Apple PowerBook and iBook Updates - Next Week?

[iAtom]

There will be no G5 Powebooks before WWDC!!!

...

There IS NO CHANCE OF THEM! They have to totally adjust the form factor, change the mother boards, fix heating issues, etc.

Who says they haven't been doing this for awhile now? I'm not saying G5 Powerbooks are coming, i'm just saying it's possible.

THERE IS NO WAY IN HELL Apple is going to release these without a TON of press, and Steve personally speaking at a huge show.

Well, Apple is holding a press event this Sunday at NAB. Anyone know how big of an event it is?

 

[AidenShaw]

don't replace the "MHz myth" with the "64-bit myth"

64 bit doesn't double the code or size or something, it refers to the chunks of data the chip/sys can deal with at a given time. a 64 bit native OS would make things faster in all respects, not slower.

Not at all, completely confused.

64-bits refers to the size of the addresses used to find the chunks, not the chunk sizes. 64-bits lets your program deal with more than 4 billion characters, but the normal western character is still only 8 bits - the chunk size does not change.

So, 64-bits does not make it faster - you can address more chunks, but not more in the same clock cycle.

To be more correct, in fact 64-bits will be slightly to almost noticeably slower than 32-bit. Those 64-bit addresses use twice as much space in cache, and need twice as much memory bandwidth to move between RAM and cache.

Most of the time this slowdown won't be noticed, but some programs have data with a large percentage of pointers to other data. In real programs, sometimes the 64-bit version is 10% to 25% slower than the identical source code compiled in 32-bit mode.

"Almost the same speed" is a reasonable thing to say, but "faster in all respects" amounts to nothing more than a new MHz myth - try to convince the unaware that bigger is always better.

The main advantage of 64 bit is the larger mem addressing.

Bingo - but this refers to larger memory available to each application. A Pentium 4 and a Motorola G4 system can have up to 64 GiB of RAM, but each application can only get to 4 GiB.

On a 64-bit machine, each application can use more (much more) than 4 GiB.

The obvious corollary, of course, is that if your application runs fine in 512 MiB or 1 GiB, there's no reason to move to 64-bit. 64-bit gives you more memory - but if you can't use all the memory that 32-bit gives you then 64-bit won't have any benefit.

 

[El Duderino]

the chance of there being a G5 PB right now, in my opinion, is 50 50 chance. none of you people work and an IBM chip manufacturing plant or for apple directly and if Steve is such a big "show" as everyone claims him to be i can be certain that its possible for him to for instance, tell a little white lie about the certain amount of chips that have been produced. that way he shoves it in your face and say HAHA tricked ya. or he could have been telling the truth and we'll get a 1.42 17" at the top of the line...hardly an improvement.

im simply stating that not a single one among you can say with 100% certainty that somthing will or will not happen. SO QUITE PUTTING THING IS LARGE FONT SAYING THAT THIS OR THAT IS NOT POSSIBLE OR POSSIBLE

anything is possible, so all of you skepticts get off your high horse and let the people have their thoughts and comments on a rumor forum with emphasis on rumor

-words to live by (or not) from The Dude

[EDIT] yay im not a newbie anymore

 

[()verBored]

This thread is getting humongous....if I hadn't stayed with it from the beginning, I would be lost.

Why are we getting so off topic here? People talking about Real Networks wanting to alliance with Apple, discussion over 64 bit processor stuff, talking about what are favorite car is, how all our mothers are doing today ...

Anyways, try and be nice to thread readers and start new threads for completely off topic discussions!

 

[AidenShaw]

re-read the con-call

G5s running at 2.4+ GHz are problem at the moment.

No, G5s running at 2.0 GHz are the problem at the moment.

Apple can't get enough 2.0 GHz chips to satisfy the Xserve demand. That was stated in the call - chip supply is the sole problem.

 

[()verBored]

none of you people work and an IBM chip manufacturing plant or for apple directly

How do you know who browses these forums? You think that employees for Apple never check out these places? HW/SW developers always puruse the forums to check "the pulse" of the people. It's fun, sometimes insightful, and interesting for feedback.


