Apple Reinstates Epic Games EU Developer Account, Paving the Way for Alternative App Store

[mcnallym]

Simple, because there is more than one factor that goes into the decision making process. I want an open device, and I also want to be able to communicate with family using iMessage. Guess what? I can't get a device that does both.

Thats funny as I have an iPhone as do most of my friends however some friends have Android which is why I have a cross platform app installed so can communicate with them

Clearly I was wrong in this and should have bought a second phone, on Android so could message my friends that don't have iPhones.

That is such a weak argument as to why you have to have an iPhone.

 

[gregmancuso]

Simple, because there is more than one factor that goes into the decision making process. I want an open device, and I also want to be able to communicate with family using iMessage. Guess what? I can't get a device that does both.

It's like asking "why would you vote for politician A when politician B agrees with you on issue W?" Well, it's because I agree with politician A on X,Y, and Z.

But then you have to choose A, B, or neither. You do get to complain that your chosen does not support W, or X / Y / Z, respectively. You don’t get to force A to now agree with you on W just because you chose them.

 

[bluecoast]

Yes, the entire part of town that they built and maintain. And if you don't like it, there is a whole "open" other part of town where you have a bunch of really great options.

It's like moving into a neighborhood with a HOA and then getting upset you can't paint your house purple. Do I think it's ridiculous an HOA says you can't paint your house whatever color you want? Absolutely. But you knew that you couldn't when you bought the house!

Do I think it's ridiculous Apple is kicking and screaming about this? Yes. Do I wish they'd allow side loading? Personally, for me yes - but I think it's going to lead to more issues with normal users than people who want it realize. Do I think the EU should be able to force them to? Absolutely not. Do I think that my (or Apple's) opinion matters here? No - the EU is going to do what the EU is going to do.

I think the point is that mobile platforms are now where a huge amount of computing use and commerce now occur.

Apple makes a compelling consumer product which people love.

Most people have no idea - nor do they care - about the business terms that Apple dictates in the App Store.

Ie so they are not going to change devices (unless Apple stops making good iPhones, or something better comes along).

So what the EU is doing is making mobile platforms open so that they are regulated and competition is allowed across mobile platforms in their jurisdiction.

Competition is good right?

Apple is doing the classic thing that antitrust regulation is there to prevent.

Where first movers make a land grab, then get huge rewards from this in the early and middle years of a technology revolution (which no one tends to begrudge, regulation wise).

Where things are frowned upon, are companies that then milk the benefits of that land grab, without doing too much work for huge profits. And this is exactly what Apple is doing with the App Store.

You could make the argument that it’s the USA who is failing to properly regulate their mobile platforms so don’t be too harsh on the EU.

 

[bluecoast]

This has the same probability of happening as it does when downloading any relatively unknown developer's app from the App Store uploaded using the same hiding techniques used by the many malware apps that are often uploaded there. That is, it either always happens or it doesn't l, and the security is handled at the OS level. Meaning, if that were to happen then iOS was never as secure as Apple would lead you to believe.

And the App Store - and the iPhone - have never always been as secure as Apple would like you to believe.

I remember 10 years ago, that there was a (now defunct) social network (I think it might’ve been called Path) that harvested your contacts, which was distributed in the App Store.

And it’s only in the last few years that Apple has built in more granular access to things like photos and your iCloud Drive.

Before it was all or nothing re access.

And it’s still the case that it’s all or nothing with your contacts.

 

[bluecoast]

The EU Commission did not have to do a lot. Because Apple realized themselves what a huge mistake they have made.

As I’ve said in another post, what probably happened is that the EU sent a letter to Apple asking them about this, with a number of questions.

Apple’s lawyers likely looked at said questions and realised that if Apple responded to them, they’d end up getting into serious trouble with the EU as they’d either have to respond by lying (which would eventually be found out) or basically admit that they’d breached the laws of the EU’s new legislation.

So they (likely) advised a climb down.

Not even Apple’s own PR department will regard this as a win for Apple, believe me.

 

[GroovyCatticus]

I think the point is that mobile platforms are now where a huge amount of computing use and commerce now occur.

Apple makes a compelling consumer product which people love.

Most people have no idea - nor do they care - about the business terms that Apple dictates in the App Store.

Ie so they are not going to change devices (unless Apple stops making good iPhones, or something better comes along).

So what the EU is doing is making mobile platforms open so that they are regulated and competition is allowed across mobile platforms in their jurisdiction.

Competition is good right?

Apple is doing the classic thing that antitrust regulation is there to prevent.

