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Apple Refocusing Final Cut Pro? Jobs says "Next Release Will Be Awesome"
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I sometimes feel the same about Pro Tools/Logic, if they could somehow combine the best elements of both apps I'd be so happy. But for both sets of users I'm not sure it would be a good thing, as the competition between both platforms should ideally help create competition, an actual choice and keep both sets of development teams on their toes.
Just take a look at the strides with Logic 9 and Pro Tools 8, two aging apps that have been brought kicking and screaming somewhat into the 21st century, although I think Abelton Live, Reaper and other more modern DAWS have helped with that.
I think everyone fully agree with the aspect of learning curve. When I use a version of professional software I'm happy when I even don't know the version number without either trying to use new features or just checking the version.
No offense, but nobody is supposed to teach anyone on this thread.
That was uncalled for. People who use the software are talking about it. Doesn't make anyone "pleb" (in case you think "pleb" is belittling or something)
How about you just start with this and omit the rest:
Initially, after reading the article, I was a bit concerned. Generally, when you want to make something to suit a large number of people, there are sacrifices to be made. But someone posted this article and I shut up:
http://www.philiphodgetts.com/2010/05/18/why-apple-insider-couldnt-be-more-wrong/
LOL...medication my friend medication.
These forums have become an embarrassment. Going through page after page or forgettable posts becomes really tedious. I guess if I wanted to learn illogical thought process and how to be passive aggressive then these rants would be good.
Appleinsider whiffed on Phenomenon and they whiffed on Final Cut Extreme and they whiffed on the RED camera (they once said RED was 200k)
I'm convinced they have no accurate intel on Final Cut Pro's development. According to Phil Hodgett's excellent rebuttal Randy Ubillos is back leading the team coming from the Aperture (which is damn solid now) and iMovie lead. As mentioned before Randy was one of the honchos behind Premiere and has been with Final Cut Pro since it was named Key Grip.
Another factoid. FCS relies on Quicktime 32-bit which is not making the jump to 64-bit. Quicktime X is the modern framework for 64-bit support but it's not full featured enough to run a heavy program like Final Cut Studio. I don't expect that we'll see a 64-bit FCS until 10.7.
Apple wouldn't have developed Grand Central Dispatch and OpenCL if they wanted to get out of Pro app development.
Sheesh.
Calm down People!
Final Cut Pro will end up looking a lot like Logic 9.0 (which as a former user of Emagic's version I can tell you was an awesome update!)
Colour and Motion will more than likely be folded together - or maybe colour will become a 'tab' in the main FCP screen ( think Piano Roll in Logic).
Perhaps the statement should have read 'Were going to make Final Cut Studio a suite worth of Apple's name in 2010' instead of something that looks like three different apps developed by three different companies 15 years ago it will look like a proper Apple app.
+ we'll get multicore 64-bit goodness throughout.
At the very least you might as well sit it out and see. Then, and only then, will the true direction become known.
Final Cut Pro will end up looking a lot like Logic 9.0 (which as a former user of Emagic's version I can tell you was an awesome update!)
Colour and Motion will more than likely be folded together - or maybe colour will become a 'tab' in the main FCP screen ( think Piano Roll in Logic).
Perhaps the statement should have read 'Were going to make Final Cut Studio a suite worth of Apple's name in 2010' instead of something that looks like three different apps developed by three different companies 15 years ago it will look like a proper Apple app.
+ we'll get multicore 64-bit goodness throughout.
At the very least you might as well sit it out and see. Then, and only then, will the true direction become known.
Are you on meds? First of all I don't want FCP turn into some Logic 9.0 look a like. If Apple wants to turn FCP into some continuation of iMovie and rest of their eye candy toys then by all means go for it. That would mean either Avid or Premier for most.
Tale of an iMovie '08 sufferer (my first post ever)
This rumor disturbed me so much that I finally registered to MacRumor's Forums after loyally, but passively reading this blog at least 4-5 times a week for the past three years. So imagine even my surprise when this seemingly slow Mac rumors-day post, drove me to write my first ever post...
