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Steve also thought a 3.7" phone was the perfect size. He's been wrong MANY times


Also, to have true 1:1 reaction wouldn't apple need to change the display technology? So it's not going to work on the current iPad and just be as effective as current iPad stylus out there

From a one handed usability point of view , Steve was spot on. For most people using a iphone plus one handed its an ackward experience at best. I know , I have one. My iphone 4 is the perfect phone for flawless one handed use .

Dont twist what jobs criteria was.

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if true , disappointed that apple innovation has turned to copying a rival and making a better product, Sony .

Alas seems that without jobs , Apple is just another company. He made it special and pushed to be different . Welcome the new Sony of tech.
 
Funny, everyone was laughing at Microsoft when they included the Stylus with the Surface Pro, and now it seems Apple is following suit.

I know I know, 'Apple does it better',,, 'now is the time, it was too early two years ago', etc.. but you have to give them credit that they were on to something with the idea of 'productive tablet' rather than a media consumption device.

I do plenty of work on my iPad and iPhone, I don't get where all this "Consumption only device" comes from.

The iPad does have its limitations but for many years now it has been a lot more than a media consumption device, truth is that it is up to the user to decide what to do with it.

Hand an iPad to a musician and they can record and produce a full album on it, hand it to an artist and they will paint a masterpiece on it, I could go on and on but I hope you get my point. Usability and productivity at this point is entirely up to the user.

I also hope like many others have mentioned that if true, the Apple pen or stylus has advanced pressure sensitivity to be able to use it Wacom style.
 
Funny, everyone was laughing at Microsoft when they included the Stylus with the Surface Pro, and now it seems Apple is following suit.

I know I know, 'Apple does it better',,, 'now is the time, it was too early two years ago', etc.. but you have to give them credit that they were on to something with the idea of 'productive tablet' rather than a media consumption device.

Maybe I missed something, but the main reason people are interested in the Surface Pro at all is because of the stylus. Otherwise it is just a mediocre tablet and a mediocre laptop (I know because I own one.) The stylus is its primary selling point.

The one thing I don't like about my iPad is that it can't replace a simple pen and paper for taking notes or jotting ideas with anything other than just plain text.
 
Steve also thought a 3.7" phone was the perfect size. He's been wrong MANY times


Also, to have true 1:1 reaction wouldn't apple need to change the display technology? So it's not going to work on the current iPad and just be as effective as current iPad stylus out there

From a one handed usability point of view , Steve was spot on. For most people using a iphone plus one handed its an ackward experience at best. I know , I have one. My iphone 4 is the perfect phone for flawless one handed use .

Dont twist what jobs criteria was.

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if true , disappointed that apple innovation has turned to copying a rival and making a better product, Sony .

Alas seems that without jobs , Apple is just another company. He made it special and pushed to be different . Welcome the new Sony of tech.

It's not really a question as to whether he was right or wrong. He was the CEO and pitchman who was differentiating his product. If the iPhone was 6 inches back then, there would have been some quote about how screens are too small and 6" is required for easy reading. He positioned the screen size and also the idea that a stylus wasn't needed because it made Apple's offering different. And he positioned his product as better (why wouldn't he). Further - iOS was designed to work with fingers and not need a stylus at the time. Also - there was no app store back then. So it's not like apps were going to be created that would necessitate a stylus.

It's different now - screens are bigger. There are apps that can benefit from a stylus. And certainly the iPad could/would have always benefits from having one.
 
C) Stop going on about how there are 'no apps', that isn't true

It's absolutely true and I sometimes think the real reason Microsoft hasn't been able to overcome this hurdle is because there are so many people willing to put their head in the sand and ignore the problem. And many other users who will say 'I have the desktop, who needs apps?' when it ignores the many fundamental problems with that method in a modern, lightweight device that is expected to have long battery life and be instantly available at any time.

From today's NYT:

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/19/t...-region&region=bottom-well&WT.nav=bottom-well

Microsoft hastens to say that its app store has over 560,000 apps, most of them for smartphones, up 60 percent from a year ago. (Apple and Google have said that each of their app stores has more than a million apps.) And Microsoft says it offers from 85 to 95 percent of the apps that people tell the company they want on a smartphone. Netflix, Facebook, Spotify and other A-list apps are all available for Windows Phone.

Yet Microsoft’s numbers do not capture the slim pickings of other popular apps. People searching for Lyft, HBO Go or Snapchat will find no Windows Phone option. Nor will one find RunKeeper, a popular mobile app for joggers....

