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1) Obviously; and you'll see what is happening right now with the 3GS and the 4. People buy the 4 and the people who can't afford or don't want it get the 3GS. Am I missing the point?

You'd need to go back to the beginning of the argument where someone said that nobody would buy the higher end iPhone 4S over an iPhone 4.

2) WHat I'm saying is, what is the reasoning behind you stating that? We don't know whether it exists or not, so... *stops*

I guess I"m asking, what's the point of stating the obvious? Unless the obvious was the point you were trying to make, in which I retract this 2nd part.

Yeah, I was trying to state the obvious to the guy I originally quoted. Saying it doesn't exist because we don't know it exists is stupid.
 
You'd need to go back to the beginning of the argument where someone said that nobody would buy the higher end iPhone 4S over an iPhone 4.



Yeah, I was trying to state the obvious to the guy I originally quoted. Saying it doesn't exist because we don't know it exists is stupid.

1) Thanks for the clarification

2) Thanks for the clarification and explaining the rationale instead of blowing this up for no reason.


But anyway; here's hoping that they have enough of the phones in the store so I don't have to wait weeks or months to get mine. Maybe a registration online that gives you a number so you can be called when your phone arrives?

Sort of like how they had the iPhone 4.
 
You spec boys are way off base here. This could be the most important event in years. Voice control and response is going to be the killer feature of Assistant. It will no longer be the lame speech recognition we have been used to. This is going to be the next level, you know like in how it is supposed to work in the SciFi movies. The newer A5 will be needed for that so the 4s's will have it and sell like hotcakes and the coolness factor will be off the chart. You just tell it what to do and it can answer or screen your calls for you!. All the hardware geeks are bemoaning the specs and are again missing the how great it will just work aspect. It's like when you were saying the iPad was a total fail because it didn't have enough ports. It's the software this time that has the WOW.
Remember the invite!! Most seem to have missed the hint -- Let's TALK iPhone!
It's not just me that sees this..
http://www.cultofmac.com/116677/why-...mportant-ever/

you've proven my point... the competition has had this for 2 years. If you're playing catch up you also have to blow it out of the water, not just provide a "different" version of something that already exist. The Assistant feature is nothing groundbreaking IMO.

Also how would you expect this Assistant feature to work as you described without really good hardware specs?
 
you've proven my point... the competition has had this for 2 years. If you're playing catch up you also have to blow it out of the water, not just provide a "different" version of something that already exist. The Assistant feature is nothing groundbreaking IMO.

Also how would you expect this Assistant feature to work as you described without really good hardware specs?

Don't you just love the posts that say "everything" without actually saying "anything" at all?

But in relation to the Assistance, it would have to be sent server side to be processed and back again, similar to how Android and voice commands work (which are amazing, BTW).

The plus is that it can be quickly brought up and used accurately, the downside is that it's dependent on your connection. Using it when you have spotty signals results in error or long wait times, but using it with strong signals or on wifi is almost instantaneous.
 
But in relation to the Assistance, it would have to be sent server side to be processed and back again, similar to how Android and voice commands work (which are amazing, BTW).

The plus is that it can be quickly brought up and used accurately, the downside is that it's dependent on your connection. Using it when you have spotty signals results in error or long wait times, but using it with strong signals or on wifi is almost instantaneous.

right, as you just stated that's already been done before. Again nothing groundbreaking.

As far as being a "Spec Guy" I only stated the obviously expected hardware specs. My main gripe will be if the screen size remains the same. there is absolutely no reason for the iPhone to keep a 3.5" screen size, Retina gimmick or not.

TBH the whole Retina Display was just a gimmick to justify keeping a small screen while the other phones were going bigger.
I love my iPhone and I'm not a huge fan of Android but it was nice playing with screen on the Galaxy S2, especially while browsing the web.
And BTW the screen was just as clear and vibrant as my iPhone 4.
 
But in relation to the Assistance, it would have to be sent server side to be processed and back again, similar to how Android and voice commands work (which are amazing, BTW).

It's been said that the reason for requiring it on the higher-spec'd phones (A5 and 1GB ram) is that the commands will be processed locally, not uploaded to a server to be processed.

