Apple Patent Application for Combination Fingerprint Scanner and NFC Circuitry Surfaces

[chrmjenkins]

I use a phone for work with wireless charging. It's nifty, but not really life changing. Besides, I prefer to dock my phones on my nightstand next to my bed.

IIRC Cook and Schiller were asked about wireless charging and pointed out the need for a pad for such charging, that would often exceed the size and price of a normal cable and adapter. So, it may be easier to put it on charge in a setup environment, but the burden of charging accessories increases, if anything. It's also a pain in the ass to make a device with a metal enclose, antennas, and try to fit a large inductive coil in there for charging and not interfere with all of that. Same issues exists for NFC. Those are the more likely reasons with the accessories route being an explanation of convenience.

 

[peterdevries]

NFC combined with the fingerprint scanner would be a huge development. But I'm going to guess NFC is still not in the 5S, Apple is just getting the fingerprint scanning down before they integrate it in the next model (iPhone 6). At this point, NFC use really won't be mainstream until Apple adopts it, Apple knows this so they are taking their time with it. They can't wait too long though.

NFC is only used in small pilots outside the USA and indeed will not get any traction without a focused and reliable hardware party behind it. A few android phones that will not make a dent in the global scale of things will not drive that adoption. Apple could indeed do it, but I wouldn't hold my breath. Dedicated apps for payment are very successful and do not require costly hardware.

 

[chrmjenkins]

NFC is only used in small pilots outside the USA and indeed will not get any traction without a focused and reliable hardware party behind it. A few android phones that will not make a dent in the global scale of things will not drive that adoption. Apple could indeed do it, but I wouldn't hold my breath. Dedicated apps for payment are very successful and do not require costly hardware.

NFC is not only a consumer focused party trick. It has a lot of industrial and commercial applications for inventory tracking, badge readers and the like. It's possible the commercial side may be slower in adopting it or wait until it matures more from outside use, but it's here to stay.

 

[duddy]

NFC is only used in small pilots outside the USA and indeed will not get any traction without a focused and reliable hardware party behind it. A few android phones that will not make a dent in the global scale of things will not drive that adoption. Apple could indeed do it, but I wouldn't hold my breath. Dedicated apps for payment are very successful and do not require costly hardware.

Also, thinking back to WWDC, I remember Cook saying no more tapping phones to share content.

 

[1Life]

If the new iPhone incorporates a fingerprint sensor with NFC I will grit my teeth and upgrade. Those features are worth the money of the upgrade if implemented properly.

 

[BookerDW]

Really. People still are not able to use the proper word even after getting an education.

Who cares, we got the point. Since when are you the 2nd grade teacher slapping people on the wrist like a self-entitled know-it-all. Not everyone got the same education as yours truly.

 

[I.Love.Apple]

It's a dead end

Where is Apple going with this? Combining fingerprint scanner and NFC in a button is the wrong approach. One would think that a company claiming to do everything perfect would understand this. Large button on a small device is a problem. It wastes a real estate that should be used by a screen. If someone wants a fingerprint scanner the scanner should be placed on the back side of the phone (or, if possible - under the screen). The scanner is used infrequently and thus should not occupy the prime real estate. The same logic (to even greater extent) applies to NFC antenna. Put them on the back side, make button smaller (also consider using software buttons like Google does), increase display size (without increasing phone size) Sure, this might require getting rid of aluminum case which creates problems for NFC (and antennas in general) and wireless charging but since when choosing function over form was a bad thing?

 

[bretm]

I never owned an Atrix, but I know why it failed to take off. For one, Android never officially supported biometrics when the phone launched. Motorola built their own APIs for it, and this limited it to just unlocking your device and nothing else.

It was also physically designed poorly. The cover would peel off if you used it consistently.

3 years later its still a pain to get the cover off. And you have to a lot to keep replacing he internal battery. My iPhone 4, bought at the same time and used relentlessly still holds its charge all day.

The atrix btw, is a horrible pos, and always was even though its specs were much better than my 4. The wife and I are ready for a 5C or 5S for sure.

 

[1Life]

Where is Apple going with this? Combining fingerprint scanner and NFC in a button is the wrong approach.

I'm not sure what your reasoning is but it is totally logical to combine the two. This set-up would be the easiest method for authentication and secure payment. Most people despise having to remember passwords and PINs.

 

[I.Love.Apple]

I'm not sure what your reasoning is but it is totally logical to combine the two. This set-up would be the easiest method for authentication and secure payment. Most people despise having to remember passwords and PINs.

My reasoning is simple - Apple is trying to solve the wrong problem. They need to think how to get rid of this ridiculous button and not how to put more features into it. Combining the two features does not require them (the scanner and NFC antenna) to be physically located in the same place. The only reason Apple is thinking about this is because of the aluminum case which prevents Apple from placing NFC antenna anywhere else.

Also, the problem of remembering many passwords and PINs was solved many years ago (google RoboForm and similar tools). Fingerprint scanner will not add anything to this solution (unless you are expecting that all web sites will want to store your fingerprints - and I suspect that you would not really want this anyways).

