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Calm down everyone and check the story update. It appears this was an unintentional glitch, and the movies will be restored to those who purchased them. Can we rewind all the format fanboyism now? I think it's clear there are different benefits to both digital and physical copies.

The update said nothing about a glitch. Everyone is making this out to be apple's problem, like it was a glitch. It wasn't just iTunes, those movies were pulled from other services. It's safe to assume it was a contract issue. They probably realized it's not a big deal to let people access movies they've already purchased (and not worth the bad PR). Don't expect every studio to be this supportive.

Also note the update said nothing about allowing users to stream from iCloud again. Wait and see....
 
*Looks fondly at shelf full of Blu-Rays which cost no more than iTunes downloads, provide a superior image and sound, and can't vaporize into thin air*

Nope. Not feeling too much sympathy. :D

Edit: By the way, what they've done is not theft. People who had the films on their computers didn't lose them. They simply altered a service that they provide (the cloud) as it relates to these films.

Those that got hit by this were not only abandoning physical media (and better picture/sound quality because of it), but were relying on Apple to store their movies for them and not even keeping them on their own hard drive.

Don't feel smug. Bluray allows for Content Revocation. At any time, the CRL for Bluray can be updated, and the instant you load such a disk into your player (or your network-connected player downloads an updated CRL from AACS) some number of previously-working disks will suddenly cease working. It rarely/never happens (I can't find any complaints about it, so I'm guessing it hasn't happened yet), and is much more difficult to effect on the part of Disney than shutting off the download spigot at the various streaming providers, but it is there.

Bluray content is licensed, not owned, just like iTunes/Amazon/etc downloads.
 
I would never "buy" a movie or TV show from one of these services. Rent sure, buy never.

This is worse than pirating. Pirating lawsuits can't prove that a customer "stole" from the rights holder. Removing access from a customer that made a legitimate legal purchase is actual theft.
 
That is a remarkably ****** thing to do by Disney. Particularly without warning or with an offer of a refund. Makes me more grateful that I download my stuff to iTunes and strip the DRM from them.

Its stuff like this that make people leary of going digital. *sigh*

How do you do it? How do you download stuff to iTunes and then strip the DRM?
 
I guess there are two lessons here today:
  • Read the TOS!
  • iTunes Store does NOT guarantee re-downloads.

Customer-hostile terms imo, which is why I stay away.
 
I would never "buy" a movie or TV show from one of these services. Rent sure, buy never.

This is worse than pirating. Pirating lawsuits can't prove that a customer "stole" from the rights holder. Removing access from a customer that made a legitimate legal purchase is actual theft.

I have over 250 movies purchased from iTunes, and besides these two Disney movies, which Apple and Disney already addressed they are correcting, they're all still showing just fine on my iCloud account, ready to play with a click of a button.

iCloud is fine. Backed up by the biggest tech and media service company in the world. No fear here.
 
I don't know about anybody else but I'm having real trouble following the intricacies and moral questions of this issue without the aid of car analogies.
 
This is one of the main reasons that you'll have to pry physical media from my cold dead hands before I'll give it up in favor of digital purchases.
 
Don't feel smug. Bluray allows for Content Revocation. At any time, the CRL for Bluray can be updated, and the instant you load such a disk into your player (or your network-connected player downloads an updated CRL from AACS) some number of previously-working disks will suddenly cease working. It rarely/never happens (I can't find any complaints about it, so I'm guessing it hasn't happened yet), and is much more difficult to effect on the part of Disney than shutting off the download spigot at the various streaming providers, but it is there.

Bluray content is licensed, not owned, just like iTunes/Amazon/etc downloads.
Actually, it is the Blu-ray player that can be prevented from playing the movies, the data is not whipped off the Blu-ray disc. Still, the only slight need for that would have been to prevent HD quality from being output through analog cables (Component). There really even isn't a need for this as most new Blu-ray players don't even have component outputs. But for the older players that do have component output and display the 1080i image through there, future discs can have a ICT that would reduce the image to 480p over component and a firmware update could disable that in the player as well. They haven't used it though.

The data will not be erased from the disc.
 
Oh man, i'm so %#*% ...

Come on Disney/Pixar, i like renting, but you are making my choice difficult. Just shows, even Apple's own renting model doesn't always work.
 
As expected and as I've said before, Apple and Disney will make sure people can trust in the cloud. I was never worried that my movies would disappear completely from my library. I knew this would be just a temporary thing.

And the whole Disney Vault predicament shouldn't affect already purchased content.

People here just need to calm down. :)
Here's a trick when reading contract language: the contract terms are the only defense you have against this happening, and the contract says that Apple takes no responsibility in the case that it does therefore it will happen some day.

