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Apple Releases iPhone SDK, Demos Spore, Instant Messaging

parapup said:
Yep, right on friend. The whole software industry has been well adjusted to selling software using a central store and paying 30% of each sale to the store. 30% per sale are the costs of administration and billing. Rrriggght.

Sorry but that does not make sense. If it was a _fixed_ one time cost it would have been within reason. 30% PER SALE just is not workable.
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So what cut do you think software retailers usually take from publishers and developers?
 
kingtj said:
I said it before, and it just further proves my original statement. Apple really doesn't feel as though the iPod Touch is *supposed* to be 100% equivalent to the iPhone. It's not even a device I think they had any intention of offering at all, in the first place. Their hand was simply forced, because their business model for these devices has always centered around the idea of "profit sharing" from AT&T subscriptions as part of the revenue stream. Then, they found out people were buying up iPhones and never activating them at all - simply so they could have a cooler video iPod with multi-touch. That screwed with their plans, so they threw together the iPod Touch to satisfy that crowd.

They're making it clear that because the Touch doesn't give them any profit from cellphone subscriptions, you're not going to get some of the cool, new iPhone apps without paying $20 or so a pop, to compensate.

Might piss some folks off - but frankly, I never saw a promise from Apple that things would be any other way. People just *assumed* their Touch would always get everything for free that iPhones got because the two devices LOOK the same.
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I'm a little confused about this....don't we get free software updates for iPods. What makes the iPod touch different in the eyes of sarbox? Just a serious question.
 
Can somebody help me outt? I know the SDK thing was released today, but what about for iPod Touch users? Do we download the SDK from the iPhone Link? And I saw the thing were it said the demoed AOL IM. Can I get that NOW?

Please help.
 
parapup said:
You did not answer what value it adds for a developer. And if you think of it no store ever had done that - charge for entry. Charging for displaying the goods and associated costs + profit is fine - thats how stores work. But charging for nothing and then again charging 30% in the name of "store upkeep" is ridiculous. The $99 is just that - entry charges.
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You are opposed to a one-time fee of $99? The value is the central store location, where millions of iPhone users will go... seems pretty trivial amount of $$$ for reaching such a vast audience.
 
j-a-x said:
I went to the website before it went down (about 15 or 20 minutes after the press conference) and I was able to sign up and click the download link.

Am I allowed to post the URL to the DMG file here? (I don't want Apple to get mad at me)...
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Does it contain the 2.0 beta for the iPhone? or do I need to pay the $99 for that ?
 
jmorrison0722 said:
Do you not think that vendors have to pay Wal-Mart in some way to sell their products?
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Not 30% and Walmart does not claim whatever they charge is not for profit, just store upkeep. Think of the differences between selling a chair at Walmart and selling a piece of software. (No storage costs, no transportation costs - at least they are negligible and do not increase per copy of s/w sold.)
 
drb6 said:
I'm a little confused about this....don't we get free software updates for iPods.
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No. You'll get bug-fixes and some upgrades (better power management) and that type of thing, but they charge to upgrade the actual software in ways that add lots of new features.

Kind of like how on Macs you get OS 4.9 for free but 5.0 costs money.
 
peterlobl said:
You are opposed to a one-time fee of $99? The value is the central store location, where millions of iPhone users will go... seems pretty trivial amount of $$$ for reaching such a vast audience.
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$99 + (30% x number of sales) which you again pay for "store upkeep". Does it still sound trivial and reasonable?
 
Just to clarify, this is how I understand it...

It cost NOTHING to become an iPhone developer and get the SDK.

If you create an app and want to post it to Apple, you must pay a one time fee of $99. (Or is this fee per app you post?)

If you create an app and want to post it to Apple to sell, you must pay the $99 AND Apple takes 30% of sales.

If you create an enterprise app (what defines an enterprise app anyway?) you must pay a larger fee (I didn't pay attention, but it was like $199 or $249) and Apple takes 30% of sales.

If you simply want to browse the Apps store and get software for your iPhone, it cost you NOTHING other than whatever the developer is charging for the App, if anything.

Please correct me if I got it wrong...I'm trying to get it straight myself.
 
parapup said:
Not 30% and Walmart does not claim whatever they charge is not for profit, just store upkeep. Think of the differences between selling a chair at Walmart and selling a piece of software. (No storage costs, no transportation costs - at least they are negligible and do not increase per copy of s/w sold.)
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Wow, so servers and development costs for the App store are free ?? Amazing....
 
.michael said:
Can somebody help me outt? I know the SDK thing was released today, but what about for iPod Touch users? Do we download the SDK from the iPhone Link? And I saw the thing were it said the demoed AOL IM. Can I get that NOW?

Please help.
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The SDK runs on a Mac. Not a phone or an iPod. Nothing is available for them until June.
 
parapup said:
... by these crappy bits -

a) Developer needs to pay $99 per Application to Apple to get it on the Apple store - WTF? If I am a free software developer why do I pay Apple to distribute my apps - Thanks, but no thanks, I can and will do it myself.

b) Apple takes 30% of the Application sales revenue and ostensibly calls it "for store upkeep" - wow, so if my App is worth 100$ and it sells 100 copies a day Apple will take out 3000$ per day to keep their store up and running. For what? Can't be bandwidth, can't be any other per download costs. So this just stinks of greed on Apple's part.

c) Even after paying Apple tax I have to put my App on iTunes store - no other choices. So this forces the Developers to use Macs to develop, and forces both Developer and User to use iTunes to distribute/consume.

