Apple really blew it with my warranty service

Discussion in 'iPod' started by mosx, Nov 19, 2010.

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  1. mosx macrumors 65816

    Mar 3, 2007
    So my 7 week old iPod nano died. Same stuck sleep/wake button that seems to be affecting a lot of people.

    I went to the Apple store to have it replaced. Halfway through the process the guy says they have no stock of it and it can't be swapped. I'd have to mail it in. He assures me that the mail in service would give me a new unit the same as he would have.

    So I set up the repair. Send it in. It takes two days longer than it should have because the person at the call center typed the serial number in wrong. Lovely.

    I get the replacement. The person thats been helping me informs me its a "service unit" and refurbished, not new. Great.

    I paid for a new unit. I specifically bought a new unit because I wanted it new, not refurbished. On top of that, I did mail in service because I was assured that I would get a new replacement. So this is, in a sense, a bait and and switch.

    Now I have more fun to deal with getting them to honor their employees word and obey the law regarding bait and switch with merchandise.

    After this, the swelling battery in my MacBook they refused to replace even though its a manufacturer defect and a design flaw, and all of the other experiences I've had with Apple, I'm done. No more Apple products for me. I won't even buy apps from the app store any more.
  2. And1ss macrumors 6502a


    Oct 20, 2009
    Warranty replacements are usually done with what Apple calls "service" units. These are technically new. You never get a retail version from a warranty service. In this case, your were misinformed, but that's how Apple replaces defective units.

    Other than that, may I ask the point of this thread? Just to rant?
  3. Saturdays macrumors member


    Nov 18, 2010
    Somewhere in USA
    rant thread, but i'll provide some info that might help you out, and some that will just piss you off.

    If you want things done, be calm and ask to speak to a supervisor when calling Apple Care. Ask Apple to look at logs of your calls/visits and notes from when you did. They usually record notes on what transversed when you visit or call, and they have access to it all when you call usually.

    Apple often replaces parts serviced with refurbished/serviced parts. However these parts are fully tested and made sure to be in working condition. For instance, if your dvd drive on a macbook died, you get a refurbished dvd. If your iPod breaks they replace with a refurbished one. Generally most things with Apple work like that and other companies usually do the same thing.

    Anyway keep trying to get word to a supervisor if in face the conversation was documented he should be able to pull it up.

    Good Luck
  4. macking104 macrumors 6502


    Jan 14, 2003
    California, USA
    Did you read your Apple warranty and the sales policies? You accepted those terms and conditions the second you purchased the iPod-- whether at a retail store, on the phone, or online... Many Apple stores will be nice and replace a 2 month old product with new. Other stores would probably say that you need to abide by product warranty for repair/replacement...
  5. mosx thread starter macrumors 65816

    Mar 3, 2007
    Don't get me started on that crap.

    First, I didn't buy it from Apple. I bought it at Frys. Second, it doesn't say ANYWHERE on the box that this device is subject to those terms and using it means you agree to them. It doesn't even mention the fact that iTunes pops up a license agreement for using the iPod software. The only thing mentioned on the box is that iTunes is subject to a license agreement, nothing else.

    And finally, again, the Apple Store employee assured me (and I have a witness willing to testify to that fact) that I would be receiving a new retail unit the same way I would have if they had stock in store that day.

    I can understand a refurbished unit if the iPod was close to the end of the warranty period. But it was only 7 weeks old, 3 weeks passed the return window.

    I paid for new. I was assured I would get new. I want new or a pro-rated refund for the difference between new and refurbished.

    I would prefer to have my money back entirely, seeing as how these things are destined to fail.

    As far as other things go, I've actually had the optical drive in my Mac (and PC) die and both Apple and HP replaced them with new parts, judging on the build date, serial numbers, and other factors.

    Refurbished would be fine if Apple wants to refund me the difference in cost.
  6. wordoflife macrumors 604


    Jul 6, 2009
    You never know, they could have just fixed your iPod and sent it back to you. That qualifies as refurbished I guess.
  7. AllieNeko macrumors 65816

    Sep 25, 2003
    Seriously dude, lose the attitude. I say that in the nicest way. If I worked for Apple, I'd have no desire to work with you at all based on how you sound on the forums. I'd be polite, have a smile, and do the minimum my job required me to do. In life, if you want steller customer service, you need to be a steller customer.

    Second, yes, you bought a new unit - two months ago. An Apple refurb (and actually MANY of the service units are new, just without retail packaging) is as good as new. It has a new battery, a new case, and all other parts test/fixed. It's better than if they fixed your unit, since it gets a battery with no wear and a screen with no scratches. The warranty allows them to do this, and it's a more than fair swap.

