Apple Releases Leopard 9A557/9A559 Seed Update

[motulist]

I work for clients with customer demographics who have diverse enough equipment to necessitate that I still build [websites] in 800x600px. 800x600px would be about 3x1.8" on new hi res displays - not very functional.? Any thoughts?

There's a solution that some people use, but it's not gonna put a smile on your face. You can create different versions of your website that are optimized for different sized resolutions, then put in code to first check the monitor resolution the computer is running, and then have the server send the version of the site optimized for that particular resolution.

It's a kludge to be sure, but at the moment it's the only way to do it that I know about.

 

[GravityEyes]

Anyone seeing issues on things like syncing the address book with .mac?

A lot of new sync features (including notes- iPhone users!) however, they all seemed disabled - pending official release.

 

[Ben Logan]

I'm so glad they invented the Mac operating system and created ten versions of it over twenty years so they can release updates on it to distract customers from the trainwreck that they knew the iPhone would be twenty years ago.

They'd need Time Machine to calculate a move like this.

 

[elppa]

All of the great OS level changes that were supposed to come with Leopard are conspicuously absent. No ZFS and no resolution independent UI means that the two most revolutionary features with the most implications for the future of the platform are gone. I was seriously excited about Leopard, but every day that we get closer to gold master means that these will not be in there.

The other things, Spaces, even time warp can be done as applications sitting on top of the OS (well time warp would require some kind of version control like svn but still, it's not nearly as great as having a display of incredible resolution that won't require that my old man eyes have to be 1 inch away from the screen).

Unless the surprise feature is an iPhone SDK, a crippled Leopard won't save apple from the whole bad decision iceberg that is smashing into their titanic.

pass me a rope…

ZFS was "announced" by Sun, not Apple. True Apple were looking at implementing it. Although my technical knowledge is not perfect (I try to understand as much as I can) it would be advantageous to replace HFS+ with ZFS as the default filesystem.

I think full support may come in 10.6, with it being used as the default in 10.7.

I also think internally Apple is fully aware of the high expectations users have for each Mac OS X update. 10.6 may include more "user" features. A lot of the good stuff in 10.5 is for developers, but in turn this benefits users because they get better apps.

I'm so glad they invented the Mac operating system and created ten versions of it over twenty years so they can release updates on it to distract customers from the trainwreck that they knew the iPhone would be twenty years ago.

What happened to version 5?

Also 7, 7.5, 8 & 9 were like 10.3, 10.4, 10.5 etc.

That's debatable. I have been waiting for a long time for new displays, as my one of my two 23" ACD's is over three years old. Apple has done very little in the display Pro line. My friend who works for Apple wrote this to me in response to asking about new displays:

"It's funny actually cuz I'm working on the next 'pro' version on the 30in HD monitor. The color reproduction is much better than the last version.. hence why the monitor will be ~$2500. However, it doesn't have IR or a camera. The picture is amazing, but rumor has it the project might be cancelled due to Apple's shift away from the 'pro' market. The next monitor project in the queue(30in mainstream monitor) will have most of those things. That probably won't be out for a year or so though. I will probably be writing the device firmware for it."

So who knows. I hope they do, I'd really hate to see Apple let go of their "Pro" line...

Why would they if it is profitable? Video, photography, DTP etc.

Why would they make a "mainstream" monitor when all of their "mainstream" desktops bar the mini are all in ones.

Networking fixes and Software Update system fixes? Those sound like big issues to be working on with 2 weeks left on the clock.

Depends on the severity of the problem. They will be going around the clock, so I don't see it as a problem. You can do a lot in an hour or a day.

Great...so the decision for me is either buy Leopard or throw out the iMac and get a Vista machine running my main MSSQL database with .net.

Sorry Apple, but you really are annoying me with that decision. Putting Leopard on a machine that is running on Windows nearly 90% of the time I use it is just...hmmm...ridiculous.

Your reading the worst.

[1] Windows will still boot.
[2] What's to say Apple won't shove out the final (not beta) version of Bootcamp for Tiger once they ship Leopard.

 

[dopeasy]

Briefly, I dunno about ZFS, but RI is definately, most positively in leopard. Its in Tiger, also, but its much more implemented in leopard. You know how coverflow works in the finder....thats RI. Go look at some of the hi def images of icons that are included in the new os...they just pop out at you. The newest build is very much stable and faaaaaast, and perhaps when people use it they will realize that it is really light years ahead of tiger. The whole experience seems to fit exactly with the industrial feel of the aluminium shells of the imac's and macbook pro's, just like, you know, inside the computer, dude.