So Apple is sucking the bucks from whatever they can without giving single sensible reason as to why and denying choices to the users and developers.

It just stinks of greed - nothing else can explain this seemingly cleverly designed "SDK business". Sorry Apple - you are no longer the company you were - Microsoft suddenly sounds lot better - they at least have good business sense of what will work and what will not.
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Under the microsoft model each additional feature would be in a higher operating system charging more money.

Take vista: Vista Home, Home Premium, business and ultimate.

Microsoft ads features to each model and asks you to pay for it. They are a business trying to make money. Apple is a business trying to make money as well only they are using a different model.

You don't "have" to develop for the iphone using the SDK. You also don't have to pay to get the SDK. They are charging to give access to an exclusive customer base and keeping out bad or malicious applications.
 
The URL I get from right clicking the download in Safari's download window doesn't have my ADC ID in it. But the email that Apple sent me with the link I had to click to get to the download page had my ADC ID in it I believe (a longer more complicated URL than the one of the actual file that is downloading). 1 hr, 12 minutes to go!
 
stokessd said:
Think of the amazingly cool stuff the iPhone hacking community has made with their cobbled together toolchain. Now they have the official SDK. So they were able to jailbreak and unlock easily for 4 software versions, and make cool stuff like triazzle (sp?) with effectively zero apple support and only their insight to guide them. I suspect the next 4 months in jailbreak land are going to be seriously productive give that they now have some official tools and documentation. If these folks can jailbreak, getting apps on a jailbroken phone from the SDK via a direct connection is trivial.

So no, if you are at all adventurous there will be a mountain of apps out before 4 months.

Sheldon
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This brings up an interesting point. I'm wondering how many devs in the jailbreak scene are now going to start developing with the official SDK?
 
mudbug99 said:
Hmm, not sure I just want to give money away to any company, no matter how great. Opinions seem to differ, even among respected economist types, whether this charge is really required. The practices of many other companies seem to suggest that even if it is required, its easy to get away with not charging if the company wants to. What pretty much everyone does seem to agree on though, is that if this is the reason for this charge, $0.99 would likely suffice - the rules for assessing the value are loose at best, if they even really exist, or if they even really apply. I don't mind paying for software updates, but I would like to know the company is being honest with me. So far, I'm not sure.........
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Even accounting rules sometimes do have to follow reality. What I mean is that the price associated with the benefit has to have some real world correlation. There is some leeway probably with the prices, so this may end up being another $20 update fee. $0.99 may not pass muster with the accountants who constantly worry about these things. You may ask, who cares what the accountants think? Well investors for one, SEC is another. They want transparent accounting based on standards and they are probably now less tolerant of broad interpretation of the rules than before (read Enron).
 
A few years ago, Fry's stocked some of our software: We had to pay an up front cost for the floor space and our margin ended up about 20%. Yep, if something sold for $50, we made $10. That's the reality of being a small software developer trying to get a foothold into the retail chain. For apple to only take 30% plus $99 per year is an absolutely amazing deal to me - that's all profit too so no distribution costs, no hosting costs, no credit card charges, no admin charges. Fantastic!
 
Is it worth to buy a Mac just to be able to develope for the iPhone? I'm thinking about buying a mac mini, because in my opinion there is not a more interesting platform to write applications on than the iPhone. :D
 
Moonlight said:
Wow, so servers and development costs for the App store are free ?? Amazing....
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Wow so Apple builds servers for each app copy that is sold and does custom development for each app and its copy sold - do you even understand what you are talking about?
 
3G iPhone

I am sure they will release the 3G iPhone in June with the 2.0 software update.
 
jmorrison0722 said:
Just to clarify, this is how I understand it...

1. It cost NOTHING to become an iPhone developer and get the SDK.

2. If you create an app and want to post it to Apple, you must pay a one time fee of $99. (Or is this fee per app you post?)

3. If you create an app and want to post it to Apple to sell, you must pay the $99 AND Apple takes 30% of sales.

4. If you create an enterprise app (what defines an enterprise app anyway?) you must pay a larger fee (I didn't pay attention, but it was like $199 or $249) and Apple takes 30% of sales.

5. If you simply want to browse the Apps store and get software for your iPhone, it cost you NOTHING other than whatever the developer is charging for the App, if anything.

Please correct me if I got it wrong...I'm trying to get it straight myself.
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Correction incoming! I've numbered your points above.

1. Correct.
2. It's $99/year, not one-time.
3. Correct.
4. I'm not sure.
5. Correct for iPhones, but you'll need to buy the software update if you have a Touch.
 
parapup said:
Not 30% and Walmart does not claim whatever they charge is not for profit, just store upkeep. Think of the differences between selling a chair at Walmart and selling a piece of software. (No storage costs, no transportation costs - at least they are negligible and do not increase per copy of s/w sold.)
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You make a very good point, Wal-Mart doesn't claim that. However, "Store Upkeep" is a generic term. Could include all sorts of things, such as hosting, bandwitch, R&D, Programming, Maintenance, Support, Marketing, etc. All of which you are not taxed with. To me, it's worth 30%.

I'll give you an example. I make and sell time clock software. I look for ways to drive traffic to my site, and do an okay job of it. However, do you know what drove more traffic to my site than anything, including posting on versiontracker, google, google adwords and MacWorld news combined? I wrote a free dashboard widget and posted it on Apple's site. It drives about 10X more traffic to me than anything else.
 
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