    Third, you mention it's "destined to fail" - well, of course it is! NOTHING on this earth lasts. Apple products are generally on the higher end of build quality though. They last longer than the competition, most of the time.

    Fourth, before you call me a fanboy, I'm TICKED at how Apple treated me with the MacBook Pro I'm typing on now that was, in many ways, a lemon. They left me on my own because of one little dent in the aluminum case from a small drop that had nothing to do with my problem. You can't void a warranty for physical damage that they can't prove is the problem, but they did. It's like saying if you get in a fender bender, the car company won't fix your engine. Before any true Apple fanboys claim a computer is somehow different - it's not. And I know plenty about computer repair, there is nothing I could've damaged to cause my symptoms which were widely reported issues with early 13" MBPs and certain hard drives. A logic board replacement fixed the issue for most people. I fixed it with a different hard drive since Apple illegally voided my warranty for no reason. I have an extremely sour taste for Apple customer service now. I'd rather avoid Apple in the future, but I'm not going to use inferior products that don't do what I need just to spite Apple.

    So trust me, I know what it means to have Apple wrong you on the warranty thing. And you didn't. They got you a working product in better condition than what you sent in. Quickly and efficiently. That's how warranty service SHOULD be :)
  8. mosx thread starter macrumors 65816

    Mar 3, 2007
    I have an attitude because of all of the run ins I've had with Apple customer support.

    I've had to send my MacBook out to AppleCare about 9 times total. Why so many times? Because the repair center sent the system back in worse shape, either cosmetically or functionally, than I sent it out in.

    One time I sent out a plastic MacBook because the case had started to crack around the vents and turn yellow around the vent because of Apple's high temperatures and poor cooling system designs. When it came back to me, not only did it look like it had been dragged across asphalt, but the casing around the opening for the optical drive had somehow been warped to the point where I couldn't put a disc in.

    Because of their repair center screwing things up all the time, Apple replaced my Mac twice. It wasn't because I was unhappy. It was because of a combination of Apple's poor build quality and their repair center being unable to do the job without screwing things up even worse than they were before.

    Even when I finally got my third system, things were only good for a year or so. After about a year, Apple issue a firmware update for the optical drive that killed it. Had to send it out to get the drive replaced. When I got it back the bottom case looked like it had a screw driver pounded almost all the way through. So I had to make the hour long journey to the Apple store for them to replace that piece of the case.

    And finally, the battery in my MacBook started to swell up and start cutting off randomly during use. This is a known defect with those batteries. But Apple told me to go pound sand in a more polite way.

    So I have every reason to be upset with Apple and have an attitude. Because of them, I spent a combined total of more than two months without a computer. I've had to spend a significant amount of money on gas because of them. And I've been screwed over by them.

    No, its not fair. Refurbished units sell cheaper than new. Again, I paid for new. It doesn't matter that it was two months ago. I paid for new, I deserve new. If they want to give me refurbished AFTER assuring me that I would get a new replacement unit then they need to refund me the difference. In cash. No Apple store credit.

    Those last two sentences make me laugh. Apple products are NOT built better than the competition. Case in point being my MacBook issues as well as my iPhone 4. I love my iPhone 4, and iPhones are the only Apple product to never give me problems. But I shouldn't have to have it in a case thats built for protection just because Apple chooses style over functionality.

    But, getting back on topic, do a google search for the 6th generation iPod nano. The same problem I had, the sleep/wake button dying, is VERY widespread with A LOT of people having this problem. With as many people who have had issues, its easy to say its destined to fail. And whats worse is all of those people were able to go into the Apple store and get it exchanged for a NEW unit.

    If you live in the US you can sue Apple under the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act. You should actually be able to sue them in small claims. I know here in California, thanks to the state consumer protection laws and Magnuson-Moss, I'd be able to sue them in small claims and I'm almost guaranteed a win.

    And now that jailbreaking is legal, this would apply to any iOS users who have jailbroken and are denied warranty service. Sue under Magnuson-Moss and your own states consumer protection laws.

    When it comes to computers, this sort of statement is just mind boggling. How are competitors products inferior? Aside from battery life, competing brands make far better products. True quad core processors in notebooks, GPUs that are far more powerful than anything offered in any shipping Mac (other than expensive upgrades for the Mac Pro), blu-ray readers, multi-card readers, eSATA, USB 3, etc. And these are all in systems that cost significantly less than Apple products.