...Microsoft has long acknowledged the need to expand its app selection. The company has offered to finance the development of Windows Phone apps for prominent developers, in some cases paying for outside contractors to do the programming work, according to a former Microsoft executive, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because the discussions were confidential.

But even that was not enough for the executive at one top mobile-game developer, who said Microsoft gave up asking his company to support Windows Phone about a year ago. “We need an actual market and large, global installed base to justify it,” said this executive, who did not want to be named in order to preserve his relationship with Microsoft.

Minecraft, one of the most popular mobile games, came out in December for Windows Phone, years after it was available on other platforms. And that happened after Microsoft paid $2.5 billion to buy the developer of the game.


In addition, some of the major apps on Windows Phone are either not as polished or are not updated as frequently as on other platforms. Instagram, the photo-sharing service owned by Facebook, came out on Windows Phone over a year ago, after a long delay, but it still does not include the ability to record video, a function that Instagram introduced nearly two years ago.

Again, there might be some proportion of the top 25 iOS and Android apps available on Windows, but outside of that, the selection is almost nil. And of the big ones available, it's the last platform to get updates, and many of those 'big name' apps have so few resources devoted to them that they lack basic functionality. They exist, but don't pretend they are anything like their first-tier offerings.

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Maybe I missed something, but the main reason people are interested in the Surface Pro at all is because of the stylus. Otherwise it is just a mediocre tablet and a mediocre laptop (I know because I own one.) The stylus is its primary selling point.

The one thing I don't like about my iPad is that it can't replace a simple pen and paper for taking notes or jotting ideas with anything other than just plain text.

100% agreed. If my iPad had a great stylus the SP would be gone in an instant.
 
if it's not a new technology with impressive and competitive pressure sensitivity, there's a surface pro 4 in my future.

• highly pressure sensitive touch screen
• OSX (not a 'hybrid')

^ these are the important things (for me and *many* content creators). the latest rumors are disappointing to say the least.
 
It's absolutely true and I sometimes think the real reason Microsoft hasn't been able to overcome this hurdle is because there are so many people willing to put their head in the sand and ignore the problem. And many other users who will say 'I have the desktop, who needs apps?' when it ignores the many fundamental problems with that method in a modern, lightweight device that is expected to have long battery life and be instantly available at any time.

From today's NYT:

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/19/t...-region&region=bottom-well&WT.nav=bottom-well



Again, there might be some proportion of the top 25 iOS and Android apps available on Windows, but outside of that, the selection is almost nil. And of the big ones available, it's the last platform to get updates, and many of those 'big name' apps have so few resources devoted to them that they lack basic functionality. They exist, but don't pretend they are anything like their first-tier offerings.

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100% agreed. If my iPad had a great stylus the SP would be gone in an instant.

The surface pro doesn't use the app store that windows phone uses it uses bog standard windows and you install standard windows applications that is what sets it apart from the ipad.
 
The surface pro doesn't use the app store that windows phone uses it uses bog standard windows and you install standard windows applications that is what sets it apart from the ipad.

Know how I know you didn't read the article?

Know how I know you don't own a Surface Pro?

Geez, you didn't even read my post or the posts that it stemmed from. :eek:
 
About a decade ago I was a project manager for software development. We were a small shop so I also led most meetings. I had one of those quirky HP tablets with a stylus (which I LOVED).

Using OneNote I was able to take handwritten meeting notes that included drawings of screen designs (something you simply can't do with just a keyboard). The software would convert my very bad handwriting into text and keep the drawings. This allowed me to save many hours of re typing and circulate the notes to everyone including the devs.

A good stylus isn't just for artists. Whether some like it or not many of us still need to use handwriting and drawings in many jobs. We're not talking about those huge nubbed styluses out there now, we're talking about a real pen input with all the control of a pen.

Unless Apple just wants to fully concede the enterprise market to MS they simply have to upgrade the iPad with an enterprise-ready OS and that includes good stylus support.
 
Maybe I missed something, but the main reason people are interested in the Surface Pro at all is because of the stylus. Otherwise it is just a mediocre tablet and a mediocre laptop (I know because I own one.) The stylus is its primary selling point.

I am interested in a Surface Pro but could care less about the stylus. Would never use it. My interest is because it is a laptop/tablet combination. I want a full featured OS in a tablet form factor. Since Apple isn't giving me this, I'm looking at the Surface.
 
OSX? No...

