Apple Releases Lion Developer Preview 3 and Xcode 4.1 Preview 5

[elppa]

Been a mac user for 20 years. Personally I think windows 7 is way better then mac os x on many levels. What you outlined above means nothing to how productive a person can be while using windows 7.

So what there's circa 95 icons still circulating? your point is moot.

In regards to legacy. Do you think 90% of the people that use a computer even know what that is? Do you think I care that legacy is still a part of the O.S when I am working on a project or using the computer to do daily things? Get serious dude.

Legacy never affected my capability to get **** i want to do done.

I am deadly serious. I don't believe my “point is moot” because my point was most certainly not about the circa 95 icons.

“Legacy” in terms of UI decisions is bad, because we have learnt a lot about UI and HCI since 1995 (or whenever these screens where first conceived) and are still learning a lot.

There is only a 20-30 year history of building graphical user interfaces and the length of time that GUIs have been made specifically for the general public (not business) is probably shorter than that.

Quite frankly there are often better ways to do things the way they have always been done. And by better I mean quicker, simpler, more productive, not “prettier”. Although form often follows function.

Which is why the newer control panels in Windows 7 are radically different to the examples above (look at the aero appearance settings for example):

Now let's look at that screen where you erroneously thought I was complaining about resolution and aesthetic of the icons.

I will confess I am far from a usability expert, someone who is will know more than me:

[1] Why is it fixed width? The file path to the icon file cannot fit. And obviously the icons cannot fit either. Surely at least give the option to make it larger to fit more on screen?

[2] Why does the icon panel scroll horizontally (left -> right) and not vertically (top -> bottom). This is inconsistent with many other dialogs.

[2] How are the icons organised. If they were grouped by category (hardware, media) it may help the user find one quicker.

[3] If you pick icons from multiple files there is not easy way to switch between them. Maybe a list of recently used icon files would help.

So YOU can be productive because you've got used to all the quirks, so what? It doesn't mean other people won't struggle when presented with bad UI.

 

[baryon]

Being a recent switcher, I agree. Simple things that I assumed were in OS X simply aren't. I really feel like the menu bar always taking up pixels is a total waste of space. Auto hide, anyone? I really like Chrome/FF4 in W7 with the hidden menubars that are nicely integrated into one button for a clean interface and saved screen pixels. I feel like it's time they create a feature to turn off the menubar altogether. Integrate the menubar into the dock with a feature similar to tray icons.

I just feel like it's silly to always be looking at "File" "Edit" "View" etc. when you could just mouse over, or click an icon that brings these options out.

Actually, if you think about it, the Windows menu bar takes up more space, since every single window has its own menu bar, whereas in OS X you only have one menu bar. If you have 10 windows open in Windows, you have 10 menu bars (except applications like Chrome that don't have one).

I find it annoying in Chrome for Windows when you have to click an icon and then click through sub menus every time. I use the menu all the time, to clear cache, to change preferences, to change the view settings and other stuff. I would not want the menu bar to go away. Plus for apps like Photoshop, and more complex apps, you simply MUST have it always visible as it is vital.

The only thing that I find annoying in OS X is that you sometimes have an inactive window and the desktop is active, and you get the Finder's menu bar. I don't always notice this the first time and it gets annoying when I look for something that isn't there.

EDIT: One thing that makes me hate Windows: No smooth scrolling. I'm scrolling a web page notch by notch and my eyes simply can't follow where the hell I was reading. This alone makes coming back to Windows painful to me. It's a small thing that would be easy to fix and it would make the experience 10 times better instantly. Many people on Windows still scroll by moving their pointer to the scroll bar, clicking, dragging, and moving the pointer back to the content, then repeating every 5 seconds. OS X has innovated so much on such a simple thing as scrolling, why does Microsoft ignore this?

 

[magicbbird]

Exactly what I have noticed, on my mid-2009 MBP I can see a very noticeable performance boost.

Seems to me that Lion is getting quite close to a GM now. Just a bit more polish and I think it's about done.

I got a strange bug with Safari:
When I finish a page in this very thread in this forum and go to next page, say page 6, it loads but then hangs. It won't scroll or responsive to keyboard until I click another tab and come back to the original one. Wonder if you guys find the same?

 

[amoda]

Is this version stable and quick enough to test it on the one machine I have that can run it? As it's my "productive" machine I don't want to risk it too much, but I can deal with minor problems.

 

[MikhailT]

I'm sorry, but what exactly are you missing by not having TRIM?

The performance gains on a standard system are minimal at best.

TRIM has never been about performance gains. It's about maintaining the same speed as a fresh SSD after a certain amount of time. Think of it as a hardware defragmentation. It's a protocol between the OS and the SSD on how to delete/reset NANDs that are no longer used by the OS.

Right now, many of the high end SSDs have good IGC code in its firmware that TRIM is not a top priority but it is still important for all SSDs and OS to support the TRIM standard. The sooner we have a universal TRIM support, the more simpler the firmwares can be by having less complicated IGC or having no IGC at all.