----------

you've proven my point... the competition has had this for 2 years. If you're playing catch up you also have to blow it out of the water, not just provide a "different" version of something that already exist. The Assistant feature is nothing groundbreaking IMO.

How can you say this when you haven't tried it?
 
right, as you just stated that's already been done before. Again nothing groundbreaking.

As far as being a "Spec Guy" I only stated the obviously expected hardware specs. My main gripe will be if the screen size remains the same. there is absolutely no reason for the iPhone to keep a 3.5" screen size, Retina gimmick or not.

TBH the whole Retina Display was just a gimmick to justify keeping a small screen while the other phones were going bigger.
I love my iPhone and I'm not a huge fan of Android but it was nice playing with screen on the Galaxy S2, especially while browsing the web.
And BTW the screen was just as clear and vibrant as my iPhone 4.

That's exactly how I feel in relation to the screen. I constantly think about it. My options are

A) Get the iPhone 5 the second it comes out because, if I don't , I'll have to wait for a month or so.

B) Wait and see what Ice Cream Sandwich looks like

C) Buy something now and wait until CTIA(?) next year (when the Atrix was announced) to look at new Android phones then.

I'm tired of Android; I've used it for a year and some change now. Rooted, ROM, custom kernels, overclocking, everything. It's an awesome platform but I want to try something else.

I went from a 4 inch (Captivate) to a 4 inch qHD (Atrix) to a 3.7/8 Nexus 1, and I found the Nexus 1 screen too small to do any video, gaming, or actual picture viewing. I hope to GOD that the next iPhone is a 4.

Having an extremely high resolution is great, but only because you can fit MORE stuff on the screen; hence the HD display upgrade for the 15 inch MBPs that's so popular. If you just make it dense but don't "do" anything with it, then what's the point?
 
That's exactly how I feel in relation to the screen. I constantly think about it. My options are

A) Get the iPhone 5 the second it comes out because, if I don't , I'll have to wait for a month or so.

B) Wait and see what Ice Cream Sandwich looks like

C) Buy something now and wait until CTIA(?) next year (when the Atrix was announced) to look at new Android phones then.

I'm tired of Android; I've used it for a year and some change now. Rooted, ROM, custom kernels, overclocking, everything. It's an awesome platform but I want to try something else.

I went from a 4 inch (Captivate) to a 4 inch qHD (Atrix) to a 3.7/8 Nexus 1, and I found the Nexus 1 screen too small to do any video, gaming, or actual picture viewing. I hope to GOD that the next iPhone is a 4.

Having an extremely high resolution is great, but only because you can fit MORE stuff on the screen; hence the HD display upgrade for the 15 inch MBPs that's so popular. If you just make it dense but don't "do" anything with it, then what's the point?

Honestly I'm in the same boat. If I'm disappointed by the next iPhone i will seriously consider the Galaxy S2 but that will be a no-go is Ice Cream Sandwich is nothing special either.

We really need more choices in the mobile market. LOL
 
Honestly I'm in the same boat. If I'm disappointed by the next iPhone i will seriously consider the Galaxy S2 but that will be a no-go is Ice Cream Sandwich is nothing special either.

We really need more choices in the mobile market. LOL

Exactly. The applications for Android are... you could say, "rougher" in comparison to applications for iOS, due to it being an open vs. closed ecosystem.

As a result, you get more "freedom" and versatility for your application choice, and they're generally cheaper, but you don't get that sense of polish or sheen, and that gets older after a while.

Plus, I get bored easily.

I would go for Windows 7 now that they have Mango but I really haven't seen much of it yet; it's smooth and all, but aside form the calendar, text, and task/appointment live updates, I wouldn't have much need for the "live tiles". Facebook isn't "that" important to me and I don't use Twitter.

And that's why I really care about this next iPhone. Plus, I have some money from my college that's burning a hole in my pocket; it's going to be a good end of the year :)
 
Yeah what does android as a whole have to do anything? That doesn't make any sense. Who cares about that... We are talking about people buying individual phones, why would we compare two phones against two hundred? That seems silly.

