Apple PowerBook and iBook Updates - Next Week?

[Nemesis]

Whoa , an iBook with a super drive as fast as the current 17"... I find that a little hard to believe.

With improved screen graphics and possibly cards this will be tempting to would be powerbook owners

G5PB September ...I hope thats shipping in September... Can I wait 5 more months...

That is all nonsense! French sites claimed 2 years ago that LCD iMac would come with stupid G3 processor, but they were all knocked down when Apple revealed 800 MHZ G4 in a consumer machine!
Just wait for a while! Apple would NOT announce such a laughable update -- C'mon men, 10% speed increase is for kids, not for pros!

 

[aswitcher]

That is all nonsense! French sites claimed 2 years ago that LCD iMac would come with stupid G3 processor, but they were all knocked down when Apple revealed 800 MHZ G4 in a consumer machine!
Just wait for a while! Apple would NOT announce such a laughable update -- C'mon men, 10% speed increase is for kids, not for pros!

Your pretty sure its some G5s then in the high end, and this is happening next week?

Well not long now to see whose right...4 more sleeps

 

[olidev]

Specs of the upcoming portables:

Ligne portable grand public
M9418LL/A iBook 14, Combo, 1.25 Ghz
M9419LL/A iBook 14, Superdrive, 1.33Ghz
M9426LL/A iBook 12, 1 Ghz

Ligne portable Pro
M9183LL/A Powerbook 12 Combo 1.33 Ghz
M9184LL/A Powerbook 12 Superdrive 1.33 Ghz
M9421LL/A Powerbook 15 Combo 1.42 Ghz
M9422LL/A Powerbook 15 Superdrive 1.42 Ghz
M9462LL/A Powerbook 17, 1.5 Ghz

Les Powerbook G5 arriveront en septembre, le temps de résoudre les problèmes de productions. (PBG5s in September!)

These specs don't really kick ass! I was prepared for another G4 revision, but only 1.42 Ghz in the 15"?? Hope they also updated other parts of the PB, not only processor speed!

Look at this page

 

[arobasefr]

Motorola confirms next G4 PPC processors



http://www.macbidouille.com/news/photonews16/MC7447ARQI2.jpg

 

[Zaty]

That is all nonsense! French sites claimed 2 years ago that LCD iMac would come with stupid G3 processor, but they were all knocked down when Apple revealed 800 MHZ G4 in a consumer machine!
Just wait for a while! Apple would NOT announce such a laughable update -- C'mon men, 10% speed increase is for kids, not for pros!

10% speed increase? If the 12" PB and the 14" iBook went from 1 GHz to 1.33 GHz, it would be a 33% speed increase, if they only changed CPUs. The 12" iBook would get a 20% speed increase. As for the low-end 15" PB which is a currently at 1 GHz, that upgrade would mean a mind-blowing 42% speed increase! Show me a Wintel machine that got a 42% speed increase at once.

 

[aswitcher]

Look at this page

Ok, looks like paydirt.

Speeds look consistent with French claims...as far as my amateur eyes can tell.

Still not sure if this means no G5s, just the Moto have some new faster chips.

Is the 7447A got other worthy properties or is it just the same but faster?

 

[Tomaz]

10% speed increase? If the 12" PB and the 14" iBook went from 1 GHz to 1.33 GHz, it would be a 33% speed increase, if they only changed CPUs. The 12" iBook would get a 20% speed increase. As for the low-end 15" PB which is a currently at 1 GHz, that upgrade would mean a mind-blowing 42% speed increase! Show me a Wintel machine that got a 42% speed increase at once.

But less than 13.6% increase in the fast 15" and 12.8% in the 17"......that's rather ridiculous! I therefore request:
- longer battery time (Centrino...)
- 5400rpm HD (at least)
- better screen
- quicker bus and ram.

Then I think the top end PBs might be a good deal, even without price drops.

 

[aswitcher]

Is the 7447A got other worthy properties or is it just the same but faster?

Ok, to answer my own question


http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/02/23/motorola_chip_launch_paves_way/
23 Feb

The new Motorola part is dubbed the 7447A and adds on-the-fly clock frequency adjustment, allowing system makers to run at reduced frequencies according to workload. [BOLD] The upshot is longer battery life. [/BOLD] And there's now a temperature-sensing diode included to monitor die temperature, Motorola says.

