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The only thing I don't understand is why this the tally for this story is leaning more towards the negative. Do people misunderstand something here? Right now it's 44 positive, 56 negative... I would have thought the overwhelming response to NOT having DRM would have been positive... Am I missing something or are they?

I've found that the voting on the news article to be worthless anyway.

You can put "Apple is Licensing the OS to be installed on ANY machine" and there would be more negatives than positives.
or
"God has struck down the Microsoft Headquarters.... No more Windows" or ANYTHING and the voting would seem totally off regardless.
 
Considering how the people who bought music with Microsoft DRM pre-Zune have just been told "tough luck" and will no longer be able to authorize music they already paid for... I'll side with Apple against DRM for sure! I'll also happily shop at Amazon, if iTunes doesn't have a DRM-free version of a track I want.

Here's a take I found interesting (saw the link at DaringFireball):
http://weblog.raganwald.com/2008/05/why-apple-is-more-expensive-than-amazon.html

Sounds plausible to me.

(Mostly positive comments but mostly negative votes?)

+1 on this. Why would anyone buy anything from MS after that? It's beyond me.

- js
 
So now MS is denying it? Hmm..... I don't know who to believe. I don't trust MS enough. They are probably just using semantics. I won't believe otherwise until it's proven.

I think you hit the nail right on the head. Microsoft didn't deny it was working on filters. A categorical, clear-cut denial looks like this:

"Microsoft has no plans or commitments to implement content filtering features."

But that's not what Microsoft said. Instead, it said:

"Microsoft has no plans or commitments to implement content filtering features in the Zune family of devices as part of our content distribution deal with NBC."

Those are the critical words. The only thing Microsoft denied is that filters are a requirement of the current distribution deal with NBC. That doesn't rule out a separate agreement between Microsoft and NBC, one that contractually isn't "part of" the distribution deal. It doesn't rule out a commitment between Microsoft and NBC to eventually explore adding filters down the road, once they've been developed.

People need to be sensitive to the wording of these statements. They're not written on napkins during lunchtime. If they're not written by Legal, they're at the very least carefully vetted and approved by Legal. And lawyers like to parse hairs and play these "plausible deniability" games. Don't be fooled. Filters are coming to Zune. It's just a matter of time.
 
What's the point, really? They cannot completely refuse to play ANY movies not bought online, since that'll also block the playing of movies made by Little Timmy of his granny's dog. So there's clearly some kind of trigger put in the files or some such.

This would be SO easy for pirates to bypass once they figure out how it works. A few code inserted into software like Handbrake or the such, and the purpose of this "addition" vanishes.

Stupid.
 
Go Apple!

I find it amazing how hard the content distributors are working to try to prop up such an antiquated business model. A new age of distribution requires a new age model!

I can see this system on the Zune causing nothing but problems...

Exactly! Thank YOU APPLE for standing against this. Hey, NBC, the old ways don't work. Find a new model.... Honestly, I think the last NBC show I sat down to watch was Seinfeld.
 
Who is NBC to decide what I can and can't watch on my own device? There are plenty of legitimate sources for content that aren't from NBC. They are on the wrong track. DRM is dead. They need to move on or just go die somewhere.
 
Hmm, it sounds like Apple made a good call here...

Although at the same time I can understand NBC's viewpoint.
 
+1 on this. Why would anyone buy anything from MS after that? It's beyond me.- js
They are disabling a part of their content soon. It is going to be stuck on the computer you currently own. Yet another reason to stay away from anything with DRM. You are at the mercy of the greed of a corporation. On a whim they can kill your content. Google did it. MS did it. Don't buy into DRM.
 
Why wouldn't Apple grant NBC's wish?
...
it would by easy to 'blame this one on NBC'.
...
the loss of content from NBC generated some equal bad press, not to mention the loss of revenue.

If Apple restricted the iPod to ONLY play items purchased though the iTunes store, sales of iPods would fall through the pits. THIS would have been the bad business decision. The revenue lost because of the NBC pullout would be nothing compared to the revenue of lost iPod sales. Again, keep in mind that it's widely believed that the iTunes store is roughly break even for Apple. The money is made on hardware (iPod) sales.

I have a hard time believing that even MS would go for something this bad. I can't see this helping the Zune product line do anything but decline.
 
