Where is that happening? Or are you just making stuff up?
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Apple Providing U.S. Employees With Up to Four Hours Paid Time Off to Vote in November Election
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Where is that happening? Or are you just making stuff up?
That is absolutely not true. There has been a significant 20+ year history of Russia hacking and interfering with Estonian, Latvian and, to a slightly lesser extent, Lithuanian elections. They cut their “worldwide voting interference” chops in the former soviet republics (especially Latvia) in an attempt to install ethnic Russian puppets into those regions to hinder NATO membership and the E.U., always a major goal of Putin’s. After 2016, Estonia could easily have said, “America, welcome to our club.”
Russia gave independence to these countries, where it could have easily used the army to restore order. Because of that, about a million of Russians suddenly ended up in these 3 countries whose military bloc is aimed against Russia. In case of Lithuania, it got 1/3 of its territory thanks to the USSR. And you think Russia is "interfering and hacking" the elections in these countries for 20 years and failing (but managed to do so in the US)? Great logic.
It's literally happening in this article. You have to tell Apple, your employer you need time off to vote. Which they document so as to pay you for your action. Your supervisor, HR, and anyone else with access to this information will know this prior to deciding how your Apple career progresses.
It's not about IF they do something. It's about the impression of it being possible to occur. It's the same reason we use paper ballots in secure boxes that are monitored by members of every party at all times with a stake in the election until the votes are counted.
I did not know this and you are absolutely correct. I’m surprised I didn’t know—I live in Maryland, one of the states where employers are allowed to require proof of voting. Thanks for the lesson.
Of course it is their choice but it is a way to keep a certain part of the American population away from voting. In a tight election it might even be crustal for the result.
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What is "cheapening" participation? Is an economic sacrifice a requirement for making a valid vote? Does imposing some sort of price/penalty ensure that a vote will be more reasoned?
Not everyone works on Tuesday - some don't work Tuesdays because of their employment schedule. Others are retired, unemployed, or otherwise are free to take the time to vote without losing wages. To level the playing field, should they pay some sort of economic cost so that their vote is more reasoned/valuable?
A nominally democratic society has a choice - give everyone a voice with no barriers and let the chips fall where they may, or take steps to "ensure the quality" of the ballots. Only, what criteria are used to ensure that quality? That will always be the rub.
Yes, philosophically speaking, an educated, reasoning electorate is good for self-government. If we're going to make choices that affect ourselves and others, they ought to be intelligent choices (well, at least people who believe in the value of intelligence prefer intelligent choices). However, we know people don't always make intelligent choices. Regardless of our intelligence, we also make emotional choices. And, of course, nearly all our choices are a mixture of reason and emotion. We're human.
We can't decide whether one person's vote is more or less intelligent. If there was one, incontrovertible "intelligent" choice on the ballot, then it isn't a free and open election. All we do when we talk about intelligent votes is make assumptions about whether we think a person is likely to make an intelligent decision, in our personal opinions.
So I don't question Apple's (or any other company's) willingness to allow its workers to vote on company time - in a democracy everyone ought to be able to cast a ballot with ease. The more, the merrier. Otherwise, it's no longer democracy. The question is why more employers don't do that, regardless of that employer's stated (or unstated) philosophies. I don't see it as "paying employees to vote" - I see it as a contribution to the quality of democracy.
So long as the employer makes no attempt to influence how those employees vote, I don't see a problem. Obviously, paying someone to vote in a particular way (whether it's an employer, political party, or anyone else for that matter) is a different problem, but that can't be separated from the notion of "voting in ones economic interest" - does it really matter whether one is paid in advance to place a vote, or whether one is promised an economic benefit for voting in a particular way?
The notion that there's something wrong with a "curated" workforce is ludicrous. It is in every employer's best interest to select workers who will advance the business. Otherwise, every job opening from bottom to top would be first-come, first-served. Hold a lottery for job applicants, with no resumes or qualifications required. If you're suggesting that Apple somehow "curates" its workforce so that it reflects a single political viewpoint...
Ok, got it. You’re just making stuff up.
which is the DUMBEST thing ever in the US. Having an election on a weekday. In other countries, the election day is on Sunday, which makes everything much easier.
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While working for the fruit stand. I would have a shift that would start at 1:00 or different. Then it would go till 9:00pm. Depending also some take a bus into work, or others drive. Lunch is not enough time to take to get to the poling station vote and then get back to work on time. As with other examples it has taken upwards of 12 hours to vote.... So this year might see the same thing with social distancing, and other elements in place. Great for apple it would also be a great idea to have it not count as a point against any employee if they are late returning to work. If they provide a I voted sticker.
