Apple Releases Leopard 9A557/9A559 Seed Update

[oldwatery]

No spit, Sherlock.

The iPhone was promised for June. When did it come out? The end of June.

Apple said that Leopard would come out in October. Last time I checked, there's 31 days in October. They didn't say October 1st, so please calm the heck down.

Isn't that what Sherlock just said.....quite calmly I think.

 

[reckless_0001]

Thanks a lot ... I went away from the keyboard for a minute with this thread open. I guess I never really noticed the picture ... anyhow, I had software update running ... I got back, and I tried clicking on this. I was getting really frustrated until I realized this was an image ...

Now, I feel like an idiot ... I am going to hide in a corner.

Those new shadows around windows really push things out at ya.

Big LOL

I can see how you'd make that mistake.

 

[loveturtle]

...No ZFS and no resolution independent UI means that the two most revolutionary features with the most implications for the future of the platform are gone...

What makes you think there's no ZFS? I hate to brake it to everyone but just because you can't click on it in disk utility doesn't mean it doesn't exist. There is a little more to it than that.

It's common knowledge that not only is ZFS included in 10.5 but after 9a466 when the kext was switched to read only it came with the message

"ZFS Readonly implemntation is loaded! To download the full ZFS read/write kext with all functionality enabled, please go to http://developer.apple.com/"

This is known, and has been known. One can only assume that after the release we will be able to download a fully functional module and rock out. I have been counting on it. I will be very disappointed if this is not the case.

The idea that ZFS was ever going to be the default FS was never likely (there are a small amount of popular applications that don't play nice with a case sensitive FS, among other issues). Not to mention the way ZFS takes snapshots is completely different from what Time Machine does and anyone who ever saw Time Machine and had a clue about ZFS should have known right away that Time Machine was NOT using ZFS. I don't know why people are so eager to spread misinformation about topics they don't understand (I'm talking about every retard who ever claimed time machine was obviously using ZFS).

 

[mdriftmeyer]

What makes you think there's no ZFS? I hate to brake it to everyone but just because you can't click on it in disk utility doesn't mean it doesn't exist. There is a little more to it than that.

It's common knowledge that not only is ZFS included in 10.5 but after 9a466 when the kext was switched to read only it came with the message

"ZFS Readonly implemntation is loaded! To download the full ZFS read/write kext with all functionality enabled, please go to http://developer.apple.com/"

This is known, and has been known. One can only assume that after the release we will be able to download a fully functional module and rock out. I have been counting on it. I will be very disappointed if this is not the case.

The idea that ZFS was ever going to be the default FS was never likely (there are a small amount of popular applications that don't play nice with a case sensitive FS, among other issues). Not to mention the way ZFS takes snapshots is completely different from what Time Machine does and anyone who ever saw Time Machine and had a clue about ZFS should have known right away that Time Machine was NOT using ZFS. I don't know why people are so eager to spread misinformation about topics they don't understand (I'm talking about every retard who ever claimed time machine was obviously using ZFS).

Save your breath. People whining didn't invest $500 or $3499 for Select/Premier memberships. If they did, these comments would be still be coming, just not from them.

 

[cptpower]

All prior versions of OSX ( at least >=10.2 ) have been so 10.5 should be no different

Well that's good news! Hopefully that holds true for 10.5.

 

[motulist]

Networking fixes and Software Update system fixes? Those sound like big issues to be working on for something close to a release candidate, don't you think? Considering a turn around time of 2 weeks to go from golden master to pressed, packaged and delivered product, that means Apple only has 2 weeks to have the OS totally completed.

Those sound like big issues to be working on with 2 weeks left on the clock.

 

[loveturtle]

And the snapshotting in time machine is good, but the capabilities of snapshotting in ZFS are phenomenal, and it's a lot better of an option than just a simple overlay with HFS+ like it currently is.

Right, However it seems to me that Apple wants snapshots stored on another disk. Time Machine requires a firewire disk or similar from what I understand.

ZFS can't do this, ZFS uses a cow method so that blocks are never overwritten and instead new blocks are written in their place and the snapshotting is simply done by not freeing the old blocks.

 

[3282872]

Yeah, you're right that the current displays aren't high enough resolution to make it a requirement to have resolution independence, but imagine kicking back away from your computer, turning up your UI, and having the stuff get bigger, without losing resolution (like now you'd have to use magnification). And already, i'd like to have everything a bit bigger than it is on my macbook. The iPhone really does a good job with using resolution independence in browser, i'd like to see that in a bigger form factor.

Wait, how are they not high enough resolution? My 23" Aluminum Cinema Display is High Def, with 1080P. How does that not qualify enough for resolution independence?

 

[motulist]

Wait, how are they not high enough resolution? My 23" Aluminum Cinema Display is High Def, with 1080P. How does that not qualify enough for resolution independence?

Well, when size increases with resolution then dpi stays constant. So twice the resolution on a screen twice the size means all on screen objects will be the same actual size on screen (in centimeters).

Anyone know the dpi on a 23" 1080p monitor?

EDIT: So the on screen buttons on your monitor would display at the same size (in centimeters) as an 11.5" screen running at a low resolution of (1080's resolution divided by 2, whatever that's be).

 

[offwidafairies]

Still no counter on Apple site. Think their gonna try and jump it on us?

I hope so. And a few more puter updates

 

[3282872]

Well, when size increases with resolution then dpi stays constant. So twice the resolution on a screen twice the size means all on screen objects will be the same actual size on screen in centimeters.

Anyone know the dpi on a 23" 1080p monitor?

Ok, my head hurts now lol (yeah, sucks being blond). Ok, I think I get it. I don't know the DPI on this baby, I'll check it out. Thanks!

