Apple Protests Call for Third-Party App Stores and Lower Platform Fees in Japan

[gnipgnop]

It doesn't matter. I can buy the game off a complete stranger and give Sony 0% if I so choose.

Apple operate one storefront for multiple devices. If I want to buy a game for my iDevice I have to go through Apple. If I want a game for my PlayStation I can buy from Sony, ebay, Amazon, CDKeys, Gamestop and so on.

There is a massive difference.

You can pay for subscriptions or content on the internet and give Apple 0%. That's how you buy ebooks through Amazon, video streaming through Netflix, music streaming for Spotify or virtual currency for games.

Also, if you want to talk about massive differences, aren't prices significantly higher for games on consoles? I'm not just talking about AAA games that developers don't release on iOS. I'm also talking about indie games that DO release on both consoles and iOS. The price on iOS is usually lower.

 

[RadioHedgeFund]

Considering Apple invented the "smartphone market", I take serious objection with the idea that outsiders want to start regulating it just because Apple did so phenomenally well with it.

But all Apple had to do was be fair and not be so heavy handed with their rules, without all the selective enforcement and hypocrisy, and they could have avoid this entirely. For that, they get what they brought onto themselves.

Palm Treo, HP iPaq, Nokia Communicator....

Its not about regulating because Apple did so well but regulating on behalf of the consumer to increase choice.

 

[Kevin2055]

Apple today hit back at a report from the Japanese government indicating that the company could be hit with new regulation to ensure fair competition in the smartphone operating system market, The Japan Times reports.

The Japanese government's interim report expressed concern over Apple and Google's control of the smartphone operating system market, particularly with regards to pre-installed browser apps, and warned that their policies can damage app providers and businesses. It proposed the introduction of new rules to ban companies from limiting the ability of users to make decisions about how they want to use their devices, with the added benefit of enhancing competition in the market.

The report also took issue with the 15 to 30 percent commission that developers have to pay to Apple for apps and in-app purchases, and the fact that they can only distribute through Apple's own App Store. As a result, it called for OS providers to allow users to be able to utilize third-party app stores and for companies to disclose thorough information about their systems.

The proposed changes aim to "realize fair and equal competition," according to Chief Cabinet Secretary Hirokazu Matsuno. Apple said in a statement "We respectfully disagree with a number of conclusions" in the Japanese government's report, and that it is facing "intense competition in every segment." Apple added that it will continue to "engage constructively with the Japanese government."

Rick VanMeter, Executive Director of the Coalition for App Fairness, commented:The Japanese government will reportedly gather opinions from the public and hold further discussions before compiling a final report on the matter. Even more invasive challenges to Apple's platforms and services are underway in the European Union, where the proposed Digital Markets Act looks to force major changes to the App Store, Messages, FaceTime, third-party browsers, and Siri.

Article Link: Apple Protests Call for Third-Party App Stores and Lower Platform Fees in Japan

Fair competition means if we cannot beat you in business competition, we will beat you in politics.

 

[Sciomar]

Our own government, the US, is working on similar legislation. These US companies also have many offices/employees/customers in these other countries. This isn't a foreign company trying to force themselves into the picture.

That doesn't make it better, more gov regulation is a bad thing. Politicians are far from being experts about tech, I am sure they're getting nice kickbacks from some large developers who aren't willing to invest in designing their own smartphone. Apple is too successful with their platform and it is quickly becoming the defacto device along with android. Why would anyone else want to come offer something alongside them when they can lobby to have the store opened up to them, reward without risk. Or has the iPhone become infrastructure?

 

[Zdigital2015]

What I don't get is why no one is going after the gaming consoles. Hell, imagine being able to play a ps5 game on your switch. Big tech is big tech, regardless of what device or platform it is.

Apple and Google are simply the easiest targets, especially when bureaucrats aren’t getting enough graft (bribes, “donations”, et al.) from the aforementioned companies. If find it interesting that MS pursued this market, had a decent platform in a Windows Phone, yet completely blew it, so now Google and Apple are the monopolists. We truly live in the Upside Down.

 

[C00rDiNaT0r]

You see that disk drive located on the front.....

But can I legally develop and distribute my own game or app that works in PS5's OS, unaltered or modded?

 

[RadioHedgeFund]

You can pay for subscriptions or content on the internet and give Apple 0%. That's how you buy ebooks through Amazon, video streaming through Netflix, music streaming for Spotify or virtual currency for games.

Also, if you want to talk about massive differences, aren't prices significantly higher for games on consoles? I'm not just talking about AAA games that developers don't release on iOS. I'm also talking about indie games that DO release on both consoles and iOS. The price on iOS is usually lower.

Prices are higher on consoles but the quality is also a lot better. There are a lot of premium $10+ games on iOS but many of them are hardly ever on sale nor do they depreciate in value. On a console I can often by a cheaper physical version of a game 6-12 months on from release.

 

[gnipgnop]

Apple disallowing certain categories of apps is just the cherry on the anti-competitive sundae. How about game streaming apps like Stadia and Xbox Cloud gaming? So much for your claim that devs get to choose whether to develop for iOS or not.

