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Yeah it would, wouldn't it? Stuck in their ways like iTards that can't figure out which way to scroll on a computer because their iToys do it one way and not like is done on a computer?

You mean like that?

Because you just claimed that it was a "godsend" the ass-backwards dumb scrolling feature in Lion.

Scrolling the other way is not an improvement. It's just the other way. Not seeing information is not an improvement. That's just dumb.

What you call the backwards way is the intuitive way on a iDevice. And though iDevice people can, and did, manage to use the "backwards" way on their OS X system, making everything consistent is a good idea, especially when it only takes minutes to adjust to the new way. Apple really had two choices, either change the way it is done on idevices, or change the way it is done on OS X. Having two opposed way of doing things is silly and inconsistent. Now, because there are more idevice users, and because on an idevice the old way is ineffective, the choice seems quite obvious; they made the right decision.

No it's dumb to drop features that don't cost anything significant to maintain, such as these virtual environments. Fact is neither PPC nor the Classic environment changed, they were things frozen in time. Like DOSBox. Emulators trying and succeeding to achieve a state that is defined and final.

Keeping the legacy code in the new platform and having to continuously test the new code to insure it doesn't conflict or break prior compatibility is the cost of maintaining these virtual environments. The time spent doing that could be invested into developing new features that the overwhelming majority of people are interested in. In a world of unlimited recourses and time, sure keep all the backwards compatibility. In our world, strip away the fat.

No, Finder in SL was lame and incomplete. Finder in Lion and ML are simply not usable. What happened to the Library folder between SL and Lion? What the hell is this "all my files" pile of dung? With literally millions of files, do I need all of them? No, nobody does.

Don't use all my files, and just unhide the library.

It basically changed the default behavior of the Finder to Find file. Which is dumb.

Not really. It helps protect the system from inadvertent user mistakes. I'd call that considerate. People who know what the library is, and who are smart enough to use it wouldn't causing damage, and smart enough to find the library folder or unhide it.

You don't seem to discern between simplicity and stupidity.

I do. I agree with Einstein, I'd like things "made as simple as possible, but not simpler". Now, to understand what he meant, you might have to think a little.

Is it dumb or smart, elegant or convoluted to remove the Software Update into the MAS? Another dumb feature of ML. :cool:

Dunno, let's see when it comes out how it works. I'll judge by the function that is achieved or not achieved. I'm not in the habit of prejudging things before I know enough about it to responsibly comment.

PS: I ignored the fluff.
 
Pardon me for asking a really dumb question that springs from the above statement.

Perhaps Apple has research that refutes my concern, but I really wonder what percentage of owners of iOS devices just can't wait to get their hands on a desktop or laptop Mac — and therefore, must be confronted with a familiar (i.e., dumbed-down) interface when they do.

From what I can see from my geezer vantage point (and what others have told me), most young people have their entire lives on their Smart Phones...Email, Facebook, Twitter, web browsing, audio, video, etc., etc.

What need do or will the majority of them ever have for a real computer?

Those who need a real computer are professionals, and those who have historically used one...you know, Apple's loyal user base of a quarter-century's duration. The same people who Apple, in its newfound affluence, is basically thumbing its nose at now.

Maybe I'm not close enough to the ground to see this. I wish someone would present a convincing argument that a significant portion of iOS device users will one day buy a real Mac, and with thus need their hands held in order to make the transition.

And I wish someone would present a convincing argument for why Apple can't let an iOS be an iOS device, and let a computer be a computer.

I'd like a convincing argument as to what features "inspired by the iPad" have dumbed down the OS X interface in Mountain Lion.
 
I'm new to Macs so don't burn me, but is this going to be like a free update for existing Lion users? (Like Windows' Service Pack of sort) or is it an entirely new OS which we will have to buy?

I won't mind if its like 30USD again, but paying for the OS so soon after the release of one is annoying.
 
Pardon me for asking a really dumb question that springs from the above statement.

Perhaps Apple has research that refutes my concern, but I really wonder what percentage of owners of iOS devices just can't wait to get their hands on a desktop or laptop Mac — and therefore, must be confronted with a familiar (i.e., dumbed-down) interface when they do.

