Apple on Right to Repair: We Want Customers to Be Confident Their Products Will Be 'Repaired Safely and Correctly'

[JazzyGB1]

And if you're buying a second hand phone, how do you know it's repair history?
And if you're on a plane or in a hotel, how do you know the repair history of your fellow travellers / lodgers?
The risk of bad repairs is not taken solely by the owner at the time and bad repairs involving these batteries are a threat to life.

Oh come on that's an absurd comment.
There are millions of flights every day with I'm sure hundreds, if not thousands of repaired items from multiple manufacturers in the sky at any time and they all arrive safely.
There's absolutely no evidence whatsoever to support your claim that these items are a 'threat to life' at all.
In fact all the evidence says the complete opposite, so your suggestion that Apple need to repair on the grounds of aircraft safety are completely without foundation.

 

[JetLaw]

Until it blows up or catches fire. Then it must be Apple’s fault and it’s time to sue.

Products liability law is well-settled (and has been for many decades) in that for liability to accrue to the original manufacturer for harm arising from an unreasonably dangerous product, that the product must not have been modified. So, in this instance, a third-party repair that did not return the device to the same condition it was when new would cut off Apple's liability.

In point of fact, by your reasoning, Apple is actually increasing its own potential liability by
preventing third parties from having access to genuine parts and documentation, thus increasing the likelihood that the improperly repaired devices will cause harm.
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Then the case would immediately be thrown out as Apple would not be the responsible party. The place that did the repairs would be.

Correct.

 

[harriska2]

But does that change the fact that some don’t have any idea how to even make generalized repairs themself? I can’t tell you how many times I’ve read on this forum alone members making repairs themselves and then ultimately something goes wrong with the repair, now they’re with a product that’s useless. I understand the money saving concept, but that really wasn’t the point behind my post. I was saying that generally consumers are not text savvy enough to make basic repairs, because they lack the knowledge and tools necessary.

If someone has the confidence and knowledge to make the repair, then by all means, go for it. Just Understand the risks behind it.

Some of us put our own computers together, there are lots of gamers that do it. If you screw up a repair, then you screw up a repair. If you whine about it, then you’re an idiot to ignore. If you work on your car and screw it up, you go out to a mechanic to get it fixed right. It’s been happening for decades. You should ALWAYS have the right to repair your own stuff. Period. It’s so obvious I’m just not understanding the pushback - unless Apple and big business is paying people like you to post this stuff?
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[44267547]

You should ALWAYS have the right to repair your own stuff

This was never even part of my argument, so you’re kind of off-base here. Case in point of what I was saying, _if_ you take the basis of making a repair yourself, then accept the ramifications if it goes wrong. Some understand this concept and others don’t take the precautions of planning out if it’s not the most appropriate decision to make the repair themselves if they have the don’t have the necessary tools/experience.

 

[zed1291]

Apple has a bad track record when it come to safe repairs, they have been known to do further damage to owners equipment and then turn round and try to BS them into buying a new say Laptop when it was a simple repair but due to bad repair attempt they no longer a simple repair yet the customer has to pay for their mistakes

that is not what Apples reputation is. They currently have the highest support experience of any tech company. Any service you received like that was likely an anomaly (but I’d guess you’re leaving out crucial details).

 

[harriska2]

This was never even part of my argument, so you’re kind of off-base here. Case in point of what I was saying, _if_ you take the basis of making a repair yourself, then accept the ramifications if it goes wrong.

My bad, you are correct in my mis-statement of your argument.

 

[Manzanito]

Unauthorized shops perform repairs on apple products, which is a blessing if you happen to own older macs that authorized service providers will refuse to even look at.

So all apple is making sure is that the people performing repairs have a harder time, and that we as consumers have to pay through the nose for nearly criminal prices on upgrades such as ssd and RAM, since we won’t be able to upgrade them once the computer is bought.

 

[hotdwag]

Recent design choices and moves clearly show that Apple is designing products to obtain more money from consumers / companies. Repairability can't even be done "Safely and Securely" due to these moves. The main reason for these choices seems like a move to increase revenue stream for things such as AppleCare+ (Revenue in services, which includes the App Stores Apple Care, Apple Pay, iCloud and Apple Music, increased to $11.46 billion from $10.17 billion - https://www.cnbc.com/2019/07/30/apple-services-revenue-q3-2019.html)

1) Product lines have been modified to use soldered components which cannot be replaced. They even went so far to remove the data recovery port from newer logic boards.
2) Moves such as gluing batteries in the chassis create situations where non-experienced users can puncture. Some product lines (Air) have screwed in batteries, why isn't this universal? Why not pull tabs like the iPhone?
3) Genuine parts aren't available from Apple directly to complete the repairs unless through expensive AASP programs.