If one of these Android phones were that great lots of people would buy it wouldn't they? Or do android buyers only go for the best 2 for 1 deal when they sign up for their contract and they don't care about specs or quality at all?
Actually in the first quarter Samsung sold more phones in Japan than Apple sold iPhones. That's an important statistic as Japan has been a huge market for iPhone in the past. With each release both HTC and Samsung inch closer to the iPhone. And yes, Android as a whole does have everything to do with it because it's iOS vs Android. It isn't just the hardware. And yes you can argue that a lot of the Android handsets are cheap and that's true but that's also why Apple wants to release a less expensive iPhone so they can grab some of that market. But the fact that the higher end Android market is getting better and better is undeniable.

In the past Apple had the luxury of releasing a single phone because the market wasn't so diverse. Today they have to diversify too in order to keep pace or even try to surpass Android (Which is a tall order). But to do it they now need to have 2 types of phones, high end $200-$300 and low end $0-$99. Can they still sell a "new" iPhone 4S as the high end device without changing the design? Yes they can. But can they sell 30 million as forecast by Apple? I don't think so. Is it possible that Assistant is going to be such a killer must have feature? Possibly but I'm not sure if it would be the mainstream consumer that will embrace it.

If by Tuesday afternoon all we have to look forward to is an upgraded iPhone 4S and Assistant as the big reveal I think it will be a very interesting last quarter and 1st quarter of next year.
 
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_4 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8K2 Safari/6533.18.5)

Young Spade said:
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_4 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8K2 Safari/6533.18.5)



Then why do the top two selling smart phones have 3.5" screens.

I only want a bigger screen if it has the same or less weight, the same or lower battery usage, the same or smaller dimensions, the same or better resolution.

None of the larger android screens accomplish that and most accomplish none of them. So if we really care that little about the device we use and just want a bigger screen why not a 5.75" screen that would be awesome day what...

Because they are iPhones. That's like saying, why are (insert specifications for tires on economy cars) tires the top selling tires? Obviously because that's what comes on the top selling car.

See the problem there?

Yes, but the argument is, what happens when 2 Apple products go up against each other. Specs make a difference at that point.

I'm not arguing it's existence. I'm arguing Unowen's reasoning...which is false. Our lack of knowledge does not make something which exists....suddenly not exist.

(If it doesn't exist....while being correct, his reasoning is still false).

1) Obviously; and you'll see what is happening right now with the 3GS and the 4. People buy the 4 and the people who can't afford or don't want it get the 3GS. Am I missing the point?

2) WHat I'm saying is, what is the reasoning behind you stating that? We don't know whether it exists or not, so... *stops*

I guess I"m asking, what's the point of stating the obvious? Unless the obvious was the point you were trying to make, in which I retract this 2nd part.

----------

Yeah what does android as a whole have to do anything? That doesn't make any sense. Who cares about that... We are talking about people buying individual phones, why would we compare two phones against two hundred? That seems silly.

If one of these Android phones were that great lots of people would buy it wouldn't they? Or do android buyers only go for the best 2 for 1 deal when they sign up for their contract and they don't care about specs or quality at all?

Quality doesn't directly correlate with sales. I'm assuming you're somewhat young, otherwise you'd know this.

Sadly, the world just doesn't work that way, but this applies with pretty much everything; it sucks, and when you get older you'll realize how messed up it is.

Off the top of my head, the saying "it's not what you know, it's who you know" is like nails on a chalkboard. College students can recognize it when they see it: kids that get in because their parents are alumni or have a thick wallet; people getting jobs because they have "connections" when they aren't qualified. Just to give an example.

But to stick with phones; the stores and companies "push" phones to customers when they walk in. If they want to sell Galaxy S 2s (which they will, all of the carriers), they'll put up posters and tell the reps to PUSH THAT PHONE HARD. Seriously; you couldn't walk into an ATT store within a month of the Atrix's release without being hustled into checking the thing out.

I still walk into my ATT and hear "welcome to ATT, home of the iPhone". There's a reason they do that. They're being told to.

Lol.
 
Quality doesn't directly correlate with sales. I'm assuming you're somewhat young, otherwise you'd know this.

Sadly, the world just doesn't work that way, but this applies with pretty much everything; it sucks, and when you get older you'll realize how messed up it is.

Off the top of my head, the saying "it's not what you know, it's who you know" is like nails on a chalkboard. College students can recognize it when they see it: kids that get in because their parents are alumni or have a thick wallet; people getting jobs because they have "connections" when they aren't qualified. Just to give an example.