From what I can see from my geezer vantage point (and what others have told me), most young people have their entire lives on their Smart Phones...Email, Facebook, Twitter, web browsing, audio, video, etc., etc.

What need do or will the majority of them ever have for a real computer?

Those who need a real computer are professionals, and those who have historically used one...you know, Apple's loyal user base of a quarter-century's duration. The same people who Apple, in its newfound affluence, is basically thumbing its nose at now.

Maybe I'm not close enough to the ground to see this. I wish someone would present a convincing argument that a significant portion of iOS device users will one day buy a real Mac, and with thus need their hands held in order to make the transition.

And I wish someone would present a convincing argument for why Apple can't let an iOS be an iOS device, and let a computer be a computer.

Friend, most professionals, along with most young people, own idevices. It isn't only teenagers who own iPads and iPhones. Even professionals like me desire to have their idevices integrated with the macs that they own. And Apple is also well aware that people who typically own idevices before they own macs, will likely convert over to macs at some point, desiring integration along the way.

I don't have any stats, but I'd be willing to wager that both the young, middle-aged, and old want tighter integration. It is a marginal group that wants to keep things the old way, i.e. completely divided.
 
And I wish someone would present a convincing argument for why Apple can't let an iOS be an iOS device, and let a computer be a computer.

A very very good question. I always chalked it up to laziness (or lack of imagination) on Apple's part - but you bring up an interesting alternative.

As an Apple fan, I would appreciate if they'd know their limitations, that not every bowel movement from them is gold plated. That more often than not they're just wrong.

And that there's nothing wrong with using some of that sweet iToy profit to inject a new life into the Macintosh, the professional environment, top hardware and forget about becoming the biggest MP3 retailer in the world. Let alone video rental.

WWMSD? Microsoft would do just that, use obscene profits in one area to wedge into another and expand there - Apple is the new MS, but has the outward attitude of a midsized pre-IPO startup.

The most crucial thing is the wakeup call of: iOS is fine for handheld devices, PCs are PCs and need a PC OS with PC input/output. Some of those damn things are so big and heavy that they can't be moved.

Touchscreen elements and disappearing scrollbars and a dumbed down file system is not what actual desktop/laptops need. They just need a good system, solid, predictable and intuative. Apple's had more than a decade to deliver on that, and well.. I hold no hope anymore.

In 12 years OS X has hardly improved. Funny story, I'm writing this on Mac OS X 10.4.3 and comparing it with Lion, it is in almost all aspects the same! Except not as dumbed down. :)
 
I'm new to Macs so don't burn me, but is this going to be like a free update for existing Lion users? (Like Windows' Service Pack of sort) or is it an entirely new OS which we will have to buy?

I won't mind if its like 30USD again, but paying for the OS so soon after the release of one is annoying.

It is a new OS version. We do not know the pricing yet. I would bet that it will be somewhere between free and $29.99 (with a gut feeling that it will be on the low end of that range.)
 
I'm new to Macs so don't burn me, but is this going to be like a free update for existing Lion users? (Like Windows' Service Pack of sort) or is it an entirely new OS which we will have to buy?

I won't mind if its like 30USD again, but paying for the OS so soon after the release of one is annoying.

I don't think anyone knows at this point. In the old cycle we paid for every update, but with Apple saying they want it to be more like the iOS environment where updates happen annually, who knows. If they take the iOS inspiration to heart, we might get it free. iOS updates are free. Perhaps they will offer some in between, 15$?
 
A very very good question. I always chalked it up to laziness (or lack of imagination) on Apple's part - but you bring up an interesting alternative.

...

In 12 years OS X has hardly improved. Funny story, I'm writing this on Mac OS X 10.4.3 and comparing it with Lion, it is in almost all aspects the same! Except not as dumbed down. :)

So well said, the whole thing!
 
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acidfast7 said:
Sigh. More iOS nonsense in OS X.

I agree. I don't want an iPhone/iPad/iPod as a workstation. How about keeping a version of OSX at least semi-professional.

Pretty sure you don't understand the word professional. Just because they have a Mac in your tollbooth does not make you professional
 
I completely disagree with you. "Jack of all trades master of none" doesn't apply here. Apple isn't removing functionality, they are simply adding it.