I am not some tech guru, but I'm pretty good at using intuitive software like iWeb, iPhoto, Excel and Powerpoint. iMovie '08 was not a success in "dumbing down" or simplifying software.
Apple can delude themselves with usage date that iMovie '08 was a success, but any uptick they saw in iMovie usage post-'08 update could only be attributed to...
1. Surge in iPhone inspired PC to MAC new buyers (who had to use iMovie '08 installed on new MACs)
2. Exponential growth of Youtube and other video sites
3. FLIP and other super-cheap video cameras hitting the market
But I get ahead of myself...
See, I was a religious iMovie user until the iMoive '08 update. The update was a total mess (again, to me, the kind of non-tech retard who should like a good "dumbing down" now and again.) Totally not intuitive like iWeb, the iPhone and other great Mac "iProducts."
Thanks to sites like Mac Rumors and others, there was a mini-revolt and Apple gave us back iMovie HD (but refused to support it into the future.)
Last year, I just replaced my Mac Powerbook with a sweet MacBook Pro with the sole purpose of editing more on my laptop. The catch? iMovie HD was no longer supported....AT ALL!
Perhaps I was too harsh on judging iMovie '08 and decided to spend an entire weekend trying to get used to it. I just couldn't. The core of the original iMovie (iMovie HD) was editing by "Command T" to "split at playhead." You could cut the digital film image just like film (hence the term "cutting.") With iMovie '08 you had to "trim" everything. It was imprecise to make cuts, the file organization was complicated and it was very visually cluttered (almost PC like.)
I just don't think the idea of "cutting" a film timeline is confusing. "Trimming" is something we do with pictures, but it doesn't really make as much as sense if you are trying to edit together multiple video scenes from even the simplest of armature shot weddings.
I eventually jumped ship to Final Cut Express. While I will agree with Jobs/Apple that Final Cut Express isn't immediately obvious to use like, say, iMovie HD, it is soooooo much more intuitive to use than iMovie '08/'09. I took me a day to get used to Final Cut Express, whereas iMovie '08 always seemed like a chore. I would have to buy a PC again if iMovie '08 was the only editing software option.
The only software experience I can compare to my frustrations in dealing with iMovie '08 in the last decade were two:
1) I was an loyal user of Music Match 7.0 for my music collection until they messed it all up with 8.1...that was my initial Apple flirtation with a program called iTunes (which I have used gleefully every since.)
2) When I got so sick of Windows XP that upon using my friends Mac with OSX, I literally bought an iBook the very next day.
Been using Mac ever since.
iMovie '08 is deviation from Mac's core values of simplicity, intuitiveness and ease. Any attempt to bring iMovie '08 philosophy and or architecture to Final Cut Pro (or Express) is potential catastrophic move for Apple's editing software business.
This concludes my virgin MacRumors post. Hope someone at Apple is listening.
Best,
Jeff
This rumor disturbed me so much that I finally registered to MacRumor's Forums after loyally, but passively reading this blog at least 4-5 times a week for the past three years. So imagine even my surprise when this seemingly slow Mac rumors-day post, drove me to write my first ever post...
I am not some tech guru, but I'm pretty good at using intuitive software like iWeb, iPhoto, Excel and Powerpoint. iMovie '08 was not a success in "dumbing down" or simplifying software.
Apple can delude themselves with usage date that iMovie '08 was a success, but any uptick they saw in iMovie usage post-'08 update could only be attributed to...
1. Surge in iPhone inspired PC to MAC new buyers (who had to use iMovie '08 installed on new MACs)
2. Exponential growth of Youtube and other video sites
3. FLIP and other super-cheap video cameras hitting the market
But I get ahead of myself...
See, I was a religious iMovie user until the iMoive '08 update. The update was a total mess (again, to me, the kind of non-tech retard who should like a good "dumbing down" now and again.) Totally not intuitive like iWeb, the iPhone and other great Mac "iProducts."
Thanks to sites like Mac Rumors and others, there was a mini-revolt and Apple gave us back iMovie HD (but refused to support it into the future.)
Last year, I just replaced my Mac Powerbook with a sweet MacBook Pro with the sole purpose of editing more on my laptop. The catch? iMovie HD was no longer supported....AT ALL!