But to stick with phones; the stores and companies "push" phones to customers when they walk in. If they want to sell Galaxy S 2s (which they will, all of the carriers), they'll put up posters and tell the reps to PUSH THAT PHONE HARD. Seriously; you couldn't walk into an ATT store within a month of the Atrix's release without being hustled into checking the thing out.

I still walk into my ATT and hear "welcome to ATT, home of the iPhone". There's a reason they do that. They're being told to.

absolutely spot on! couldn't of said it better myself!
 
Hmm... I think Apple "leaked" this on purpose. Shoot down expectations of a new phone, then come out of nowhere at the keynote with a radical new iPhone 5.

And the 4s is the cheap iPhone.

This.

And also, I think this year, they went out of there way to conceal every possible parcel of information about iPhone 5. Other than the 8MP cam, we know nothing. Not a clue. Nothing found even when looking at supply chains.

Can't wait to be astonished next Tuesday!
 
Actually in the first quarter Samsung sold more phones in Japan than Apple sold iPhones. That's an important statistic as Japan has been a huge market for iPhone in the past. With each release both HTC and Samsung inch closer to the iPhone. And yes, Android as a whole does have everything to do with it because it's iOS vs Android. It isn't just the hardware. And yes you can argue that a lot of the Android handsets are cheap and that's true but that's also why Apple wants to release a less expensive iPhone so they can grab some of that market. But the fact that the higher end Android market is getting better and better is undeniable.

In the past Apple had the luxury of releasing a single phone because the market wasn't so diverse. Today they have to diversify too in order to keep pace or even try to surpass Android (Which is a tall order). But to do it they now need to have 2 types of phones, high end $200-$300 and low end $0-$99. Can they still sell a "new" iPhone 4S as the high end device without changing the design? Yes they can. But can they sell 30 million as forecast by Apple? I don't think so. Is it possible that Assistant is going to be such a killer must have feature? Possibly but I'm not sure if it would be the mainstream consumer that will embrace it.

If by Tuesday afternoon all we have to look forward to is an upgraded iPhone 4S and Assistant as the big reveal I think it will be a very interesting last quarter and 1st quarter of next year.

more to your point: the iphone is riding on publicity and perception. and because of that apple refuses to update it properly. their blinded by their success just like a lot of these people are blinded by fanboyism
 
This.

And also, I think this year, they went out of there way to conceal every possible parcel of information about iPhone 5. Other than the 8MP cam, we know nothing. Not a clue. Nothing found even when looking at supply chains.

Can't wait to be DISAPPOINTED next Tuesday!

You mean disappointed...fixed for ya.
 
This.

And also, I think this year, they went out of there way to conceal every possible parcel of information about iPhone 5. Other than the 8MP cam, we know nothing. Not a clue. Nothing found even when looking at supply chains.

Can't wait to be astonished next Tuesday!

We know something's thin right? Due to the leaked cases? But anyway, I only have 2 classes on Tuesday, so I'm definitely staying on top of multiple liveblogs.
 
And yet to that guy's point.....when they Made their Mac line less diverse...it got more popular. Hmmmm

Psychologically, the more choices we are offered, the higher chance we will pick the wrong one. Apple takes this into account with their product line.

Less confusion, less questioning; here are your choices, pick from them.

AND they keep them simple, they keep them the same. People feel BAD when the new iteration of what they already have comes out. That says a lot. A hell of a lot. When you feel compelled to check ebay and work a budget in your head of how to fund for the next thing of what you HAVE NOW, you know Apple is doing something right.

The name is always the same. The objects look the same, but yet, they have something about them that just makes them desirable, going from a 2010 MBA to a 2011, people went crazy over the updates, even though 90 percent of them didn't even need them.
 
Psychologically, the more choices we are offered, the higher chance we will pick the wrong one. Apple takes this into account with their product line.

Less confusion, less questioning; here are your choices, pick from them.

AND they keep them simple, they keep them the same. People feel BAD when the new iteration of what they already have comes out. That says a lot. A hell of a lot. When you feel compelled to check ebay and work a budget in your head of how to fund for the next thing of what you HAVE NOW, you know Apple is doing something right.

