Apple Procurement VP Departs Company After Vulgar TikTok Comment

[JKAussieSkater]

So below are the current numbers for reactions to this very legitimate comment. 10% of these reactions are people who do not get this comment. So what that means is that the modern standard of only accepting those who express perfect virtue and silencing people with edgy senses of humor is being driven by 10%. Why would we think it is good that Apple fired a guy because he told a joke that a vast majority of people think is perfectly fine? Are we seriously wanting to live in a world where the most easily offended minority of people get to set the standards? Because that is where we are. The most easily offended people you can possibly find, who are a vast minority of people, are trying to force the majority of people from saying all of the things that the vast majority of people say or think all of the time. This is dumb. Apple fired him, good for Apple. I guess you aren't allowed to work there if you express a sense of humor while off the clock that 10% of people do not appreciate. That sounds like a crappy place to work.
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These statistics don't support your argument, for at least a couple of reasons:

1. For some reason, there's an extraordinarily small user-base of women and non-binary people on the MacRumors forums. i.e. Almost all of the 204 reactions in the post you're quoting are cis-men.
2. Women account for 50% of the population in real life, beyond the community of MacRumors.
3. Since Apple products are almost inherently premium products, most people here would be part of a privileged lifestyle, perhaps less aware of the inequalities other people face.

Since the comment is derogatory to women, you could almost assume that the 164 likes from men would have an equal and opposite 164 dislikes from women on the same post, if that many women were actively following this forum thread.

Personally, those statistics you have displayed sadden me that the majority of men on these forums don't reject the objectification of women, and would rather joke about them than thwart their oppression.

EDIT: This post was challenged for the sources of the claims, and the sources were provided here.

 

[maxoakland]

We all know Tim's sexual preferences and everyone is cool with it. Why is it different to know the VP of procurement's preferences?

You’re using the logical fallacy of false equivalency. Tim Cook barely says a word about his sexual preferences. The only thing you know about him is he likes men. We don’t know any more than that

The fact that you’re equating these vulgar and offensive statements to being gay and simply existing says a lot about the way you view LGBT people

 

[icanhazmac]

For some reason, there's an extraordinarily small user-base of women and non-binary people on the MacRumors forums. i.e. Almost all of the 204 reactions in the post you're quoting are cis-men.

Please provide citation for all 3 of these assertions. These are your opinions, stop making blanket generalizations.

Since Apple products are almost inherently premium products, most people here would be part of a privileged lifestyle, perhaps less aware of the inequalities other people face.

Again please provide citation for this, I didn't know MR collected and published income information for its users. There are lots of second hand Apple products in use presumably bought a less than full retail prices.

Since the comment is derogatory to women

That is your opinion and a very broad generalization. IMHO there are both women and men out there that 100% disagree with your opinion and find this whole situation ridiculous. Just because YOU find the comment derogatory does not mean it is or that everyone feels the same.

You are entitled to your opinion, just don't expect that we all share it. Apparently most of us don't.

P.S. -

 

[yaxomoxay]

What an idiot. If you’re a person of significance never say something controversial online, in public, or on camera. Keep it neutral. It’s PR 101.

If your crowd is vast, as for TikTok video, you can’t say anything neutral. It will offend people, it’s just a numbers game. Even your comment above will offend people.

 

[cicalinarrot]

Your guarantee to freedom of speech means that the government won't persecute you for what you say.

Nobody has prevented him from saying anything he wants to, Apple has just prevented him from working for them, which is also their right.

Actions have consequences, they always have, and they always will. Not understanding that is the only cancer.

Wow, you seem to understand what free speech actually means and apply common sense to that definition. That’s so rare these days.

 

[yaxomoxay]

Your guarantee to freedom of speech means that the government won't persecute you for what you say.

Nobody has prevented him from saying anything he wants to, Apple has just prevented him from working for them, which is also their right.

Actions have consequences, they always have, and they always will. Not understanding that is the only cancer.

On a legal level you’re 100% spot on.

But freedom of speech is also a philosophy.

 

[JKAussieSkater]

Please provide citation for all 3 of these assertions. These are your opinions, stop making blanket generalizations.



Again please provide citation for this, I didn't know MR collected and published income information for its users. There are lots of second hand Apple products in use presumably bought a less than full retail prices.



That is your opinion and a very broad generalization. IMHO there are both women and men out there that 100% disagree with your opinion and find this whole situation ridiculous. Just because YOU find the comment derogatory does not mean it is or that everyone feels the same.

You are entitled to your opinion, just don't expect that we all share it. Apparently most of us don't.

