Apple Patent Application for Combination Fingerprint Scanner and NFC Circuitry Surfaces

[hadleigh101]

https://www.macrumors.com/2013/09/03/new-photo-of-alleged-iphone-5s-home-button-flex-cable-could-point-to-fingerprint-sensor-support/

Would the latest model of the home button and flex include the NFC to the right with that square? Like it says in the patent a square next to the home button??

 

[CynanX]

Who cares, we got the point. Since when are you the 2nd grade teacher slapping people on the wrist like a self-entitled know-it-all. Not everyone got the same education as yours truly.

Try not to take it so personally, the guy is just trying to help. If I make a mistake I like it to be explained to me so I can learn from it. Just because you're out of school doesn't mean you have to stop growing.

 

[JulianL]

NFC is only used in small pilots outside the USA and indeed will not get any traction without a focused and reliable hardware party behind it. A few android phones that will not make a dent in the global scale of things will not drive that adoption. Apple could indeed do it, but I wouldn't hold my breath. Dedicated apps for payment are very successful and do not require costly hardware.

NFC has gone way beyond the small pilot phase in the UK but maybe that's an exception and not representative of the rest of the world.

I hope that Apple do include NFC in the 5S because by the time the iPhone 6 launches, assuming that's about this time next year, NFC will probably be bordering on ubiquitous in the UK. NFC is already in a lot of places now: the London public transport network for some years already, quite a few of the major retailer chains with more coming on stream every month, terminals gradually getting enabled in even the smallest corner shops, and very active TV and print advertising of the NFC capabilities of their products by banks and credit card companies.

My problem right now is that I have too many NFC devices in my wallet so that sometimes a reader gets confused as to which one to talk to. I really hope that Apple's NFC implementation is a bit like passbook where I can register multiple NFC cards into the system and set some sort of priority and/or explicit selection of what to use. That way I'd probably set my London Transport Oyster Card account as the default with the ability, when I get out my phone and activate the fingerprint sensor, to select either my credit or my debit card account for a transaction. This way I could leave all those cards at home, maybe only carrying one in a separate and possibly shielded wallet for emergencies if my phone got lost or failed in some other way (e.g. dead battery).

chrmjenkins - I agree with user-name-here. I always look forward to your contributions to a thread since those contributions usually add credible and well-considered technical insights into whatever topic is being discussed. Thank you.

 

[waloshin]

Fingerprint sensor, combined with iOS 7's iCloud Keychain ought to do it.

Yeah, new when combined with iCloud Keychain, at least new to iPhones. ...WTH is an atrix?

Motorola Atrix

Had a finger print scanner for unlocking the phone imbedded in the power button on the back. Notorious for breaking so lets hope Apple can make one that does not break.

 

[olowott]

awesome
now where is that tuesday we been waiting for to get an official statement

 

[JarJarThomas]

Fingerprint sensor: swipe or touch? Any bets?

All the best sci-fi visions have someone just touching a hand or a finger to something. Even though that approach might only register a partial print (due to the size of the button in comparison to the size of a finger) that would be better ergonomically. Maybe technology is more reliable now, but I had a fingerprint swipe sensor on a laptop a few years back and it was horribly unreliable. You had to swipe at just the right speed to get it to work. Awful.

Touch for sure. Swiping is rather clumsy to use.
If you swipe to fast, slow, in the wrong angle it fails.

 

[Ochyandkaren]

That's the thing, I can understand people shrugging their shoulders and giving up when it comes to almost any other kind of data being intercepted only by a government they might trust… (even if I disagree), but if any of our devices are broken by design and the manufacturers want to utilise biometrics, that's not information that can be reset with an email loop.

I think tying biometrics to big data and the internet is not being thought of with anywhere near enough care, and I think people should really think carefully about being an early adopter of this kind of technology. It's arguably of a different order of importance than even your passwords etc.

Indeed!

 

[butterfliesefx]

bluetooth

My guess is that this patent application was to cover the bases but that they have another patent application for the combination fingerprint scanner with bluetooth 4.0.

 

[Mac Fly (film)]

Ironically, biometrics are probably your best defense from intrusion. The government can have your password/passcode in 5 minutes just by calling Apple/Google/Verizon/AT&T/etc, but biometrics requires that they physically obtain your device in order to get into it. Furthermore, biometrics aren't used for anything that can be exploited presently. A thief can't just email your bank a copy of your thumbprint and clear out your account...no institution would ever accept anything other than you being physically present to enter your print. I often wonder if the people warning us about the perils of the fingerprint scanner actually believe what they say, or merely want the rest of us to believe it. Fact of the matter is, even if the government could figure out a way to "use" your prints it would mean that they wouldn't even need to bother as they would probably already have all the info about you that they wanted.