    In the one case I can think of where Apple costs less, its only by $50. That would be the base Mac mini compared to the Dell Zino HD. The Dell is about the same size as the Mac mini, but taller. And for $50 more you get a blu-ray reader, quad core processor, blu-ray reader, significantly better GPU, etc.

    Owning an iPhone, iPad, and various iPods, I can make the same arguments about those products and their competitors as well. After this experience, I'm done buying Apple products. The situation with the iPad helped with that decision too. The iPad should have shipped with iOS 4. It should have had 512MB of RAM instead of 256. It should have had FaceTime with dual cameras. Jobs knew all of that was coming with iPhone 4 but decided to hold it out of the iPad for sake of pushing iPhone 3GS sales up until the iPhone 4 release, pushing sales of the iPhone 4, and attempting to get early adopters to buy a second iPad a year later when it finally shipped with those features.

    No, they screwed me over. Again. I paid twice as much for a product as I should have only to have it die due to poor build quality, and now they're trying to push a used product on me when I paid for new.
  9. SkippyThorson, Nov 21, 2010
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2010

    SkippyThorson macrumors 65816


    Jul 22, 2007
    Utica, NY
    So regardless of how people try to give you advice, you're here solely to complain. You've made your point.

    Seeing that nothing anyone says can make you happy, I guess there's no help left for you. Go get a Dell at Best Buy, and enjoy all Windows offers.


    So, after 9 run-ins with AppleCare, 3 different MacBooks, an iPhone 4, an iPad, and multiple iPods, only NOW have you decided you're done with Apple? What took so long? They apparently haven't been that bad to you, since you're the one that decided to buy all those things in the first place.

    I'm going to seriously ask you the same question I asked my computer-killing friends. Would a cheaply pieced-together plastic toy from Dell, HP or anyone else have done better? If an Apple laptop gives you this many problems, then imagine what the cheaper-built things would be like.

    That's a laugh. YOUR MacBook(s) sum(s) up ALL of Apple? There's a reason that Dells and HPs cost a fraction of what Macs do. You got the short end of a few sticks. Some people have rotten luck. I must have gotten the opposite of yours. I've had 0 major issues. Ever. I even got a cracked iPhone screen replaced that was my fault because I got a nice person.

    Everything isn't perfect. I have 3 PPC computers that are rock solid. My girlfriend has had a rocky relationship with her white plastic MacBook. Not every single thing can be perfect 100% of the time. Sounds like this is the first time you've learned that.
  10. mosx thread starter macrumors 65816

    Mar 3, 2007
    The point of my post is to show people what Apple customer service is really like, so they can make their own decisions appropriately.

    I'm too intelligent to buy a system at a big box store. I can build it myself.

    However, at least a Dell would let me watch my blu-ray discs and play modern games at modern resolutions. Oh, even better, that Dell can be UPGRADED beyond a RAM or HDD upgrade, which is required out of the box for nearly all Apple computers.

    Good job posting without knowing all of the facts.

    I've already sworn off Apple's computers. A long time ago.

    Build quality, prices that are 2-3x what they should be, and low specs mean I won't be buying another Apple computer.

    iPods I never had any issues with, other than the 3G nano having a tilted screen.

    iPhones I've never had issues with either, other than no option for contract free service.

    iPad I didn't have an issue with until the iPhone 4 came out and it had all of these things the iPad should have had. Couldn't return my iPad at that point, and Apple takes away my right of first sale, so I can't sell the apps I buy from the app store.

    You honestly believe Macs are built better? Look at the plastic MacBooks. For years they had issues with cracking around the vents, cracking on the top case, and cracking along the bottom.

    The new plastic MacBooks have issues with the lid cracking around the hinges.

    Metal Mac notebooks have had issues with scratching, denting, and with the previous MBP/PowerBook design, warping from heat due to poor cooling design. The titanium PowerBooks were known for rusting!

    Let's not forget the iBook G3 and G4 motherboard issues, where some European governments got involved and forced Apple to repair or replace them.

    Would you like to talk about the iMac screen issues?

    How about the late 2008 MacBook and MacBook Pro unibody systems having issues with swelling batteries?

    The funny thing is, I have a 3 year old HP. It's made out of plastic. It outlived my first MacBook, the first replacement, and its still going strong alongside the second replacement MacBook, the 2008 unibody MacBook that has needed repairs and a new battery. It runs significantly cooler than any of my MacBooks have and it even has dedicated graphics, despite costing several hundred less than the MacBook did.