It's true that you don't want someone inexperienced to repair equipment, but they outright have designed their products (lately) to prevent anyone from repairing "safely and securely". I like Apple products, but it's funny when Apple attempts to defend their stance of right to repair.

 

[Winni]

This is terrible legislation and over reach.

Yes. Apple absolutely should be allowed to void warranties based on self repair.

No. Apple should never be forced to sell parts.

They aren’t running a charity.

Most of Apple's customers are not running charities either. Why should they pay an Apple premium tax if a mom & pop shop around the corner can do the same job for less money? Just because Apple's business strategy says so?

Here's the thing, though: If you want to have a certain level of control over the hard- and software that you are using, then you simply cannot buy products from Apple or Microsoft or from any other big US-American corporation that tries to lock its customers into their ecosystem -- instead you should custom-build your own powerful PC and run Open Source Software on it.
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By keeping the internals of the chip secret, which Apple already does. Everyone has physical access to the chip - you only need to open the cover of the device to get to it.

And nobody needs to know how that chip works in order to "repair" it -- because for several decades now "repairing" means that you simply replace the broken chip with a new one. But in order to do so, you need to be able to purchase that chip as a spare part. Which is exactly what Apple is trying to prevent.

 

[Winni]

that is not what Apples reputation is. They currently have the highest support experience of any tech company

Does literally everything have to be a superlative when it comes to Apple? I'm pretty sure that IBM -- which was founded in 1911, 75 years (!) before Apple -- must due to its age alone have MUCH more experience with support than Apple or ANY other tech company on the planet. After all, IBM was already selling computers before Steve Jobs was even born.

 

[sransari]

Apple has a right to sell their repair products to whomever they wish. If they only want to sell those products to specific groups, that's their right, not YOUR right to demand that Apple sells them to you. You don't have a right to force someone else to sell their property to you.

Also, if for some reason Apple was forced to sell their products to the general public, they probably would sell it at a higher price than to the authorized repair centers.

 

[TheShadowKnows!]

Data recovery is often time-consuming, expensive, and the results can never be guaranteed. It's not hard to understand why Apple doesn't want to get involved with it. They don't want to authorise anyone else for data recovery either for similar reasons because nobody can guarantee a consistent experience.

If Apple were to admit data recovery can potentially be possible, but we don't do it, and we don't authorise anyone else for it either - they would effectively be encouraging customers to go down the unauthorised route. And Apple is never going to do that.

"We"? Twice?

Dude do you work for Apple?

If so, you are nothing more than a paid Apple shill? (You are not the only one, in here, and feel well-accompanied.)

Your opinion is tainted, dude. This explains your recalcitrant pro-Apple stand for every single issue, regardless of reasonable doubt.

 

[powerboy123]

...Sure..when an Apple T2 chip is widely available to fix Macbooks everything will be fine.... yeah... sure.. repair it.. but you need Apples' special chip to make everything work.. one step forward one back..

 

[redheeler]

It is MUCH better for apple to repair your computer for $1000 than have some random hobo do it for $100 even if they do the same thing. Apple knows best!!

You should learn more about the right-to-repair issue before making a post like this defending Apple. The reality is so much more complicated than your simplistic viewpoint.

 

[grjj]

Ensure it’s repaired “safely and correctly”… right.
While I don’t disagree, if people are allowed to repair their cars - objects that weigh thousands of pounds and transports people at high speeds - then yeah, it’s not unreasonable for a person to expect to be able to replace the battery on their phone.

As far as I know car manufacturers are not requires to publish their factory service manuals to the public. Most do sell parts, to anyone who wants to pay for them (or at least to authorized repair shops) and there's a thriving 3rd party parts and repair market.

I don't see how your comparison to Apple is any different: Apple declines to provide take-apart and service manuals to the public, sells parts to authorized repair shops and there's a thriving 3rd party parts and repair market.
in both cases, 3rd party repair doesn't necessarily void any warranty coverage, but the 3rd party parts themselves and any damaged cause by them or in the process of a non-authorized repair installing such parts are not covered failures under Apple's warranty.

 

[QuarterSwede]

I'm a fan of the Apple products that I own, but this is a load of bs. If the repair is not repaired 'correctly', that's between the consumer and the repair shop. Places that do bad repairs will become known as such and people will avoid them. In the mean time, places that do good repair work will save consumers thousands of dollars every year, which is money that wouldn't go to Apple, hence why they don't want anyone else repairing the hardware they make.

