Apple Patent Application for Combination Fingerprint Scanner and NFC Circuitry Surfaces

[borgqueenx]

It would be nice if the ring would also glow when waiting for a readout, or serve as a notification light.

Image

that would be soooooo epic. but then the electronic thingy would probaly be with the leaked part, so dont hope too much for it

 

[kdarling]

The article states that the patent was originally filled in March 2012. It's only now being made public. Companies can specify that their patent applications are kept secret for a period of time so they can quietly build the idea into their products. This is common practice for Apple.

I believe you're thinking of FCC approval.

Patents are automatically published 18 months after application.

So if it was filed in 2012/03, then it would be published in 2013/09, which is what happened.

 

[Todd B.]

With the confirmation this week that the NSA work with major hardware manufacturers to purposefully put backdoors, flaws, vulnerabilities etc in anything they can to exploit, just in case they ever feel they need to, I think Apple, like all other major tech companies based in the US and its allied countries (and I would bet most countries try similar things with companies based within their borders too) are going to have an have an increasingly problematic time selling this kind of stuff as being truly secure. Because we all know that if they've hobbled it, they are 'legally' gagged from saying so too.

I've not been a fan of the idea of tying biometrics to Apple products anyway, but whatever your view it's a sad fact that whatever assurances are given over the security of such products don't really mean very much anymore, and this could have a horribly undesirable chilling effect upon innovation and progress.

On a positive note, it could increase the use of truly open source projects, as the only real way to inspire confidence in consumers in the future.

The tinfoil is strong with this one.

 

[GJN]

Or does your mac also have a finger print scanner?

It will with Trackpad 2...

 

[harlemexplosion]

NFC = iWatch pairing.

This! You are on to something there.

 

[kdarling]

From my understanding of this patent, I don't think the silver ring will light up, the entire circle/home button/fingerprint scanner/LED array( inside the silver ring) will/could be a notification light/display/haptic area.

"Apple further notes that the Home button may include optical structures and transmitters. The transmitters could be infrared or visible light sources such as light-emitting diodes or lasers. Receivers may be, for example, infrared or visible light receivers such as photodiodes or phototransistors."

The patent is talking about optical fingerprint sensors.

Of course, if they used visible light, they could be used for double duty as a sensor and as a notification display.

However, an optical sensor would be different from the RF sensor that is rumored, and far less secure.

 

[xVeinx]

Even is Apple doesn't release NFC support right away, could they have the hardware necessary included so that they could release support in a future update? They might just wait til 6, or they might surprise us...

 

[Sincci]

In Hong Kong the Octopus Card contactless payment/transport NFC system is hugely successful, with over 12 million transactions per day (HKD$130 million) from everything from buying coffee, burgers, supermarket shopping and every mode of public transport in Hong Kong since 1997.

Hardly a small pilot project.

Actually pretty much every public transport system in the world that is using contactless smartcards uses or at least is somewhat compatible with NFC, Visa and Mastercard are adding NFC feature to nearly every new credit/debit card and at least in Europe all the new payment terminals are compatible with NFC (perhaps not in use currently, but the chip is there and it can be enabled with a software update), so no, it's not a small pilot project at all

... Why? NFC gives the iPhone all sorts of new possibilities, namely replacing your entire wallet. With a fingerprint scanner for authorization, it would be far more secure than your current credit card which needs just your signature (which is total BS - nobody checks it. Trust me, I worked as a cashier, and the exact words I was told was "Always approve credit cards. If it's stolen, it's the owner's problem and the bank's problem, not ours.")

This seems to be an US only issue since pretty much everywhere else they don't accept signatures anymore and require you to input your pin code instead when paying with your credit/debit card.

 

[harlemexplosion]

Even is Apple doesn't release NFC support right away, could they have the hardware necessary included so that they could release support in a future update? They might just wait til 6, or they might surprise us...

That just doesn't seem like apple's style though. They tend to provide all hardware functions right away.

 

[Casiotone]

With the confirmation this week that the NSA work with major hardware manufacturers to purposefully put backdoors, flaws, vulnerabilities etc in anything they can to exploit, just in case they ever feel they need to, I think Apple, like all other major tech companies based in the US and its allied countries (and I would bet most countries try similar things with companies based within their borders too) are going to have an have an increasingly problematic time selling this kind of stuff as being truly secure. Because we all know that if they've hobbled it, they are 'legally' gagged from saying so too.

I've not been a fan of the idea of tying biometrics to Apple products anyway, but whatever your view it's a sad fact that whatever assurances are given over the security of such products don't really mean very much anymore, and this could have a horribly undesirable chilling effect upon innovation and progress.

On a positive note, it could increase the use of truly open source projects, as the only real way to inspire confidence in consumers in the future.

My understanding is that the output of the fingerprint reader cannot be used to reconstruct the initial fingerprint, sort of like a one-way encryption mechanism.

 

[einmusiker]

this phone is going to be a joke honestly. I love apple computers and operating system and the iPad is a fun toy but APPL has become the superficial blonde model of the cell phone world. Nice to look at but no substance.

 

[GuitarDTO]

The finger in the patent picture is gross. Looks like a dude's finger with long nail. Ewww

 

[donutbagel]

NFC seems useless, but maybe it could be used to authenticate iPhones with rings? Right fingerprint + right access ring = unlocked iPhone.

