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Apple Refocusing Final Cut Pro? Jobs says "Next Release Will Be Awesome"

GOOD.

Final Cut Pro seems like a program from 1993. It really needs a complete redesign.

When Steve said that Adobe were the last company to move from Carbon to Cocoa I thought to myself "That's not true, Apple WILL be the last company to do it when they rewrite Final Cut Pro".
 
odedia said:
GOOD.

Final Cut Pro seems like a program from 1993. It really needs a complete redesign.

When Steve said that Adobe were the last company to move from Carbon to Cocoa I thought to myself "That's not true, Apple WILL be the last company to do it when they rewrite Final Cut Pro".
Click to expand...

Fully agree wholeheartedly with this comment. I have used iMovie08 and iMovie09 and the latter really is excellent for the common or garden video thusiast like yours truly. However after trying to move from iMovie08 to FCE it was like trying to move from First Aider to Brain Surgeon level .. talk about impenetrable and hyper-user-unfriendly... so much so I gave up on the concept. Then iMovie09 came out. Suddenly features I really wanted like Snap To Beats, Cutaway, Greenscreening were usable and written for those who havent dedicated their lives to a life of fluorescent lighting and locked doors..in other words folks who DO have a life as well as video editing as a hobby.
So all I can say is best of luck to them... the fact that FCE sales compared to iLife Sales speaks volumes of how desirable the concept of elitisim for the sake of it over practicality shows that people arent prepared to cough up the sponduliks for a coffee table program box that people say "Oooh ... you must be clever if you can understand Final Cut Express, then?" any more.
I am looking forward to the next iMovie ... iMovie10? But if this is the reincarnation then all I can say is more power to Jobs' elbow/s.

And... to show that iMovie09 isnt exactly iMovie08 in its limitations ... go here to view MY efforts with it ...the later stuff clearly shows how 09 trounced 08 and should not be compared to it any more and is clearly a cheap plug for my YouTube channel too (Oh, what a giveaway!) ;)http://www.youtube.com/user/TheFartGallery
 
odedia said:
GOOD.

Final Cut Pro seems like a program from 1993. It really needs a complete redesign.

When Steve said that Adobe were the last company to move from Carbon to Cocoa I thought to myself "That's not true, Apple WILL be the last company to do it when they rewrite Final Cut Pro".
Click to expand...

Every single professional high end software is only taking small steps when it comes to UI modification. You want to keep the work flow the same and minimise the eye andy saving the cycles where they do some actual good.
 
BruceEBonus said:
Fully agree wholeheartedly with this comment. I have used iMovie08 and iMovie09 and the latter really is excellent for the common or garden video thusiast like yours truly. However after trying to move from iMovie08 to FCE it was like trying to move from First Aider to Brain Surgeon level .. talk about impenetrable and hyper-user-unfriendly... so much so I gave up on the concept. Then iMovie09 came out. Suddenly features I really wanted like Snap To Beats, Cutaway, Greenscreening were usable and written for those who havent dedicated their lives to a life of fluorescent lighting and locked doors..in other words folks who DO have a life as well as video editing as a hobby.
So all I can say is best of luck to them... the fact that FCE sales compared to iLife Sales speaks volumes of how desirable the concept of elitisim for the sake of it over practicality shows that people arent prepared to cough up the sponduliks for a coffee table program box that people say "Oooh ... you must be clever if you can understand Final Cut Express, then?" any more.
I am looking forward to the next iMovie ... iMovie10? But if this is the reincarnation then all I can say is more power to Jobs' elbow/s.

And... to show that iMovie09 isnt exactly iMovie08 in its limitations ... go here to view MY efforts with it ...the later stuff clearly shows how 09 trounced 08 and should not be compared to it any more and is clearly a cheap plug for my YouTube channel too (Oh, what a giveaway!) ;)
Click to expand...

Dear Sir,

Final Cut and especially Final Cut Pro have nothing to do with iMovie, past or present. FC is prosumer program for video enthusiasts who might get compensation for their work. FCP is for pros who get paid and make their living with with it. iMovie is basic consumer toy for anyone. FCP or FC follow the UI conventions of online editing. Spend four years in film school and you get it.
 
Pure speculation article and that would make absolutely no sense for apple now that part of hollywood and some big production houses has adopted/are adopting final cut. Maybe they will make the ui more accessible but that would be only a good thing, it does not have to mean that any of the functionality or features would be stripped away..

