Apple Ordered to Stop Selling iPhones Without Charger in Brazil [Updated]

[djstile]

The number of people who know the iPhone doesn’t come with a charger will be lower than the number of people who need to buy a charger for their new iPhone. They are two different things.

Agreed.

It’s really irrelevant for what reasons Apple made the move as long as the desired effect was achieved.

But we will need an independent study to analyse the environmental impact of this change.

Disagree. Companies that take an action to save money or increase profits under the guise of environmentalism should be called out. If the environment is improved - then that is a great side effect. The end does not justify the means.

 

[mrochester]

This is a strawman. At no time did I argue that Apple should charge more for a charger. My argument is a cell phone should come with a charger, full stop. In this case, Apple should give an iPhone purchaser the option to receive one charger FOR FREE with their purchase if they want it WITHOUT raising prices on anything.

If the desired effect is to reduce your environmental footprint, giving chargers away for free is not the right approach as due to human psychology, people will ask for them even if they don’t need them.

The whole point of Apple’s change is to reduce the amount of chargers being manufactured and shipped. You do that by charging for them so that people are encouraged to use their existing chargers.

 

[mrochester]

This is assuming they have an existing charger. My argument is that not everyone has an existing charger and that Apple should supple the ability to charge a $1000 phone without any additional purchase.

I suspect most people will have an existing charger given how many different phones and other devices come with power bricks that can be used to charge a phone. We also know from how saturated the smartphone market is that the vast majority of the worlds population already has had at least one phone, and thus a charger, that they can use.

Not everyone will have a charger they can use but I suspect they will be heavily outnumbered by people that do.

 

[djstile]

If the desired effect is to reduce your environmental footprint, giving chargers away for free is not the right approach as due to human psychology, people will ask for them even if they don’t need them.

The whole point of Apple’s change is to reduce the amount of chargers being manufactured and shipped. You do that by charging for them so that people are encouraged to use their existing chargers.

If the desired effect by Apple is purely to reduce waste, then they should only sell a new iPhone every two to three years. They're not going to do that (as they shouldn't) because they are a for profit company that is in business to make money. My position is Apple did this to save money under the guise of environmentalism. That's my opinion on it and no one but Apple execs know their true motivation.

 

[mrochester]

Agreed.


Disagree. Companies that take an action to save money or increase profits under the guise of environmentalism should be called out. If the environment is improved - then that is a great side effect. The end does not justify the means.

Why does it matter what the motives are?

 

[mrochester]

If the desired effect by Apple is purely to reduce waste, then they should only sell a new iPhone every two to three years. They're not going to do that (as they shouldn't) because they are a for profit company that is in business to make money. My position is Apple did this to save money under the guise of environmentalism. That's my opinion on it and no one but Apple execs know their true motivation.

It doesn’t matter if they did it to save money, the outcome is likely still far fewer chargers manufactured and shipped, which is the actual important point.

 

[webkit]

My argument is a cell phone should come with a charger, full stop. In this case, Apple should give an iPhone purchaser the option to receive one charger FOR FREE with their purchase if they want it WITHOUT raising prices on anything.

Offering something for free may not have the same desired "cut down on waste" impact since many (most?) consumers will likely still take the free charger whether they need it or not.

How do we even know what Apple did regarding prices and chargers? Maybe the U.S. iPhone 14 prices instead of being $829, $929 and $1,129 would've been $849, $949 and $1,149 if they included a charger. By not including a charger, the customer could've potentially saved $20. For those that do need one, it's quite easy to add a charger to an order during checkout.

 

[mrochester]

Offering something for free may not have the same desired "cut down on waste" impact since many (most?) consumers will likely still take the free charger whether they need it or not.

How do we even know what Apple did regarding prices and chargers? Maybe the U.S. iPhone 14 prices instead of being $829, $929 and $1,129 would've been $849, $949 and $1,149 if they included a charger. By not including a charger, the customer could've potentially saved $20. For those that do need one, it's quite easy to add a charger to an order during checkout.