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LOL. Good point. Hell, if the government really wants your fingerprint and if you've ever touched a doorknob...guess what?

That's one dumb comment.

 

[Fukui]

On a positive note, it could increase the use of truly open source projects, as the only real way to inspire confidence in consumers in the future.

Feds pay for 60 percent of Tor’s development.

 

[diddl14]

This would be the best 5S feature by far. I would love to see Apple supporting payment systems like PayPass where you would just hold the 5S above the NFC reader and confirm payment by pressing the home button.

 

[SmoMo]

slip sliding away

Really. People still are not able to use the proper word even after getting an education.

I think the point is that the 'proper' word is always just the fickle consensus of the general public. If the frequency of "your" in place or "you're" is on the rise then that can only mean one thing.

Get down with the hep cats man!

[ and to anyone that feels unhappy when they see "your" being used in that way, realise that that feeling is just the echo of some old teacher you've internalised, and be free! ]

 

[diddl14]

NFC has gone way beyond the small pilot phase in the UK but maybe that's an exception and not representative of the rest of the world.

Same here in Austria. All credit/debit cards will be replaced with NFC versions by end of the year. Most shops have meanwhile upgraded their terminals.

 

[SmoMo]

Iou

This would be the best 5S feature by far. I would love to see Apple supporting payment systems like PayPass where you would just hold the 5S above the NFC reader and confirm payment by pressing the home button.

How likely would it be for Apple to move into and instantly take over the digital payment industry?

* Am I right in thinking that Apple holds more active credit card accounts than any other company? I think I read that a while back.

* I'm not exaggerating, but I don't know anyone who has a good thing to say about PayPal, myself included. I would feel no qualms about switching to an Apple endorsed payment transfer from my Apple account, and I'd switch immediately.

* The idea of a company like Apple running something like PayPal really appeals to me, because their core business is elsewhere they would not be trying to squeeze the users of the money transfer service for us much as they could get away with. Instead they could concentrate on the highest customer service in order to attract more people to the ecosystem.

* Would Apple even be allowed to enter this industry? Or is it something they'd need to seek approval for first?

 

[diddl14]

https://www.macrumors.com/2013/09/03/new-photo-of-alleged-iphone-5s-home-button-flex-cable-could-point-to-fingerprint-sensor-support/

Would the latest model of the home button and flex include the NFC to the right with that square? Like it says in the patent a square next to the home button??

That could indeed be an NFC antenna:

 

[SmoMo]

The future

It is the year 2014 and human sapiens have now mastered the control of physical reality. One node, the carbon based SmoMo is now carrying nothing in his pockets other than his iPhone5S.

One day his phone is stolen, and having no wallet anymore he has no money or identification.......is this a disaster?

Not at all, he walks to the nearest Apple store scans his finger at the Genius Bar and is promptly handed a brand new iPhone5S with all his data restored from the iCloud backup, simultaneously his old phone is deactivated and its GPS history sent to the nearest ED-209.

 

[Harrycooke]

Our national debt, global warming, and high divorce rate has me much more worried than a fingerprint scanner.

I understand national debt and global warming are troubling, but high divorce rate?

 

[diddl14]

How likely would it be for Apple to move into and instantly take over the digital payment industry?

* Am I right in thinking that Apple holds more active credit card accounts than any other company? I think I read that a while back.

* I'm not exaggerating, but I don't know anyone who has a good thing to say about PayPal, myself included. I would feel no qualms about switching to an Apple endorsed payment transfer from my Apple account, and I'd switch immediately.

* The idea of a company like Apple running something like PayPal really appeals to me, because their core business is elsewhere they would not be trying to squeeze the users of the money transfer service for us much as they could get away with. Instead they could concentrate on the highest customer service in order to attract more people to the ecosystem.

* Would Apple even be allowed to enter this industry? Or is it something they'd need to seek approval for first?

I like the though but to answer your question, it not very likely. Best indication would be the ribbon cable of the 5C not showing a possible NFC antenna. For an Apple-goes-banking move, at least the *cheap* 5C would also need to be NFC-enabled.

But besides that, Apple is a product company and far from being a bank. I hope it stays that way. I wouldn't mind however if they announce a partnership with Visa/Mastercard and support PayPass directly on the 5S.