Public opinion is nothing compared to being sued for breach of contract by a million people.

Maybe it will disappear because the content provider pulls it (and this proves they can), or because a government bans it, or because Apple doesn't invest enough in data protection, or some company in the long chain necessary to get you your data in a viewable form goes bankrupt or is bought by another party with different ideas, or for any number of reasons.

If there isn't contract language ensuring your access to the data there is no financial incentive to ensure your access to the data in the face of the growing cost of maintaining the system.
 
Here's a trick when reading contract language: the contract terms are the only defense you have against this happening, and the contract says that Apple takes no responsibility in the case that it does therefore it will happen some day.

Public opinion is nothing compared to being sued for breach of contract by a million people.

Maybe it will disappear because the content provider pulls it (and this proves they can), or because a government bans it, or because Apple doesn't invest enough in data protection, or some company in the long chain necessary to get you your data in a viewable form goes bankrupt or is bought by another party with different ideas, or for any number of reasons.

If there isn't contract language ensuring your access to the data there is no financial incentive to ensure your access to the data in the face of the growing cost of maintaining the system.

Ok.

But it hasn't happened yet to a single one of my movies since movies in iCloud began in 2011.

And content providers already have pulled movies and TV shows from the store. All the time in fact. But it has never been pulled from my iCloud account. Ever.

Unlike a lot of people in this thread, I actually do trust very much in iCloud. I trust that Apple will always work with content providers to uphold the integrity of iCloud and to make sure customers don't get screwed. Just like they are doing right now with Disney. I mean, why wouldn't they? iCloud is a massive service that is crucial to Apple's business so I think the last thing they want are customers running away scared.
 
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I don't know about anybody else but I'm having real trouble following the intricacies and moral questions of this issue without the aid of car analogies.

lol. :D I think you're almost certainly joking (successfully) but let's have a go anyway:

Um… You bought a car (let's call it a 'KING LION' ;)) from a car showroom (let's call them 'PAPLE' ;)), and then some time afterwards when you went to drive your KING LION car, it turns out the manufacturer (let's call them 'SIDNEY' ;)) came and drove your car away (or instructed PAPLE remove it at their request). If you had put the car in your garage, neither SIDNEY or PAPLE could have got to it, but you sadly didn't read the small-print that meant they were legally allowed to do it.

...and as per the main article's UPDATE: It seems that SIDNEY have said they will work with PAPLE to ensure all customers who bought a KING LION have their car returned. Still, it's scary that if you don't park your KING LION in a garage SIDNEY or any other er… car manufacturer might decide to come and drive it away whenever they feel like it!
 
Yes, let me store my 27 HD iTunes movies on my 32GB iPad. Or my AppleTV. Thanks for that helpful tip.

Assuming you own or have access to a computer, a 2TB external drive runs about $80. On that you can store about 1,000+ SD movies, or about 500+ HD movies. Assuming you can "only" download 500 movies for that $80, that's an additional cost of 16 cents per movie to store it.

With your 27-movie library, you'll have plenty of room on an external drive, and the net cost is about $3. So, get a smaller disk at $50 (newegg.com, Samsung 500GB portable external drive) and shave that per-movie cost to $2, and still have room for another 80 movies at no additional cost.

Come on, people. Local storage is dirt cheap, and hardly difficult.
 
Ok.

But it hasn't happened yet to a single one of my movies since movies in iCloud began in 2011.

And content providers already have pulled movies and TV shows from the store. All the time in fact. But it has never been pulled from my iCloud account. Ever.

Not be negative, because I know Apple bends over backwards for their customers...but these icloud contracts have an expiration date. 3 years? 5 years? Not sure but iCloud has only been around a few years. There is a good chance at some point your collection will effected by a studio who decides they don't want to renew. If you don't mind being gimped out of some movies when let's say Universal decides to go exclusive to UltraViolet at the close of their iTunes contract, that's totally up to you. Just don't fool yourself into a false sense of security.

All of my purchases are stored locally and backed up to time machine.
 
The update said nothing about a glitch. Everyone is making this out to be apple's problem, like it was a glitch. It wasn't just iTunes, those movies were pulled from other services. It's safe to assume it was a contract issue. They probably realized it's not a big deal to let people access movies they've already purchased (and not worth the bad PR). Don't expect every studio to be this supportive.

Also note the update said nothing about allowing users to stream from iCloud again. Wait and see....

Did you click the link in the update? Because it says exactly what you say it doesn't say.

We heard back from Disney about that issue. According to a spokesperson, “The Lion King” is just one of the movie titles currently unavailable for streaming. By contrast, “Remember the Titans” will become available tomorrow, Oct. 25.