The very people who are criticising Apple for making this move due to financial reasons rather than environmental reasons are the same people who are calling on Apple to manufacture and ship chargers for every phone they sell, which is definitely NOT good for the environment.

It's a thinly veiled 'I don't give a **** about the environment, I want my charger' argument. They aren't interested in the environment at all, or certainly not when it hits their wallet.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

But if a user knowingly chucks a phone in the bin because they can’t be bothered to get the battery replaced, that’s on the user, not Apple.

No, if a user chucks a phone in the bin, it’s because they don’t want to recycle it. Apple makes recycling available. If they don’t want to recycle it, it’s on them.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

If the desired effect by Apple is purely to reduce waste, then they should only sell a new iPhone every two to three years. They're not going to do that (as they shouldn't) because they are a for profit company that is in business to make money. My position is Apple did this to save money under the guise of environmentalism. That's my opinion on it and no one but Apple execs know their true motivation.

Or, better yet, not sell any phones at all. Or any other products or provide services that use power and resources to repair and upkeep.

 

[lartola]

The whole point of Apple’s change is to reduce the amount of chargers being manufactured and shipped. You do that by charging for them so that people are encouraged to use their existing chargers.

Yeah but Apple’s main purpose for doing that is to cut costs. Helping the environment is just a nice side effect that they disguised as their main purpose to keep the hardcore fans happy. Even if that weren’t the case, the end doesn’t justify the means, as other people already pointed out. Furthermore, if Apple really cared about the environment they wouldn’t release new iphone models every year and by doing so throw millions of more devices out into the world every year, but they will continue to do so because their greed has gone out of their control.

 

[mrochester]

Yeah but Apple’s main purpose for doing that is to cut costs. Helping the environment is just a nice side effect that they disguised as their main purpose to keep the hardcore fans happy. Even if that weren’t the case, the end doesn’t justify the means, as other people already pointed out. Furthermore, if Apple really cared about the environment they wouldn’t release new iphone models every year, but they will continue to do so because their greed has gone out of their control.

Who cares what the reason is as long as it’s a benefit to the environment? Would it be better for Apple to ship chargers with every phone and not improve the environment?

 

[Unregistered 4U]

Furthermore, if Apple really cared about the environment they wouldn’t release new iphone models and by doing so throw millions of more devices out into the world every year, but they will continue to do so because their greed has gone out of their control.

Nah, if they REALLY cared, they’d shut down the company and, not only not make anything, but turn all their building spaces to parks. Until they do that, they should just keep quiet about the environmental thing.

 

[ericwn]

No direct benefit, but setting a precedent, and boundaries are good things.
you should not sell a defective product ( without charger) or you must always bundle the charger with the product and make it an opt out ( with price reduction).
what Apple is doing is the equivalence of selling medication pills without their bottles and tell people to just bring their own containers. Or better yet selling cds without covers.

My car didn’t come with a free charging station though.

 

[ericwn]

They're forcing people to use any old chargers that they have lying around. Do they not wear out and break? Surely a brand new device should be charged by a brand new charger.

The age of the charger is pretty irrelevant I think. Cables get some wear at times.

 

[ericwn]

If Apple makes a decision that is a net benefit to the environment, why would I care why they are doing it? If people are not willing to make sacrifices to save the environment, then the environment will not be saved. Reading the responses in this thread though makes me very pessimistic. I am starting to think most everyone would only put up with environmental friendly measures as long as someone else is paying for them. I used to think people would "avoid things like the plague" too, but now I know not to trust people's better nature.



Who cares why Apple is doing it, as long as it is a net benefit? If you had to choose between having an environmental benefit that makes Apple money or not having it, are you honestly saying you would prefer to screw over the environment just to hurt Apple? That is deranged. Let me repeat myself: I don't care why Apple made this move. It is not defending Apple to say that I want the net benefit that this move made possible regardless of who profited from it.