 

[SmoMo]

NFC would be handy for those that want to use the new Sony qx10 and qx100 cameras to reduce the faff of having to connect wifi

That's an interesting idea, so are you saying that Apple could incorporate NFC into the Bonjour system?

I guess the NFC would make the first connection automatically, and then transfer additional information to setup a Bluetooth or WiFi connection?

Or is that kinda thing already completely provided by Bluetooth 4.0 ?

 

[kdarling]

What about gloves?

When the iPhone first came out, it was clear that it was designed (and tested) only by someone in a tech rich and relatively warm region of California:

• It required lots of free WiFi to be most useful without 3G.
• It was unfriendly to the hundreds of millions of people living in colder climates.

This feels like deja vu as far as the cold goes.

Those of us living in places where gloves are a necessity many months out of the year, had to resort to either removing our gloves, buying special touch-enabled gloves, using a stylus, or simply poking with our nose at the screen.

So unless a sensor marvelously resolves fingerprints through a glove, I don't see it as being super popular in colder areas. Unless, of course, it also recognizes noses

Perhaps having both Motorola's always-on voice recognition, plus fingerprint, would be better.

 

[SmoMo]

D-Pad

1. The fingerprint scanner wouldn't be used infrequently, it would be used continuously to unlock the device, log in to apps, and make payments. That is, if Apple is headed in the direction I think they are.

Yes, this is exactly how I imagine it as well. Rather than swiping right on the screen to unlock the phone you just swipe right 2cm lower across the home button.

Personally I would absolutely love the ( now convex ) home button to also be a little analog stick for games
* Actually play a game without your hand covering the screen
* Feel where the home button is so your thumb doesn't keep slipping off
* Fire buttons can still be on the other side of the screen, and they will work quite well as your finger doesn't need to stay centred like it does with a control stick
* For iPhone5 users who want the same fingerprint joystick control, a little device plugs into the lightning connector and covers the old home button with a new replacement

Nice to dream

 

[dtich]

maybe that silver/steel ring around the home button/fingerprint sensor is also the nfc antenna...

 

[Abobrek]

I think the MOST interesting fact about this patent is that, "the fingerprint reader home button" can also be an LED light source. Now, IF those leaked photos of the 5S box, that show the home button with a silver ring around it are legit. AND IF, this is the patent that Apple is using for the 5S home button, I think those, "colorful bubbles/circles" found on the iPhone event invite are actually the home button when powered on. The, "silver ring" around the home button isn't the LED notification the ENTIRE home button is, I.E. the colored circles/bubbles represented in the invite.

 

[absurdamerica]

With the confirmation this week that the NSA work with major hardware manufacturers to purposefully put backdoors, flaws, vulnerabilities etc in anything they can to exploit, just in case they ever feel they need to, I think Apple, like all other major tech companies based in the US and its allied countries (and I would bet most countries try similar things with companies based within their borders too) are going to have an have an increasingly problematic time selling this kind of stuff as being truly secure. Because we all know that if they've hobbled it, they are 'legally' gagged from saying so too.

All of this has been true for some time on pretty much every device or system you use. I also think you deeply overestimate the amount of concern about that type of thing to your average consumer.

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Ironically, biometrics are probably your best defense from intrusion. The government can have your password/passcode in 5 minutes just by calling Apple/Google/Verizon/AT&T/etc, but biometrics requires that they physically obtain your device in order to get into it. Furthermore, biometrics aren't used for anything that can be exploited presently. A thief can't just email your bank a copy of your thumbprint and clear out your account...no institution would ever accept anything other than you being physically present to enter your print. I often wonder if the people warning us about the perils of the fingerprint scanner actually believe what they say, or merely want the rest of us to believe it. Fact of the matter is, even if the government could figure out a way to "use" your prints it would mean that they wouldn't even need to bother as they would probably already have all the info about you that they wanted.

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LOL. Good point. Hell, if the government really wants your fingerprint and if you've ever touched a doorknob...guess what?

Wow. Except the government doesn't need access to your device when they have access to all the data stored in the cloud directly going to Apple and bypassing any need to see the actual device in the first place.

 

[ChrisTX]

It doesn't matter unless Apple does it.

Amirite guys?

You would be correct. That's usually how it works!

Really? We're still doing this?

Are you referring to the bad grammar itself, or the correction of said bad grammar? I can't believe believe people are still having a hard time knowing the difference between your, and you're either!