 

[macnisse]

Counting down for tuesday :-D

 

[unobtainium]

Is this new? I mean my wife's atrix did this 3 years ago.

Yeah, but nobody cared because it was the Atrix.

If Apple starts including fingerprint scanners in all its devices, and releases APIs so that users can log into apps using their biometric information, you're going to see widespread adoption of it. And that's something the Atrix could never have accomplished.

 

[benji888]

Also, thinking back to WWDC, I remember Cook saying no more tapping phones to share content.

That was referring to AirDrop in iOS 7 which works over Bluetooth or wifi. (iPhone 4/4S won't do AirDrop, but iPhone 5 & new iPhone (5S) will, along with newest iPads, iPod touch)

 

[unobtainium]

Where is Apple going with this? Combining fingerprint scanner and NFC in a button is the wrong approach. One would think that a company claiming to do everything perfect would understand this. Large button on a small device is a problem. It wastes a real estate that should be used by a screen. If someone wants a fingerprint scanner the scanner should be placed on the back side of the phone (or, if possible - under the screen). The scanner is used infrequently and thus should not occupy the prime real estate. The same logic (to even greater extent) applies to NFC antenna. Put them on the back side, make button smaller (also consider using software buttons like Google does), increase display size (without increasing phone size) Sure, this might require getting rid of aluminum case which creates problems for NFC (and antennas in general) and wireless charging but since when choosing function over form was a bad thing?

1. The fingerprint scanner wouldn't be used infrequently, it would be used continuously to unlock the device, log in to apps, and make payments. That is, if Apple is headed in the direction I think they are.
2. Many people (perhaps the vast majority of people) prefer the simplicity of a physical home button. When they're unsure how to exit an app or how to reset their phone or whatever, they have this giant, singular button there to press. It's one of the reasons the iPhone has retained its popularity with the masses - it's easy to use.
3. Shrinking the button would allow them to grow the screen vertically, but is that really what they need? They already stretched it vertically with the iPhone 5. I don't really see the point in shrinking the home button just so they can make the screen longer again.

 

[benji888]

I can't wait till the 5S is here. Never having to remember my numerous passwords anymore (simply scan my fingerprint to log in) is worth it's weight in gold

Fingerprint sensor, combined with iOS 7's iCloud Keychain ought to do it.

Is this new? I mean my wife's atrix did this 3 years ago.

Yeah, new when combined with iCloud Keychain, at least new to iPhones. ...WTH is an atrix?

 

[I.Love.Apple]

Yeah, but nobody cared because it was the Atrix.

If Apple starts including fingerprint scanners in all its devices, and releases APIs so that users can log into apps using their biometric information, you're going to see widespread adoption of it. And that's something the Atrix could never have accomplished.

What would be the purpose of such APIs? So that people could use different fingers to log into different apps? Once the device is unlocked (by fingerprint scanner or the password or face scanner etc.) this should unlock everything on the device (including all apps). There is no need for apps to get involved into additional authentication. The phone is a personal device.

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1. The fingerprint scanner wouldn't be used infrequently, it would be used continuously to unlock the device, log in to apps, and make payments. That is, if Apple is headed in the direction I think they are.
2. Many people (perhaps the vast majority of people) prefer the simplicity of a physical home button. When they're unsure how to exit an app or how to reset their phone or whatever, they have this giant, singular button there to press. It's one of the reasons the iPhone has retained its popularity with the masses - it's easy to use.
3. Shrinking the button would allow them to grow the screen vertically, but is that really what they need? They already stretched it vertically with the iPhone 5. I don't really see the point in shrinking the home button just so they can make the screen longer again.

Making payments requires authentication on the web site side which will not have access to the fingerprint scanner (not will they want to). You will still have to deal with individual site passwords. Sure banks may release special apps that work with the scanner but why? It makes no sense.

Confused people would be able to exit apps just as easily using smaller button (just like they do so on Android). Nobody gets confused by the size of the button.

Sure, to increase the screen size they would need to make the phone wider. But overall size of the device matters. With any given screen size, the phone size will be smaller without the big button.

 

[1Life]

F

My reasoning is simple - Apple is trying to solve the wrong problem. They need to think how to get rid of this ridiculous button and not how to put more features into it. Combining the two features does not require them (the scanner and NFC antenna) to be physically located in the same place. The only reason Apple is thinking about this is because of the aluminum case which prevents Apple from placing NFC antenna anywhere else.

Also, the problem of remembering many passwords and PINs was solved many years ago (google RoboForm and similar tools). Fingerprint scanner will not add anything to this solution (unless you are expecting that all web sites will want to store your fingerprints - and I suspect that you would not really want this anyways).

I'm not sure why you believe the "ridiculous" button is such a huge issue but I never hear iPhone users complain about it. Increasing the screen display doesn't require getting rid of the button. Second, I am well aware of RoboForm. My concern is not with having the features implemented per se. If they are implemented in a way that makes my life easier it is worth it to me and I'm betting a whole lot of people. I could definitely see retailers/businesses linking to the fingerprint sensor in their iPhone apps. I'm not sure what you're thinking but it is generally accepted that biometric security is the future of security.