This thing won't run OSX full stop - not going to happen. BUT I still stand by the notion that if it can be paired to a Mac using Continuity, or some other system, for the Graphics Pro at least, it has massive potential - effectively a Wacom-style tablet & stylus with the benefit of having on-board storage. I can work on a Photoshop project at home, using my iPad Pro to control my iMac, save my project onto the iPad, take it to work, connect to my work machine and carry on working. I can collaborate with others around me on-screen rather than have to huddle around the tablet and I'll be able to tap into my music and photo libraries as I need to and see and hear them on the Mac. To directly edit images that reside on my iPad on a computer screen and re-save them with no proper sync-ing required (this is Apple, after all - it *should* just work (feel free to see that as a sarcastic remark should you wish)) would be utterly fanfeckingtastic for me. Hands up if you'd agree...
 
I am interested in a Surface Pro but could care less about the stylus. Would never use it. My interest is because it is a laptop/tablet combination. I want a full featured OS in a tablet form factor. Since Apple isn't giving me this, I'm looking at the Surface.

The problem with the Surface is that it's a tweener... it's not a very good tablet: it's quite large and heavy and the picking are really slim when it comes to touch optimized software. On the other hand, it isn't the greatest laptop around... it's pretty expensive and has a pretty crappy keyboard and trackpad. It's not a terrible device... if you want to dip your toe into tablets and need a Windows "ultrabook", then it's a decent, albeit expensive choice.

(You aren't interested in the stylus, but that's where the surface starts to make sense to me. It seems to have a relatively very good stylus implementation with low latency, high-precision and low parallax compared to various others I've tried.)
 
Smaller iPads.
Larger iPhones.
And now a stylus.

The evidence is clear. There can be no more denial. Hell has not frozen over, but it is experiencing climate change.
 
It's absolutely true and I sometimes think the real reason Microsoft hasn't been able to overcome this hurdle is because there are so many people willing to put their head in the sand and ignore the problem. And many other users who will say 'I have the desktop, who needs apps?' when it ignores the many fundamental problems with that method in a modern, lightweight device that is expected to have long battery life and be instantly available at any time.

From today's NYT:

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/19/t...-region&region=bottom-well&WT.nav=bottom-well



Again, there might be some proportion of the top 25 iOS and Android apps available on Windows, but outside of that, the selection is almost nil. And of the big ones available, it's the last platform to get updates, and many of those 'big name' apps have so few resources devoted to them that they lack basic functionality. They exist, but don't pretend they are anything like their first-tier offerings.

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100% agreed. If my iPad had a great stylus the SP would be gone in an instant.

"It doesn't have these apps here" and "it has no apps" are two different things.
 
My only concern is how this might potentially affect app design.

As of the moment, most apps are designed primarily for the touchscreen because there haven't been any viable styluses.

Would a stylus incentivise developers to create apps with a UI that's more optimised for a stylus (and the precision that comes with it) rather than touch? Which in turn means that I "must" use a stylus if I am to navigate the app with any degree of ease.
If it was that amazing of an app, that you had to have, you would get stylus. I would imagine, some of the drawing/painting apps would do very well this way if Apple was to offer better tools for building apps for use with a stylus (pressure sensitivity, etc.). Especially because of pent up demand. If it made the app better, sure why not. I doubt you will ever see mandatory general iOS navigation with a stylus though. I don't think Apple would ever go that extreme on it.
 
Maybe I missed something, but the main reason people are interested in the Surface Pro at all is because of the stylus. Otherwise it is just a mediocre tablet and a mediocre laptop (I know because I own one.) The stylus is its primary selling point.

The one thing I don't like about my iPad is that it can't replace a simple pen and paper for taking notes or jotting ideas with anything other than just plain text.

I don't know about it being the main reason but I know it does matter for some people. My teaching assistant last semester bought a surface pro and he was super happy about the stylus. He takes all lecture notes on it now and completely ditched paper. I tried it out and I must say i was very envious. Vastly superior to anything you can do with a stylus on an ipad. I've tried a number of styluses with an ipad and they all suck. note taking ipad software such as Notability is actually great but it can't overcome hardware limitations of nonexistent stylus support.
 
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Funny enough I never found the need for one. Can't help but think there are millions like me.

I'm sure there are millions like you. And I'm sure there are millions not like you. Just depends on what kind of things an individual wants to do on their tablet. Watch movies, browse web, check email? No stylus. Create art, take free form notes that include charts/equations/etc., notate music, markup PDFs? Stylus.

Again, like so many have said, "need" is the key word. No, you do not need it. If true, it will just be an option for those that want it.
 
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