It feels like most have no idea how important the pro segment is for apple even if it isnt mega profitable, they would be cutting their own leg off by starting to downgrade/kill it :rolleyes:
 
oh great

The douche bag who destroyed iMovie HD and gave us iMovie 08 is in charge. I suddenly feel like punching someone.
 
This thread can't be good for Randy Ubillos' ego...
Seriously, cut the guy some slack. None of you know him or the circumstances behind iMovie 08. Do you really think he is the sole reason for the design changes to the program? Blame the company, not a random guy. And also, blame the company after a faulty product is released, not before you know anything about it.
 
BruceEBonus said:
Fully agree wholeheartedly with this comment. I have used iMovie08 and iMovie09 and the latter really is excellent for the common or garden video thusiast like yours truly. However after trying to move from iMovie08 to FCE it was like trying to move from First Aider to Brain Surgeon level .. talk about impenetrable and hyper-user-unfriendly... so much so I gave up on the concept. Then iMovie09 came out. Suddenly features I really wanted like Snap To Beats, Cutaway, Greenscreening were usable and written for those who havent dedicated their lives to a life of fluorescent lighting and locked doors..in other words folks who DO have a life as well as video editing as a hobby.
So all I can say is best of luck to them... the fact that FCE sales compared to iLife Sales speaks volumes of how desirable the concept of elitisim for the sake of it over practicality shows that people arent prepared to cough up the sponduliks for a coffee table program box that people say "Oooh ... you must be clever if you can understand Final Cut Express, then?" any more.
I am looking forward to the next iMovie ... iMovie10? But if this is the reincarnation then all I can say is more power to Jobs' elbow/s.

And... to show that iMovie09 isnt exactly iMovie08 in its limitations ... go here to view MY efforts with it ...the later stuff clearly shows how 09 trounced 08 and should not be compared to it any more and is clearly a cheap plug for my YouTube channel too (Oh, what a giveaway!) ;)http://www.youtube.com/user/TheFartGallery
Click to expand...

I'm no pro video editor. But if I were, and if The Fart Gallery was any indication as to the possible future of my work, I would not feel reassured. :)
 
As an editor I'm very glad to see that editing has become available to everyone last couple of years.

I'm a big Avid fan myself and was glad to see some changes going around. Avid had to put a lot more effort in their software to compete against final cut. I never was a big final cut fan, but was forced to learn it, because small production houses were only running that. The big post production companies were still running Avid. And as an editor it seemed that you were more 'old skool' if you were an Avid editor and seemed more trustworthy.
As of last year I see a shift happening once again.

A LOT of final cut editors entered the market because of final cut running on all the macs. A lot of clients were lost by the other editors, because at first final cut editors and their equipment were a lot cheaper than the Avid editors. And as the software itself, there was finally a normal way for data-based workflows! We had to cut RED/SI2K material on final cut because it was the only software really supporting it and making a decent workflow for Avid was a pain in the ass and has caused me some nights overtime.

Nowadays I see a lot of clients back on relying on Avid again. Avid was kicked from their EXTREMELY lazy asses couple of years ago and were forced to make changes. The foremost problem was the data cameras.
I loved final cut for plugging in my XDCAM disc, open up the plugin from Sony and convert it to quicktimes for in final cut. But then came the first new revolution in data workflows within offline editing: AMA (Avid Media Access) tool. Oh my god, converting to quicktimes, or files for Avid were no longer necessary. I was a bit skeptical at first, but I plugged in an external harddrive, opened up the tool and opening the folder that had the raw camera material. I could start cutting IMMEDIATLY. No more converting! Plug your disc in, start cutting.
In the new, soon to be released version of Avid, we can even use this tool to cut native RED files and finally a normal way to cut quicktime files. There will even be a 'mode' that resembles how cutting works in final cut. They listened to the users and pretty much changed EVERYTHING the user wanted them to change!

I know a lot of good editors that cut on final cut that are now looking for courses to learn to use Avid. And even the smaller companies are now buying Avid as well, because it now also runs on small macbooks and can use cheap I/O boxes with the new version.

It looks as if the days of final cut are over within the high-end market (although feature films were almost all cut on Avid anyway, I never used final cut for those) and everyone is falling back to Avid. But we should be VERY thankful for final cut for changing the market this much, or else Avid would still be sitting there on their lazy asses doing nothing. Final cut kicked Avid in the butt and showed them there was a different approach to offline editing. Too bad final cut never further developed their software in terms of new workflows, everyone still remember the RED debacle? So it is outrun by the company they tried to defy.