The name is always the same. The objects look the same, but yet, they have something about them that just makes them desirable, going from a 2010 MBA to a 2011, people went crazy over the updates, even though 90 percent of them didn't even need them.

This guy said everything I wanted to say but was to lazy to type. Apple simplifies everything.
 
And yet to that guy's point.....when they Made their Mac line less diverse...it got more popular. Hmmmm
You obviously missed my point. I didn't say they need to have 5 different phones. I said they want to and probably need to capture the lower end of the market. The $0 to $99 price range on contract. So all I am saying is they need 2 phones. One for high end customers and one for the low end. There's still only one choice but for two different market segments.

I really don't understand how you guys can't see that the iPhone needs a boost. If they can do it with minor hardware upgrades and new iOS features, all the power to them. I just don't think that will do it.

Look, I like the iPhone and I like Apple as a company. I own almost every product except the Apple TV and the iPhone (Only because until now Sprint hasn't had it) and I will almost surely buy the iPhone when it comes to Sprint regardless of whether it's a redesign iPhone 5 or a 4S. Unless Apple releases the 4S now and projects an early 2012 for the 5. Then I'll have to think about it.

But back to the discussion. As much as I like the phone and Apple I'm not blind. I see all the new phones being released by Samsung and HTC and I have to admit they are very compelling. They have beautiful screens, they are thin and light and the batteries are getting better and better (Not rooted). Even my EVO4G (Rooted) is decent in terms of battery life. I guess we have just over 36 hours to find out if I'm right or wrong.
 
You obviously missed my point. I didn't say they need to have 5 different phones. I said they want to and probably need to capture the lower end of the market. The $0 to $99 price range on contract. So all I am saying is they need 2 phones. One for high end customers and one for the low end. There's still only one choice but for two different market segments.

I really don't understand how you guys can't see that the iPhone needs a boost. If they can do it with minor hardware upgrades and new iOS features, all the power to them. I just don't think that will do it.

Look, I like the iPhone and I like Apple as a company. I own almost every product except the Apple TV and the iPhone (Only because until now Sprint hasn't had it) and I will almost surely buy the iPhone when it comes to Sprint regardless of whether it's a redesign iPhone 5 or a 4S. Unless Apple releases the 4S now and projects an early 2012 for the 5. Then I'll have to think about it.

But back to the discussion. As much as I like the phone and Apple I'm not blind. I see all the new phones being released by Samsung and HTC and I have to admit they are very compelling. They have beautiful screens, they are thin and light and the batteries are getting better and better (Not rooted). Even my EVO4G (Rooted) is decent in terms of battery life. I guess we have just over 36 hours to find out if I'm right or wrong.

jesus christ! did you steal my brain?! cause i agree with every single word you just said. even the part about sprint. lol
 
You obviously missed my point. I didn't say they need to have 5 different phones. I said they want to and probably need to capture the lower end of the market. The $0 to $99 price range on contract. So all I am saying is they need 2 phones. One for high end customers and one for the low end. There's still only one choice but for two different market segments.

I really don't understand how you guys can't see that the iPhone needs a boost. If they can do it with minor hardware upgrades and new iOS features, all the power to them. I just don't think that will do it.

Look, I like the iPhone and I like Apple as a company. I own almost every product except the Apple TV and the iPhone (Only because until now Sprint hasn't had it) and I will almost surely buy the iPhone when it comes to Sprint regardless of whether it's a redesign iPhone 5 or a 4S. Unless Apple releases the 4S now and projects an early 2012 for the 5. Then I'll have to think about it.

But back to the discussion. As much as I like the phone and Apple I'm not blind. I see all the new phones being released by Samsung and HTC and I have to admit they are very compelling. They have beautiful screens, they are thin and light and the batteries are getting better and better (Not rooted). Even my EVO4G (Rooted) is decent in terms of battery life. I guess we have just over 36 hours to find out if I'm right or wrong.

Fair enough. I just disagree with other phones being compelling. I honestly didn't care what phone I had or about phones in general before the iPhone. If iPhone died Tuesday and Apple shut down, I would go back to moto razor if they had it. Android does not appeal at all to me. I don't want to have to be a "system integrator" as Jobs said.

But the masses I'm sure love Android.
 
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