    Being made out of metal doesn't automatically make a product "built better" than others. Especially when you're using hair thin aluminum for the main casing. My HP may be made out of plastic, you can feel that it is every bit as strong as the Mac is.

    Not just my MacBook. The Mac of every single person I have ever known to own a Mac. In fact, the last person I knew that was an Apple fangirl finally had a change of heart after her MacBook died for the fourth time, this time outside of her 3 year AppleCare warranty.

    It amazes me that diehard Apple fans think its perfectly acceptable to buy something, be required to buy an extended warranty, and continually deal with system repairs. That is somehow a "good experience". While the rest of the world realizes that if you buy something, other than "consumable parts" (like parts on a car, or a HDD or optical drive), it shouldn't need repaired or die for a very long time.

    HP and Dell cost significantly less than Apple because they don't have that sort of following. They can't sell significantly underpowered hardware for more than their competitors sell high end hardware and have their fans buy it. HP and Dell have to compete in the real world.

    I mean, look at Apple's prices. Look at the $999 MacBook. Core 2 Duo 2.4GHz (still? Really?) 2GB of RAM, 250GB HDD, GeForce 320m, 13" screen. Over at Newegg, I can get a 15.6" Lenovo, QUAD core, 8 thread, Core i7 1.6GHz, 4GB of RAM, 500GB HDD, Radeon 5730, etc. for $849. Thats more power than the $2,000 MacBook Pro for $1,150 less. If I go to that same $2,000 price range I can get an 18.4" system, 6GB of RAM, 500GB HDD, 64GB SSD, true quad core, 8 thread, Core i7 1.73GHz, blu-ray reader, and GeForce GTX 460M. In fact, I can get that same 18.4" system without the SSD and blu-ray reader and a Core i5 and GTX 460M for $1,179.

    So this whole story about others cutting corners simply isn't true. Its a flat out lie.

    The reality of the matter is that Apple significantly overcharges for their product. And they can get away with it because of their fan base and current "good" brand name. No other company in the industry would be able to get away with charging $2,000 for a dual core processor and a low-end GPU. No other company would be able to get away with charging $1,000 for integrated graphics, a 4 year old CPU, and 2GB of RAM. But Apple can and they do it.
  11. wordoflife macrumors 604


    Jul 6, 2009
    In regard to what you posted above about pricing and age of stuff.... (i didn't feel like quoting it).

    Most people find "You get what you pay for" when it comes to Apple stuff. If you don't like it, then don't buy it. Theres no need to rant about it.
    I like it, so I buy it. Others like it, so they buy it. Others don't like it, they don't buy it. Pretty simple.
  12. mosx thread starter macrumors 65816

    Mar 3, 2007
    Actually, I would say most people feel they don't get what they pay for with Apple products. Thats why worldwide Mac market share is still very low single digits.

    In the past, when I would actually recommend Apple products, everyone from technically challenged to those that cared more about style and design than functionality would look at the specs of a PC versus a Mac and say the same thing "but this PC costs way less and I get a lot more!".

    You absolutely don't get what you pay for with a Mac. For $2,000 what do you get in a MacBook Pro? An expensive fashion accessory that isn't anywhere near as powerful, capable, or useful as PCs costing less than half as much. For $1,000, what do you get? A system that is only as powerful as what you can get at Walmart for half as much, and significantly less powerful than a PC costing the same amount.

    Right now, the only two products that Apple sells that are priced appropriately and you get your moneys worth for would be the iPhone 4 and iPod touch. Though with the iPhone 4, you have to take into account service costs. And thats a whole other debate there.

    The fact of the matter is that you don't get what you pay for with nearly all Apple products. They're shiny fashion accessories that focus more on luring you in with pretty design than actually being powerful tools that can help you be productive or make your life easier or more enjoyable.

    Apple truly has become the Bose of computing. Overpriced products that are poorly built, living on a brand name that will diminish with time if they don't get their act together.

    Apple might be the largest technology company in the world right now. But thats only because of two reasons. One being a hyper inflated stock price. The other being the fact that their hardware is built the cheapest way possible and sold for several times more than its actually worth. The Apple bubble will burst at some point in the future.
  13. wirelessmacuser macrumors 68000


    Dec 20, 2009
    Here are some neutral thoughts based solely on the printed policies & terms of Apple, Lenovo, HP, Sony, et al. An aggregate of companies in the computer industry. Four companies (plus a few more) that I've bought laptops from in the last decade. In addition in every case I've bought several from each company with the exception of my two favorites, Apple as fav #1 & Lenovo as number #2, in which case I've purchased _many_ from those two.