Where first movers make a land grab, then get huge rewards from this in the early and middle years of a technology revolution (which no one tends to begrudge, regulation wise).

Where things are frowned upon, are companies that then milk the benefits of that land grab, without doing too much work for huge profits. And this is exactly what Apple is doing with the App Store.

You could make the argument that it’s the USA who is failing to properly regulate their mobile platforms so don’t be too harsh on the EU.

And a major part of that compelling product *is the App Store*.

Since *consumers* love the product, I’m sure they’re gonna be thanking the EU for fragmenting their experience.

Parents will love managing parental controls in each store!

People will love remembering which store they subscribed to a particular app with.

All so Schweeny can sell his V-Bucks direct to your kids!

It’s really gonna just be awesome! 😂

 

[bluecoast]

Do you have any examples of capitalism amassing too much power over a large number of a country's people and/or businesses in history?

Yes, Standard Oil.

 

[svish]

Hopefully Epic will follow the rules and there will not be any issue in the future.

 

[vipergts2207]

It just HAS to be sarcasm, right? RIGHT?! 😳

I’m sorry if you don’t understand that what this refers to is an exchange among equals.

 

[Jensend]

But then you have to choose A, B, or neither. You do get to complain that your chosen does not support W, or X / Y / Z, respectively. You don’t get to force A to now agree with you on W just because you chose them.

If I vote for someone for president of the US even if I think one of their policy proposals would be unconstitutional, I still want the Supreme Court to strike down that policy.

 

[Jensend]

Thats funny as I have an iPhone as do most of my friends however some friends have Android which is why I have a cross platform app installed so can communicate with them

Clearly I was wrong in this and should have bought a second phone, on Android so could message my friends that don't have iPhones.

That is such a weak argument as to why you have to have an iPhone.

I don't "have to have an iPhone." I don't have one. I was just pointing out an example of something I prefer on each platform. There are other factors as well.

I would guess that the vast majority of people who choose to buy iPhones don't buy them specifically because they don't allow sideloading.

 

[PowerButton]

The purpose of an alternative store is so you don't have to go to Apple (or in your example Target) and get their approval to sell your products. You can set up your own shop away from Apple (or Target in your case) by using your own resources and not Apple's (or Target's in your case).

The way this so-called alternative app store works now is like having to ask Target for permission to start your own mom & pop business selling items that would compete with Target. And if you have anything negative to say about Target, Target can terminate your business license whenever they feel like it.

But who controls the security of this “mom and pop” business? Serious question, would it be easier for nefarious software proliferation?

 

[GroovyCatticus]

I’m sorry if you don’t understand that what this refers to is an exchange among equals.

I don’t understand what you’re saying at all.

My point was his complaint about the Find My network had to be sarcasm, because if not…😳

 

[bousozoku]

Epic wanted their store on iOS and to be excluded from the 30% Apple tax. Seems like they’re getting exactly what they wanted. No joke there.

Apple losing their stranglehold over App Store fees alone is high-energy psychic damage manifested directly into the brain of Tim Cook. Losing their App Store’s sole dominance on the platform because of a stubborn video game company CEO is another level entirely.

Enjoy the ride. More platform openness will be better for us all in the long run.

In 40 or 50 years, it will be good.

Epic Games Store on Windows and Mac is barely noise from Steam and GOG. It's only still going because TenCent is keeping the company running. Having an idiot for a CEO isn't helping them.

 

[bluecoast]

And a major part of that compelling product *is the App Store*.

Since *consumers* love the product, I’m sure they’re gonna be thanking the EU for fragmenting their experience.

Parents will love managing parental controls in each store!

People will love remembering which store they subscribed to a particular app with.

All so Schweeny can sell his V-Bucks direct to your kids!

It’s really gonna just be awesome! 😂

I think you’re equating this to epic vs Apple.

It’s not like that. It’s companies wanting to distribute their apps and not have Apple skim money off their purchases.

Well it’s going to happen (in the eu) that we get alternative App Stores, so we’ll not all need to speculate.

It’ll take a while before bigger players come along. They’ll wait until Apple gets fined and stopped charging its core fees etc.

The upshot of it will likely be that most people won’t install other app stores but competition will make the App Store better - for consumers and for developers.

 

[rjp1]

I mean that just seems fair to me. If you want to use other people’s resources to find your devices, then they should be able to use yours. Surely you can see that the entire system breaks down and ceases to function if everyone can choose to have the ability to find their devices while not contributing to help others find theirs. Though perhaps I’m misunderstanding what your complaint is.