Not one single person on this thread who claims that these features are "a step backwards" can explain why. I have yet to see a valid reason.

How does notification center hinder your productivity? How does unifying a desktop and mobile OS hinder productivity?

You can still launch twitter or mail if you like to read messages, nothing is stopping you. If you don't like alerts, turn them off, but for those of us who do a lot of multitasking alerts are a huge help.

Not to mention Mission Control is far from a gadget. Again, for those of us that multitask its a very useful feature.

Sp please explain how on earth is adding new features a step backwards? How is Mountain Lion limiting you in your workflow?

Apologies I made a mistake - I meant 'Launchpad' to be gimmiky, not Mission Control as I incorrectly stated in my last post.

That said, Mission Control is also a mess and very clunky. I use a two button mouse and with Spaces I was able to drag a document up to the icon in the menubar, right click to show the spaces, and then drop the document into another space. this is an incredibly quick way to move documents around and with mission control you just can't do this. It's not a question of getting used to a new way of working, Mission Control is simply not as good as the feature it replaced.
You wanted an example of an 'upgrade' limiting my workflow - there you go!

The removal of colour icons from the finder side bar is another, the removal as 'save as' for documents is another example of Apple REMOVING functionality with an OS 'upgrade'.

Don't forget 'Front Row' too! :)

As for the 'unification' of OSX and IOS...

iPads & iPhones are for the most part 'consumption devices'. you use them to consume information (read email, Facebook, websites etc etc).

Computers by contrast are mainly used for creation purposes. Even when used at home, they will often be used for doing accounts, home work, printing letters, editing photo's, burning CD's DVD's etc etc.

The websites you view on the iPad will have been created on computers, so will most of the games you play, spreadsheets, PDF's, Word documents, music and movies you view too, so the use of a computer is very different to that of an iPad.

It is for these reasons I own a Mac Pro, a 17" MacBook Pro, iPad 2, iPhone & iPod classic - they each have different strengths and I use them to perform different tasks.

My Mac Pro is my muscle and I use it for creating music and editing video footage, as well as light Photoshop work.
My MacBook Pro is my portable workhorse and is used for most of the same tasks as my Mac Pro, but performs them when I'm on the move.
My iPad is for 'quick glance' stuff. It sits next to me on the sofa or next to my bed and I use it to check my emails, Facebook and check the football scores.
My iPod is for holidays and it allows me to listen to hours of MP3's whilst next to the pool or on the plane.
My iPhone does a little of everything the other items do and of course allows me to make phone calls too! :)

So what is considered a 'feature' on one device may be a nuisance on another. It often won't work to simply port a feature over when the fundamental uses for the hardware you're porting to is so very different.

Crossover items like email (Apple Mail) or web browsing (Safari), which are performed on both devices transferred well from IOS to OSX and vice versa, but in the main this wont be the case.

Launch Pad is a perfect example of a port that just doesn't work - it's simply pointless on a Mac.

For this reason things like Twitter shouldn't be part of Mac OS, it's an application and should be left as such.

Its should be no more part of the OS than Facebook, iTunes or Myspace should be.

I already have the 'notifications' I need on my Mac. I already know when I have an email come in and should I require notifications about anything else, I can get them via apps like Growl.

To implement things like this into a computer's OS just makes the interface messy and confusing for those who don't wish to have them which will be many (like me).

Adding 'apps' to the OS and having to work around their 'features' if you don't want to use them is ridiculous IMO.

From those listed the only real improvement I can see is the Airplay Mirroring.

I love my iPhone & iPad, but I don't want my Mac to work like them, I want it to work WITH them - something they did fine already.

Lion didn't improve much from Snow Leopard (except Mail which is an app) and in some ways removed functionality too and from the previews posted today, Mountain Lion is just a further step in the wrong direction.

Apple should improve the GUI of the OS in Lion (a definite backwards step from Snow Leopard), fix it's remaining bugs and make those apps they've added in Mountain Lion available as free or cheap downloads via the app store (like they did with FaceTime).

Most of all they should remember that they are writing an OS for a computer, not a tablet or iPhone.
It is used totally differently from those touch screen devices and largely to perform different tasks.
Therefore the requirements and focus should be on improving elements relevant to the use of a mac computer and not simply porting apps across from a touch screen driven IOS and calling the resulting OS an 'upgrade'.
 