Perhaps I was too harsh on judging iMovie '08 and decided to spend an entire weekend trying to get used to it. I just couldn't. The core of the original iMovie (iMovie HD) was editing by "Command T" to "split at playhead." You could cut the digital film image just like film (hence the term "cutting.") With iMovie '08 you had to "trim" everything. It was imprecise to make cuts, the file organization was complicated and it was very visually cluttered (almost PC like.)
I just don't think the idea of "cutting" a film timeline is confusing. "Trimming" is something we do with pictures, but it doesn't really make as much as sense if you are trying to edit together multiple video scenes from even the simplest of armature shot weddings.
I eventually jumped ship to Final Cut Express. While I will agree with Jobs/Apple that Final Cut Express isn't immediately obvious to use like, say, iMovie HD, it is soooooo much more intuitive to use than iMovie '08/'09. I took me a day to get used to Final Cut Express, whereas iMovie '08 always seemed like a chore. I would have to buy a PC again if iMovie '08 was the only editing software option.
The only software experience I can compare to my frustrations in dealing with iMovie '08 in the last decade were two:
1) I was an loyal user of Music Match 7.0 for my music collection until they messed it all up with 8.1...that was my initial Apple flirtation with a program called iTunes (which I have used gleefully every since.)
2) When I got so sick of Windows XP that upon using my friends Mac with OSX, I literally bought an iBook the very next day.
Been using Mac ever since.
iMovie '08 is deviation from Mac's core values of simplicity, intuitiveness and ease. Any attempt to bring iMovie '08 philosophy and or architecture to Final Cut Pro (or Express) is potential catastrophic move for Apple's editing software business.
This concludes my virgin MacRumors post. Hope someone at Apple is listening.
Best,
Jeff
No, please, Apple, don't make this into another lame consumer ******** application! Final Cut Pro has to stay what it is, with minor improvements to some features and the interface to catch up with Adobe Premiere Pro. Professionals need a professional application! What the hell are we supposed to use if even Final Cut Pro, the only good Apple application, becomes a consumer piece of junk for people with their webcams and handycams? For people who don't know how to make a video, there's iMovie. Apple should make iMovie better, instead of making FCP worse!
Gosh I really hope FCP doesn't change that much... I don't know what I would do, since Premiere Pro sucks on Macs in performance! FCP is now considered industry standard for video editing.
EDIT:
Well I just checked Premiere Pro CS5 compared to the newest FCP, and I have to admit that Premiere runs much, much faster than FCP now. CS4 used to be super-slow but that has been fixed! Good news
Gosh I really hope FCP doesn't change that much... I don't know what I would do, since Premiere Pro sucks on Macs in performance! FCP is now considered industry standard for video editing.
EDIT:
Well I just checked Premiere Pro CS5 compared to the newest FCP, and I have to admit that Premiere runs much, much faster than FCP now. CS4 used to be super-slow but that has been fixed! Good news
Just out of interest,what's up with Logic 9, they managed to clean up the UI, improve workflow for many things (bounces are a breeze now), added a bunch of really nice features (flex audio and all that, sends as post pan, post and pre fader now), simplified it for a more casual user whilst keeping all the complex midi and environment type stuff in there. At the same time they've added support making it a 64 bit app, and with support from plugin makers it's still a viable DAW for music production amongst other things.
If they can manage a similar job of redoing FCP things should be OK.
Quicktime X has everything needed. It's Quicktime player that lacks features. Not the framework.
Not quite. Apple is quite honest with their marketing of QTX.
http://developer.apple.com/technologies/mac/snowleopard/quicktimex.html
Note the emphasis on "playback" but little information on recording. QTX does record I believe but it's simply not robust enough to function at the core of a high end recording/editing suite yet.
I for one Do NOT want a tab for color grading! editing and color grading are 2 separate jobs!!
If my memory serves me well, Shake was rumored to be included with FCS 3.0... I cannot find the icon in my copy!!
and we all know what NUKED!! that program. Prefer send to stand alone program... No more TABS!