At 1.42GHz, the chip consumes 20W of power, Motorola claims, which compares well to the 7447's 21.3W at 1.33GHz. The company also mentions a lower power version of the 7447A that consumes less than 9.3W at 1.167GHz, which seems no better than the old 7447's claimed 7.5W at 1GHz. The low-power 7447A has a core voltage of 1.1V; the regular 7447A runs at 1.3V.

Essentially, the 7447A is a revised 7447, itself a low-power version of the 7457. The 130nm 7447 is currently used by Apple in its PowerBook G4. The iBook is based on the older 7455. The 7447 is a trimmed down version of the 7457, losing the latter's support for external L3 cache. The 7457 and both versions of the 7447 contain 512KB of on-die L2 cache. All three are fabbed using silicon on insulator technology.

 

[Nemesis]

You don't announce normal updates!

Your pretty sure its some G5s then in the high end, and this is happening next week?

Well not long now to see whose right...4 more sleeps

Why would Apple draw attention to itself by announcing pretty average or below average update (a pathetic 160 MHz speed bump and the same obsolete G4, with 167 MHz bus).
No. They are going for more power.

 

[aswitcher]

But less than 13.6% increase in the fast 15" and 12.8% in the 17"......that's rather ridiculous! I therefore request:
- longer battery time (Centrino...)
- 5400rpm HD (at least)
- better screen
- quicker bus and ram.

Then I think the top end PBs might be a good deal, even without price drops.

I agree that since I was in the market for a 15" super or possibly a 17", then I want these sorts of additions and a price drop.

I really hope that rumour about HDTV means we see all new screens for the PB to act as a significant professional difference with the iBooks.

And that bus, thats one of my big concerns about buying a G4. Everyone complains that this bus bottleneck is the machines achille's heel. G5 buses (and ram) are just so fast in comparison...

If the 15" super and 17" were G5s and the others G4s, as was rumored, then that would make a big difference, because those minor clock speed improvements would not reflect the actual speed boost those machines would get. Here's hoping.

 

[aswitcher]

No. They are going for more power.

This title bout for Oracle is looking good for you if you get this right. Jimmy will understand I am sure

 

[Zaty]

But less than 13.6% increase in the fast 15" and 12.8% in the 17"......that's rather ridiculous! I therefore request:
- longer battery time (Centrino...)
- 5400rpm HD (at least)
- better screen
- quicker bus and ram.

Then I think the top end PBs might be a good deal, even without price drops.

True but given that the PPC 7447A maxes out at 1.5 GHz, Apple doesn't have any possibility to more significantly increase the performance of the top-end configurations. Unfortunately, we don't have any info on the rest of the specs which can also make a difference (e.g. 128 MB VRAM or faster HDs).

 

[Penman]

HD.

Good points but wrong thought process.

All FCP users using PB's now have to use extrenal drives Storage is a problem with SD - HD just makes it worse. You can't edit SD using a PB's internal drive regardless of resolution.

Being able to display HD native, or drive a monitor (external) at HD is the key. It means the processor doesn't waste cycles scaling images. You wouldn't work at that resolution necessarily.

Also as for 'it looks too small' people said that when I was running 1600x1200 on a 20" monitor - it was fine for me.

Blu-Ray DVD will be here by Christmas. HD is the future of digital video. Apple have to embrace that future or risk losing a huge part of their pro user base. It's not even nearly optional.

Finally to produce SD content you often work with HD (or film). PB's are designed for content creators. By the time HD-DVD is on the shelves the people who edit the movies will have been working in HD a while.

The shift may well not happen this Tuesday but to reitterate - the 23" monitor was built and designed only with HD in mind (a 1" upgrade - no sense. Plus check the resolution - exactly HD, in fact as I remember that's how it was advertised.)

If the G5 PB's aren't HD capable (whenever they appear) Apple will be getting a lot of calls from confused editors.

In order to squeeze that many pixels into a 17" LCD display you would have to shrink the size of the images by 27% (35% on a 15"). Currently, Apples LCD's are approx. 100dpi monitors. Unlike CRT's, you can't easily increase resolution to accomplish this goal. I'm not even sure that any manufacturer is actually producing digital LCD's at 130-150 dpi.

From a practical point of view, this would make reading application software difficult at best-imagine all fonts making up the menu bar, pull down menus, dialog boxes etc about 27% smaller. If anything, the trend is slight toward the other direction (hence the popularity of the 14" iBooks vs. the 12"...easier on the eyes.)