Seems to me voting is always problematic in the states, it should be a day off, all people above a certain
age should have easy acces to voting, why register, I get my voting card automatically as all people eligible to vote get them here.
Your post was perfect, I agreed wholeheartedly, until the above.
Have you been to all countries in the world, how can you tell that the US is the best country in the world?
I tell you a secret, it is not number one, it's probably not a bad place to live, but there are better ones.
Note: I travelled extensively, most on a pushbike, others with a plane, some with a car, I took busses, trains, planes, boats, horse cart amongst other means, been in places few go or even dare to go, I have seen scenery few people ever witnessed.
This Was the good part, well done.
age should have easy acces to voting, why register, I get my voting card automatically as all people eligible to vote get them here.
Your post was perfect, I agreed wholeheartedly, until the above.
Have you been to all countries in the world, how can you tell that the US is the best country in the world?
I tell you a secret, it is not number one, it's probably not a bad place to live, but there are better ones.
Note: I travelled extensively, most on a pushbike, others with a plane, some with a car, I took busses, trains, planes, boats, horse cart amongst other means, been in places few go or even dare to go, I have seen scenery few people ever witnessed.
Voting is your duty as a citizen to the Republic. Brave men and women have fought, sacrificed and died over 245 years to get us as far as we've come today. Freedom isn't free. (It takes folk like you and me...) Honor them, no matter who you are, what party or candidate you support or how you ended up here, by voting on the First Tuesday after a Monday in November. Stand in line (at a safe distance, with a mask, if recommended, and hand sanitizer,) get your sticker, cast your ballot! If you don't know how to vote, ask a friend or your parents or grandparents. Voting expresses the will of the people in the loudest, most unmistakable shout for all politicians to hear: "Keep doing what you're doing." or "Change course now!" Taxes? The Supreme Court? Judicial Appointments? Civil liberties? Power of corporations? Free speech? Freedom of Religion? Internet freedom? Interstate commerce? Mortgage rates? A woman's right to choose vs. Pro-Life? War? National Debt? Your 401K? Car prices? Oil Prices? Food prices? Redistricting? The right to vote, and how to vote, and who can vote? ALL of that, and so much more, is determined by your vote, this November! So VOTE
This Was the good part, well done.
Election Day is mandated by the Constitution to be the first Tuesday following the First Monday of November. It cannot be changed except by Constitutional amendment. That date has been unchanged since 1787, though the 20’th Amendment did change when terms of office start. For instance, up until FDR, the start of a presidential term was March 4. Back in the 1700’s, people traveled by horse and buggy, making commuting very difficult, so the long time between elections was necessary. Because we are now in the age of flight, the Congressional terms were set to start January 3 (in case the Congress needed to vote on the president and Vice President in case no one got the Electoral College majority and/or to validate the decision of the Electoral College) while the presidential term was set to start January 20. A similar amendment would need to be passed to change the date of the election.
No it's not. It's set by an 1845 act of Congress, and codified in 3 USC 1 and 2 USC 7.
The Constitution explicitly leaves the time of the election up to state legislatures and Congress (Article 1 section 4, Article 2 section 1), except for the start date of Congress (Article 1 section 4, changed by the 20th Amendment), and the start of the Presidential term (20th Amendment).
When they wrote the Constitution, there was no telephone, telegram or radio, and news moved so slowly that it didn't really matter that everybody voted on different days. (There is no requirement that Congress be elected on the same day, the only requirement is on presidential electors, not the actual president)
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Thanks. I guess I remembered this wrong. I appreciate the correction.
I'm amazed that this is actually news in 2020. Where I live a polling station is open from 7am until 10pm at night; that would take some unhealthy shift if people can't find the time to attend in person. But, granted stuff happens; so use a postal vote option you can even do that from abroad. Or nominate a friend.
But what really annoys me that major nations in 2020 all around the world still don't allow electronic votes. Why does anyone have to travel to a certain place to do this? It is nuts.
But what really annoys me that major nations in 2020 all around the world still don't allow electronic votes. Why does anyone have to travel to a certain place to do this? It is nuts.
The short answer is that without a paper trail, it's impossible to have a fully verifiable vote, and vote by mail solves the same problem without eliminating the paper trail.