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This annoying checkbox from Lion is finally fixed!
It remembers his 'state'. So you don't have to uncheck it anymore.
14sp55.png
 
That said, Mission Control is also a mess and very clunky. I use a two button mouse and with Spaces I was able to drag a document up to the icon in the menubar, right click to show the spaces, and then drop the document into another space. this is an incredibly quick way to move documents around and with mission control you just can't do this. It's not a question of getting used to a new way of working, Mission Control is simply not as good as the feature it replaced.
You wanted an example of an 'upgrade' limiting my workflow - there you go!

If you assign a specific desktop (space) for a program, dropping the file on that program in the menubar will open it in your assigned desktop. If you don't want the app to be opened in a specific desktop, like having all word documents open in Word and in Desktop 4 let's say, but rather have some Word files opened in desktop 2, and others in 3, there is an easy solution without having to right click at all. Leave your Word program (in this example, assigned to all desktops) as normal, now enable hot corners with one of them launching mission control. This is the pre-configuring you need to do only once. Now you can achieve your task as before. Just select your file, then drag it to the hot corner. Do not release it there. It'll launch, quickly, mission control. You can now drag it to your selected Desktop. Hold it there for a second, it'll open that desktop. Now drop the file on the App you like to open it in and it'll launch it in your assigned desktop. It might seem complicated conceptually, or to describe, but it actually all happens very quickly, with one button click. The only real difference is you have to go through a graphical interface to achieve what you want. But it is easily doable, smooth, and fast. No need for two button mouses.

Here's another way. Enable hotkeys. Assign desktops to hotkeys (like using F keys, or cmd F keys). Select your file and start dragging it, now use your hot key while still having the mouse selecting the file (the screen will shift to the new desktop), drop it into the menubar App.

Here's a third option. Place Mission Control in your dock. Leave your app assigned to all desktops (default). Select your file, drag it to mission control icon on your dock, hold it for a second, mission control open, now drag it to your selected desktop and hold it for a second, the desktop open. Now drag it to your desired app and drop it, it'll open it on the program of your choosing and in the desktop of your choosing.

The removal of colour icons from the finder side bar is another, the removal as 'save as' for documents is another example of Apple REMOVING functionality with an OS 'upgrade'.

Agreed. I liked the colors in Finder and the ability to use personal icons for the folders. That seemed like a very small step backwards, and the same goes for the duplicate vs save as.

Don't forget 'Front Row' too! :)

Lol.
 
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Apologies I made a mistake - I meant 'Launchpad' to be gimmiky, not Mission Control as I incorrectly stated in my last post.

That said, Mission Control is also a mess and very clunky. I use a two button mouse and with Spaces I was able to drag a document up to the icon in the menubar, right click to show the spaces, and then drop the document into another space. this is an incredibly quick way to move documents around and with mission control you just can't do this. It's not a question of getting used to a new way of working, Mission Control is simply not as good as the feature it replaced.
You wanted an example of an 'upgrade' limiting my workflow - there you go!

The removal of colour icons from the finder side bar is another, the removal as 'save as' for documents is another example of Apple REMOVING functionality with an OS 'upgrade'.

Don't forget 'Front Row' too! :)

As for the 'unification' of OSX and IOS...

iPads & iPhones are for the most part 'consumption devices'. you use them to consume information (read email, Facebook, websites etc etc).

Computers by contrast are mainly used for creation purposes. Even when used at home, they will often be used for doing accounts, home work, printing letters, editing photo's, burning CD's DVD's etc etc.

The websites you view on the iPad will have been created on computers, so will most of the games you play, spreadsheets, PDF's, Word documents, music and movies you view too, so the use of a computer is very different to that of an iPad.

It is for these reasons I own a Mac Pro, a 17" MacBook Pro, iPad 2, iPhone & iPod classic - they each have different strengths and I use them to perform different tasks.