 

[/dev/toaster]

9a567 GM seed 10/4.Timer on Apple.com 10/5.Released 10/19

If you add the number 10 to all of your values, that sounds a little closer to reality ... however, I hope you are right

 

[quovadis]

I see the GM around the corner - with my corner scope

 

[Muzzway]

Looking at the main forums page, I thought Apple had released Leopard.

 

[akac]

All of the great OS level changes that were supposed to come with Leopard are conspicuously absent. No ZFS and no resolution independent UI means that the two most revolutionary features with the most implications for the future of the platform are gone. I was seriously excited about Leopard, but every day that we get closer to gold master means that these will not be in there.

ZFS is the only great OS level change you can think of? OMG. Btw Res Independent UI is in Leopard. Its just frankly not finished, though I expect it will be by 10.5.x in 2008. Also Btw, there are huge major changes in Leopard under the hood in the OS. Most of the things you mentioned are not really OS pieces, they are apps.

 

[flopticalcube]

Anyone know the dpi on a 23" 1080p monitor?

About 96 dpi

 

[Peace]

The Reason Apple wants developers to be Resolution Independent by January 2008 is because new High Definition Displays will be introduced at MWSF'08 and will have a much higher DPI than the current displays.Which I think are either 72dpi or 110dpi.Not exactly sure.The new displays will probably be around 200-300dpi thus utilizing RI much better.


Just a wild guess , I know nothing speculation mind you.


[edit] 96dpi.thanks Flopiticalcube

[/edit]

 

[ipedro]

I wouldn't be surprised if they're far behind on Res. Independence and ZFS and have cut it out of 10.5 Leopard only to release 10.6 with a default ZFS and Res. Independence with new Cinema Displays @ MacWorld 08 in January.

I think we're at the end of OSX after this.

 

[motulist]

About 96 dpi

Okay, so since the old standard for displays was ~75 dpi, and this display is ~100 dpi, that means that on screen buttons will now be about 25% smaller than they used to be. I'd say that's enough for people to start having a legitimate need (in terms of efficiency) for resolution independence.

 

[3282872]

The Reason Apple wants developers to be Resolution Independent by January 2008 is because new High Definition Displays will be introduced at MWSF'08 and will have a much higher DPI than the current displays.Which I think are either 72dpi or 110dpi.Not exactly sure.The new displays will probably be around 200-300dpi thus utilizing RI much better.


Just a wild guess , I know nothing speculation mind you.


[edit] 96dpi.thanks Flopiticalcube

[/edit]

That's debatable. I have been waiting for a long time for new displays, as my one of my two 23" ACD's is over three years old. Apple has done very little in the display Pro line. My friend who works for Apple wrote this to me in response to asking about new displays:

"It's funny actually cuz I'm working on the next 'pro' version on the 30in HD monitor. The color reproduction is much better than the last version.. hence why the monitor will be ~$2500. However, it doesn't have IR or a camera. The picture is amazing, but rumor has it the project might be cancelled due to Apple's shift away from the 'pro' market. The next monitor project in the queue(30in mainstream monitor) will have most of those things. That probably won't be out for a year or so though. I will probably be writing the device firmware for it."

So who knows. I hope they do, I'd really hate to see Apple let go of their "Pro" line...

 

[Lepton]

Anyone seeing issues on things like syncing the address book with .mac?

 

[DeaconGraves]

I wouldn't be surprised if they're far behind on Res. Independence and ZFS and have cut it out of 10.5 Leopard only to release 10.6 with a default ZFS and Res. Independence with new Cinema Displays @ MacWorld 08 in January.

I think we're at the end of OSX after this.

Releasing a whole new version 3 months later? Crazy.

Geeze, if you think the iPhone whining has been bad....

 

[akac]

No they aren't. ZFS only showed up in earlier betas of the disk utility. Resolution independence as an SDK was exposed to developers in 10.4, but like ZFS, it disappeared in an earlier build of of the beta and hasn't come back.

Using ThinkSecret screenshots as your information source is not a great idea. RI is in Leopard. The OS is capable of it now. All GUI controls are RI. All Windows are RI. Its the APPs that are not. Things like Finder (yes Finder is still an app). In Tiger the OS supported RI scaling, but it didn't do anything with this. In Leopard the controls actually draw beautifully at different scales and so on.

Yeah, I know, but it was one of the two features that really would set OSX ahead of its time, as visionary. Other than that, it's just UI differences between OSX and windows, and a couple of apps that are integrated into the OS. Nothing groundbreaking.

Maybe its me, but I don't want a groundbreaking file system when its untested. ZFS is still untested. Its in Solaris and it JUST got put in. In fact it was only recently made bootable. They need another 2-3 years of testing at am minimum before it goes to millions of consumers.

And again, you show ignorance in your comment in that its just some UI differences and a couple apps. Leopard makes dramatically huge changes to the actual OS. Things *you* don't see, but app developers do. It is why several app developers have already said their new apps will be Leopard only.

 

[hotdamn]

Resolution Independence is overrated so far. Wait 1-2 years, esp for the web to catch up. You can't make the web resolution independent without using scalable vector graphics.

Also, the GUI does not seem finalized. It's a half aqua half iTunes 7 bastard child, and personally, I'd love to see Aqua go.

Also, seeing this post WWDC beta status bar, the only positive thing I can think about it is that the Apple icon is black now.

 

[shawnce]

Wait, how are they not high enough resolution? My 23" Aluminum Cinema Display is High Def, with 1080P. How does that not qualify enough for resolution independence?

It isn't about the size of the display but the density of pixels. It is about having say a 23" display with 50% more or greater number of pixels in the same physical area (144 DPI, 288 DPI, etc.).

Hardware with those capabilities wont come out until sometime in 2008 at earliest given costs of the components.