Now all I need to get over my OCD is for the notes and todo lists in the iphone to start making nice with the notes and todo lists that are for some reason in the mail client of leopard.

 

[3282872]

i think people are complaining about the iPhone diverting resources away from LEOPARD. and Apple actually said flat out that iPhone was the reason for Leopard's delay from June. sorry, maybe i'm misunderstanding.

That is exactly what people are saying, and what Jobs admitted was the main reason for the delay. Further, people have been stating (with good reason) that Leopard has hit some bumps because Jobs has kept a good portion of Leopards team still working on iPhone updates, specifically those updates that address hacking and unlocking the device.

 

[GravityEyes]

hmmmm, there is a HUGE misunderstanding or Res Independance. Ive tried it ... Its cool. And will be useful to some, not for most.

 

[!¡ V ¡!]

hmmmm, there is a HUGE misunderstanding or Res Independance. Ive tried it ... Its cool. And will be useful to some, not for most.

Similar to having the ability to have 8+GB on a MacPro.

People want a great deal of features, and rightfully so as you are paying quite a bit for a new version of the Operating System. However in the end majority of the users only use a portion of the included feature list.

It's about having it and not utilizing it, instead of not having it and not knowing what you might me missing out on.

 

[!¡ V ¡!]

That is exactly what people are saying, and what Jobs admitted was the main reason for the delay. Further, people have been stating (with good reason) that Leopard has hit some bumps because Jobs has kept a good portion of Leopards team still working on iPhone updates, specifically those updates that address hacking and unlocking the device.

is a multi-billion dollar a year corporation in business for over 20+ years. I am sure they can hire more programmers if required to get the job done. Taking away resources from one area to place temporary in another is common, however when the your companies core business is starting to lose your own interest you start to run into problems, such as missed product shipping dates.

 

[vertgo]

Am I wrong, or does Leopard's development have nothing to do with the iPhone. Am I wrong, or do most mac users not give a **** about the iPhone and would love to see you babies quit whining? Am I wrong, or is whatever problem 1% of the iPhone customers have not going to ruin Apple.

You are wrong. Apple has said this:
"iPhone contains the most sophisticated software ever shipped on a mobile device, and finishing it on time has not come without a price -- we had to borrow some key software engineering and QA resources from our Mac OS X team, and as a result we will not be able to release Leopard at our Worldwide Developers Conference in early June as planned."

And every mac user I know cares greatly about the iPhone. Let's take a look at this forum and see how many of us are mac users vs how many of us care about the iPhone.

 

[3282872]

Why would they if it is profitable? Video, photography, DTP etc.

Why would they make a "mainstream" monitor when all of their "mainstream" desktops bar the mini are all in ones.

Exactly. I was disappointed to read that, but I've gotten similar responses from Apple insiders. I hope it's just conjecture. Why would Apple leave out the displays from their product line? It makes no sense as they would certainly want to sell a display with their Mac Pro (or Mac Mini, but then again not many people would pay more for the display than the computer itself). However, Apple hasn't given a serious update to their display line in over three years (just slight changes), unlike the many revamps of the iMac, iPod, etc. It's baffling (and again, for those who say there is no market for ACD's - which a lot of people on here have stated - then why has Apple made them AND placed them in many movies and television sets for product placement? doesn't add up).

 

[3282872]

is a multi-billion dollar a year corporation in business for over 20+ years. I am sure they can hire more programmers if required to get the job done. Taking away resources from one area to place temporary in another is common, however when the your companies core business is starting to lose your own interest you start to run into problems, such as missed product shipping dates.

Exactly. As I can understand Jobs' desire in keeping Apple small (hence the company's hesitation in bringing in new and more people), it simply diverts needed manpower from core products, such as the case with Leopard and the iPhone. The reality Mr. Jobs needs to face, is when you expand your product line into new territories (such as the iPhone, TV, etc), you need to expand your companies resources by added departments that can concentrate fully on those products (and not just temporarily moving people around within the company). With growth comes growing pains, and it appears the orchards in Cupertino are starting to feel the weight of too many apples and not enough farmers.