My Mac Pro is my muscle and I use it for creating music and editing video footage, as well as light Photoshop work.
My MacBook Pro is my portable workhorse and is used for most of the same tasks as my Mac Pro, but performs them when I'm on the move.
My iPad is for 'quick glance' stuff. It sits next to me on the sofa or next to my bed and I use it to check my emails, Facebook and check the football scores.
My iPod is for holidays and it allows me to listen to hours of MP3's whilst next to the pool or on the plane.
My iPhone does a little of everything the other items do and of course allows me to make phone calls too! :)

So what is considered a 'feature' on one device may be a nuisance on another. It often won't work to simply port a feature over when the fundamental uses for the hardware you're porting to is so very different.

Crossover items like email (Apple Mail) or web browsing (Safari), which are performed on both devices transferred well from IOS to OSX and vice versa, but in the main this wont be the case.

Launch Pad is a perfect example of a port that just doesn't work - it's simply pointless on a Mac.

For this reason things like Twitter shouldn't be part of Mac OS, it's an application and should be left as such.

Its should be no more part of the OS than Facebook, iTunes or Myspace should be.

I already have the 'notifications' I need on my Mac. I already know when I have an email come in and should I require notifications about anything else, I can get them via apps like Growl.

To implement things like this into a computer's OS just makes the interface messy and confusing for those who don't wish to have them which will be many (like me).

Adding 'apps' to the OS and having to work around their 'features' if you don't want to use them is ridiculous IMO.

From those listed the only real improvement I can see is the Airplay Mirroring.

I love my iPhone & iPad, but I don't want my Mac to work like them, I want it to work WITH them - something they did fine already.

Lion didn't improve much from Snow Leopard (except Mail which is an app) and in some ways removed functionality too and from the previews posted today, Mountain Lion is just a further step in the wrong direction.

Apple should improve the GUI of the OS in Lion (a definite backwards step from Snow Leopard), fix it's remaining bugs and make those apps they've added in Mountain Leopard available as free or cheap downloads via the app store (like they did with FaceTime).

Most of all they should remember that it they are writing an OS for a computer, not a tablet or iPhone.
It is used totally differently from those touch screen devices and largely to perform different tasks.
Therefore the requirements and focus should be on improving elements relevant to the use of a mac computer and not simply porting apps across from a touch screen driven IOS and calling the resulting OS an 'upgrade'.

It's amazing that a person can ignore everything that contradicts their point, but they can't ignore features that have practically no impact on the way they want to use their computer. :D
 
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What you call the backwards way is the intuitive way on a iDevice.

Notice that the Macintosh is not an iDevice. I know with Lion and now ML that may take some imagination, but it's all true. It's a Mac. Limited as they are, compared to what PCs can be, they are for all intents and purposes infinitely more capable than an iDevice.

Point being, what is intuative on a limited handheld device looks dumb on a so much much more capable computer, such as the Macintosh.

And though iDevice people can, and did, manage to use the "backwards" way on their OS X system, making everything consistent is a good idea, especially when it only takes minutes to adjust to the new way.

No, not really - the iToys are by design and lack of power, far, far less capable than a Mac. Using the extremely limited, lowest common denominator, way of the iToy on a Mac is more than backwards, it's ass-backwards.

I guess I should thank all that's holy that Apple didn't invent the T9 numerical keyboard input. Close call!

If you can't discern between one device and another, you have more problems than most people. One realized that stepping on the pedals of an airplane doesn't throttle up the gas! One doesn't try to pedal in the car as one would do on a bicycle, would one?

One would not expect a 27" stationary full-fledged computer to act like a handheld device. For one, they're obviously not a similar device, so expecting them to work in a similar way makes little sens and for another, what makes sense on a 3" monitor makes no sense on a 27" monitor. Such as disappearing scroll bars - in particular since disappearing scrollbars don't help anyone who goes from a iToy to a Mac.

Do you think people break out in cold sweat and confusion when those scroll bars just don't DISAPPEAR??!!! No, it was made for a cosmetic, vain and mostly dumb reason. Because they could. For the lulz.

Apple really had two choices, either change the way it is done on idevices, or change the way it is done on OS X. Having two opposed way of doing things is silly and inconsistent.

The two products, Macs and iToys are by their very nature "inconsistent". Why can't I move my Mac Pro with me? Put the iMac in my pocket? Use the touchscreen on my Macbook? Can I call from any of these devices using the SIM card?