Paying the tax often? Do your chargers wear out? What are you doing with these chargers? I have things within arm's reach of me that will charge a brand new iPhone that are at least 20 years old and fully functional, and that is not an exaggeration.



We shouldn't be using so much single use plastic. They should encourage people to bring their own reusable spoons with them and then take them home to clean. This is not a joke.



Of course it is the definition of entitlement. It was previously included, and therefore you feel entitled to get it that way forever regardless of the environmental consequences.



Of course they should do this. Why would they do it any other way? There is never a perfect time to start doing the right thing, so they should just start doing it and take the heat from the inevitable whiners and complainers.



So many people have made this comment, it is honestly bewildering to me how it can be this common of an idea. They just announced the new iPhone 14 today at a price of $999. If Tim had come out and said, "We were going to charge $1019 for the phone, but because we took the charger out of the box, we are only going to charge you $999, and would all of these inane, emotionally charged, illogical comments have evaporated? Should I really lower my esteem of everyone's collective critical thinking skills to think that THIS of all things is what people were objecting to?



We do buy music with no physical packaging anymore. We do sell products without their bottles anymore. You go to the store and refill your existing containers. We need to collectively stop buying single use plastic packaging and any solution that can help us along there is very much welcome.

All round excellent post! Agree completely!

 

[ericwn]

Yeah and old chargers become dangerous with time....
Plus old chargers charge at a slower rate. Rather than being environmentally correct Apple are just wanting to sell more chargers

Not my experience.

 

[ericwn]

Shame that if it's your first phone you then have to go out and buy a charger for it. Or if you pass your old phone onto a friend or relative they then have to then buy a charger before they can use it because you had to keep the charger for your new phone. Also, sooner or later your years old charger is going to break so you'll have to buy a new one. I'm sorry but it just sucks that these don't come in the box.

Yup in the isolated and randomly unrealistic scenario where you have exactly one charger with a plug that matches any of the iPhone cables, but then, storm in a water glass, chargers are then unified and available anywhere, and often times better spec than the Apple ones.

 

[ericwn]

BUT WE SHOULDN'T HAVE TO...hence this thread.

Guess this can be fixed with a move to Brazil.

 

[ericwn]

Internal components age, the chargers get very hot, you plug them into the mains...

Would you rather use a new charger or one that's 3-5 years old? I would rather have a new one every time I get a new phone but hey, I'm not going to go on and on about it. I've voiced my viewpoint. Some are fine with the big manufacturers profiteering from green policies and some aren't.

There’s a good amount of FUD in here.

 

[ericwn]

The environment isn't being helped, but Apple's profit margins sure are

Nobody is forced to buy from Apple.

 

[ericwn]

Have you got access to an independent study that Apple have saved the planet ?

Where was that claim stated?

 

[sunking101]

Nobody is forced to buy from Apple.

Weak argument.

 

[oMean]

^^^ This is the post of the entire thread

I'll take Apple seriously on environmental issues when they start designing with upgradeability and repairability in mind.

Literally no one is forcing anyone. Apple is fine with 3 year or longer cycle.

 

[webkit]

Yeah but Apple’s main purpose for doing that is to cut costs. Helping the environment is just a nice side effect that they disguised as their main purpose to keep the hardcore fans happy.

I'll go back to a question I had asked here on Wednesday... Let's say Apple actually does care about the environment and wants to reduce waste, what would you propose they do regarding chargers that wouldn't come off as mainly being to reduce costs?

Offering a charger as an option for free wouldn't necessarily be a solution as many or most consumers would still likely choose to get in anyway and therefore still create unnecessary "waste."

Reduce the price? We can't say for sure Apple didn't already do that. Maybe the U.S. iPhone 14 prices instead of being $829, $929 and $1,129 would've been $849, $949 and $1,149 had a charger been included. Of course, even if they did announce that iPhones were priced $20 lower due to not having a charger, some still wouldn't believe them.

So, what's a company like Apple to realistically do??