Additionally, developing video content, let alone HD content is going to require a hard drive much faster than that in the current generation of laptops. 7200rpm is the minimum. And let's not forget capacity. The current generation of laptops top out at 80Gb. Developing video content also requires a scratch disk. Ideally any laptop would have 2 internal HD's...but now we're starting to get away from a laptop and into a luggable.

Lastly, and not to put too blunt a point on this. Just exactly what HD content are you talking about viewing on your laptop (or desktop for that matter)? I certainly can't find any DVD's that are HD. Anyone care to comment on the lack of HD content?

I work as a sales rep for an Apple reseller and have asked for any kind of HD demo video from Apple...there isn't any as far I've been told. There is no way for me to show hi-def on the 23" display, none, nada.

 

[aswitcher]

Being able to display HD native, or drive a monitor (external) at HD is the key. It means the processor doesn't waste cycles scaling images. You wouldn't work at that resolution necessarily.

Also as for 'it looks too small' people said that when I was running 1600x1200 on a 20" monitor - it was fine for me.

If the G5 PB's aren't HD capable (whenever they appear) Apple will be getting a lot of calls from confused editors.

OK, so are you of the opinion that the powerbook screens themselves should have their resolutions improved for any aspect of this work, or is just the video card?

I would have thought that being able to play HD on the 17" in true resolution would be a selling point???

 

[Tomaz]

Why would Apple draw attention to itself by announcing pretty average or below average update...They are going for more power.

Apple didn't draw any attention to itself yet. As far as I know they have only announced some updates at NAB. Officially we don't even know if it's software or hardware. Tell me if I'm wrong. And I really believe that NAB is a too small event (compared to WWDC) to announce such a big deal as PB G5s. I hope I'm wrong though!

 

[aswitcher]

Apple didn't draw any attention to itself yet. As far as I know they have only announced some updates at NAB. Officially we don't even know if it's software or hardware. Tell me if I'm wrong. And I really believe that NAB is a too small event (compared to WWDC) to announce such a big deal as PB G5s. I hope I'm wrong though!

Well given another recent posters views on HD, it would make sense to bump up the G5s screens, so that the 20" supports HD and the 23" supports it and more so editing tools can be used around the video being edited???

 

[cyks]

Great...so now we have (hopeful) specs... anyone care to wager on the prices?... same as they are now? lower? higher?.... anyone?

 

[Tomaz]

Great...so now we have (hopeful) specs... anyone care to wager on the prices?... same as they are now? lower? higher?.... anyone?

Considering that these updates are just minor ones, I predict a slight price drop (100-250$).

 

[aswitcher]

Great...so now we have (hopeful) specs... anyone care to wager on the prices?... same as they are now? lower? higher?.... anyone?

Same price point in most cases would be my guess.

If they put a super in the iBook or 128 in the pBooks maybe it will creep a bit higher but I hope not. Indeed given its not what I call a great speed update for the high end pbs I would hope for a price reduction.

Other bits and peices like better screens, faster harddrives, better graphics cards etc might mess with the maths.

But the G5 chips are actually cheaper, but likely costlier to cool (?), so I also expect them to be at the same price point when they appear. I know whats going to be better value, assuming I can wait.

 

[AidenShaw]

Eventually,, you'll be right. No oracle here.

And IBM already has some yields running at 3GHz!!!

There's no trick to this prediction, of course there are chips that run at different speeds.

And of course speeds ramp up as the fab process matures.

The question is whether there are sufficient yields on the chips at the higher speeds - sufficient for the hundreds of thousands of systems that Apple would want.

And the answer is "eventually".
______

Do you remember when Intel's Barrett showed off a 3GHz Pentium 4, at a time when the fastest product was 2.2 GHz? (http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=2665)

This was in February 2002, and it wasn't until 9 months later (November) that a 3GHz product was announced. (http://www.intel.com/pressroom/kits/quickreffam.htm#p4Desk)

No magic, they just used one of the extremely rare 3GHz chips from the "top of the bin". It took nearly a year before they had sufficient yields at 3 GHz to make it a product.
_______

It would be unusual for IBM or Apple to suffer the embarrassment and loss of revenue with the Xserve, only to be stockpiling faster chips for future systems (as you suggest).

Traditionally, chipmakers will simply mark the faster chips as "slow" ones and get the revenue. Those "2.4 GHz" chips you claim to be here could be sold as 2.0 GHz and could be making money for Apple and IBM (as well as saving face). (Look at any of the overclocker websites to confirm this)

Another odd point about your logic is the notion of stockpiling itself. Apple won't announce a faster product until the *flow* of faster chips is guaranteed. They might stockpile enough to handle the initial burst of demand for the faster systems, but Apple does not have a history of doing that.