I believe it. I only go to Apple now that the one time I went to an authorized Apple repair place they took days to fix my MacBook and took a while to let me know what was going on. Apparently they didn't have the part. At Apple I've never had to wait because they can do most repairs in house the same day.

 

[MvdM]

Read and watch Snazzy Lab's story. Tldr: Apple damaged his iMac pro.
https://iphone.appleinsider.com/art...a-mount-fueling-new-episode-of-repair-anxiety

 

[tito2020]

Sure Tim, Just send the link to where I can order genuine Apple Parts at a fair price and I'm good.

Simple solution: don't buy apple products.

 

[QuarterSwede]

It is MUCH better for apple to repair your computer for $1000 than have some random hobo do it for $100 even if they do the same thing. Apple knows best!!

"Mooooooother knoooooows best."

 

[H2SO4]

Louis Rossmann is about as far away as you can possibly get for an objective opinion about Apple.

Are you?
He repairs all brands at board level. His opinion is just as valid, (or not), as yours, mine, anybody on this board, or Tim Cook.
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Simple solution: don't buy apple products.

This is bigger than Apple. It's right to repair in general.

 

[apolloa]

Right to Repair advocates continue to lobby the U.S. government, arguing that large tech companies like Apple are monopolizing repairs of consumer electronics in order to preserve profits, reports Axios.

Image: iFixit.com​

In testimony before the U.S. House Judiciary Subcommittee on Antitrust, Commercial and Administrative Law last month, Nathan Proctor of the non-profit U.S. Public Interest Research Group claimed that "repair hurts sales," giving Apple "an incentive to restrict repair of their devices."

Similarly, in a letter submitted to the subcommittee last month, The Repair Association's executive director Gay Gordon-Byrne wrote that "manufacturers have no reasons for blocking repair other than money," referring to the "monopolization of repair" as a "huge profit opportunity."

In March, California became the 20th state to introduce Right to Repair legislation in the U.S., according to iFixit. Apple representatives have continually opposed these bills, which if passed would require companies to make repair parts, tools, and documentation available to the public.

In a statement, an Apple spokesperson told Axios that Apple's goal is to ensure its products are "repaired safely and correctly," while touting the company's growing network of Apple Authorized Service Providers:Apple Authorized Service Providers have access to certified parts and service guidelines from Apple. There are over 1,800 of these authorized locations in the United States, which Apple said is "three times as many locations as three years ago." As of June, that includes every Best Buy store in the country.

Right to Repair legislation aims to make these parts and documentation available to independent shops and customers directly.

Article Link: Apple on Right to Repair: We Want Customers to Be Confident Their Products Will Be 'Repaired Safely and Correctly'

Be careful what you wish for, in the EU garages moaned they couldn’t repair cars as the computers were not available to them.
Now that’s to the inept EU in the EU the manufacturer diagnostic computers are freely available to buy, and the computer ports for cars are ALL in the same spot next to the steering wheel, so theives buy these computers, and thanks to EU law they can break into your car and access your ODB port without setting the alarm off, plug the computer in and steal your car.
Thanks to the EU car thefts went up drastically, all because those independent garages complained...

 

[nt5672]

How do you keep a secure enclave secured, if everyone can physically access it?

Well everyone can physically access it now. So I don't understand what you're on about.

The question is it Apple's responsibility after you buy your phone or is it the phones owner's responsibility. I would suggest that it is the phone owner's responsibility. If I take my phone to a disreputable repair service and suffer because I saved a few $$, then that is my responsibility and should be my decision. After all I am not stupid or ignorant. But I guess I have to agree that being stupid or ignorant seems to be a trait for a lot Apple users that only want to live in their safe area with padded white walls and no sharp corners.

Now Apple could do the decent thing and force 3rd party repairs to clear the secure enclave, either by the user beforehand or automatically by Apple at the beginning of an unauthorized repair. Seems simple enough. Open the case, clear the secure enclave, unless of course there is another motive to Apple's stance. Which I suggest there is; money.

 

[jwdsail]

Am I the only person who'd rather light their computer on fire than trust Best Buy with it?

 

[powerboy123]

Are you?
He repairs all brands at board level. His opinion is just as valid, (or not), as yours, mine, anybody on this board, or Tim Cook.
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This is bigger than Apple. It's right to repair in general.

This is the new revenue stream as the Lightning connector is almost dead and Apple's charge of 1.15usd per connector will shift to $350/chip for their T2 and gatekeeper chips for 3rd party repair- just shifting the profit to another chipset.. s

 

[Ries]

Simple solution: don't buy apple products.

Even better, make it required to sell spareparts. You can pay Apple 75% of a new laptop and I can replace the flex cable myself for $20. Win-win except for apple.