Hmm, I wonder how many Apple supporters here would say the same thing if you replaced the words "DVD or CD" with "Retail Mac OS X" and "play" with "install"... ;)

Ha, you don't agree to an contract when you purchase a DVD or CD. The law applies, but no contract. ;)
 
Of course MS has no plans to build it into the zune. They've already built it into Vista. LOL
 
But please note: section 107 has nothing to do with if you can make a private copy or play it whatever media player you want. Fair use is an exception that allows for people to make copies for the purpose of research, or education, or criticism (no, not criticizing DRM - criticizing the underlying work), i.e., I don't like 2livecrew lyrics, so I can write a newspaper article decrying what they say and literally quote the lyrics.
Yes, a huge confusion w/Fair Use is people using the term improperly.

For everyone that thinks you have the right to play a DVD where ever you want, you really don't. Under the DMCA, you are circumventing a copyright protection mechanism to get access to the underlying work. While the MPAA isn't going to come after you for your own personal copy, it is still technically unlawful.
Well, that's gray area. Per the BetaMax case from the 80's and the Audio Home Recording act space shifting and time shifting are w/in consumers right to do. But enter then DMCA which makes circumventing copyright protection illegal and you have a case of lobbyists successfully pushing an end run around the law through the system. Unfortunately so far the courts have stood behind the DMCA and kicked years of precedent in favor of the consumer to the curb.


Lethal
 
Ha, you don't agree to an contract when you purchase a DVD or CD. The law applies, but no contract. ;)

So all it would take is a simple "break this seal and you agree not to make digital copies of this DVD/CD" and you'd follow that?

arn
 
Well Microsoft does technically have a vested interest in MSNBC, similarly to that of Steve Jobs vested interest in Disney and thus ABC. This could partially account for the amount of sway and input they seem to have in NBCs digital moves, or in the least with them being the group chosen for distributing content.


Microsoft sold off their part of MSNBC last year.



Somebody's lying. Who's lips were moving first?


They're both lying. It's as I've said before. This is all about the advertising business.NBC wants ads to be on their TV shows that are downloaded.The only reason they are allowing "some" tv shows on the Zune right now is to dip their toes back into the ITMS slowly over time ( see UK ITMS ) so as not to lose face and embarrassment.

NBC will be back on ITMS within 4 months.;)
 
for ripping content legally to your mobile device, you would need:

(a) a blu-ray disc with BD-Live support; or
(b) a system of digital boardcast with law, policy and guidelines to all recorder manufacturer (e.g. Japan, now they allow to move recorded programmes 10 times to different machines or media)

Well, NBC. Wish you good luck.
 
Dear Microsoft:

Kiss the Zune goodbye.


Dear Universal:

I used to purchase your shows via iTunes. Now I watch it for free and legally online. I'm a pretty decent executive, and I just can't imagine how this is a better business model. But hey, you're the experts.

Anyway, if you don't want my money in the interest of "sticking it to Apple," that's your choice. Not a smart one, mind you, but a choice nonetheless.


Dear Apple:

This is why, each year, you get $10,000+ from me, and 100,000's of thousands of dollars from my company.

Treat your customers like, well, customers, and not crooks and I will return the kindness. Thanks Apple. (Now, go fix the bugs in Leopard and the iPhone, and the numerous hardware problems. Your quality issues are getting pathetic.)
 
Very much agreed.

Yeah, I think what we're all forgetting for the sake of debating various points is that anything Zune is a failure continuing to survive by deep MS pockets underwriting it. Zune has no viable market, therefore Zune content has no viable market, ergo if NBC wants in on DLC they will be back to iTunes in addition to other outlets. It's been said before but worth repeating, Apple is first in the digital media player and DLC market. MS is second. But this is misleading. This is far more misleading than saying McCain was first in the national Republican nominee race and Huckabee was second. Apple has about 80% of the worldwide hardware -- even flash players, now -- and DLC market. EVERYONE ELSE, EVERY SINGLE MAKER of some kind of media player and/or some kind of DLC store, has the remaining 20%. For MS to be second, they could have 1.5% of the market. It may not be that small, but it's small.

You can make the case that Apple did fine with 2.4% of the computer market. Sure. If MS will settle for a niche market, they can have 2.4% of the media hardware and DLC market. But when EA published The Sims, they did not make a version only for Mac OS. In order to make money with DLC, NBC can certainly sell on the Zune store, but they have to sell on the iTunes store, too.