That statement shows you don't really understand what anti-competitive means. Apple doesn't allow ANY company to sell porn apps on iOS. That's not anti-competitive. That's just a business choice. So is the stance per game streaming. Streaming through the internet/browser doesn't require Apple to approve of anything. Anyone who wants to offer that type of streaming can do it. Submitting a streaming app to the App Store does require Apple approval. In order to get approval in the latter, games need to be submitted individually and pass review. Google and Microsoft didn't want to do that...which means they need to go the browser route.

 

[gaximus]

Or I could buy an Xbox. Or a Switch. Or a Steamdeck. Or a PC. Or build a PC. And buy my software from Gamestop. or eBay. Or swap games with a friend. Or buy voucher codes from CDKeys. Or Steam. Or the Epic store. Or the Microsoft Store. Or GOG. I can if I so wish set up my own physical store selling games.

On Android and PC I can access innumerable emulators allowing access to an infinite amount of games, most of which cannot be brought new anymore.

On iOS its Apple's way or the highway. I have no choice at all.

With Sony's or Microsoft's or Nintendo's or Switch's way, they still have to test and approve the software, they still get their 30% cut, even if they aren't hosting the software themselves.

Emulators are usually illegal, and its an argument against side loading.

Should have chosen a different platform, everyone knows that its Apple's way or the highway. If you care about choice, then choose Android.

 

[RadioHedgeFund]

Apple and Google are simply the easiest targets, especially when bureaucrats aren’t getting enough graft (bribes, “donations”, et al.) from the aforementioned companies. If find it interesting that MS pursued this market, had a decent platform in a Windows Phone, yet completely blew it, so now Google and Apple are the monopolists. We truly live in the Upside Down.

But again, I have been able to buy my Nintendo software from hundreds of different stores over the last 30 years.

 

[gnipgnop]

Prices are higher on consoles but the quality is also a lot better. There are a lot of premium $10+ games on iOS but many of them are hardly ever on sale nor do they depreciate in value. On a console I can often by a cheaper physical version of a game 6-12 months on from release.

Only for the latest generation consoles. Prior generations like PS4/Xbox One or PS3/Xbox 360 could easily run on iPhones currently at the same quality as when they were originally sold. How many of those console titles are being offered for sale on iOS? Very few. And that's not because Apple won't allow then to be sold on the App Store. It's because the developers choose not to do it.

 

[vipergts2207]

PS5 and Xbox are both general purpose devices , as I stated before in this thread , the fact they are running SW that lets them to exactly what Sony or MS wants you to do is because they decided that's how they want you to use their device.

Xbox can run Windows with ease , as it has a standard X86 APU from AMD , with a standard SSD , standard DRAM , standard PSU , standard display drivers and ICE , Sony is similar and can run Linux if Sony wanted it to run it.

Also Sony and MS aren't selling their product at a loss , the same way Fortnight is not free to play from a business model , you need to think critically before saying stuff like that , if you do , it would be obvious to you that Sony and MS are not losing on selling consoles ..... they just make their money in a different way.

Consoles are general purpose devices now? Just because it's possible doesn't mean it's a practical use case. An ATM can run Doom, so I guess that makes it a gaming system then? Since an ATM can run banking software as well as Doom, can we simply categorize it as a general purpose device as well?

The fact is that 99% of console owners use their console as a gaming device similarly to how 99% of smartphone users use their smartphone as a general purpose device, from playing games, to making calls, shopping on Amazon, and ordering an Uber. Even if folks could use their console to do those things, nobody would when they have their smartphone in their pocket.

 

[user002]

I was led to believe these regulations are all about the Europeans resenting the success of large American tech firms. Weird.

 

[RadioHedgeFund]

With Sony's or Microsoft's or Nintendo's or Switch's way, they still have to test and approve the software, they still get their 30% cut, even if they aren't hosting the software themselves.

Emulators are usually illegal, and its an argument against side loading.

Should have chosen a different platform, everyone knows that its Apple's way or the highway. If you care about choice, then choose Android.

Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo get 0% from my eBay sale/purchase.

Emulators have been around for decades. Nintendo prosecutes ROM sites, not the developers of the 30-year-old zSNES emulator. If that were true devices like the Analog Pocket would be illegal. Its an arguement for sideloading because they are wonderful!

I chose Android for my phone and use an iPad for work. I have a stake in both. The fact that you are advocating the lack of choice as a selling point for iOS speaks volumes.

 

[user002]

I am concerned about platform fees and lock-in with my Sony PlayStation 5. I wonder if Japan is interested in working on that at all.

Sure I can help you out. If you dont like the Playstation's store online offerings, you can always purchase your games at physical retail stores. See? Wasnt that hard.

 

[vipergts2207]

That statement shows you don't really understand what anti-competitive means. Apple doesn't allow ANY company to sell porn apps on iOS. That's not anti-competitive. That's just a business choice. So is the stance per game streaming. Streaming through the internet/browser doesn't require Apple to approve of anything. Anyone who wants to offer that type of streaming can do it. Submitting a streaming app to the App Store does require Apple approval. In order to get approval in the latter, games need to be submitted individually and pass review. Google and Microsoft didn't want to do that...which means they need to go the browser route.