    It's not just Apple, but an industry practice to replace a problem unit with a "Service or Refurbished" unit. So that's fact number one. Second is that I've found them to be every bit as good as new stock. Yes, I'm not fond of the practice but it is what it is.

    Third, I've found that when I either call in, or in the case of Apple, visit a store. If I'm pleasant, have a smile and a greeting for the person that is there to help me, I've _always enjoyed great service. They've even allowed me an override and given me a new unit because I was pleasant and did not jump on them. Anyone can do this. I've seen it happen. Their is no substitute for leaving anger out of the conversation. It's a wasted emotion that only makes things worse.
  14. mosx thread starter macrumors 65816

    Mar 3, 2007
    What evidence would that be? That Apple's fans are happy paying 2-3x more than they should for the same hardware? That they somehow think $2800 for a dual core notebook with low-end graphics is somehow a good deal?

    That they're perfectly happy with the fact that they have to buy an extended warranty with a computer and EXPECT to use it multiple times throughout the systems life?

    Like I said before, only in the world of Apple is it acceptable for hardware to fail and a company to have to repair it regularly.

    Dell used to do what Apple does now. Sell low quality failing hardware and replace it whenever a customer has a problem. What happened to Dell? Brand loyalty plummeted and they've been sued multiple times as a result. What do Apple fans do in the same situation? Smile and take it because they've somehow convinced themselves that what they're getting is better.

    Record sales of Macs? Well, when you're at the bottom the only way to go is UP. And like I said, there are people out there that are more concerned with fashion accessories than computers being actual tools. Which leads to the next point..

    Apple's record earnings are the result of them overcharging for products and people paying for them. Not because their products are better because Apple is doing something right, other than screwing people over.

    There is no way any logically thinking person could say a $2,000 dual core Core i5 MacBook Pro is better than a $850 PC that has a significantly more powerful CPU, more RAM, more HDD space, more powerful GPU than any shipping Mac, etc.

    When was the last time Consumer Reports had any credibility? Let's not forget that they're the major source of nonsense behind "antennagate"

    Isn't the whole point of buying stocks to earn money?

    As I said, I was assured by the Apple store employee that I would be receiving a NEW replacement through mail-in service the same way I would have in store.

    Not only that, but in the past when I needed service from HP, I received new parts with build dates that were within days of myself ordering them and they shipped from the countries they were made in.

    As I said before, I did visit the Apple store. Its a 3 hour round trip there and back. I got there and the employee was in the process of swapping the iPod out with a new one when he saw they had no stock. He assured me that I would be getting a new one if I did mail-in service, so I agreed to do it that way. That is the ONLY reason I agreed to do it that way.

    And, again, as I said before, I visited the Apple store and had to go to the UPS store after spending time on the phone setting up the mail-in repair. I literally lost an entire day because of Apple's poor build quality. And what are they doing as a result? Trying to pawn off a refurbished unit for the same cost as new.
  15. aristobrat, Nov 21, 2010
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2010

    aristobrat macrumors G5

    Oct 14, 2005
    Bait and switch?

    You seem to be under the impression that if you had waited around for the Genius Bar to get replacements in, you would have been issued a brand-new one, but instead you were "tricked" to mail your iPod in, and because you mailed it in, you were mailed a refurbished one back.

    That impression is false. Replacements are replacements. Some are brand-new, but the vast majority of them are refurbished. Having your repair done at the Genius Bar vs. AppleCare doesn't change your odds one bit in regards to what you're going to receive. Genius Bars do not only issue brand-new replacements.

    Apple's refurbs comes with a 100% brand-new exterior shell and a 100% brand-new battery. You couldn't visually distinguish it from a brand new one. And as you experienced, getting a "retail new" unit is hardly any guarantee that its quality is perfect.

    The employee you dealt with gave you bad information. You should call back the store and speak to a manager so the employee can be corrected.
  16. wordoflife macrumors 604


    Jul 6, 2009
    Cool, whats your source? Give some factual information, because otherwise, it doesn't really matter what you say when you speak for a whole.

    I disagree. There are many reasons why people don't buy a Mac.

    Macs are reliable. A Mac laptop from 2003-04 is still good today.
    Also, do you think your the smartest person in the world? Mac users arent stupid. They don't buy computers just for looks.