Your first logical fallacy is to consider iToys and Macs anything but inconsistent. Your second logical fallacy is to make the artificial demand that there has to be any kind of internal consistency between the two very inconsistent devices.

There is an ocean between the two in actual capability, in physical design and in intended application. Thus the artificial demand that they "need" or "should" be treated in any similar way is based on a false premise.

It would be silly and inconsistent if Macs were not more or less the same to use, as would it be silly and inconsistent if iToys were not more or less the same - but to join the two just because they're made by Apple, that's a major case of missing the point.

Now, because there are more idevice users, and because on an idevice the old way is ineffective, the choice seems quite obvious; they made the right decision.

Again the logical fallacy that there has to be some sort of joining, completely ignoring that the "unification" of these devices the iToys and the Mac serves no purpose other than saying "it has been done". It changes nothing for the limited device that is the iToy, while it dumbs down the Mac.

When a UI created and designed for a 3-4" phone is used on a full size Mac, guess what: it's the Mac that's going to be dumbed down. Furthermore, it's a logial fallacy to imagine that because iToys are more popular they are to be imitated by Macs. They are popular as iToys, not as Macs.

That's one thing not even Windows - once famous copiers of all things Macintosh - have considered doing. Apple is so far 'round the bend that even Redmond has decided to head somewhere else for inspiration of their Windows 8.

If the ultimate point of this stillborn joining of the iOS and OS X UI is to make iToys users a little more comfortable when they are faced with an actual computer, well that's not a reason. That's something closer to codependence.

Keeping the legacy code in the new platform and having to continuously test the new code to insure it doesn't conflict or break prior compatibility is the cost of maintaining these virtual environments. The time spent doing that could be invested into developing new features that the overwhelming majority of people are interested in.

Seeing as the environments in question are self contained apps that effectively are not changing, they should not break. I'm sure Apple coded them properly to begin with - further more seeing what they wasted their time with instead of making the minimal effort of having either PPC and/or Classic working still proves my point in an unexpected way.

Namely that Apple would have done better to ensure that what they already had was good and ready for the future rather than to waste time and effort on meaningless gibberish such as iOSification of Mac OS X. While ardent fans of iToys applaud this confusing strategy of Apple, perhaps thinking their choice in a handheld toy has somehow been reaffirmed, these things aren't selling the Mac. Something else is, the Mac sells faster than the competition - not because Apple is making more effort than the competition to upgrade the Mac OS or the Macintosh hardware - no despite Apple not doing that very much.

Apple are successful with the Mac - finally - but despite themselves. Tragicomically.

In a world of unlimited recourses and time, sure keep all the backwards compatibility. In our world, strip away the fat.

In general, you're right - yet you once again build everything on a logical fallacy - namely that these things are actual backwards compatibility, in the sense that they are old APIs or fundamental frameworks. They are not, they are emulators.

Essentially independent apps, running on top of the system - like Word or VLC or DOSBox. These apps don't break when the system is upgraded. That's not the norm, that all or even most or even a considerable amount of apps breaks in a system upgrade. There are always some, especially those that rely on some system frameworks or APIs that are significantly worked on in the system upgrade.

Rosetta was a PPC emulator, for instance. It was an application that relied on no special APIs, no danger of it breaking. It just pretended to be a PPC CPU.

Obviously you don't realize the difference between actual backwards compatibility á la Windows and this. This is a virtual machine. An independent and isolated virtual machine. Once installed, it's there for free.

Furthermore, I reiterate, considering the waste evident in the Lion "upgrade" and now the ML "upgrade", what has actually been cut is the meat and we're left with the fat - in the form of shiny and lickable effects and new ways to integrate Apple's on-line store into our credid card.

Also, a lot of effort (or perhaps not even a lot, judging by the mediocre results) has gone into iOSification of the Mac OS instead of actually improving the UI, the underpinnings and the technological features of the Mac OS. Once it was UNIX. Once it was also a pretty neat server OS. Once we knew that whatever new technology came on market, we the Macintosh users would enjoy it sooner or later.

Now all the effort, all the fat, is used to sell us insignificant things - virtual space, virtual music, virtual video - intangibles. Consumables. Fat.