There is nothing wrong with FCP UI. Its all about work flow. Touch the UI and you mess with work flow. Features, speed and stability are always welcome but touching UI is not allowed. FCP isn't complex. Hell, iMovie is complex to anyone that has used any professional editing system.
Not Cocoa?!
APPLE is lazy!!!
The truth is, Apple's Pro apps are on the back burner, and real pros don't use them.
Apple is keeping disappointing me.
In early years they have been a pretty closed company proprietary interfaces like ADC, jacks that only work with apple speakers.... Later they they become a more open company and now they keep screw the old loyal consumers. What a well Steve Jobs have in is head? They criticize Microsoft but they are becoming like they.
No bluray, no i5 on macbooks, pro apps leaved beyond. they new locked in iPad, I don't understand....
In early years they have been a pretty closed company proprietary interfaces like ADC, jacks that only work with apple speakers.... Later they they become a more open company and now they keep screw the old loyal consumers. What a well Steve Jobs have in is head? They criticize Microsoft but they are becoming like they.
No bluray, no i5 on macbooks, pro apps leaved beyond. they new locked in iPad, I don't understand....
You could have argued the same thing in Logic, which I always liked from version 6 when I moved across from Cubase. From version 6 till now things have been tweaked, sometimes moved around, and in version 9 (or was it version 8? I forget) the whole UI got an overhaul, but nearly everything is still in the same place, just a few things have been moved that arguably were in the wrong place the first time around, and if anything workflow has improved with the changes that have been put in place.
Now I haven't used FCP in over a year, but I remember finding it fairly intuitive and easy to use from the first time I used it over 7 years ago, but I don't see the harm in rejigging the UI so it's more in line with the rest of the Pro apps, as long as they don't try and re-invent the wheel, as I would agree that if something works now, they shouldn't try and fix it.
But this whole thing reminds me of a while ago when there was a rumor that Logic Pro was being dropped and GarageBand Pro was going to take its place, there was uproar.... Shortly after Logic Studio 9 was released, and they did a wonderful job with that, even if they did take their sweet time about it.
no
Excellent point. The same type of Drama Queens were proclaiming Logic dead and Logic Studio has turned out to be a very nice update.
No ...Final Cut Pro's interface is not up to modern day standards. While those of you who have used it are familiar with it the UI certainly needs to become more efficient IMO.
Apple will get it done right..that's what they do.
Simply not true. All the new features implemented in the last release of FCS are in Cocoa.
The real pros? FCS is used to edit whole Oscar winning movies and more. What planet do you live on?
That's Steve's schtick. It really comes off as dismissive. It's probably a marketing thing he learned when he was young and he clings to it to this day. It's meaningless because he uses this hyperbole all the time. It's tiring.
So what about UI of Avid, Nuke, Flame, Flair, Inferno, Lustre or any other moving image professional software. Are these up to modern day standards? Hell yes! Same goes with FCP. What do you really want to change in FCP UI. Logic 9 is space eating bright colored eye candy. Which would blind any critical colorists eyes. Apple has screwed it up with Shake and is close to loosing the ball on FC Server so I wouldn't say "Apple will get it done right." For a past couple of years they haven't done much right on field of moving image.
Good News
I thought Final Cut Pro would have been cancelled. The writing has been on the wall for some time now that Apple has been looking past it's core Apple Pro market. I fit within that Pro Consumer category and if the price is more reasonable then I'll try out this "iMovie Pro" product.
From what I have seen with Apple Pro customers is that they don't upgrade frequently but big dog it once in a long time. At the end of the day, they spend less than the average Mac consumer over all. I can see the typical Mac consumer refreshing their hardware more quickly. So in a way, the Apple customer buying habits created this situation.
I thought Final Cut Pro would have been cancelled. The writing has been on the wall for some time now that Apple has been looking past it's core Apple Pro market. I fit within that Pro Consumer category and if the price is more reasonable then I'll try out this "iMovie Pro" product.
From what I have seen with Apple Pro customers is that they don't upgrade frequently but big dog it once in a long time. At the end of the day, they spend less than the average Mac consumer over all. I can see the typical Mac consumer refreshing their hardware more quickly. So in a way, the Apple customer buying habits created this situation.