 

[trekkie604]

If you want your shiny login screen, here it is
Image

This is the login screen when you lock your screen. It plays whatever screen saver you have currently selected as your default.

Looks ok aside from the round user icon and the Justin bieber purple

 

[Wayfarer]

Any screenshoots of the new boot animation?

(not the new login screen)​

 

[2Turbo]

Actually, if you think about it, the Windows menu bar takes up more space, since every single window has its own menu bar, whereas in OS X you only have one menu bar. If you have 10 windows open in Windows, you have 10 menu bars (except applications like Chrome that don't have one).

isn't it the same to have a menubar inline on each software as to switching it at the top of the screen? I don't see any difference except a bonus for apps like FF4 that don't need the menubar at all times.

I find it annoying in Chrome for Windows when you have to click an icon and then click through sub menus every time. I use the menu all the time, to clear cache, to change preferences, to change the view settings and other stuff. I would not want the menu bar to go away. Plus for apps like Photoshop, and more complex apps, you simply MUST have it always visible as it is vital.

So you'd rather lose pixel space for web viewing and look at ugly text across the top of your screen than to simply click once to get to those menus? I'm not buying that you clear your cache every minute or change your preferences that often. Apps like PS show the menubar at all times in windows too.

The only thing that I find annoying in OS X is that you sometimes have an inactive window and the desktop is active, and you get the Finder's menu bar. I don't always notice this the first time and it gets annoying when I look for something that isn't there.

I noticed this as soon as I switched from windows. A little annoying but very minor IMO.

EDIT: One thing that makes me hate Windows: No smooth scrolling. I'm scrolling a web page notch by notch and my eyes simply can't follow where the hell I was reading. This alone makes coming back to Windows painful to me. It's a small thing that would be easy to fix and it would make the experience 10 times better instantly. Many people on Windows still scroll by moving their pointer to the scroll bar, clicking, dragging, and moving the pointer back to the content, then repeating every 5 seconds. OS X has innovated so much on such a simple thing as scrolling, why does Microsoft ignore this?

Agreed. I love scrolling and multitouch.

I figure most things I need will either be added in Lion or available from third-parties such as the window snapping. The biggest thing I don't like about OS X currently is the appearance. The gray stuff looks old and the menubar wastes space in programs that you simply don't need to constantly have the menu fully visible.

 

[2Turbo]

Actually, if you think about it, the Windows menu bar takes up more space, since every single window has its own menu bar, whereas in OS X you only have one menu bar. If you have 10 windows open in Windows, you have 10 menu bars (except applications like Chrome that don't have one).

I find it annoying in Chrome for Windows when you have to click an icon and then click through sub menus every time. I use the menu all the time, to clear cache, to change preferences, to change the view settings and other stuff. I would not want the menu bar to go away. Plus for apps like Photoshop, and more complex apps, you simply MUST have it always visible as it is vital.

The only thing that I find annoying in OS X is that you sometimes have an inactive window and the desktop is active, and you get the Finder's menu bar. I don't always notice this the first time and it gets annoying when I look for something that isn't there.

EDIT: One thing that makes me hate Windows: No smooth scrolling. I'm scrolling a web page notch by notch and my eyes simply can't follow where the hell I was reading. This alone makes coming back to Windows painful to me. It's a small thing that would be easy to fix and it would make the experience 10 times better instantly. Many people on Windows still scroll by moving their pointer to the scroll bar, clicking, dragging, and moving the pointer back to the content, then repeating every 5 seconds. OS X has innovated so much on such a simple thing as scrolling, why does Microsoft ignore this?

TRIM has never been about performance gains. It's about maintaining the same speed as a fresh SSD after a certain amount of time. Think of it as a hardware defragmentation. It's a protocol between the OS and the SSD on how to delete/reset NANDs that are no longer used by the OS.

Right now, many of the high end SSDs have good IGC code in its firmware that TRIM is not a top priority but it is still important for all SSDs and OS to support the TRIM standard. The sooner we have a universal TRIM support, the more simpler the firmwares can be by having less complicated IGC or having no IGC at all.

Exactly. It's not that the average user 'needs' x number in performance gain, it's just a very nice feature and there is no reason to not include it.

 

[trekkie604]

I am deadly serious. I don't believe my “point is moot” because my point was most certainly not about the circa 95 icons.

“Legacy” in terms of UI decisions is bad, because we have learnt a lot about UI and HCI since 1995 (or whenever these screens where first conceived) and are still learning a lot.

There is only a 20-30 year history of building graphical user interfaces and the length of time that GUIs have been made specifically for the general public (not business) is probably shorter than that.

Quite frankly there are often better ways to do things the way they have always been done. And by better I mean quicker, simpler, more productive, not “prettier”. Although form often follows function.

Which is why the newer control panels in Windows 7 are radically different to the examples above (look at the aero appearance settings for example):
Image


Now let's look at that screen where you erroneously thought I was complaining about resolution and aesthetic of the icons.