 

[suzerain]

I can think of a couple of ways fingerprint scanners could be potentially problematic (aside from, of course, being a way the NSA can automatically get the fingerprints of anyone it doesn't have yet, which is problematic enough).

Bad possibility #1: It can be used to justify legal liability for all actions that take place on the device, since there would be incontrovertible proof that you activated the device (because no one else can).

Example: one could, for example, ask to borrow your device to look something up. They could then use your device to look up something illegal / controversial / etc., and because we all know that everything done on your device is tracked/monitored, you're now automatically put on some watch list because data mining software linked those searches with whatever behavior the government at that time deems inappropriate.

When you are hauled into the secret court (since indictments under recent legislation can be confidential), you will not be able to claim that someone snooped / cracked your password, because there is proof that it was you that activated the device prior to that, and your guilt for the infraction you didn't even know took place is assured.

Bad possibility #2: Criminals who want to steal your devices now have incentive to abduct you, hold you hostage (even if only for a few moments at gunpoint, which obviously increases your danger), because they will need to force you to disable fingerprint protection on your device. In short, it will reduce device theft, but increase the potential danger in situations where determined criminals want your devices. From the point of view of your personal safety, it's better your device is just snatched, as opposed to you having to interact for a longer period of time with the attacker, which leads to possibility of escalation of tensions.

 

[unobtainium]

What would be the purpose of such APIs? So that people could use different fingers to log into different apps? Once the device is unlocked (by fingerprint scanner or the password or face scanner etc.) this should unlock everything on the device (including all apps). There is no need for apps to get involved into additional authentication. The phone is a personal device.

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Making payments requires authentication on the web site side which will not have access to the fingerprint scanner (not will they want to). You will still have to deal with individual site passwords. Sure banks may release special apps that work with the scanner but why? It makes no sense.

I make bill payments and check my balance through my bank's app all the time. It's just more convenient than navigating to their website. It's extremely fast. If I could log in by swiping it would be even faster.

 

[cRuNcHiE]

NFC would be handy for those that want to use the new Sony qx10 and qx100 cameras to reduce the faff of having to connect wifi

 

[stellan0r]

The fingerprint sensor has me worried.

Maybe "fingerprint sensor" simply means something like:

"Dude, you got fingerprints all over me, get a ******** microfiber cloth and clean me!!"

 

[CynanX]

With the confirmation this week that the NSA work with major hardware manufacturers to purposefully put backdoors, flaws, vulnerabilities etc in anything they can to exploit, just in case they ever feel they need to, I think Apple, like all other major tech companies based in the US and its allied countries (and I would bet most countries try similar things with companies based within their borders too) are going to have an have an increasingly problematic time selling this kind of stuff as being truly secure. Because we all know that if they've hobbled it, they are 'legally' gagged from saying so too.

I've not been a fan of the idea of tying biometrics to Apple products anyway, but whatever your view it's a sad fact that whatever assurances are given over the security of such products don't really mean very much anymore, and this could have a horribly undesirable chilling effect upon innovation and progress.

On a positive note, it could increase the use of truly open source projects, as the only real way to inspire confidence in consumers in the future.

More likely being done at the request of the goevernment so they can build up their own ID database for use at crime schemes.

 

[LV426]

Swipe or Touch?

Fingerprint sensor: swipe or touch? Any bets?

All the best sci-fi visions have someone just touching a hand or a finger to something. Even though that approach might only register a partial print (due to the size of the button in comparison to the size of a finger) that would be better ergonomically. Maybe technology is more reliable now, but I had a fingerprint swipe sensor on a laptop a few years back and it was horribly unreliable. You had to swipe at just the right speed to get it to work. Awful.

 

[johnnyinternets]

At this point, NFC use really won't be mainstream until Apple adopts it

LOL oh please........2013 is over here

 

[seble]

I can think of a couple of ways fingerprint scanners could be potentially problematic (aside from, of course, being a way the NSA can automatically get the fingerprints of anyone it doesn't have yet, which is problematic enough).

Bad possibility #1: It can be used to justify legal liability for all actions that take place on the device, since there would be incontrovertible proof that you activated the device (because no one else can).

Example: one could, for example, ask to borrow your device to look something up. They could then use your device to look up something illegal / controversial / etc., and because we all know that everything done on your device is tracked/monitored, you're now automatically put on some watch list because data mining software linked those searches with whatever behavior the government at that time deems inappropriate.

When you are hauled into the secret court (since indictments under recent legislation can be confidential), you will not be able to claim that someone snooped / cracked your password, because there is proof that it was you that activated the device prior to that, and your guilt for the infraction you didn't even know took place is assured.

Bad possibility #2: Criminals who want to steal your devices now have incentive to abduct you, hold you hostage (even if only for a few moments at gunpoint, which obviously increases your danger), because they will need to force you to disable fingerprint protection on your device. In short, it will reduce device theft, but increase the potential danger in situations where determined criminals want your devices. From the point of view of your personal safety, it's better your device is just snatched, as opposed to you having to interact for a longer period of time with the attacker, which leads to possibility of escalation of tensions.

Excellent points there bro. Never even thought about the second one like that