The spokesperson also noted that they don’t pull content that has already been purchased in the iTunes Store — even if that content is no longer available for new purchases.

Disney was not aware of this issue until seeing the original 9to5Mac report, and our followup. Since that time, they are working with Apple to resolve whatever issues do exist, to ensure that purchased content is once again available for streaming and download purposes.

So yes, it sounds like an unintentional glitch. I am aware that this could be PR, but I'll give them the benefit of the doubt considering the speed of the response and the complete lack of evidence that this was something other than a glitch.
 
How can they pull content that's been paid for? This is why I don't buy movies from iTunes or anywhere else as a download. :mad: I consider this THEFT and expect a class-action suit to be filed.

The formula is simple: I give you money for something you have; you give that something to me to own. If you take it back from me (especially without my knowledge), I expect you to give me my money back. Otherwise, it's called theft and there's laws for that.

What kind of world are we going to live when when companies let you buy stuff and they take it back. What is this? I give you money for nothing?

Again, I refuse to buy movies from downloaded sources for this reason alone. Ok, reason #2 is that the prices are too high.

Here, Here.

Whats more scary, and very much how companies and governments work these days, is if this hadn't been brought into public view the people that had paid for an item would've had it taken off them and that would be it. It seems Disney is only now working with apple to make sure these people still get access to their paid item, now that they look bad.

Im sure someone has read the small print somewhere, but i think im correct in saying that when you purchase an item on itunes, it technically isn't yours, you're just "renting" it from Apple. The whole itunes/music/films is probably the biggest swindle of the technical age, making people (by making is ridiculously easy) to switch from buying a DVD or CD from a bricks and mortar store to the online "you don't own it" mode of purchasing.
 
way too much trouble, just pop in a disc and watch the movie. my kids even like the previews and trailers like me

It's no trouble at all if you've got a decent setup.

Disks break, get lost, etc. Having it all on a media server means you can:

- Have more than 1 device watching a program
- Convert for any device on the fly
- Use it as a networked time machine backup

It's a heck of a lot more useful when you can have one person watching a movie in one room on a TV, another watching a TV show on their iPad, and another out somewhere watching something on their iPhone via 3G.
 
This is worse than pirating. Pirating lawsuits can't prove that a customer "stole" from the rights holder. Removing access from a customer that made a legitimate legal purchase is actual theft.
Deception, maybe, but not theft. The contract you agreed to said this is legal behavior. Maybe you didn't read the contract, or maybe you didn't believe what you read, but that isn't their fault.
Burying the "we might yank your ****" on page 128 of the terms of service but we are going to advertise that's totally not the case might cover Apple's ass legally, but it certainly doesn't do much to endear them to even their most loyal of fanboi, me.
Here's the thing-- there's nothing forcing you to accept a contract you haven't read.

If the contract language is too long or too difficult to read, or is spread among a dozen different places on a hidden website and changes daily, I either don't work with that service or I simply assume I have no rights and any utility I get is an accident.

If companies started losing business because their customers started refusing to buy services they didn't understand then this problem would go away quickly.
 
Assuming you own or have access to a computer, a 2TB external drive runs about $80. On that you can store about 1,000+ SD movies, or about 500+ HD movies. Assuming you can "only" download 500 movies for that $80, that's an additional cost of 16 cents per movie to store it.

With your 27-movie library, you'll have plenty of room on an external drive, and the net cost is about $3. So, get a smaller disk at $50 (newegg.com, Samsung 500GB portable external drive) and shave that per-movie cost to $2, and still have room for another 80 movies at no additional cost.

Come on, people. Local storage is dirt cheap, and hardly difficult.

Great! Since it's so cheap, I'll be looking forward to you contacting me to put the $80 in my PayPal account.
 
way too much trouble, just pop in a disc and watch the movie. my kids even like the previews and trailers like me

You like trailers attached to movies you bought 5 years ago where "Coming Soon…" means 4 year old movies? It's also fun being forced to watch those over and over again. You know what's even less trouble than popping in a disc (which means pulling the disc out of the case each time and storing it properly for easy retrieval)? Not getting off the couch, switching to the Apple TV, and hitting play. Or taking your entire collection anywhere with internet in a device the size of a hockey puck.

Obviously there are some growing pains with digital media that may or may not be resolved, but if they can be, there's no denying the massive improvement in convenience.
 
Did you click the link in the update? Because it says exactly what you say it doesn't say.

So yes, it sounds like an unintentional glitch. I am aware that this could be PR, but I'll give them the benefit of the doubt considering the speed of the response and the complete lack of evidence that this was something other than a glitch.