 

[B. Hunter]

I came here expecting to read what people have to say about Leopard.
Instead a number of people have chosen this thread to whine about the iPhone.
I don't give a crap about your 3rd grade complaints.
Stick to the topic at hand please.

 

[izzle22]

I came here expecting to read what people have to say about Leopard.
Instead a number of people have chosen this thread to whine about the iPhone.
I don't give a crap about your 3rd grade complaints.
Stick to the topic at hand please.

WHAT???? Nobody's whining about the iPhone. Maybe you should read the posts.

 

[Dokter_Mac]

One of the only known issues with 9A559 was a risk of data corruption when installing on PowerPC machines. Thus the current build cannot be the GM because you can't fix a corrupted install with Software Update.

I think you are confusing this with the previous seed.
Build 9a527 had issues with data corruption on "some" PPC Macs (like iBook G4). This is solved in build 9a559.

The airportmenu is much nicer now. They installed a new 802.11 framework (version 5.0 I think). You can see locked/unlocked networks much better now.
I did not test VPN yet, before the update from tonight I had issues with that.
If that works I would be a very happy man .

My 2 cents about the GM: I think we are close
The boxes are ready, the documentation is ready, specs are known, translation to all languages is ready, Non Apple Pro Apps are running well (like CS3, Quark, etc.), games are running well (man, Halo 2.0.2 is fast), etc.
If not end october, maybe begin (first weeks) november it will ship!
It will be for SURE BEFORE the holiday season.

 

[phillipjfry]

Are you two related?

Related? Or the same person??

(sorry if someone already made the same comment, still reading page 1)

It's too obvious they are on RC and that GM will be announced this week.

 

[hotdamn]

I've been running the latest Leopard versions on both, my MacPro and the MBPro as I considered them stable enough for the first time. I am however still far less confident than most people here. There are quite a few issues to be solved before they can possibly release this into the wild. All I see is an announcement that Leopard will be delayed until the end of 2007. They may be close, but in my books they aren't there yet.

Too many gadgets these days. Leopard turned from something exceptional to just your average OS upgrade. Mainly because of too much hype to start with and no follow ups. Apple would have to be extremely confident to release any new smoking gun like features with Leopard now and if this is all we get, then we have very little to work with over the next few years. There are just simply no outstanding features apart from true 64bit support. There is nothing ground breaking included. No new technologies, no nothing. The OS may look good but that's hardly enough.

Yep, I hear the Apple fanboys but they do no good to start with as their mind is clouded and they are unable to come up with something a bit more substantial than constant ranting. All I want is something exceptionally good coming out of Apple and the current Version of Leopard is not going to be enough.

Well, you Sir are either a thief or a liar.

First of all, are you even a developer?
Are you using the same Leopard that I am using that is about 2 times as fast as Tiger?

I don't even know where to begin.
No new technologies? Core Animation? Improvements in multi-core/threading?

I will say this: It is awesome if a new OS brings new features/apps, but mainly it exists to provide a technology framework for existing or coming applications that makes it easier and more likely for apps to become nicer, faster, stabler, less memory hungry etc.
Thus, Leopard brings the most changes under the hood any of the OS X releases have ever had.

However, what an OS should bring, is a fresh new look, and frankly, Leopard looks, and I apologize in advance for this analogy, kind of like a roadkill kitty right now.

 

[Insane4Apple]

More release date thoughts

this week they would have the feedback from their Leopard 9A557/9A559 Seed Update then next week they would release final candidate and be finished and do the duplicating process while announcing it for the tuesday after..so the 16th. or they might announce it tomorrow with that whole plan to give a 2 weeks prior notice. or they're going to be mean and release it the 30th to make it gold and perfect.... very very at Apple right now for being quiet.

 

[seanneko]

So, do these "wireless network fixes" fix the 10.4.10 Airport issues?

 

[stefanski]

Well, you Sir are either a thief or a liar.

First of all, are you even a developer?
Are you using the same Leopard that I am using that is about 2 times as fast as Tiger?

I don't even know where to begin.
No new technologies? Core Animation? Improvements in multi-core/threading?

I will say this: It is awesome if a new OS brings new features/apps, but mainly it exists to provide a technology framework for existing or coming applications that makes it easier and more likely for apps to become nicer, faster, stabler, less memory hungry etc.
Thus, Leopard brings the most changes under the hood any of the OS X releases have ever had.