You statement is antithetical in that you say no one should post anything definitive, but then you say definitively that no one works for apple or IBM is reading this thread. Just a thought

 

[El Duderino]

...but then you say definitively that no one works for apple or IBM is reading this thread. Just a thought

yup

 

[tsk]

I dont know if anyone has stated this or not, but dont you think that it would be odd for apple to update BOTH the powerbooks and ibooks? Wouldnt it draw attention away from the updates? It seems like they would want to update one and then update the other a couple of weeks later when the chatter has died down a little to get people talking about apple again. It seems like instead of releasing everything at once, apple should have a periodic release schedule to keep us all out of a dry spell.

Personally, I think it's odd that people think it's odd that they could update two things at the same time. It's a freaking update. If they need to make it into an event, that's a bit odd.

 

[El Duderino]

Personally, I think it's odd that people think it's odd that they could update two things at the same time. It's a freaking update. If they need to make it into an event, that's a bit odd.

true dat yo

 

[SiliconAddict]

There will be no G5 Powebooks before WWDC!!! Maybe some of you are kidding, but then I see someone that seriously thinks this is possible...

There IS NO CHANCE OF THEM! They have to totally adjust the form factor, change the mother boards, fix heating issues, etc. Not to mention the 90nm chips are already sparse, hell they can't even ship the G5 Xserves at full load yet. PLEASE START using your logic, this is insane to think they will have a g5 powerbook.

Why? It’s been a year since the G5 was released. Jobs himself has been quoted as stating G5 PowerBooks before the end of the year. Admittedly Jobs’s comments are usually BS but it does point to a goal. In addition to that the 90nm G5’s HAVE decreased both the heat and power consumption of the G5 esp in the sub 2Ghz range.
Do I think Jobs will introduce G5 PowerBooks WWDC? Yes. I’m also willing to bet Jobs will have a working model too. But I’m betting they are going to pull a PowerMac by releasing the actual product by 4th quarter of this year.

 

[markh]

I'm about to become a switcher from XP/Linux/Solaris. With these present rumors, i guess i'd be wise to hold off to see what is annouced next week. But, even if say new PB's are annouced next week, what would be the time beforee available in OZ?

What are peoples thoughts generally on the 12" 1hgz PB? I'm tossing up between the 15" and the 12". But the 12" is so sexy n cool. Do peopel find teh screen ok or too small? My current machine is an IBM thinkpad R40 P4 1.8Ghz with 15.1" screen, so be interested in how i'd go using a G4 PB for day to day work (which is really email/web/server admin stuff)

 

[cyks]

if so- then when?

I guess we'll all be waiting anxiously the next few days... I know I'll be getting my $ in order- just in case

My only concern is not if it has a G4/G5 in it- but availability. Who's to say they won't announce some amazing new laptops at even more amazing prices- with none (or very few) to go around?

I'd really hate to see another big announcement followed by delays in getting the product out.... examples as recent as the iMini fiasco...

 

[Sped]

So can someone with experience tell me how fast a 1.25 - 1.5 G4 PB compared to iMacs and G5s really is?

Go to MacSpeedZone. That's pretty much everything.

 

[maxterpiece]

There is.

Damn, you're right (i suppose I should have looked first, eh?) - I guess that makes the emac acceptably equipped. It is still, however rather boring and awkward looking. The imac has such a great design - it really is as cool now as the original imac was when it came out. The problem is $1300 was what a consumer machine cost back then. Now it's more like $999. The imac reminds me too much of the cube. Really darn cool, but specwise it's hard to justify. Give me a system that, out of the box, will run all software acceptably. i don't care if I can't upgrade it. The ipod has proven that people will pay a premium for design but the ipod only costs like 25% more than it's less attractive competition. THe imac costs more like 50% more. SO let's see do the math -
if the imac costs $1300 and that's 50% more than a pc with equivalent power what would the price of the pc be?
150%*x=$1300
x?$870
add 25% to that $870 and this is the price that apple would, by my theory, have imacs flying off the shelf:
125%*$870=$1087.50
I think an imac for $1100 would be quite popular - the computer is really elegantly designed.
To put this in perspective of the new ibook/ powerbooks - They are equally compelling in design. They have superior battery life, superior keyboards, superior displays, are smaller and just look much cooler. The same formula should then apply. The 12" iBook for $1100 comes with a combo drive, avg. video (for a budget laptop), and a weak processor (800mhz G4). I would guestimate that one of those cheap celeron based laptops running at like 1.5ghz goes for about $700 but then you have to add another $100 to get a combo drive.
Let's see how much of a premium apple charges on the ibook-
$1100/$800=138% or a 38% premium

