Pro recall due to bad batteries. Even Apple can install crappy batteries.

It’s rather silly to compare it to the faulty batteries Apple sold with one generation of MacBook Pros compared to how many generations of Macs, iPhones, iPads etc. without battery issues?
Like I said, I do get why many people see it as a huge disadvantage. I just wanted to point out that there might be some good side effects to it as well.
And of course I know that I can get a refund if the product I bought is faulty.
It just would be good if the product would be flawless as described in the first place. Not everybody is as techy as you seem to be.

 

[Tech198]

Apple's getting smarter.

"it is of course going to make customers wary of third-party repair shops that are not authorized by Apple"

No, it's gonna make customers wary of purchasing Apple products... just like I will never buy the new MacBook Pro because they glued down the battery, soldered the ram, ssd, etc, and cannot be repaired....now it looks like I will never buy the iPhone XS either... I think it's time to switch to android and PC

Long term Apple users will always be part of Apple.. its only the new-comers, that will make a mad dash for the exit. Many times you see a slip, that will push people over the edge, but who's to really know if they gave up or not

 

[VulchR]

Then why not use the guy in town or do the job yourself via iFixit? Your phone will still run. And life goes on.

Sigh. Imagine you had your car fixed by a roadside recovery service because you could not reach an authorised dealer. Would you want the electronics in the car flagging up this for any future owners even if the repair was done by a competent person using high-quality parts. Apple is not trying to protect consumers. It is trying to protect its very high profit margins.

 

[I7guy]

Sigh. Imagine you had your car fixed by a roadside recovery service because you could not reach an authorised dealer. Would you want the electronics in the car flagging up this for any future owners even if the repair was done by a competent person using high-quality parts. Apple is not trying to protect consumers. It is trying to protect its very high profit margins.

Sigh. Imagine this same unscrupulous repair shop changed out some of the expensive oem parts for cheaper alternatives, would you want to know about it? All apple is doing is flagging a situation where the phone has been opened, potentially mitigating the water resistance and the battery changed by an unauthorized party.

 

[SaucyWeeTart]

Just the latest way Tim Cook has devalued brand loyalty and image to possible consumers. Disaster after disaster. Crazy how much brand image doesn’t matter to this CEO - really absurd crazy levels when you look at the face of it. Worrying to say the least.

What on earth are you babbling on about? Apple's brand equity being the beating heart of their entire business is one of the most conspicuous facts in the known universe and ol' Timmy realises this just fine.

 

[curtvaughan]

Apple's getting smarter.



Long term Apple users will always be part of Apple.. its only the new-comers, that will make a mad dash for the exit. Many times you see a slip, that will push people over the edge, but who's to really know if they gave up or not

Well, this hasn't been the case for me. Perhaps I don't qualify as a long term Apple user - my first experience with Apple was with an Apple II in the early 80s, a few years later a first gen. Mac (at work), a Mac Pro (cheese grater) in the early 2000's at work, and then a succession of MBPs, 3 iMacs, 3 iPads, and 3 iPhones since 2006. Over the last 5 years I have become very disenchanted with Apple for reasons it seems pointless now to re-enumerate. I am in an accelerating dash for the exit. I will likely buy another iMac in a year or two to replace my current 2-year old iMac, but my 2017 iPad Pro (which I really like) will be my last, as will be my iPhone 6s+ (which I also like), as neither of the new ones have phone jacks - which I want and need for adequate use of my high end headphones. I don't care what Phil Schiller thinks - bluetooth headphones and speakers cannot approach the quality I get with my Sennheiser and BeyerDynamic wired headphones. Headphone jacks, just like USB ports and SD card readers, are still much used and needed interfaces. But perhaps I'm just a new-comer.

 

[citysnaps]

Sigh. Imagine you had your car fixed by a roadside recovery service because you could not reach an authorised dealer. Would you want the electronics in the car flagging up this for any future owners even if the repair was done by a competent person using high-quality parts. Apple is not trying to protect consumers. It is trying to protect its very high profit margins.

Sigh. As adults we sometimes have to make difficult choices in life in order to live in an imperfect world.

For you, one of those difficult choices might be you (or a potential buyer of your phone at some distant time) being able to check your battery's health (Settings -> Battery -> Battery Health). Personally speaking, I've only done that once, when the feature was announced last year. But...I understand if you, or others, might want to do that several times a day for whatever reason. And that's fine if that's important to you.

With respect to the above, you have a very difficult choice to make. If it steams you so much where insisting to use a non-Apple authorized repair company means you cannot check your battery's health often (because Apple cannot guarantee the Battery Health will work due to parts and labor being out of their control), then you have to understand you're required to make a difficult choice.

You have a range of options available to you; from going with another phone manufacturer who meets 100% of your needs and requirements, to living with the fact that Settings -> Battery -> Battery Health is not available to you but your phone otherwise still works fine.

Simply make that difficult choice.

 

[YoYoBoBo]

Sigh. Imagine this same unscrupulous repair shop changed out some of the expensive oem parts for cheaper alternatives, would you want to know about it? All apple is doing is flagging a situation where the phone has been opened, potentially mitigating the water resistance and the battery changed by an unauthorized party.

Sigh. Imagine this same repair shop changed out some of the expensive oem parts for identical expensive oem parts, and you suddenly see a strange alert that suggest that there is still a problem. All apple is doing is flagging a situation where the phone has been opened using an alert that any person would think meant that the parts are faulty when they aren’t.

Interestingly enough, Apple doesn’t own my iPhone, so they can’t authorize or unauthorize people to fix my phone. Only I can. People don’t get authorized to build personal PCs because they don’t need to. They bought the hardware, they own the hardware.

But you’re right about potentially weakening the water resistance. I couldn’t bear to not be able to use my phone during my vigorous 2 hour swimming routine. I wouldn’t want to hurt my phone’s water resistance in exchange for replacing my broken battery so I can actually use my phone, and I certainly wouldn’t want at least the choice for a new battery in exchange for slightly worse water resistance. My water resistance is far too valuable to even dare touch my battery, and Apple is so nice that they will give me a scary alert for any replacement battery so that I won’t make the same mistake again. Damn those third party repair shops!

You’re right, I’m far too stupid to be able to make responsible choices and choose for myself if I want to replace my battery or not. How can Apple expect me to do research or understand the consequences of my actions?

You know what, I’ll just get a new iPhone. No need to think much about that decision if I have the money for it. Frankly the stress of my phone not having 100% stock water resistance is too much. Even if my phone now has a longer battery life, the battery didn’t come from Tim Cook himself so it might blow up my phone or make it run Android.
[doublepost=1565965695][/doublepost]

Key word is salvaged... Already used

That suggests that the second a new iPhone is turned on, the battery becomes “used” and inadequate. Despite the battery working fine, you’re suggesting that if I take the battery out and put it in a different phone, it’s “already used” so I shouldn’t expect it to work.

That also suggests that anything that is not completely brand new is faulty.