But I think it's nice they will make final cut more for the mainstream people, it's great that everyone can edit nowadays. I do think it's lame they abandon the professional market, because of people that heavily rely on final cut and now have to learn other software and buy new hardware. But for the normal consumers it's great! But always remember, just because you can go to an art-store and buy a box of great drawing pencils, doesn't mean you can immediatly draw and sell yourself as a professional drawing artist. Editing is an artform that takes just as much time to develop and master as any other artform. And in the end, software doesn't matter, telling a good story in a good way does.

At may seem as I praise Avid and bash on Final Cut, but I love both packages for their strengths and there are occasions I rather cut on final cut than avid. I didn't have any intention to start an all out flame-war.
 
StefSSU said:
I'm no pro video editor. But if I were, and if The Fart Gallery was any indication as to the possible future of my work, I would not feel reassured. :)
Click to expand...

You cheeky sod! Clearly you are not a pro video editor ... because only then would you appreciate that after objectively appraising my own 'past work' using your professional eye .. that indeed ... I clearly wasnt a pro video editor either ... dammit .. that didnt go very well, readers! :mad:
 
StefSSU said:
This thread can't be good for Randy Ubillos' ego...
Seriously, cut the guy some slack. None of you know him or the circumstances behind iMovie 08. Do you really think he is the sole reason for the design changes to the program? Blame the company, not a random guy. And also, blame the company after a faulty product is released, not before you know anything about it.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry but I really had to take a look at iMovie 08 and 09 since I've never really used them. However, I use FCP very very much. Regarding iMovie 08 Randy Ubillo deserves a severe punishment. iMovie is such a lousy program and the UI and logic of is just insane when compared with other online edit software. Compared to iMovie HD its just mind blowing how effectively a developer can ruin a program.
 
Hopefully, this doesn't attract those people who make really stupid movies that are posted to YouTube. Some might find it strange that Steve doesn't want cross compilers for iPhone apps since they'll make inferior apps, but making a prosumer version of Final Cut is OK? I know it's different, but there are enough similarities, IMO.

Also, I agree with those that say 64-bit, multi-threaded & OpenCL/Grand Central!
 
BruceEBonus said:
You cheeky sod! Clearly you are not a pro video editor ... because only then would you appreciate that after objectively appraising my own 'past work' using your professional eye .. that indeed ... I clearly wasnt a pro video editor either ... dammit .. that didnt go very well, readers! :mad:
Click to expand...

haha, yes cheeky :p
I have to admit, my "professional eye" only scoured part of a single video, as my internet connection is rather slow. In any case, better than any youtube videos I have up...
 
guzhogi said:
Hopefully, this doesn't attract those people who make really stupid movies that are posted to YouTube. Some might find it strange that Steve doesn't want cross compilers for iPhone apps since they'll make inferior apps, but making a prosumer version of Final Cut is OK? I know it's different, but there are enough similarities, IMO.

Also, I agree with those that say 64-bit, multi-threaded & OpenCL/Grand Central!
Click to expand...

I would love for FCP to actually use all my cores, all my threads, and my graphics processor when it needs to render. The speed increase will be probably 3-4x as fast as what is happening now.

It should also be able to do more of this in the background as well.
 
Roboin said:
Nowadays I see a lot of clients back on relying on Avid again.
Click to expand...

No worries about a flame war. Full-time and freelance cutters don't have the time or inclination. Those that praise iMovie and want FCP to be like iMovie might flame you though ;)

But the truth is that a lot of clients didn't really leave the Avid camp. Most of the clients I have worked with don't even care what I cut the piece on, just as long as it's polish and to a set standard.

I agree with you, I'd rather cut on FCP as well, but I will never go so far into FCP that I forget how to use Avid, Premier, Media 100. I hope Apple does a smashing job on the next Final Cut, it's LONG overdue.
 
StefSSU said:
haha, yes cheeky :p
I have to admit, my "professional eye" only scoured part of a single video, as my internet connection is rather slow. In any case, better than any youtube videos I have up...
Click to expand...

I know you were speaking tongue in cheek.. and even if you are only 18 thats understandable... anyway - I dont profess to be in any way 'professional' but considering I have zero past experience and thats the result after just over a year's self teaching. Or ... is it better to have a bevy of elitist pseudo intellectuals who 'think' theyre Pro Editors who own FCE on the bookshelf and dont really use it ... or open up the fascinating hobby to the 'masses' by making its interface more human-approachable instead of the dated one that exist now.. and lets admit it, readers .. it IS like something more Windows than Mac ...