I'm talking about just wanting to use the Find My app to find your phone/watch that has gps/cellular and doesn't need to communicate with anyone else's devices. Basically to be able to use it like it worked before AirTags.

I can see your point if you have AirTags on your account.

 

[SmugMaverick]

Tim Sweeney tweeted so it must be true!

Bets on how fast before Epic breaks some rules and gets banned?

The fact that you are taking anything he says at 100% face value is funny considering that is perhaps the single most biased person in relation to not only Apple's enforcement, but also in terms of third party app stores in general. Even though the timing of Apple's actions are obviously petty, they do still have the right by US court of law to ban Epic and it's other accounts (as they have stated already) because Epic LOST their court case. The real reason Apple is backtracking is because they waited to do it too close to the DMA enforcement date, which makes it look especially monopolistic.

Wrong again chaps

The law doesn't allow Apple to threaten Epic, says EU

Apple appeared to threaten Epic Games, when the company cancelled its developer account for the second time, and cited the...

9to5mac.com

They must be fuming they can’t bully people like they do in the US.

😂😂😂

 

[johannnn]

As a Swede I feel ashamed, the repeating behavior of Epic is unacceptable

 

[Analog Kid]

Why? The CTF and Per-install fees are not going to fly. Then Epic does not have to pay Apple anything as involving Apple in any form in deciding who opens the Appstore and how revenues are shared is a no no.

There can be no conditions for Alt Appstores. Any conditions now in place will be removed after DMA starts the discussion with Apple.

It absolutely gives Apple the right to protect the integrity of their product.

 

[contacos]

So I can just use Targets infrastructure and millions of customer and not have to pay them a single penny? I also plan on using their water, electricity, employees as well.

Well isn’t it Apples problem that they are demanding to use their „infrastructure“? Maybe I don’t even want to use it (as a developer) but they force me to use their „infrastructure“

 

[Abazigal]

I think you’re equating this to epic vs Apple.

It’s not like that. It’s companies wanting to distribute their apps and not have Apple skim money off their purchases.

Well it’s going to happen (in the eu) that we get alternative App Stores, so we’ll not all need to speculate.

It’ll take a while before bigger players come along. They’ll wait until Apple gets fined and stopped charging its core fees etc.

The upshot of it will likely be that most people won’t install other app stores but competition will make the App Store better - for consumers and for developers.

Here's the thing though. Companies wanting something doesn't necessarily mean they are entitled to it.

I am pretty sure Epic would love to have their App Store available on the Switch. I don't see that ever happening, and I am pretty sure any attempt to legislate this would be met with "just make your own hardware".

I do see the argument that the iPhone is considered "essential infrastructure" in many countries and the merit of Apple not being the sole judge and jury on what apps are available to users. At the same time though, the logical part of me still believes that Apple is entitled to monetise their platform however they see fit, and the DMA (and the EU by extension) should acknowledge that head on and get that elephant out of the room, because I believe this is also what Apple is the most bitter about currently. That they are essentially being made to give up their 30% cut and control over their App Store, just like that. With nothing in return to show for it.

Something like "Yes, we are violating Apple's property rights in this regard, but we are also measuring this tradeoff as a society. Apple is still going to get compensated (maybe akin to something like FRAND patents), and Apple is still going to invest in improving their App Store because they are making so much money and it's good for their platform as a whole". Or if you expect Apple to just do all of this for free, then come out and admit it.

Maybe the EU will never be honest about it because it might open them up to counter-lawsuits? I really don't know. It's like we all know what the DMA is designed to do, it's just that nobody wants to say the ugly part out loud on record.

 

[hydrochloride]

Companies wanting something doesn't necessarily mean they are entitled to it.

What companies are entitled to or not is, in the end, defined by laws, at least outside of the U.S. 🤷🏻‍♂️

 

[Analog Kid]

Well isn’t it Apples problem that they are demanding to use their „infrastructure“? Maybe I don’t even want to use it (as a developer) but they force me to use their „infrastructure“

How can Apple force you to use their infrastructure if you're not developing for their product? Unless you're saying you are developing for their product and somehow aren't using their hardware, API, firmware, or test resources-- not sure how you'd manage that though...

 

[hagar]

Why can't I just walk into Target, setup a booth and sell some stuff?

But you can set up a booth across the street. Apple doesn’t even allow that.

 

[dannyyankou]

More like they were made to change their mind. I do not think it was voluntary.

Whether they changed their mind or they were told "no you can't do that", they shouldn't have banned them originally.