I will confess I am far from a usability expert, someone who is will know more than me:
Image
[1] Why is it fixed width? The file path to the icon file cannot fit. And obviously the icons cannot fit either. Surely at least give the option to make it larger to fit more on screen?

[2] Why does the icon panel scroll horizontally (left -> right) and not vertically (top -> bottom). This is inconsistent with many other dialogs.

[2] How are the icons organised. If they were grouped by category (hardware, media) it may help the user find one quicker.

[3] If you pick icons from multiple files there is not easy way to switch between them. Maybe a list of recently used icon files would help.

So YOU can be productive because you've got used to all the quirks, so what? It doesn't mean other people won't struggle when presented with bad UI.

They maintain those dialogs for compatibility with legacy applications. You can rip the program manager exe from windows 3.0 and it will run, all the old Apis and hooks are maintained. That's why it's so difficult for Microsoft to remove the older dialogs.

 

[hlfway2anywhere]

Is this version stable and quick enough to test it on the one machine I have that can run it? As it's my "productive" machine I don't want to risk it too much, but I can deal with minor problems.

I tried doing that with the first developer preview and it wasn't even too bad, but it wasn't compatible with my audio recording interface drivers, so just be aware that third party stuff might not work well, or at all. You can always partition and install it alongside your current system.

 

[shawnce]

I'm aware of the shortcuts, but I still think it's stupid you can't right click and cut, then paste. The average user could benefit.

Umm you can right-click (or control-click) for a contextual menu that allows cut and paste among several other contextual based things.

 

[2Turbo]

Umm you can right-click (or control-click) for a contextual menu that allows cut and paste among several other contextual based things.

View attachment 285315

I'm talking about in finder.

 

[ailefroide]

Can anyone else confirm that you can't download a java runtime through the java preferences utility anymore? I just updated to DP3 and now everything that uses Java is broken. The utility attempts to download a runtime but tells me that its not available right now. Anyone else having this issue?

Hi,
Have exactly the same problem here... It seems that the Java preferences application has not been updated from the last build (DP2)... which may be cause the problem. Very very annoying for me btw...
Anyone in this forum for a miracle and get Java working on DP3 ?

 

[Žalgiris]

I'm talking about in finder.

http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/moveaddict/id404213171?mt=12

 

[Yamcha]

I love the updates, it's definitely reaching golden master, some games started working now, new features with safari, love the login screen...

Also nice to see you can remove applications from launchpad, although it's still buggy..

 

[Yamcha]

Hi,
Have exactly the same problem here... It seems that the Java preferences application has not been updated from the last build (DP2)... which may be cause the problem. Very very annoying for me btw...
Anyone in this forum for a miracle and get Java working on DP3 ?

Yeah I'm experiencing same problem with Java..

 

[iBug2]

TRIM has never been about performance gains. It's about maintaining the same speed as a fresh SSD after a certain amount of time. Think of it as a hardware defragmentation. It's a protocol between the OS and the SSD on how to delete/reset NANDs that are no longer used by the OS.

Right now, many of the high end SSDs have good IGC code in its firmware that TRIM is not a top priority but it is still important for all SSDs and OS to support the TRIM standard. The sooner we have a universal TRIM support, the more simpler the firmwares can be by having less complicated IGC or having no IGC at all.

I don't think that's gonna happen at all. Even if we get TRIM support, cutting edge SSD's will always have IGC's which do take care of TRIM on their own, so I don't see TRIM as a priority at the moment at all.

 

[iBug2]

Overall this build finally seems stable enough for every day use. I've had Lion on my MBP since the first preview and now I'm thinking of starting to use it as my regular OS, but there are still some apps that don't work, which are crucial to my workflow. So maybe couple builds later it'll replace SL for me, certainly before the GM.

 

[Yamcha]

Wow, just checked out Time Machine, it is visual PRON!

 

[3282868]

Login Screen

Seems the DefaultDesktop.jpg image is no longer used in the latest builds login window. Anyone dig around yet to find a work around from the boring grey? Tried but think Apple went with a nib or some such using a default color and no image

Also, anyone else's suffering constantly asking to reload? Gonna reset my plists. Otherwise, some interesting UI tweaks. Still want TRIM so Sandforce SSD's can work with OS X's file system, and work on OpenGL. Plus, Spaces = crippled. 2D versus Grid is not helpful, maybe for an iDevice, but not when needing to swipe through space after space or using "Mission Control." Filing it with Apple as a lot seem on that boat.

 

[-Ryan-]

Wow, just checked out Time Machine, it is visual PRON!

Image

Has the background still got the trippy moving effect?

 

[Yamcha]

Has the background still got the trippy moving effect?

yup :]

 

[inna]

PLEASE HELP! Xcode 3.2.6 help Interface Builder won't open!

Hi everybody!
I was hoping you could help with this problem.
When I click on "Main Window" the interface builder does not pop up, but I know it should. How do I get the Interface builder to show?
Thank you very much.

 

[0John0]

This is not the right place to be discussing problems with prerelease software (Xcode 4.1). Take your problem to the dev forums...they can help you.