Yes I DID read the article :D
Perhaps unintentional, but not a glitch. Scroll past the PR mumbo jumbo and read:
Initially reported as a glitch by 9to5Mac, this issue could be anything but. As reader Kevin Shain rightly notes, Amazon has also also pulled the "The Lion King" from the company’s Instant Video service.

I bet you dollars to donuts amazon users are unable to stream lion king from amazon cloud. I admit I could be wrong on this, but that's how I interpret it.
 
This here is proof positive of why DRM is a bad idea. This is how you encourage piracy, not prevent it. If a movie I paid money for is suddenly no longer available to me because the content owner decided to revoke my license, then I'm not going to buy a new copy from their own service they're setting up—I'm going to hop on over to a torrent site and download what was taken from me.

Yes, it's part of the license agreement we agreed to, but it shouldn't be.
 
And they cheered the removal of the optical disc drives because that was "yesterday's technology" even though the quality of picture & sound were superior to what could be purchased via iTunes (so that Apple could take it's cut)...

Not sure who your "they" is, but I for one continue to cheer for the removal of optical drives because external optical drives are cheap, easy to share amongst computers, and don't need to travel with me the majority of the time.

I still buy most of my movies on DVD (don't see any reason to pay exorbitant blurry prices for the enhanced blurry resolution, although my external drive does support ripping blur ays as well). They go from the packaging to the BR drive hooked up to our main computer when they get home (sometimes we directly watch them off disk the first time, but I try to send them to the archives first), get ripped, catalogued, and stored on our NAS, then get played whenever we want without the annoying FBI warnings, unstoppable ads, etc.

Funny thing is, in that same house we have two laptops with DVD drives and the main iMac has a DVD drive as well. All the built-in drives have crapped the bed due to old age and no longer function. So, I went from finding the one computer in the house with a still-functional DVD drive (and then copying the files over to the server) to just plugging in the easily-replaced $50 bluray drive into the computer where I want to do the ripping/archiving.

And they rationalized paying just as much for iMacs "thinner thin" even after the functionality of that drive was removed because an ever-thinner desktop is far more important than making that desktop as functional and utility-rich as possible...

Moving functionality which is seldom used or needed at most once per household to an external drive is a clear win. Yes, it allows for a thinner desktop which makes for pretty pictures, but more importantly it makes for a computer with one fewer breakable part.

And they attacked those who found fault with removing the drive but not lowering the price for a less functional "all-in-one," beating them down and down because whatever Apple chooses or endorses is the ONE right way for all...

... reducing the price, by the $25 the drives might cost them were they purchasing them not in bulk? I'm not sure if Apple raised their profit margins by that $25 when the drive-less computers shipped, but I suspect that that decreased cost was instead transferred to other new / more expensive parts like the screen.

And they ignored the concept of media "lifetime license" and it's limitations by deeming physical discs obsolete (even though you can fully own, sell and give away the latter but can't do any of that with the former)

Lifetime license went away with DVD. Bluray has no such concept. Nor do streaming or download services (obviously). In practical terms, Bluray content has not suffered from content revocations, but neither have downloaded files. This is a streaming-only issue, quite separate from the plastic disk issue.

And they called upon everyone to buy into the cloud- iCloud in particular- suggesting that we don't need additional storage in our iDevices when we can just stream everything we need (which was music to the ears of the wireless bandwidth toll masters who had set both time-based and hard data cap tiers)...

And, in the end, they learned that they actually owned NONE of their media and that the owners could yank it right out of the cloud (and their streaming access) at any point in time with no notice and no refund.

I somewhat agree with your point here. There is no reason to be downloading everything from the cloud every time you watch it. However, I see a lot more mention of "available anywhere" than "you don't have to buy local storage" in the marketing materials. And, for the most part, cloud-stored files are available everywhere. So long as you are also locally storing them, you don't end up being at the whim of the content owners except for when you are relying on the "available anywhere" convenience (which isn't something you can even do with a blurry or dvd disk; it is only available where that disk is).

And though all of this was an Apple-engineered deal, they went with the usual and found the content owners- Disney in this case- entirely at fault for doing this to them... and our beloved Apple.

Not sure why Apple is to blame here. You are reading a lot more into the vision they are promoting than what they are actually promoting.

iTunes = convenience but not any sense of real ownership. Discs are the last of real ownership of entertainment media. Choose wisely.

False dichotomy. iTunes offers just as much ownership as disks, so long as you follow the instructions on the package and keep track of your downloaded files. You are talking about streaming-only, which is not something iTunes forces you to do (although other providers such as Amazon do ... which is why I would never buy a movie from Amazon's service). There are multiple ways to get your entertainment, all with tradeoffs.
 
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