    For $1000 bucks, I got a
    -thin laptop
    -excellent battery (in terms of battery life and longevity)
    -runs cool
    -has OS X (the main reason for buying an Apple computer. People who buy Macs aren't idiots. They value OS X and are willing to pay for it)
    - superior build quality

    Hell, theres too many to list. My Macbook Pro is the best laptop ive ever used and it has things i want that other companies don't have

    Don't even get started with this.

    That's what you think. Not everyone is buying their computer for looks, if you didn't know that. Sorry if you did.

    I don't think that Apple products are poorly built. You've probably never owned anything but an Apple product if you say that.

    Like all products, there are faults. Don't expect everything to be perfect.

    I don't even know what the hell this is about. Either way, people buy their products because they like them. They don't do a background analysis of a company and buy accordingly ... which is what you seem to do.

    There is a reason I bolded what I wrote in my last post. If you don't like their products, don't buy them.
    If you value specs, sure, go for something else. If you value software, then go for something else. Only you can decide what specs or software you want, and you can narrow down what you prefer in a computer.
    Honestly, what is your point? everyone has different tastes/opinions.
  17. mosx thread starter macrumors 65816

    Mar 3, 2007
    Do I have to repeat myself again?

    The Genius, if you can call them that, specifically told me that I would be receiving a new unit in the store. When he started the swap process I asked him if it would be brand new or refurbished. He said brand new. When he saw there was no stock and suggested mail-in or him ordering, I asked if mail-in would still give me a brand new unit, not refurbished, he said yes.

    Again, the person helping me specifically stated I would be getting a brand new replacement. Whether it happened in store or mail-in.

    Anything with Apple is not guaranteed to be perfect!

    However, I paid for new. I want new.

    I don't care about correcting the employee. I paid $168 for a device, after taxes, that should have been priced more about $75. I want what i paid for or a refund.

    Have an iPhone 4. Needed something small for active use.

    Look at sales. Macs are still single digits and Android is taking over iOS.

    Including COST and the fact that you get significantly less hardware, less capable hardware, and almost no upgrade path.

    How? A 2003-2004 iBook would have had a G4 800MHz, 256MB of RAM (limited to just over 1GB upgrade), a 30GB HDD, a CD writer, and a Radeon 9200 32MB. And it would have sold for $1100. A PowerBook from 2003-2004 would have had a G4 1GHz, 256MB of RAM (upgradeable to 2GB), a CD writer with a DVD writer being an extremely expensive upgrade, and a 60GB HDD. And it would have cost $2,000.

    The fact that anything from Apple pre-2006 uses PPC architecture means it is obsolete. Apple has abandon support for the architecture and none of their new software releases even support that architecture any more. Before you know it, 3rd party browsers won't even support PPC.

    Let's not forget the upgrade paths for those systems. The last generation of iBook was only upgradeable to 1.5GB. Good luck upgrading the HDD, unless you like performing full system surgery on it.

    What did you get in 2003/2004 from a PC? $1300 would have gotten you an Athlon 64 2GHz or Pentium M 2GHz, Radeon Mobile 9700 with 128MB of RAM, DVD writer standard, 60GB standard, 512GB to 1GB of RAM, etc.

    Well, you certainly don't buy a Mac for horsepower. Not when a $1500 desktop system comes with a dual core Core i3.

    Thin? So? Thin also means poor cooling system, which means a hotter system on your lap and lower quality internal components that run cooler.

    And so what about thin? When my laptop leaves the house its in a case. I'm not carrying it by its own body.

    Core 2 Duo and GeForce 320M? Fast in 2006 maybe. $1,000 in the PC world will get you a dedicated GPU faster than anything in any shipping Mac as well as a true quad core 8 thread Core i7.

    Soft metals that scratch, bend, warp, etc. aren't exactly "Sturdy".

    The only positive thing about Apple's systems would be the battery life. However, that comes as a result of having extremely low end hardware, by modern standards. Theres also a lot of shortcuts taken to get to that point, like down clocking the GPU a lot. However, my HP in 2007 had better battery life than my Mac in 2008 thanks to double capacity batteries and user replaceable batteries. I had 10 hours of battery life across two batteries while Macs didn't even have 4 hours real world.

    Longevity? Thats debatable. The batteries on my HP are still original and still reporting 98% capacity. My MacBook's battery was not even a year and a half old when it swelled up and died while supposedly at 98% health itself and less than 200 cycles.