I think apple gets away with this because for some reason the pc industry is too freakin dumb to realize that the poor people want small laptops too - for some reason it's impossible to find a PC laptop with a display less than 14" for less than like 2 grand (sub-notebooks). Most students i know opt choose the ibook because it's the only laptop they can afford which isn't the size of a freakin atlas. Anyway, it's still a better percentage than the imac.

I'm tired of writing so I'm not gonna bother with the powerbook comparison but you get the picture here - imacs are so cool and could be pretty successful if they weren't obsurdly priced/configured. I wish apple would turn their attention towards what is still the most purchased type of system and put out something that fits the same niche in todays world that the original imac fit back from like '99-'01.

 

[Dave the Great]

There will be no G5 Powebooks before WWDC!!! Maybe some of you are kidding, but then I see someone that seriously thinks this is possible...

There IS NO CHANCE OF THEM! They have to totally adjust the form factor, change the mother boards, fix heating issues, etc. Not to mention the 90nm chips are already sparse, hell they can't even ship the G5 Xserves at full load yet. PLEASE START using your logic, this is insane to think they will have a g5 powerbook.

And let me tell you the key reason, THERE IS NO WAY IN HELL Apple is going to release these without a TON of press, and Steve personally speaking at a huge show. This would be like if they released the Powermac G5 on some random tuesday, or at some minor show.

Please start looking at things logically before getting so insanely carried away that you expect them to have a g5 powerbook next week.

While you might be right that the G5 PB is a ways off, I disagree that "there IS NO CHANCE OF THEM". I think that there is actually a good chance. I don't know if they will do the entire line with G5s, possibly a 15 and a 17 G5, then a 12 and another 15 G4@1.5. Then iBook 12 g4@1 and a 14@1.25.

They probably starting looking at the issues you stated when they first got the G5 into a PM. That was ~ a year now.

They have had samples of the 970fx now for what ~ 6 months.

And I know eMachines has come out with the AMD 64 chip in a laptop and they have even had a revision recently. If eMachines can pull it off, I am sure Apple can. So, I don't think it is that far fetched that the G5 PB is soon to come out.

Regarding the scarcity of the 970fx, I thought that issue was now fixed and they are being shipped in quantity. Apple announced last month the the single G5 xServe was being shipped and I thought Apple was now or soon to be shipping the dual G5 xServe in quantity.

As for an arena to announce a G5 PB, Apple has a perfect one next week -- NAB.

 

[mambodancer]

Re: Higher resolutions on Powerbook 17 or 15...

.

I think the screens will get better - in fact I know they will. FCP5 is going to pitch it's ability to deal with HD content. To view HD you need 1920x1080 minimum. That's the reason the 23" came along (the 22" didn't have the pixels). As a mobile platform for video (which is a key market for Apple) - they have to give the G5 PB's the ability to display HD. Not to do so would be to give the market away. They may bring the screens up before the PBG5's hit though.

That also gives people a reason to by a 17" model. If they keep the 15" below true HD resolution video editors will have to buy the 17" even if the other specs are identical.

In order to squeeze that many pixels into a 17" LCD display you would have to shrink the size of the images by 27% (35% on a 15"). Currently, Apples LCD's are approx. 100dpi monitors. Unlike CRT's, you can't easily increase resolution to accomplish this goal. I'm not even sure that any manufacturer is actually producing digital LCD's at 130-150 dpi.

From a practical point of view, this would make reading application software difficult at best-imagine all fonts making up the menu bar, pull down menus, dialog boxes etc about 27% smaller. If anything, the trend is slight toward the other direction (hence the popularity of the 14" iBooks vs. the 12"...easier on the eyes.)

Additionally, developing video content, let alone HD content is going to require a hard drive much faster than that in the current generation of laptops. 7200rpm is the minimum. And let's not forget capacity. The current generation of laptops top out at 80Gb. Developing video content also requires a scratch disk. Ideally any laptop would have 2 internal HD's...but now we're starting to get away from a laptop and into a luggable.