NBC is just playing more in the long line of "we can teach Steve Jobs he is not going to remake the entertainment media content industry". Just like the record labels. Just like the movie studios: No movies, TV only. Okay, catalog movies only. Okay, new movies, but not the good stuff, and no day-and-date w/ DVD new release movies. Okay, the good stuff. Okay, day-and-date new releases, but rentals only, maybe indefinitely. Okay, day-and-date new releases, rental or purchase, your choice. Way to show that idiot Steve Jobs, boys.

Let NBC have their try. They've always been recalcitrant, holding back ER from the iTunes Store when it was -- and may still be, which says something -- their signature property. But let them give it a go. Won't work. People like what Jobs and Apple are doing in entertainment media. It's fast, convenient, has infinite stock and a massive, diverse catalog, even including lots of "imports" -- digital download agreements for artists with no physical media distribution contracts in the States -- the return of the hallowed single, darling of my youth, at right about the freaking cost of the vinyl single when it vanished, the best price on albums 99+% of the time. And now video, day of release, rent or buy, at rental prices equal to the all but defunct traditional rental outlets -- hell, just about more DVDs are sold now than rented at a place to Blockbuster, the physical stores -- and purchase prices a dollar cheaper than the steepest release-week discounts.

Wow, we're getting reasonably slammed and nefariously gouged left and right at retail and in the hospitality industry based on "rising transportation and fuel costs", getting killed at the gas and diesel pump -- $40 to fill the tank of late-model Honda Civic coupé; that's even funny! -- we practically HAVE to stay home most of our off time and holidays, and here's this freak Jobs at Apple giving us something we can enjoy at a price we can afford. And NBC wonders why he has such power in the industry? And Jobs is making a killing, but he figured out the trick: You can get filthy rich making a good deal for your customers, no altruism required.
 
Just add this to the growing heap of reasons Apple should add a DVR function to iLife and Apple TV and do it now. Just make all that NBC content de facto available for free and watch how quick they will crawl back onto iTunes.
 
From the update:

"Microsoft has no plans or commitments to implement content filtering features in the Zune family of devices as part of our content distribution deal with NBC," the software maker said in a statement.

Do you see the qualifying statement from them?

You must read between the Corporate BS speak to see the truth.

EDIT: I see ddarko already pointed this fact out a bit earlier. I hadnt read the entire thread before posting this.
 
Edit---Wait, Wait....it seems perhaps MS did stand for something here!

i sure hope so!

No, MS merely wasn't ready to let the world know about it, so they simply lied. This software will show up, and I'll bet that NBC and MS's lawyers have a sit down meeting about the meaning of a non-disclosure agreement tomorrow morning.

So all it would take is a simple "break this seal and you agree not to make digital copies of this DVD/CD" and you'd follow that?

arn

Those, much like EULA's in software amount to little more than a, quite flimsy, straw man in a court of law.
 
Further, the notion of shaking in your boots at piracy over a product you broadcast in the clear, with no encryption or DRM whatsoever over public airwaves, is laughable. NBC is taking no steps to prevent you from recording their programming to tape, DVR or DVD-R. What NBC should be concerned about is getting you to watch the ads, which is where they make their money. Alternative sales through digital downloads are just a perk. NBC has already made their money on every TV program they air, or they cancel it. The icing, the extra revenue, is selling it via a digital download service. So this is about money, not piracy, and it would follow that MS is not going to content filter anything, that this is indeed about Apple refusing to bump the pricing on NBC programming or cut NBC a bigger share -- and from what I understand, content providers already get the lion's share, so this is about raising prices.

This is exactly what I was going to say. It's about greed. That or they're getting less from commercials due to time-shifted content. Either way, it's about money and they made a stupid move to switch to the MS service, even if MS subsidizes it just to get press over Apple. That's dumb for MS. I can't even think of a show on NBC. Wait, the Incredible Dog Challenge will be on NBC. I only know that because my company produces it.

Let MS and NBC eat cake. Good for Apple. Piss off NBC, you're not even worth it. And to those who think MS is opening Pandora's box, there's no legal way to force DRM onto computers or devices if the companies making them don't want to.
 
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