And another thing ... have you noticed .. the real video editors always encourage accessiblity for us 'mortals' by welcoming the changes towards 'dumbing down' .. only the 'wannabes' who if they were as clever as they think they are - would be very clever indeed - are the sniffy inverse-snobs who would like to keep their 'special hobby' to themselves than share it with the 'scum' ... like wot I am an' that.

Fact is ... it doesnt HAVE to be 'alienware' to be good ... it can still have a 'commoner's interface' and still actually do the same job. Its only when they do a iMovie08 .. remove the main features at the expense of usability that it goes wrong.

iMovie09 got it right. They still kept the iMovie08 basic program for Joe Public but for those of us who wanted the 'advanced' features .. you could turn them on and off in Preferences. Best of both worlds. Sorted. Cheers! ;)
 
darthraige said:
Great. This next release is gonna be stupid. Just let the consumers stick with iMovie. Let the Pros handle FCP.
Click to expand...

There is no info on what Apple is changing. There are some features in iMovie that would be nice to have in Final Cut Pro.

Aperture 3 was a great release (minus all the bugs), so lets give Apple a chance to set what they come up with before we crucify them.

I, like most, have a laundry list of things FCP needs, here are some:

(1) Multi-Core / Multi-Thread Support for all processes
(2) Open CL support
(3) 64-Bit Cocoa Rewrite
(4) Interface Upgrades
(5) Native AVCHD Support
(6) Background Processes for rendering

Compressor:
(1) Tagging of iTunes info that can be embedded in the file (I use Subler, but it would be nice for this to occur as it encodes).
(2) Quality to be on par with what Handbrake does
(3) Share with Compressor needs to actually work over a Cluster, rather than having to send Compressor a separate .MOV

I don't think I will switch back to Avid, but I am seriously going to look at Media Composer 5 when it comes out. Looks to be an amazing update.
 
darthraige said:
Great. This next release is gonna be stupid. Just let the consumers stick with iMovie. Let the Pros handle FCP.
Click to expand...

Let the Pros do what?!

Do you mean prostitutes, prosumers or just pros as the C2D unibody with glossy screen is a 'Pro' machine?

The whole argument is about Apple dumbing down another piece of software that is not suitable for serious work anymore.

I think with video editing, the test is whether something is broadcast quality (or at least that's what I would think).
 
Digital Skunk said:
No worries about a flame war. Full-time and freelance cutters don't have the time or inclination. Those that praise iMovie and want FCP to be like iMovie might flame you though ;)

But the truth is that a lot of clients didn't really leave the Avid camp. Most of the clients I have worked with don't even care what I cut the piece on, just as long as it's polish and to a set standard.

I agree with you, I'd rather cut on FCP as well, but I will never go so far into FCP that I forget how to use Avid, Premier, Media 100. I hope Apple does a smashing job on the next Final Cut, it's LONG overdue.
Click to expand...

It's true that normally clients don't realy care about on what software it is cut, but what did happen here was that production companies stopped going to post production houses, and just made small room in their own company, threw in a mac with final cut, and they were done and starting 'cutting themselves, everyone can edit!'. I had a client once that asked if my avid project could work under final cut, because he still wanted to change things about a commercial we were doing, but didn't want to pay a day more in our company and wanted to change it on his laptop at his own company.

That being said, I also have to add that those companies are coming back from that way of working, and I now actually see old fashioned post production companies coming back more and starting to act as the production companies! Shooting their own commercials, so the world is changing around again.

On the other hand, the clients that like working with you hire you anyway, and if you say you rather cut on final cut or avid, they make that happen for you, because they hire you for your 'art', they don't hire you to act as a 'button-presser' (although some clients do..).

If you have your own set build up, it's up to you anyway if they just hire you and your set.
 
odedia said:
GOOD.

Final Cut Pro seems like a program from 1993. It really needs a complete redesign.

When Steve said that Adobe were the last company to move from Carbon to Cocoa I thought to myself "That's not true, Apple WILL be the last company to do it when they rewrite Final Cut Pro".
Click to expand...
This. Every time I open Final Cut Pro I feel like I'm back in the Classic Mac OS days. The UI is horribly outdated.
 
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