You're so close to getting it. You've acknowledged the artificial, onerous, and one-sided limitations Apple has implemented, now you just need to realize that governments don't believe Apple should have control over those kinds of things. If a developer wants to develop an iOS app and a consumer wants to purchase it, the story should end there.

 

[RadioHedgeFund]

I was led to believe these regulations are all about the Europeans resenting the success of large American tech firms. Weird.

Its about reining in the reach of tech firms, how much data they collect etc whilst siding with the consumer ie the voters.

It is in the best interests of society if we do not trust in behemoth private companies to run the world for us.

You got the satire in Robocop, right?

 

[gnipgnop]

Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo get 0% from my eBay sale/purchase.

Apple gets 0% of an ebook purchase for the Kindle app. The reality is that purchasing subscriptions/content for apps outside of the App Store is entirely viable already.

 

[SoldOnApple]

I wonder if making a version of MacSO that can run on iPhone and iPad would fulfil the obligation to let people install what they want.

 

[gnipgnop]

You're so close to getting it. You've acknowledged the artificial, onerous, and one-sided limitations Apple has implemented, now you just need to realize that governments don't believe Apple should have control over those kinds of things. If a developer wants to develop an iOS app and a consumer wants to purchase it, the story should end there.

Now you're just resorting to making false claims about what I've "acknowledged". That's not much of an argument. The App Store is Apple's IP. They want to control it. They don't want to control the internet because that isn't their IP. Both the App Store and the internet are available on the iPhone. You can download a free app on the App Store (like Spotify, like Netflix, like Kindle) and then pay for subscriptions/content on the internet. You can also view all the porn you want on the internet on your iPhone but Apple is not going to allow porn apps in the App Store.

 

[RadioHedgeFund]

Only for the latest generation consoles. Prior generations like PS4/Xbox One or PS3/Xbox 360 could easily run on iPhones currently at the same quality as when they were originally sold. How many of those console titles are being offered for sale on iOS? Very few. And that's not because Apple won't allow then to be sold on the App Store. It's because the developers choose not to do it.

Its because physical controls will always be superior to a touchscreen. This is just basic design.

But retro gaming is an interesting topic: I can buy said Xbox 360 and a ton of very cheap discs (or download games from the Xbox store as it still works) and play until my heart's content.

If I bought an iPhone 4 and wanted to buy some games for it my options are limited-to-none and whilst the Xbox 360 plays Halo or Fable just as well as it did 15 years ago that iPhone 4 is showing its age. I can download older titles from my purchased list from 12 years back but if I didn't buy them at the time then I am screwed.

On Android though I can sideload older games (provided they even work) or even emulate my old consoles.

 

[jakey rolling]

Can you tell me the difference between an Xbox and a PC ? aside of course from MS saying so ?
Xbox has an AMD x86 APU with a standard set of instructions both For CPU & GPU , it has a standard SSD , standard DRAM , standard display connectors , standard PSU , its a PC.

There is of course no "technical" difference between an Xbox and a PC, other than how they are marketed and what customers expect to gain from them. However, that marketing is a huge difference, because it signals what buyers actually expect when they purchase one.

A console is purchased for entertainment and without any expectation whatsoever that it will function as a general purpose computer. A smartphone, on the other hand, is absolutely marketed as a general purpose computer, and consumers expect it to work as such.

Please keep it technical if you can.

This isn't a technical argument. The only purpose of keeping such an argument "technical" is to satisfy the whims of someone being intentionally obtuse.

 

[DeepIn2U]

Wrong , you can buy PS+ gift cards , but you can no longer (since 2019) buy and download codes from legal vendors anymore for Playstation , if anything you can look at Xbox and say , hey ? this is a PC , not a console !! it has an AMD APU , standard DRAM , standard Nand , standard PCIE , standard connectors , standard PSU , it can run Windows no problem if MS let you , Xbox is a PC that is pre built and crippled by SW , nothing more , it makes MS much more money which is why the peddle it.

And to add specifically I don’t think the NAND has a standard connecter or at least expansion port for the Xbox and PS five expansion for storage is custom.

The other thing that comes to mind is of course it’s not the Xbox itself that makes Microsoft Money no that’s the weather loss or maybe breakeven this year it is the software titles that are unuseable loaded the source may now just come from Microsoft store not necessarily something you download it has built-in browser and install. Things that make you go hmmm.

 

[RadioHedgeFund]

Now you're just resorting to making false claims about what I've "acknowledged". That's not much of an argument. The App Store is Apple's IP. They want to control it. They don't want to control the internet because that isn't their IP. Both the App Store and the internet are available on the iPhone. You can download a free app on the App Store (like Spotify, like Netflix, like Kindle) and then pay for subscriptions/content on the internet.

But Apple also operate the open-ended Mac which offers both solutions.

 

[gnipgnop]

Its because physical controls will always be superior to a touchscreen. This is just basic design.

iOS supports console gaming controllers.