P.S. -

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It's very easy to point the finger and say "Cite that or it's not true"... but if you think about what I've said and pay attention to the writing prose of all the replies to this topic, it's overwhelmingly obvious that almost all the people who replied are men. You can choose to not believe it in the absence of citations, but it's really quite obvious.

I'm sure you're right that many people have second-hand Apple products... but absolutely many more have second-hand PC products, or Androids... and this is probably related to a socioeconomic standing (a form of privilege). The fact that you didn't mention this is telling that my speculation is probably true: Some people on here are naive to the suffering of the less privileged.

As for the fact that there are women (and men) who 100% disagree with this joke being offensive, sure, I don't doubt that. But do you really think most women will endorse the joke? Especially given the context of society that women have faced misogynistic chauvinistic treatment and inequality for centuries, do you really think this joke is well received by most of the population? You seem to like citations, and I'm not providing any, so perhaps you'll completely disagree with my speculations...

 

[icanhazmac]

It's very easy to point the finger and say "Cite that or it's not true"... but if you think about what I've said and pay attention to the writing prose of all the replies to this topic, it's overwhelmingly obvious that almost all the people who replied are men. You can choose to not believe it in the absence of citations, but it's really quite obvious.

That's not the way it works. If you make statements and present them as fact you must provide citation if asked.

Debate

Guidelines: Be willing to engage in fact-based, constructive debate. Look for ways to inform and learn from others.

Rules:

1. Sources. If you claim that something's a fact, back it up with a source. When evidence of your claim is requested, you can either provide evidence or retract your claim. If you can't produce evidence when someone asks you to cite your sources, we may remove your posts. If you started the thread, then we may remove or close the thread.

Either provide citation or change/delete your posts.

 

[maxoakland]

Please provide citation for all 3 of these assertions. These are your opinions, stop making blanket generalizations.

Those aren’t opinions. They could be true or false but either way, they’re facts.

Debate

Guidelines: Be willing to engage in fact-based, constructive debate. Look for ways to inform and learn from others.

Rules:
Sources. If you claim that something's a fact, back it up with a source. When evidence of your claim is requested, you can either provide evidence or retract your claim. If you can't produce evidence when someone asks you to cite your sources, we may remove your posts. If you started the thread, then we may remove or close the thread.

While you’re reading the dictionary, check out the definitions for fact and opinion sometime

 

[JKAussieSkater]

That's not the way it works. If you make statements and present them as fact you must provide citation if asked.

Debate

Guidelines: Be willing to engage in fact-based, constructive debate. Look for ways to inform and learn from others.

Rules:

1. Sources. If you claim that something's a fact, back it up with a source. When evidence of your claim is requested, you can either provide evidence or retract your claim. If you can't produce evidence when someone asks you to cite your sources, we may remove your posts. If you started the thread, then we may remove or close the thread.

Either provide citation or change/delete your posts.

Sure.

1. Quote: "Almost all of the 204 reactions in the post you're quoting are cis-men."
   I've stated that by reading the prose of the respondents to this thread, you can guess that most of them identify as cis-male, so you're literally reading the raw data. Perhaps you interpret the raw data differently to me, but since my interpretation of the raw data (i.e. the "source") is an opinion, I believe I'm within the guidelines. Regardless, at least one poll survey on MacRumors shows 17% of users on MacRumors identify as "female", and 83% of users on MacRumors identify as "male".
2. Quote: "Women account for 50% of the population in real life, beyond the community of MacRumors."
   Citation 1, Citation 2
3. Quote: "Since Apple products are almost inherently premium products…"
   Citation 3
   Quote: "most people here [on MacRumors] would be part of a privileged lifestyle"
   This can be inferred, since people who can afford to buy premium products are more privileged than those who can't, and Apple products are more expensive.

I've played by the rules, now, as you demanded. But I feel like it wasn't necessary for the believability of my claims in this context.

 

[ninethirty]

On a legal level you’re 100% spot on.

But freedom of speech is also a philosophy.

There isn't any guarantee in the United States that you can say whatever you want without consequences. There never has been, and there never will be.

 

[ninethirty]

Please provide citation for all 3 of these assertions. These are your opinions, stop making blanket generalizations.



Again please provide citation for this, I didn't know MR collected and published income information for its users. There are lots of second hand Apple products in use presumably bought a less than full retail prices.



That is your opinion and a very broad generalization. IMHO there are both women and men out there that 100% disagree with your opinion and find this whole situation ridiculous. Just because YOU find the comment derogatory does not mean it is or that everyone feels the same.

You are entitled to your opinion, just don't expect that we all share it. Apparently most of us don't.

P.S. -

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This site/forum at some point over the last 15 or so years took a hard turn to the right and it's not at all surprising that most here would think it's ok to joke about "fondling large breasts," and lamenting that we just can't tell jokes anymore.