 

[Mechanic]

What would be the purpose of such APIs? So that people could use different fingers to log into different apps? Once the device is unlocked (by fingerprint scanner or the password or face scanner etc.) this should unlock everything on the device (including all apps). There is no need for apps to get involved into additional authentication. The phone is a personal device.

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Making payments requires authentication on the web site side which will not have access to the fingerprint scanner (not will they want to). You will still have to deal with individual site passwords. Sure banks may release special apps that work with the scanner but why? It makes no sense.

I would argue that this is not the case. *I would love to have the ability to have my banking app require fingerprint verification.
Have you read about keychain in the cloud coming in iOS 7 and in Mavericks?
It solves your problem of logging into websites with silly passwords. It stores them for you so that when you authenticate for a website with fingerprint it puts the password in for you and does the same for apps. you need to give apple more credit than stupid android manufacturers who implement something like a fingerprint sensor poorly with no infrastructure to back it up, apple always thinks things through before they implement them. As in the case of solving the password problem you mentioned with keychain in the cloud.

When I think of it this way it makes perfect sense to me or any rational person.

 

[juanmanas]

this phone is going to be a joke honestly. I love apple computers and operating system and the iPad is a fun toy but APPL has become the superficial blonde model of the cell phone world. Nice to look at but no substance.

I'm not sure of what some people like you expect from a phone.

My iPhone 5 makes calls, amazing videos, emails, messengers, out of the box video chat (FaceTime), thousands of the most optimized apps.

What T F do you do with a mobile? (Please, let us know only the legal ones...)

I think what you expect from a mobile phone is something that you should be doing with another human being, not a machine...


BTW, it takes less time to write apple than APPL

 

[nikaru]

And nobody asked about a bigger screen?

 

[iRockApple]

Is this new? I mean my wife's atrix did this 3 years ago.

NO THIS TECHNOLOGY IS NOT NEW!!!! Nor will Apple claim it to be new. It will however be new to iOS users and I'm pretty sure it will be more efficient than the one on the Atrix. I'm not saying that strictly because Apple is implementing it, but because the technology has had time to evolve.

 

[bzz]

Lord of the rings?

 

[GuitarDTO]

^would be cool if you could change the color of that alleged "notification ring".

 

[69650]

I believe you're thinking of FCC approval.

Patents are automatically published 18 months after application.

So if it was filed in 2012/03, then it would be published in 2013/09, which is what happened.

I didn't know patents were automatically published after 18 months. You learn something new every day. However I don't think the timing is a coincidence. The patent is made public just before the iPhone 5S is announced. That would have been planned by Apple when they filed the patent back in March 2012.

 

[iRockApple]

Perhaps, at first Apple will only use the fingerprint sensor for unlocking the device.

But I foresee them quickly (if not immediately) making available the sensor to third party applications. This would tie in nicely with Keychain.

Good bye passwords!

You don't honestly believe they will quickly make that available to 3rd party applications. You want them to do that so badly that you are starting to believe it. Apple never immediately or quickly opens up integral features to third party applications.

 

[borgqueenx]

would be cool to have that ring as a led thingy but it seems its just going to be metal.

 

[iRockApple]

Our national debt, global warming, and high divorce rate has me much more worried than a fingerprint scanner.

People that keep their peanut butter in the fridge worries me, because it is hard to spread on my bread #

 

[theOtherGeoff]

I would argue that this is not the case. *I would love to have the ability to have my banking app require fingerprint verification.
Have you read about keychain in the cloud coming in iOS 7 and in Mavericks?
It solves your problem of logging into websites with silly passwords. It stores them for you so that when you authenticate for a website with fingerprint it puts the password in for you and does the same for apps. you need to give apple more credit than stupid android manufacturers who implement something like a fingerprint sensor poorly with no infrastructure to back it up, apple always thinks things through before they implement them. As in the case of solving the password problem you mentioned with keychain in the cloud.

When I think of it this way it makes perfect sense to me or any rational person.

I would love for my credit card to require fingerprint verification... as it stands I can hand my wife (different lastname) my card that has 'REQUEST ID' on the back of the card (she carries my old drivers license and a copy of our marriage license), and she's stopped maybe 1 time in... 50.

The API should be for apps to
1) allow me to connect without a fingerprint

2) check balances, recent transactions
and when I want to do something 'serious' (pay a bill, xfer money), then challenge me for my fingerprint [effectively a hash that they can send to Apple to verify that the phone and fingerprint are valid, and the bank ID when they first registered is assigned to that AppleID at ITMS].

3) The API should also make sure it's timestamped, and where possible, have apple verify my phone isn't stolen or acting strange (moving around geographically in a manner that is inconsistent with the laws of physics).

That to me is worth it, especially for a lot of small banks that don't have great fraud management to begin with. (I've set up a few... none are great unless you have eyeballs behind them, and those eyeballs are the first to be laid off, especially when DHS/DEA requires those eyeballs to be watching for money laundering... not consumer fraud.

 

[KdParker]

Our national debt, global warming, and high divorce rate has me much more worried than a fingerprint scanner.

Seems like a random list of concerns. Global warming is the only credible one.