Lastly, and not to put too blunt a point on this. Just exactly what HD content are you talking about viewing on your laptop (or desktop for that matter)? I certainly can't find any DVD's that are HD. Anyone care to comment on the lack of HD content?

I work as a sales rep for an Apple reseller and have asked for any kind of HD demo video from Apple...there isn't any as far I've been told. There is no way for me to show hi-def on the 23" display, none, nada.

 

[sjk]

I'm tossing up between the 15" and the 12". But the 12" is so sexy n cool. Do peopel find teh screen ok or too small? My current machine is an IBM thinkpad R40 P4 1.8Ghz with 15.1" screen, so be interested in how i'd go using a G4 PB for day to day work (which is really email/web/server admin stuff)

After using a 12" iBook for 2.5 years the #1 priority for my next system is a higher resolution display. 1024x768 would be completely intolerable by now if it weren't for CodeTek Virtual Desktop, which has successfully given me enough of an illusion of a larger display even if I can't see all of it at once. Adding Exposé with 10.3 helped, too.

During my career as a Sun/Solaris sysadmin I've used different virtual desktop managers with X11 on larger monitors. The iBook was my first notebook system (and Mac), which I chose over the 15.2" PowerBook since the hardware and Mac OS X were both new to me. Even with its current limitations I'm still glad I made that choice. There are a few things I miss from Solaris (from a purely Unix perspective) but OS X has a more playful personality. I'm hooked.

PBs (and newer iBs than mine, with a firmware patch) have extended desktop support (aka monitor spanning) so you can use an external monitor at higher resolution. That can be a factor in which system you choose.

Once I get a decent desktop system (a Mac, of course ) my G3 iBook will still be fine for portable use. But without extended desktop video support it's been a lame desktop replacement system, which it became after relegating my old Suns to part time server duties.

I think you'll enjoy your new system, whichever you choose!

 

[Nemesis]

You'd be surprised ...

No, G5s running at 2.0 GHz are the problem at the moment.
Apple can't get enough 2.0 GHz chips to satisfy the Xserve demand. That was stated in the call - chip supply is the sole problem.

You'd be surprised, man

They're hitting for the top of the crop only, and what doesn't fit the bill, goes for lower speeds. G5s that don't pass the tests for 2.4 GHz go into XServers, new iMacs, new PBooks and one completely new Alu machine.

And IBM already has some yields running at 3GHz!

It's all or nothing, man!
They're on a race, and there's no going back!!

 

[aswitcher]

You'd be surprised, man

They're hitting for the top of the crop only, and what doesn't fit the bill, goes for lower speeds. G5s that don't pass the tests for 2.4 GHz go into XServers, new iMacs, new PBooks and one completely new Alu machine.

And IBM already has some yields running at 3GHz!

It's all or nothing, man!
They're on a race, and there's no going back!!

I am looking forward to confirmation of your "inside knowledge". It seems to make sense but as yet you have yet to be proved right. Maybe next Tuesday.

 

[Tomaz]

From the French Site "Croquer dans la pomme"

Specs of the upcoming portables:

Ligne portable grand public
M9418LL/A iBook 14, Combo, 1.25 Ghz
M9419LL/A iBook 14, Superdrive, 1.33Ghz
M9426LL/A iBook 12, 1 Ghz

Ligne portable Pro
M9183LL/A Powerbook 12 Combo 1.33 Ghz
M9184LL/A Powerbook 12 Superdrive 1.33 Ghz
M9421LL/A Powerbook 15 Combo 1.42 Ghz
M9422LL/A Powerbook 15 Superdrive 1.42 Ghz
M9462LL/A Powerbook 17, 1.5 Ghz

Les Powerbook G5 arriveront en septembre, le temps de résoudre les problèmes de productions. (PBG5s in September!)

These specs don't really kick ass! I was prepared for another G4 revision, but only 1.42 Ghz in the 15"?? Hope they also updated other parts of the PB, not only processor speed!