    Runs cool? Depends on your definition of cool. My HP has a Merom based Core 2 Duo at 2GHz and my Mac has a Penryn Core 2 Duo at 2GHz. Technically, the Penryn should run cooler and use less energy. Oh the HP has a dedicated nvidia GPU as well. The HP runs an average 30-40F cooler under load and idle and while playing games compared to the Mac, thanks to Apple's poor cooling design and focus on being thin rather than useful.

    I bought my first Mac nearly 4 years ago for OS X. In that four years, going from Tiger to Snow Leopard now, I see absolutely no benefit in OS X compared to Windows. None. I can think of a lot of things that Windows can do that OS X can't, like proper video decoding and blu-ray playback. But I honestly cannot think of a single thing that OS X can do that Windows cannot. I can think of things Windows does better. But I can't think of anything OS X does better.

    Don't make me laugh. There is NOTHING better about the build quality of a Mac compared to a PC. The plastic Macs have all kinds of issues with cracking, discoloration, and other failures.

    Go and compare the MacBook "Pro" to the actual professional lines from HP and Dell. Those things are built like tanks. You don't have to worry about setting it down hard denting it, or heat warping it. Or a non-user replaceable battery swelling up.

    Those systems also tend to come with 3 year warranties as standard as well as on-site service and accidental damage coverage.

    Explain to me how a $999 plastic MacBook that will crack and discolor and comes with a 4 year old processor architecture, 2GB of RAM, and integrated graphics is somehow priced appropriately against a $999 PC that will have a quad core 8 thread CPU, dedicated graphics, 2-3x the RAM, blu-ray, larger screens, etc.

    Well, why would you honestly buy a Mac? I can think of no good reason other than developing iOS apps. In that case, a Mac mini will be just fine.

    I've owned several notebook PCs. Including that $1300 one I mentioned earlier.

    When I pay 2-3x what a product is actually worth, I expect it to be perfect.

    Again, to show people what Apple really does when you have an issue.
  18. santaliqueur macrumors 6502a

    Aug 7, 2007
    Apple makes more than plastic notebooks, right? Just asking, since that's the only machine you seem willing to mention.

    You're right, and everyone else who opposes you is wrong. Will you go away now?
  19. flyfish29 macrumors 68020


    Feb 4, 2003
    New HAMpshire
    In my 20 years of owning Apple products I have had nothing but fantastic service from my Apple warranties.

    I had a performa back in the day which had an issue, was fixed right up in the store where I bought it and took several days and no cost to me.

    I had a hard drive in my current MBP go bad- the local store fixed it right up in three days- no cost!

    I had an iMac which was shipped to me as a refurbished but obviously didn't get refurbished. They shipped another refurb out that say day and told me to just ship mine back as soon as I could. No cost to me, only a little hassle for a few days being without my new I mean refurb. iMac.

    I used Apple live support customer service the other day for Mobile Me support and the guy stayed on the live support chat session for 28 minutes working on my problem and solved my problem (and solved another one while he was at it.)

    So while Apple's computers have not been perfect and they have made their mistakes, I am one of those Consumer Reports readers who said their customer service is #1!!

    Clearly the OP has terrible luck when it comes to consumer products and their reliability!!
  20. mosx thread starter macrumors 65816

    Mar 3, 2007
    You obviously didn't read all of my posts then. I mentioned plenty. Yellow iMac screens, rusting titanium PowerBooks, warping PowerBooks/MacBook Pros, battery swelling, easily scratched/dented/warped current generation MacBook Pros.

    This is the point I made earlier. Somehow Apple fans think its great that they have to take their system in and leave it for days. A well built system will not need to be taken in.

    Wow, a WHOLE three days? Again, why is it such a good thing that you had to do it to begin with and it took so long? A PC manufacturer would have sent me the HDD overnight and I could have popped it in myself and been up and running two days before you.

    Heh, and this points out one of the many bad things about Apple products. If something goes wrong in a computer, you have to live without the entire thing for days. But a desktop PC? You can be back up and running within hours.
  21. blackburn macrumors 6502a


    Feb 16, 2010
    Where Judas lost it's boots.
    A pc manufacturer (hp) even got my laptop worse.
    HDD failed (bought a new one, warranty didn't cover 3rd party damage (yeah right)).
    Laptop failed, new logic board, under warranty. Laptop all scratched (hp said that wasn't their fault).
    Logic board failed again. Out of warranty. 900eur machine -> trash

    And those so called profissional laptops are expensive as hell, and they are heavy. I've bought an macbook (they are way to expensive comparing to regular pc's, it's true) because it's light and it runs way more cooler than my old hp. Now forget about performance.
    If you want to have the latest gimmicks forget apple.
    My macbook is in for repairs. Hopping to have a better service like I had with an ipod nano 2Gen (hanged a lot, got my money back

    NOT dealing with windows and it's crazy madness of windows update and calling ms for activating products = priceless. Even compiling files I had problems (like permission denied). I deleted files and ms windows just would make them reaper (exe / zip files). So YMMV
  22. mosx thread starter macrumors 65816

    Mar 3, 2007
    Apple would have done the same thing as far as denying service out of warranty.