So, I would certainly believe that isolated 970FX chips might be stable at 3 GHz, but the Xserve fiasco really makes me doubt that large numbers of 2.4 to 3.0 GHz chips are sitting in warehouses waiting to go into new Apple designs.

It flies in the face of every "just in time" inventory model to have all that money invested in stuff sitting in a storeroom. Better to sell at 2.0 GHz, especially since as the fab process matures the yield on the faster chips will increase - so that those "valuable" fast chips will have become common.
______

On the other hand, there's ego involved, so business logic might not apply.

Maybe we'll see Jobs repeating Intel's stunt - he'll be at WWDC showing off one of those hand-picked 3 GHz systems, even though you won't be able to buy them for 9 more months.

 

[dieselg4]

Whoa , an iBook with a super drive as fast as the current 17"... I find that a little hard to believe.

When they updated the iBooks last time the 14" got a chip as fast as the current 15". . . .i guess its possible.

 

[James L]

Don't get your hopes up for G5 PB...

Hey all,

All this talk about G5 Powerbooks this week is a bit out of wack, and I fear setting some people up for quite the disappointment. Apple has NEVER said new G5 powerbooks are going to come out soon. Here are some quotes from various Apple sources in the media:


November 3, 2003 - 17:00 EST** Dave Russell, director of product marketing for portables and wireless at Apple, recently discussed the possibility of a PowerBook G5 with ComputerWorld: "We certainly want to do that," he said. "But it's going to be a while. We think the G4 has a very long life in the PowerBook." He echoed that the main hurdle in getting a G5 processor into a laptop is the need to keep the processor cool.


I found that comment with a quick search at these sites:

http://www.macminute.com/2003/11/03/powerbookg5

http://www.insanely-great.com/news.php?id=2691


Also, Steve Jobs is on record as saying:

Afterwards [Jobs] admitted that the decisive revolution will be the introduction in laptops of the new 64 bit chip, the G5, that the company has developed along with IBM, with an investment of 3 billion dollars. 'We are working on it and what we'd like is to have it by the end of next year', he said.

Translation by microrario and VladDracul.

A caveat: An offhand interview comment by Jobs should not necessarily be taken as a product release timeframe.


...I got that by searching these forums.


The fact that the original G5 towers took months to ship, the fact that xserves, released 6 months after the G5 announcement but STILL at the same 2.0 processor speed are 4 months late in shipping, the fact that Apple said in their quarterly meeting that IBM is having processor issues, etc should be a warning sign. Many people say they have solved the heat issues, but the CPU is only 1 heat generator.

So, in my view, IBM can't get the chips out well right now, Apple has told their shareholders that. 5 months ago Dave Russell said in an interview that the G4 would be in the PB for "a very long life", and Steve Jobs said "We are working on it and what we'd like is to have it by the end of next year."

NONE of those things point to an imminent release of a G5 powerbook. With Apple's history, I would say MWSF in January 2005.

Now, could I be wrong? Of course. Could it all be smoke and mirrors on Apples part? Of course. Reality would indicate, however, that the next PB update IS a G4, and I might even guess it is the last G4 Powerbook.... but I would love Apple to prove me wrong on the whole G5 thing.

Cheers,

James

 

[agentmouthwash]

I remember back in September people here were screaming when Apple didn't release G5 powerbooks. That was over 7 months ago! I couldn't wait,
so I made the purchase then and have been happy ever since. Anyways..

Did Apple ever release iBooks and Powerbooks the same day?
I don't think so. Most people (not everybody) seem to be happy
with the current ibooks, but not with the Powerbooks.

I can see this happening:
Next week Apple releases G5 Powerbooks - probably running at 1.60ghz.
Sometime in the summer they will release updated G4 iBooks - probably running at 1.25ghz or maybe even 1.42 ghz just in time for school.

I don't see Apple releasing the G5 iMacs before the G5 Powerbooks are released.
Guess what? The current iMacs NEED to be upgraded because the new eMacs
are so much better...


I smell G5 Powerbook.

 

[DHagan4755]

James L...

Great post! Couldn't have said it better. We all hope you're wrong but your thoughts are common sense.

 

[()verBored]

I smell an iBook G5