 

[Zaty]

Specs of the upcoming portables:

Ligne portable grand public
M9418LL/A iBook 14, Combo, 1.25 Ghz
M9419LL/A iBook 14, Superdrive, 1.33Ghz
M9426LL/A iBook 12, 1 Ghz

Ligne portable Pro
M9183LL/A Powerbook 12 Combo 1.33 Ghz
M9184LL/A Powerbook 12 Superdrive 1.33 Ghz
M9421LL/A Powerbook 15 Combo 1.42 Ghz
M9422LL/A Powerbook 15 Superdrive 1.42 Ghz
M9462LL/A Powerbook 17, 1.5 Ghz

Les Powerbook G5 arriveront en septembre, le temps de résoudre les problèmes de productions. (PBG5s in September!)

These specs don't really kick ass! I was prepared for another G4 revision, but only 1.42 Ghz in the 15"?? Hope they also updated other parts of the PB, not only processor speed!

Are they just guessing or do they really have information on the new specs? Generally speaking, their specs seem plausible except for the SD in the 14" iBook. I believe it only when I see it. But of course, if they put a 1.25 GHz processor into the low-end 14" iBook and a 1.33 GHZ into the high-end machine, they have to differentiate them properly. If the only difference were the bigger hard drive, it would be difficult to justify the more expensive model. I would have thought the low-end iBook would only get a 1 GHz CPU but Apple has already surprised us with the eMac update so let’s hope for the best!

 

[aswitcher]

Specs of the upcoming portables:

Ligne portable grand public
M9418LL/A iBook 14, Combo, 1.25 Ghz
M9419LL/A iBook 14, Superdrive, 1.33Ghz
M9426LL/A iBook 12, 1 Ghz

Whoa , an iBook with a super drive as fast as the current 17"... I find that a little hard to believe.

With improved screen graphics and possibly cards this will be tempting to would be powerbook owners

Ligne portable Pro
M9183LL/A Powerbook 12 Combo 1.33 Ghz
M9184LL/A Powerbook 12 Superdrive 1.33 Ghz
M9421LL/A Powerbook 15 Combo 1.42 Ghz
M9422LL/A Powerbook 15 Superdrive 1.42 Ghz
M9462LL/A Powerbook 17, 1.5 Ghz

At least the model numbers are consistent with Appleinsider.

Hardly a significant speed bump. Wonder if its a new chip with a better bus and ram?

Les Powerbook G5 arriveront en septembre, le temps de résoudre les problèmes de productions.

(PBG5s in September!)

These specs don't really kick ass! I was prepared for another G4 revision, but only 1.42 Ghz in the 15"?? Hope they also updated other parts of the PB, not only processor speed!

No the specs are pretty average. I do hope they have enough other improvements. Screen resolution would help differentiate them even more from the iBooks which are dogging their tails. iBooks look very tempting if these figures prove right.


G5PB September ...I hope thats shipping in September... Can I wait 5 more months...

 

[Zaty]

SNIP
No the specs are pretty average. I do hope they have enough other improvements. Screen resolution would help differentiate them even more from the iBooks which are dogging their tails. iBooks look very tempting if these figures prove right.

Well, if those specs are true, it's only a minor upgrade for the 17" and the high-end 15" PBs. But the low-end 15" PB, the 12" PBs as well as the iBooks would be significantly faster than their current counterparts.

 

[Tomaz]

G5PB September ...I hope thats shipping in September... Can I wait 5 more months...

Wait (at least) 5 more months? No way! I'll buy whatever top 15" PB comes out next.
And then I'll hope that the G5s come out as late as possible and that the first rev will have as many problems as possible so that my decision to buy PB G4 rev c next week will prove to have been the right decision.

 

[aswitcher]

Wait (at least) 5 more months? No way! I'll buy whatever top 15" PB comes out next.
And then I'll hope that the G5s come out as late as possible and that the first rev will have as many problems as possible so that my decision to buy PB G4 rev c next week will prove to have been the right decision.

Yeah, people keep saying rev A's are to be avoided. But the G4 to G5 jump is a big big leap, giving it a much greater future which is what I am thinking I want. 3 years from now 5 months will mean very little, but a G5 (if it works or Apple care fixes problems) would be a far nicer to have with the os and much of the software optomised for it, and no risk of a new OS for 64 bit only making me mad.