However, what an OS should bring, is a fresh new look, and frankly, Leopard looks, and I apologize in advance for this analogy, kind of like a roadkill kitty right now.

Thanks so much for your kind words. You must be the chief engineer of the Leopard project for sure. I for one found it rather pointless to quote the features available on the apple website. Apart from that, improvement in multicore/threading is hardly mind blowing. Given the poor results of a MacPro 8 core, I'd say it was about time they did implement it properly. Not exactly my fault that Steve has promised the world back in January with all these hidden features of which we never saw anything except for a new finder.

Nobody is disputing that there is improvement under the hood. There'd better be... Why else would you release a new OS????

I said it's not ready in my books and you're calling me a thief or a liar only to go on ranting about well known features. I'm testing this release on different platforms and the problems are there for anybody to see who actually does give a damn about testing. You obviously rather look at shiny websites and quote features of it instead of trying to find out as many faults as you possibly can before the release. Leopard may well be faster than Tiger. So what? It may look good, too. So what? It has to do the job out there to get the tick of approval. You're happy with it, I'm not. Maybe you should start testing it instead of just staring at its pretty looking interface?

A cup of calming tea would probably help you, too? It's just incredible to see how blind some people are willing to be for the sake of glorifying a Beta release.

 

[MacinDoc]

So, do these "wireless network fixes" fix the 10.4.10 Airport issues?

Considering that 10.5 didn't evolve out of 10.4.10, the two are likely unrelated (10.4 and 10.5 had separate development tracks before work even started on 10.4.10).

 

[jonhaxor]

I came here expecting to read what people have to say about Leopard.
Instead a number of people have chosen this thread to whine about the iPhone.
I don't give a crap about your 3rd grade complaints.
Stick to the topic at hand please.

right on! grow up and learn how to stick to a subject - that's what us 4th graders know .. (we also know about bold and italics)

 

[B. Hunter]

right on! grow up and learn how to stick to a subject - that's what us 4th graders know .. (we also know about bold and italics)

How about bold italics.


Come on folks.
No need to bring up the development team being moved over to iPhone development, rather than focus on Leopard. That has been talked about umpteen times here already in the past.
I did not say everyone was doing that here.

 

[arkmannj]

good

I think you are confusing this with the previous seed.
Build 9a527 had issues with data corruption on "some" PPC Macs (like iBook G4). This is solved in build 9a559.

The airportmenu is much nicer now. They installed a new 802.11 framework (version 5.0 I think). You can see locked/unlocked networks much better now.
I did not test VPN yet, before the update from tonight I had issues with that.
If that works I would be a very happy man .

My 2 cents about the GM: I think we are close
The boxes are ready, the documentation is ready, specs are known, translation to all languages is ready, Non Apple Pro Apps are running well (like CS3, Quark, etc.), games are running well (man, Halo 2.0.2 is fast), etc.
If not end october, maybe begin (first weeks) november it will ship!
It will be for SURE BEFORE the holiday season.

I was going to ask if issues with CS3 ad gotten worked out, thanks for answering that for me

I've read several people claiming to have legal access testing 10.5, some saying it's ready to go out the door, some saying it's still got some bugs.

Some people saying let it be released and bugs can be dealt with via updates.

here's my opinion. If Leopard is all ready then by all means release it, but if it still has bug, take the time to flush them out. I know they will never catch all of the bugs, and we could well see 10.5.999. But when I have an original install disk in my hands I want to know that it is stable,workable and contains all the features (both user visible, and under the hood) even without needing to think about updates. I want Leopard right now as much as anyone else, there are some features in there that I am really looking forward to and will help me tons. but if it's to buggy to replace 10.4.10 then either they need to wait to ship it, or many of us need to wait to install it.

Sorry for the rant, long-story-short : I'd rather have fresh install disks that I can rely on released in early/mid November then a buggy "but-we'll-fix-it-in-an-update" version. But, if Leopard is ready to roll then bring on the goodness, so we can all go out, party and drink our sparkling_apple_cider.

 

[TigerPRO]

All of the great OS level changes that were supposed to come with Leopard are conspicuously absent. No ZFS and no resolution independent UI means that the two most revolutionary features with the most implications for the future of the platform are gone. I was seriously excited about Leopard, but every day that we get closer to gold master means that these will not be in there.

Please note that Leopard does have resolution independence:

http://developer.apple.com/leopard/overview/

The info is about halfway down the page.