    HP would have given you a new HDD, so I don't know about that.

    And in my experience, HP just didn't get the repairs right because the person who set up the repair kept doing it wrong. My Macs came back looking like they had been dragged across the asphalt. My HP just came back not fixed with a couple of minor scuffs. Nothing in the league of Apple's belt sander repairs. Or warped case repairs that block the optical drive.

    No more expensive than a MacBook Pro of the same screen size.

    Heavy? Computer goes in a bag that goes on your back. How is 6 pounds heavy these days when laptops used to weigh twice that 10 years ago.

    Why do people seem to equate less fan noise with running cooler? The Core 2 Duo 2GHz Penryn in my MacBook is idling at 142F/61c. The Core 2 Duo 2GHz Merom in my HP is idling at 89F/31c. Thats a very significant difference. My HP runs significantly cooler.

    What madness of updates? I have to update my Mac just as often as my PC. If I do a fresh install of Snow Leopard right now, theres nearly 2GB worth of updates waiting for me. With Windows its less than half that much.

    I've never had to call MS to activate Windows. I type in the number and hit activate in Windows and it does so over the internet. It's done. Thats it. Been that way from XP through Vista now to Windows 7.

    User error.

    Also user error.
  23. santaliqueur macrumors 6502a

    Aug 7, 2007
    So the OP continues to hang onto his Apple products, only to be able to complain about them in the forums?

    Easily warped current generation MBPs? I want some of what you're smoking. Even if you don't like the components or OS, the build is more solid than any other machine out there.

    Mr. OP, why don't you rid yourself of all your Apple products? They hold excellent resale value, and as you say, you could pick up much more computing power for your dollar. What's holding you back? The attention you are getting at these forums? I'm surprised we are feeding you here. Usually people like you are ignored.
  24. gnasher729 macrumors P6


    Nov 25, 2005
    From this and from many other posts of yours on MacRumors, I get the impression that you are quite a confrontational person. And it seems that you haven't learned yet that in many situations, being confrontational doesn't get you the results that you want. What also doesn't help is making claims like this "bait and switch" which is obvious nonsense, and will surely convince anyone that has the pleasure to deal with you to do their best to _not_ help you if there is any way they can avoid it. Some people get swollen batteries replaced without problems, others don't. You should look in the mirror and ask yourself why you were in the "others" category.

    Just have a look at the responses in this thread. The same situation, described in different words, would have got you sympathy, support, perhaps help. Instead you got attacked, got the advise to sell your Macs and not bother people on this site anymore. I tell you, this is not coincidence. If you go in for a fight, you get a fight. If that is what you want, you sadly succeeded. If you want results, you have to change your strategy.
  25. blackburn macrumors 6502a


    Feb 16, 2010
    Where Judas lost it's boots.
    My hp idled at 70ºC, so my macbook at 37ºC certainly is way cooler than the hp crapbook that I owned before. I've got my warranty voided when I swap the lcd panel that the hp support scratched.

    Try reinstalling windows a few times. Or office. And not user error. I've had it with pc's. In programming courses they always gave trouble to anyone who tried to use them. And it's not a user error. Go google. Many people share the same people.
    At least in mac os x I can install an combo update and I don't have to loose that much time.

    Go call others stupid. But I've been servicing windows machines for years. I get paid to repair the crap that ms does. So don't tell me that's user error.

    Everybody knows that apple is expensive. Get over it. They sell expensive machines that have trouble like all the others. And when my hp laptop broke I've had to buy an eee pc to use in university because I had to wait 2 weeks to swap a motherboard.

    Of course everybody wants premium service from apple since they are expensive. But it depends on your luck. I've had sony / hp / asus / dell / toshiba for repairs. And hardrives fail. Apple ones aren't special.

    If you where complaining that imacs overheat and they shouldn't you would be right. Not defending crap books. Good luck with that one.

    Windows 7 clean install with nvidia drivers turns off my lcd every-time that I insert an usb pen drive. So what? To bad that ms doesn't control the hardware or the drivers. They signed an bugged driver.
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