In reality, talking like this in public, when you represent a large, publicly traded company that generally prides itself on its wholesome image, is always going to result in that person losing their job. His actions represent Apple in a way that Apple isn't interested in being represented. Simple as that.

Like it or not, the world has changed. This isn't new, or news. Every generation that's come before us has whined and cried about "things not being the way they used to be," until they die, and the next generation starts whining and crying about the same thing.

Regardless, it really doesn't matter what anyone here thinks about it, because Apple didn't like it, and they fired the guy. If you disagree that strongly with Apple's position, see if you can find a company that makes quality products and has no issues with their executives making lewd comments in public. They'll be glad to have you, and I doubt Apple will care that they lost you.

 

[icanhazmac]

(i.e. the "source") is an opinion

Nope, your opinion cannot be the source of a stated fact, try harder or just change your posts to reflect that it is your opinion.

Either you have data on the sex, sexual orientation and socioeconomic levels of the MR membership or you don’t, simple as that, I bet you don’t.

Edit: to reflect my mistake.

 

[yaxomoxay]

There isn't any guarantee in the United States that you can say whatever you want without consequences. There never has been, and there never will be.

Again, agreed. But when people say “free speech” they don’t only mean it on a legal level, and you know it. It’s often meant on a cultural level because it determines the way of life.

 

[ninethirty]

Again, agreed. But when people say “free speech” they don’t only mean it on a legal level, and you know it. It’s often meant on a cultural level because it determines the way of life.

Oh I'm absolutely aware that they're incorrectly using and understanding the concept of free speech.

Regardless of whether or not one chooses to, or simply misunderstands the concept, actions have always had consequences and they always will.

Here's a simple example for anyone not getting it. Try walking up to a dude on the street, and call him the most vulgar thing you can think of. You're free to say it, but you might just get punched in the face for it. And if you do, that person might go to jail.

Actions. Have. Consequences.

 

[JKAussieSkater]

Either you have data on the sex, sexual orientation and socioeconomic levels of the MR membership or you don’t, simple as that, I bet you don’t.

Sexual orientation?

 

[icanhazmac]

Sexual orientation?

You made this claim as fact:

Almost all of the 204 reactions in the post you're quoting are cis-men.

How else could you know that as fact unless you had data on all 204 members that left an emoji reaction? That is an opinion and blanket generalization not a fact.

 

[1@@@]

-

 

[icanhazmac]

Woof. Cis is not about orientation.

Absolutely right, my mistake. Typed before I thought.

 

[ThunderSkunk]

Wow a cartoonish movie quote from one of the most popular films ever made.
O American puritans, shield your eyes lest you be traumatized for life.

 

[DeepWebinar]

They should have fired him for that corny outfit.

 

[icanhazmac]

I've played by the rules, now, as you demanded. But I feel like it wasn't necessary for the believably of my claims in this context.

No you haven't, I asked for citation of your claims that:

1) there's an extraordinarily small user-base of women on the MacRumors forums

Prove it! You cannot tell based on anonymous user ids and avatars, you can guess but you cannot know. As far as the MR poll... I don't think 216 users of 1,086,929 registered users is a good data set.

2) there's an extraordinarily small user-base of non-binary people on the MacRumors forums

Prove it, how could you possibly know?

3) Almost all of the 204 reactions in the post you're quoting are cis-men.

I don't think 216 users of 1,086,929 registered users is a good data set. Also, you have data on all the emoji reactors? You were basing you opinion on the text replies, not those that simply emoted.

No one asked you if women make up 50% of the population but thanks for the data.

 

[I7guy]

[…] guess […]

That’s not how proof works.

 

[icanhazmac]

Those aren’t opinions. They could be true or false but either way, they’re facts.



While you’re reading the dictionary, check out the definitions for fact and opinion sometime

That isn't the dictionary, it is from the MR forum rules.

 

[A MacBook lover]

No you haven't, I asked for citation of your claims that:

1) there's an extraordinarily small user-base of women on the MacRumors forums

Prove it! You cannot tell based on anonymous user ids and avatars, you can guess but you cannot know. As far as the MR poll... I don't think 216 users of 1,086,929 registered users is a good data set.

2) there's an extraordinarily small user-base of non-binary people on the MacRumors forums

Prove it, how could you possibly know?

3) Almost all of the 204 reactions in the post you're quoting are cis-men.

I don't think 216 users of 1,086,929 registered users is a good data set. Also, you have data on all the emoji reactors? You were basing you opinion on the text replies, not those that simply emoted.

No one asked you if women make up 50% of the population but thanks for the data.

wow haha. People on here, right? Good luck!