When it comes down to it, if there's any doubt about the security of your electronic system, you can always put a bunch of humans in a room (well, maybe several rooms these days) and have them count votes by hand. When you submit an electronic vote, you literally have no way of knowing with 100% certainty that your vote was even submitted correctly. (And while yes, humans are fallible, it's pretty hard to hide an effort to get enough people to commit felonies to actually influence the outcome of a vote.)
Simply not true on all counts. Just excuses and there are solutions for all objections.
Electronically you can even have an immutable trail. It’s perfect for this and being used every single day already in many use cases.
And ofcourse you can be 100% certain it is submitted. Heck even more so than on paper as it is done now.
The last point is a double ?? Just more far fetched excuses.
Hasn’t Covid told us anything? I mean the whole idea of daily having a big migrate through our commutes to get to some building to then spend x hours, and then do it all over again. Yet we managed just fine when we stopped doing that. Having elections that force people to all go to certain locations just doesn’t make any logical sense when there are much better alternatives on all fronts.
I suspect all democracies in the world work differently than America. In Europe, too, elections are always held at the weekend, so that anyone who wishes to cast their vote in person can do so without effort.
Why this is regulated differently in America, and whoever insists on it can be speculated about... I do not comment on it.
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Election Day in the US: an example to other countries how to not run elections.
Here’s some free advice: Australia do elections much better. I can vote in person 3 weeks before Election Day at any number of pre-polling centres, without ID, and I’m in and out in 15 minutes. On yeah, and our actually Election Day is not on a weekday. Stupid American traditions for $400.
Here’s some free advice: Australia do elections much better. I can vote in person 3 weeks before Election Day at any number of pre-polling centres, without ID, and I’m in and out in 15 minutes. On yeah, and our actually Election Day is not on a weekday. Stupid American traditions for $400.
I remember I was manager at this hell hole office 2 elections ago. The workers rioted because I wouldn't let them take an extended lunch to vote. They all got off at 4pm which gave them AMPLE time to vote. I bet some Apple employees will complain that 4 hours isn't enough time to vote/volunteer to work the polls.
First vs second world.
And at the same time closing shops on the weekend which is widely unheard of in the country.
I love the idea of an electronic vote. However, I absolutely know that in the US, an electronic vote would almost guarantee voter fraud. The system would be gamed. Either from the inside or from the outside.Simply not true on all counts. Just excuses and there are solutions for all objections.
Electronically you can even have an immutable trail. It’s perfect for this and being used every single day already in many use cases.
And ofcourse you can be 100% certain it is submitted. Heck even more so than on paper as it is done now.
The last point is a double ?? Just more far fetched excuses.
as I was saying moderated in 5.4.3.2.1.
Hasn’t Covid told us anything? I mean the whole idea of daily having a big migrate through our commutes to get to some building to then spend x hours, and then do it all over again. Yet we managed just fine when we stopped doing that. Having elections that force people to all go to certain locations just doesn’t make any logical sense when there are much better alternatives on all fronts.
No.
Even the best cryptographically verifiable trail won't protect you from an attack that changes votes before they've actually been encoded, and that's still a single point of failure. Voting is also up to each of the 50 states to implement. Twitter just had a major breach. Do you really think states are going to be able to come up with a secure system for something that happens maybe a couple times every other year? We're not exactly pouring money into voting systems.
This has been echoed repeatedly by security researchers.
The point is not to provide a single attack surface and to increase the visibility of any attack. Mail-in ballots can be verified numerous ways, including ultimately by people. Literally no one will be able to tell you with absolute certainty that your electronic system has not been compromised, and a sufficiently sophisticated attack will leave no trace.
To date, there have been no documented cases of large-scale voter fraud via mail-in ballots. (And what we do know about comes down mostly to people "helping" someone else to fill out their ballot, which is just as much a problem for electronic voting.) Meanwhile, we have essentially an entire field of experts proclaiming that electronic voting in general, and especially remote electronic voting, is a bad idea. The only kind of electronic vote that's secure is one which produces a verifiable, human-readable paper trail.
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How wonderful! Finally, a software and hardware-based system where there's 100% perfection. Which exists nowhere else. Well, maybe gravity, that seems to have a good track record.
Yet every time an obscure bug is revealed in iOS or macOS, or other systems, people here go nuts because there isn't 100% perfection.
And you expect the country's skeptical and non-technical populace to be on-board with your plan, when their financial and other systems are breached daily? As an engineer I'd never be on-board with that.
Paper ballots, mailed in, during a 30 day window. With the ability to do recounts. A great and trustworthy solution that's been proven over the years.
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