Don't use all my files, and just unhide the library.

Naturally I do this, but that doesn't make the hiding of the library and the inane attempt to present a non-hierarchical file system: dumb. Even extremely dumb. Which was my original point.

Not really. It helps protect the system from inadvertent user mistakes. I'd call that considerate. People who know what the library is, and who are smart enough to use it wouldn't causing damage, and smart enough to find the library folder or unhide it.

Microsoft couldn't have designed it better themselves. Hide the problem. Actually that's exactly what they do in their fine OS. Thanks Microsoft! It's wonderful to be considered as smart as a Microsoft user!!

I don't mind that, but /Library is not goddam hidden. Just ~/Library. That's dumb.


'fraid you don't.

I agree with Einstein, I'd like things "made as simple as possible, but not simpler". Now, to understand what he meant, you might have to think a little.

Yeah he's agreeing with my post that you quoted. It's that you don't seem to figure out the difference between something that's simple and simplistic.

Dunno, let's see when it comes out how it works. I'll judge by the function that is achieved or not achieved. I'm not in the habit of prejudging things before I know enough about it to responsibly comment.

Yet you have made quote the fuss and prejudgement on how good it will be when Mac OS X has absorbed as much as it can if not all of iOS UI and quirks and idiosynchracies.

You prejudge, a lot in fact. You claim people are afraid of learning, when at the same time demanding that things be changed so you don't have to learn.

You claim you can't prejudge whether it is stupid or unintuative or even simplistic to put Software Update into the MAS, where you can only have access by releasing personal information and credit card info - thus jeopardizing the safety of Macs in order to get more MAS accounts, because not all will register.

That's dumb. Yet another dumb decision by Apple, and what I mean by OS X moving in the dumb direction. :p
 
It's not ever coming back.

Expose might never be coming back, but that doesn't mean they can't improve mission control to fix the clutter problem it creates for people trying to work with tens of windows open though different applications at once. I have a hard time believing that no one at apple hasn't noticed they can't move files around as easily from desktop to program to program to whatever without setting things down, moving windows, and using quite a few more clicks per task...

back to my original question though, I'm guessing this means they have made no changes to mission control ... ?
 
And the interface isn't "Dumbed Down"

Every interface element that OS X inherits from iOS dumbs it down, every API that demands iCloud and MAS account and connection dumbs it further down and every strange little useless UI decision made for seemingly no good reason and never fixed - dumbs the interface down.

All in all the Mac OS X interface is moving in the direction of being dumbed down, no question. D U M B :eek:
 
Your first logical fallacy.........

My friend, I won't address pretty much everything you said because I get the sense we are going in circles. Anyway, I just thought I should mention that I don't think you understand what logical fallacies are, and recommend you look the definition up. That being said, if you feel confident you are using the term correctly, I defy you to name the logical fallacies that you are claiming I am making so that I can re-evaluate whether or not I'm actually making any such fallacies.

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Expose might never be coming back, but that doesn't mean they can't improve mission control to fix the clutter problem it creates for people trying to work with tens of windows open though different applications at once. I have a hard time believing that no one at apple hasn't noticed they can't move files around as easily from desktop to program to program to whatever without setting things down, moving windows, and using quite a few more clicks per task...

back to my original question though, I'm guessing this means they have made no changes to mission control ... ?

Would you care to enlighten me and be a little more explicit regarding what Expose could do that Mission control can't? Perhaps you'd be kind enough to describe what you did and what you achieved in SL, and I'll see what I need to do in Lion to achieve the same. That way I can fairly assess whether or not there is any loss with mission control.
 
Why couldn't Apple just release an update (OSX Lion 10.7.4) to add all these new features instead of making a whole new OS?
 
thank god that i didnt upgrade to 10.7 & still on snow leopard :p

but ya this is so fast ;):rolleyes:

I did just buy Lion and downgraded...really well spent $29 :p

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Why couldn't Apple just release an update (OSX Lion 10.7.4) to add all these new features instead of making a whole new OS?

probably there is a bit more work under the hood than it looks so..or they are just aware that Lion sucks and doing it from scratch, again and more precisely?;)
 
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